Observations from Saints' victory vs Chargers

BakoSaint · 08-22-2023, 02:49 PM

I think Winston is what he is. He has a great deep ball that gives his receivers a lot of chances at big plays. He is going to look better with the 1's at WR who can make those contested catches and worse with the 2's who can't, so thats why he looked better in week 1 of preseason. He can be decently effective with the Mike Evans, Michael Thomas, and Chris Olave types. It took Sean Payton's genius to make him look good with crappy receivers in 2021. Our current staff lacks that genius and needs a QB who is more adaptable and less prone to throwing jump balls. But we would win some games with Winston throwing jump balls to our 1's, just not enough games.

I wish we would trade Winston but it would basically amount to a cut. It would cause a big dead cap hit. The way we restructure contracts his base salary is only $1 million so thats all we would save, and all the prorated money would hit hard. It would be the right thing to do, especially if we could get a pick out of it, and good for Winston and Haener too, but its not how we operate under this front office. It is much more likely that we will extend Winston to 2024 to further delay his cap hit than that we will move on this year, even if he is our #3 option.

Rugby Saint II · 08-22-2023, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

I think Winston is what he is. He has a great deep ball that gives his receivers a lot of chances at big plays. He is going to look better with the 1's at WR who can make those contested catches and worse with the 2's who can't, so thats why he looked better in week 1 of preseason. He can be decently effective with the Mike Evans, Michael Thomas, and Chris Olave types. It took Sean Payton's genius to make him look good with crappy receivers in 2021. Our current staff lacks that genius and needs a QB who is more adaptable and less prone to throwing jump balls. But we would win some games with Winston throwing jump balls to our 1's, just not enough games.

I wish we would trade Winston but it would basically amount to a cut. It would cause a big dead cap hit. The way we restructure contracts his base salary is only $1 million so thats all we would save, and all the prorated money would hit hard. It would be the right thing to do, especially if we could get a pick out of it, and good for Winston and Haener too, but its not how we operate under this front office. It is much more likely that we will extend Winston to 2024 to further delay his cap hit than that we will move on this year, even if he is our #3 option.

Good Lord Man! I sure hope not!

I hope someone wants to take his contract over and we can make a trade. It's where I see his value now that I've see Haener run the same system more efficiently and the team obviously rallies around him. There are two reasons I want to see Haener play the whole game. One: we will have game film to study his flaws and have a better evaluation of his game. Two: there will be less film for the opposition to study Winston's tendencies and drop his trade value if he doesn't play well.

BakoSaint · 08-22-2023, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

Good Lord Man! I sure hope not!

I hope someone wants to take his contract over and we can make a trade. It's where I see his value now that I've see Haener run the same system more efficiently and the team obviously rallies around him. There are two reasons I want to see Haener play the whole game. One: we will have game film to study his flaws and have a better evaluation of his game. Two: there will be less film for the opposition to study Winston's tendencies and drop his trade value if he doesn't play well.

My understanding is that teams cannot take on pro-rated money from bonuses that have already been paid. That money becomes a dead cap hit if the player is cut or traded and hits either in the current or following year. Winston has no future unpaid bonuses that I know of, only 2023 base salary and paid prorated bonuses. His 2023 base salary is $1.165 million. His prorated bonuses from contract and restructures are $14.035 million. This is the cost of Mickynomics. If we trade Jameis Winston the other team cannot take on more than $1.165 million and we will still pay at least $14.035 million. However, it would be better for our future to take that $14.035 million hit not and avoid incurring future liabilities with inevitable extensions and restructures, even though we are $63 million over the cap for 2024 and will need to find creative ways to cut cap costs including restructuring and extending players like Winston, Peat, Thomas, Hill, and Kamara.

AsylumGuido · 08-22-2023, 03:42 PM

Boston Saint · 08-22-2023, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Just go out to Twitter (or X now). They are definitely out there. These are just a few. There are tons more.

https://twitter.com/jameis1of1/statu...77304166064128

https://twitter.com/marcusn01/status...21472776126847

https://twitter.com/Jurky88/status/1693978546748744140

https://twitter.com/2PickNeedham/sta...25505273360805

None of these are Saints Fans

AsylumGuido · 08-22-2023, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

None of these are Saints Fans

Yes they are, and there's plenty more out there. I would say the vast majority of Saints fans know Carr gives us the best shot, but there are absolutely a small handful of fans out there which have never hopped off the Jameis bandwagon.

But I do agree, most of them are not Saints fans.

08-22-2023, 02:49 PM	#51
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,135	Re: Observations from Saints' victory vs Chargers I think Winston is what he is. He has a great deep ball that gives his receivers a lot of chances at big plays. He is going to look better with the 1's at WR who can make those contested catches and worse with the 2's who can't, so thats why he looked better in week 1 of preseason. He can be decently effective with the Mike Evans, Michael Thomas, and Chris Olave types. It took Sean Payton's genius to make him look good with crappy receivers in 2021. Our current staff lacks that genius and needs a QB who is more adaptable and less prone to throwing jump balls. But we would win some games with Winston throwing jump balls to our 1's, just not enough games. I wish we would trade Winston but it would basically amount to a cut. It would cause a big dead cap hit. The way we restructure contracts his base salary is only $1 million so thats all we would save, and all the prorated money would hit hard. It would be the right thing to do, especially if we could get a pick out of it, and good for Winston and Haener too, but its not how we operate under this front office. It is much more likely that we will extend Winston to 2024 to further delay his cap hit than that we will move on this year, even if he is our #3 option. SmashMouth likes this.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,135

08-22-2023, 03:14 PM	#52
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,052	Re: Observations from Saints' victory vs Chargers Originally Posted by BakoSaint I think Winston is what he is. He has a great deep ball that gives his receivers a lot of chances at big plays. He is going to look better with the 1's at WR who can make those contested catches and worse with the 2's who can't, so thats why he looked better in week 1 of preseason. He can be decently effective with the Mike Evans, Michael Thomas, and Chris Olave types. It took Sean Payton's genius to make him look good with crappy receivers in 2021. Our current staff lacks that genius and needs a QB who is more adaptable and less prone to throwing jump balls. But we would win some games with Winston throwing jump balls to our 1's, just not enough games. I wish we would trade Winston but it would basically amount to a cut. It would cause a big dead cap hit. The way we restructure contracts his base salary is only $1 million so thats all we would save, and all the prorated money would hit hard. It would be the right thing to do, especially if we could get a pick out of it, and good for Winston and Haener too, but its not how we operate under this front office. It is much more likely that we will extend Winston to 2024 to further delay his cap hit than that we will move on this year, even if he is our #3 option. Good Lord Man! I sure hope not! I hope someone wants to take his contract over and we can make a trade. It's where I see his value now that I've see Haener run the same system more efficiently and the team obviously rallies around him. There are two reasons I want to see Haener play the whole game. One: we will have game film to study his flaws and have a better evaluation of his game. Two: there will be less film for the opposition to study Winston's tendencies and drop his trade value if he doesn't play well.
	There Are Two Kinds Of People In This World Being A Rugby Player Is Better Than Both Of Them

08-22-2023, 03:20 PM	#53
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,135	Re: Observations from Saints' victory vs Chargers Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II Good Lord Man! I sure hope not! I hope someone wants to take his contract over and we can make a trade. It's where I see his value now that I've see Haener run the same system more efficiently and the team obviously rallies around him. There are two reasons I want to see Haener play the whole game. One: we will have game film to study his flaws and have a better evaluation of his game. Two: there will be less film for the opposition to study Winston's tendencies and drop his trade value if he doesn't play well. My understanding is that teams cannot take on pro-rated money from bonuses that have already been paid. That money becomes a dead cap hit if the player is cut or traded and hits either in the current or following year. Winston has no future unpaid bonuses that I know of, only 2023 base salary and paid prorated bonuses. His 2023 base salary is $1.165 million. His prorated bonuses from contract and restructures are $14.035 million. This is the cost of Mickynomics. If we trade Jameis Winston the other team cannot take on more than $1.165 million and we will still pay at least $14.035 million. However, it would be better for our future to take that $14.035 million hit not and avoid incurring future liabilities with inevitable extensions and restructures, even though we are $63 million over the cap for 2024 and will need to find creative ways to cut cap costs including restructuring and extending players like Winston, Peat, Thomas, Hill, and Kamara.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,135

08-22-2023, 03:42 PM	#54
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,214	Re: Observations from Saints' victory vs Chargers Twitter

08-22-2023, 04:05 PM	#55
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Observations from Saints' victory vs Chargers Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Just go out to Twitter (or X now). They are definitely out there. These are just a few. There are tons more. https://twitter.com/jameis1of1/statu...77304166064128 https://twitter.com/marcusn01/status...21472776126847 https://twitter.com/Jurky88/status/1693978546748744140 https://twitter.com/2PickNeedham/sta...25505273360805 None of these are Saints Fans

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08-22-2023, 04:16 PM	#56
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,214	Re: Observations from Saints' victory vs Chargers Originally Posted by Boston Saint None of these are Saints Fans Yes they are, and there's plenty more out there. I would say the vast majority of Saints fans know Carr gives us the best shot, but there are absolutely a small handful of fans out there which have never hopped off the Jameis bandwagon. Twitter But I do agree, most of them are not Saints fans.