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saintsfan1976 09-25-2023 07:31 AM
Re: Observations from the Saints Loss to Packers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rezburna (Post 981043)
I observe through social media commentary that most people watch football but don’t know football. I wouldn’t even dwell on this week. Hopefully Carr isn’t out for any length of time. We get Kamara back next week. I’d be searching for trades on the offensive line. We’re stuck with Carmichael and his piss poor plays. Keep moving forward.
The O line is performing too poorly not to dwell on. There are major and RECURRING issues...

saintsfan1976 09-25-2023 07:38 AM
Re: Observations from the Saints Loss to Packers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOak (Post 981045)
3 in the first half, 15 points in the second. They figured something out or our defense didn’t adjust.

O-Line let the QB get hurt but didn’t do anything to help them put up 15 in the second half.

HC is a liability from what I heard about 2minute play calling.

With the exception of big plays just not a very good all round it seems.

This is what Dennis Allen was going into this game 16–38 (.296).
Charmichael chokes in the red zone and abandons the run.

Carr misses MT open in the end zone.

O line fails to protect on critical third downs.

DA's defense gets schooled down the stretch.

This is the Tampa Bay loss from last year all over again...

MatthewT 09-25-2023 08:08 AM
Re: Observations from the Saints Loss to Packers
 
We may have gotten the 2022 version of Carr, he has struggled the entire year so far. But with that said, seems to have a big edge over Winston when it comes to game management. Had he not gotten hurt, I would have to think Carr at least is able to eat a little more time off the clock to prevent the Packers from coming back in the end.

Shame on Grupe for missing an easy 46 yard field goal to give the Saints another chance. As bad as Winston looked, to his credit he did at least get the team in position to take a late lead.

The front line was so bad that Peat may have gotten his job back. At least for a short while when he came into the game things seemed to settle down. It's hard to say why this group is struggling so bad, even Ram isn't playing up to his usual level.

Play calling is very suspect, Miller and Jones wasn't exactly lighting it up, but was getting steady yards. And with a front line struggling so bad, where is the screen passing game? OK, so Kamara isn't playing, maybe some WR screens or something?

As for a temporary replacement QB to fill out the roster, I would go Josh Johnson. I know that sounds crazy, but he may be the only guy available who can at least run out of the pocket to avoid some of the pass rush. Maybe Taysom Hill needs to start over Winston for the same reason?

K Major 09-25-2023 08:30 AM
Re: Observations from the Saints Loss to Packers
 
With a struggling oline, more roll outs & slants would be nice.

The screen game has been almost nonexistent. And not just this season either.

Help out your QB - no need to have our guy sitting back taking shots when you see we are struggling in those trenches.

That’s a coaching problem >Pete Carmichael.

Rsanders24 09-25-2023 08:35 AM
Re: Observations from the Saints Loss to Packers
 
I mulled over this last night and Pete has to go. We have too many weapons on offense that were already on this team to be bad and pedestrian like.

The difference in this game was GB kept attacking downfield and spreading our defense out. Eventually it payed off. If our o-line can’t protect the pocket then move it! I’m tired of watching this anemic offense then watching other games.

We played against a decimated team yesterday and it was pathetic. I don’t know if they are trying to make Carr play like Brees but they need to realize that Brees is gone! They will not create that same magic again. Use Carr and Winston for their strengths and score some points! Watching this offense so far this season is like watching paint dry. Seeing all these other teams create explosive plays makes my blood boil because I know we have the weapons to do that as well.

Don’t get me started on our RedZone offense…

Rsanders24 09-25-2023 08:43 AM
Re: Observations from the Saints Loss to Packers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewT (Post 981181)
We may have gotten the 2022 version of Carr, he has struggled the entire year so far. But with that said, seems to have a big edge over Winston when it comes to game management. Had he not gotten hurt, I would have to think Carr at least is able to eat a little more time off the clock to prevent the Packers from coming back in the end.

Shame on Grupe for missing an easy 46 yard field goal to give the Saints another chance. As bad as Winston looked, to his credit he did at least get the team in position to take a late lead.

The front line was so bad that Peat may have gotten his job back. At least for a short while when he came into the game things seemed to settle down. It's hard to say why this group is struggling so bad, even Ram isn't playing up to his usual level.

Play calling is very suspect, Miller and Jones wasn't exactly lighting it up, but was getting steady yards. And with a front line struggling so bad, where is the screen passing game? OK, so Kamara isn't playing, maybe some WR screens or something?

As for a temporary replacement QB to fill out the roster, I would go Josh Johnson. I know that sounds crazy, but he may be the only guy available who can at least run out of the pocket to avoid some of the pass rush. Maybe Taysom Hill needs to start over Winston for the same reason?
Please share one good stat that Carr has this season. Stop with the “Winston played terrible” narrative…that is pure BS. Neither QB was effective and Winston had damn near the same stats as Carr with less playing time in the game. Plus as soon as he got things going they pull him for Hill and MT gets a hold call that sets them back. Not to mention the WR forgot the plays cause several of them were running the incorrect routes.

This was a coaching failure in the 4th quarter of epic proportions.

MatthewT 09-25-2023 09:01 AM
Re: Observations from the Saints Loss to Packers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rsanders24 (Post 981184)
Please share one good stat that Carr has this season. Stop with the “Winston played terrible” narrative…that is pure BS. Neither QB was effective and Winston had damn near the same stats as Carr with less playing time in the game. Plus as soon as he got things going they pull him for Hill and MT gets a hold call that sets them back. Not to mention the WR forgot the plays cause several of them were running the incorrect routes.

This was a coaching failure in the 4th quarter of epic proportions.
Before you jump all over me, go back and read the very first thing I mentioned about Carr, and yes, Winston is not a good fit for the Saints.

saintsfan1976 09-25-2023 09:31 AM
Re: Observations from the Saints Loss to Packers
 
New system. New coaches. New teammates. I don't care what you think, thigs were going to start slowly for Carr. Which they have to an extent and we've gotten what many of us expected - a Top 15ish QB.

Bottom line though is the O line has put him in jeopardy more often than should be professionally acceptable. All of them. Every single first round pick out there has let him down and they should be embarrassed.

Coaches too

Budsdrinker 09-25-2023 10:11 AM
Re: Observations from the Saints Loss to Packers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by leilung (Post 981178)
Due to "technical difficulties" my ability to watch the last quarter was severely impaired. I have several questions that some of you could answer (without hysteria and hyberbole, but actual observations) that may be able to shed light on this loss for me. Please indulge me.

1) OLine struggles were still evident. What did the line look like after Ruiz went down and did the Carr injury happen as a result of the replacement being keyed on?

2) Inability to simply move the chains seems to be an ongoing theme. Largely, what are the likely culprits- PC's playcalling, Poor execution on all levels of the offense, Packer's D adjusting quicker than our ability to alter, Crowd noise, or some odd combination thereof.

3) Did there look like there was a cohesive plan to move the ball via ground game throughout the game or was it abandoned at some point in favor of throwing the ball downfield? Would AK41's presence have made a significant difference in that plan?

4) Defense got lucky with some dropsies more than a few times early in the game. What happened to the pressure on Love? did they abandon the early game plan (which appeared to be working well) to start dropping back in zone coverage?

Curious as to what some of you saw. Sadly, for some, I can already predict your responses, but surprise me. Let me have them anyway. Thanks!
1. Wasn't Ruiz replacement, Ram was badly beaten on outside rush. The whole line is struggling right now.
2. Play calling and execution. 3rd and 3 and let's throw it 20 yards instead of quick slant or Hill and QB power. Speaking of Hill, it's criminal that he only had 18 snaps on offense. Receivers are also running the wrong routes.
3. The run was abandoned in the 2nd half. I believe there were 21 passes called vs 9 runs. I believe Pete want to try and take advantage of Alexander being out but O-line couldn't provide the time and also see receivers running wrong routes.
4. 4 man rush couldn't get home and to me it looked like Werner was being used as a spy on Love which opened up short passes to RB's out the backfield. Defense got tired in 4th qtr due to 3 and outs.

This is what i saw.

K Major 09-25-2023 11:31 AM
Re: Observations from the Saints Loss to Packers
 
Landon Young ... poor technique & sloppy footwork.

Gotta do better this. QB had no shot.

Saints allowed 4 sacks for 29 yards lost on the day .

iceshack149 09-25-2023 11:35 AM
Re: Observations from the Saints Loss to Packers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewT (Post 981181)

As for a temporary replacement QB to fill out the roster, I would go Josh Johnson. I know that sounds crazy, but he may be the only guy available who can at least run out of the pocket to avoid some of the pass rush. Maybe Taysom Hill needs to start over Winston for the same reason?
I think Josh Johnson and Jameis Winston are the same guy. Kinda like Guido and shawnkytonk. Winston will have to suffice until Carr comes back and this O-line has to figure out how to do better soon.

Rsanders24 09-25-2023 11:54 AM
Re: Observations from the Saints Loss to Packers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewT (Post 981185)
Before you jump all over me, go back and read the very first thing I mentioned about Carr, and yes, Winston is not a good fit for the Saints.
Not jumping on you…just tired of the Carr vs Winston talk. It is completely pointless because the issue is that the offensive scheme doesn’t benefit either of the QBs we have.

Let me ask you this though. What has Carr shown in the past or present that show he is a good fit. I don’t think either of them are good fit for the current offense and I’ve said that before.

This team needs to address the elephant in the room and that is the offensive scheme. It’s not conducive for either QB.

mapcow 09-25-2023 01:05 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints Loss to Packers
 
:rolleyes::lolup::beatnik:

to yesterdays game and all the afterthoughts

rezburna 09-25-2023 01:22 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints Loss to Packers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rsanders24 (Post 981193)
Not jumping on you…just tired of the Carr vs Winston talk. It is completely pointless because the issue is that the offensive scheme doesn’t benefit either of the QBs we have.

Let me ask you this though. What has Carr shown in the past or present that show he is a good fit. I don’t think either of them are good fit for the current offense and I’ve said that before.

This team needs to address the elephant in the room and that is the offensive scheme. It’s not conducive for either QB.
+1

neugey 09-25-2023 01:34 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints Loss to Packers
 
Ian Book is available. Second time a charm?

Rugby Saint II 09-25-2023 01:36 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints Loss to Packers
 
I listened to the game on the radio before I got home and turned on the TV at the end of the third quarter. I kind of wish I'd left it off. That's when we lost....oh, and DC4 injured his shoulder when I was watching.

I was pi$$ed off listening to Deuce talk about going 3-0 at half time. They were talking about how 3-0 teams are heavily favored to make the playoffs. My spidey senses were really tingling! :awe:

Danno 09-25-2023 03:03 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints Loss to Packers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rsanders24 (Post 981193)
Not jumping on you…just tired of the Carr vs Winston talk. It is completely pointless because the issue is that the offensive scheme doesn’t benefit either of the QBs we have.

Let me ask you this though. What has Carr shown in the past or present that show he is a good fit. I don’t think either of them are good fit for the current offense and I’ve said that before.

This team needs to address the elephant in the room and that is the offensive scheme. It’s not conducive for either QB.
What scheme should we be running?

K Major 09-25-2023 03:19 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints Loss to Packers
 
Saints punted 7 x’s on yesterday.

Wow 😮

dizzle88 09-25-2023 03:23 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints Loss to Packers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by K Major (Post 981221)
Saints punted 7 x’s on yesterday.

Wow 😮
And they werent even very good punts.

I know Gillikin had a down year, but I'm not convinced this new guy is any better.

But yeah, same number of punts as offensive points.

Rsanders24 09-25-2023 03:28 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints Loss to Packers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno (Post 981218)
What scheme should we be running?
I’m not an OC but I think we can all see it’s not a good offense. Get the QBs on the move and slide protection, hell…something different than we have seen.

We aren’t the only team with o-line issues. We have too much talent and speed on offense to be this pedestrian. On paper with MT, RS, CO, and the TEs we have something is wrong. With AK back we should be a top 10 offense easily.

Everyone thought that Carr was going to improve the offense…well three weeks in and against sub par defenses, it stinks.

If you think the scheme is fine, please elaborate on what the issue is.

I’m not against either QB but I haven’t seen anything this season that makes me believe that we will have anything close on offense to what we expected.

darstep 09-25-2023 03:42 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints Loss to Packers
 
The play calling is horrible. Defense is doing their job but can't be expected to perform at a high level if they are on the field all the time. Both Carr and Winston are holding the ball too long. Did anybody else see multiple receivers in the same place? on multiple pass plays? Who is designing the route trees? The offense has NO identity. They haven't shown YET if they can pass, run or block well. At some point, we have to do something well (enough) so that other things opens up. As ugly as that loss was, we were just a field goal away from being 3-0.

rezburna 09-25-2023 03:42 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints Loss to Packers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno (Post 981218)
What scheme should we be running?
I’ve asked for more motion. We should be motioning in almost every play. We need more bubble screens. We need more runs outside of the numbers. We need to push the ball down the field everytime there’s a one on one match up. I could go on and on about things I want to see but don’t.

dizzle88 09-25-2023 03:48 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints Loss to Packers
 
Even if Grupe makes that kick, there's 1:10 on the clock and the Packers have 2-3 timeouts.

Theres no way our defense that just allowed 18 straight points would have stopped them.

As soon as the Packers went no huddle and we didn't adjust, this script was written and we were in trouble.

WW_Who_Dat 09-25-2023 04:01 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints Loss to Packers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno (Post 981218)
What scheme should we be running?
Watching the SF-Giants KC- Bears almost every play has motion to get a tell on the defensive coverage, zone, man, who’s isolated single coverage and then attack.
Looks dynamic because it is constantly forcing the defense to identify, communicate and adjust before the every snap.

Watching the Saints play is it
1.Offensive Line
2.Offensive Line Coaching
3.Scheme
Is it 1, 2 or all 3?

We will not have a healthy QB left at this pace by game 10 when the opponents DLine can Tee-off on our QB on too many 3rd and long.

On pace to allow 68 sacks … fix the first 2 and scheme will MIGHT resolve itself with … or not. Either way you have an answer.

K Major 09-25-2023 04:16 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints Loss to Packers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rezburna (Post 981227)
I’ve asked for more motion. We should be motioning in almost every play. We need more bubble screens. We need more runs outside of the numbers. We need to push the ball down the field everytime there’s a one on one match up. I could go on and on about things I want to see but don’t.
The crazy thing here is that the Saints have PLAYMAKERS to make this work.

AK, Shaheed (not targeted once on yesterday), Olave, Miller, Taysom Hill.

I don't know what the OC's name down in Miami is, however his play selection is creative as hell.

AsylumGuido 09-25-2023 05:22 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints Loss to Packers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by iceshack149 (Post 981191)
I think Josh Johnson and Jameis Winston are the same guy. Kinda like Guido and shawnkytonk. Winston will have to suffice until Carr comes back and this O-line has to figure out how to do better soon.
Thank you! I like shawnky. He's good people.

AsylumGuido 09-25-2023 05:23 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints Loss to Packers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzle88 (Post 981228)
Even if Grupe makes that kick, there's 1:10 on the clock and the Packers have 2-3 timeouts.

Theres no way our defense that just allowed 18 straight points would have stopped them.

As soon as the Packers went no huddle and we didn't adjust, this script was written and we were in trouble.
We would have picked Love off trying to force a play to end the game had Grupe made the kick.

Sinner 09-25-2023 06:31 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints Loss to Packers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 981238)
We would have picked Love off trying to force a play to end the game had Grupe made the kick.
But he didn’t, so we didn’t. The game is not called hypothesis. It’s football, and we weren’t prepared to protect a 17 point lead. It shouldn’t have come down to that missed kick.

AsylumGuido 09-25-2023 06:38 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints Loss to Packers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinner (Post 981247)
But he didn’t, so we didn’t. The game is not called hypothesis. It’s football, and we weren’t prepared to protect a 17 point lead. It shouldn’t have come down to that missed kick.
But it did. There's nothing you or I can do or say to change that. Is this not correct? I choose to don my rose colored glasses while you choose the fecal tinted ones instead. It's each to his own. I understand you look at and expect the worst. Doesn't mean I'll ever understand why. And I'll always look for the best in everything. I hope someday you can understand why.

Who Dat, Brother!

:bng:

Sinner 09-25-2023 06:44 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints Loss to Packers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 981248)
But it did. There's nothing you or I can do or say to change that. Is this not correct? I choose to don my rose colored glasses while you choose the fecal tinted ones instead. It's each to his own. I understand you look at and expect the worst. Doesn't mean I'll ever understand why. And I'll always look for the best in everything. I hope someday you can understand why.

Who Dat, Brother!

:bng:
Do rose colored glasses change the score, and turn an L into a W? I’m not wearing glasses. I see facts. We’re in trouble. I saw this coming last year, without any glasses on, and here we are.

BakoSaint 09-25-2023 07:34 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints Loss to Packers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 981248)
But it did. There's nothing you or I can do or say to change that. Is this not correct? I choose to don my rose colored glasses while you choose the fecal tinted ones instead. It's each to his own. I understand you look at and expect the worst. Doesn't mean I'll ever understand why. And I'll always look for the best in everything. I hope someday you can understand why.

Who Dat, Brother!

:bng:
I look for the best in everything too. I look at Pete Carmichael, Doug Marrone, Dennis Allen, and Mickey Loomis and I see wonderful incredible fisherman, golfers, pickleball athletes, etc who could reach their maximum potential if only they weren't so busy with other things on weekends.

I don't see gloom, I see a shake-up as the best happiest result for everyone and leading to exciting seasons with young teams and unlimited possibilities.

AsylumGuido 09-25-2023 07:45 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints Loss to Packers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinner (Post 981249)
Do rose colored glasses change the score, and turn an L into a W? I’m not wearing glasses. I see facts. We’re in trouble. I saw this coming last year, without any glasses on, and here we are.
We are where we are. You can ***** about it all you want, which seems to be your preference, but it changes nothing. Just stay miserable because nothing you do or say changes anything. Yup, poop shaded glasses. :D

For myself I'm looking for a win in the next 18 games.

Who Dat!

:bng:

AsylumGuido 09-25-2023 07:47 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints Loss to Packers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BakoSaint (Post 981255)
I look for the best in everything too. I look at Pete Carmichael, Doug Marrone, Dennis Allen, and Mickey Loomis and I see wonderful incredible fisherman, golfers, pickleball athletes, etc who could reach their maximum potential if only they weren't so busy with other things on weekends.

I don't see gloom, I see a shake-up as the best happiest result for everyone and leading to exciting seasons with young teams and unlimited possibilities.
Great! You want to borrow my unicorn? He doesn't like dung tinted glasses, either.

:bng:

Sinner 09-25-2023 07:54 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints Loss to Packers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BakoSaint (Post 981255)
I look for the best in everything too. I look at Pete Carmichael, Doug Marrone, Dennis Allen, and Mickey Loomis and I see wonderful incredible fisherman, golfers, pickleball athletes, etc who could reach their maximum potential if only they weren't so busy with other things on weekends.

I don't see gloom, I see a shake-up as the best happiest result for everyone and leading to exciting seasons with young teams and unlimited possibilities.
Thank you. THAT RIGHT THERE. ^^^

Sinner 09-25-2023 08:02 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints Loss to Packers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 981258)
We are where we are. You can ***** about it all you want, which seems to be your preference, but it changes nothing. Just stay miserable because nothing you do or say changes anything. Yup, poop shaded glasses. :D

For myself I'm looking for a win in the next 18 games.

Who Dat!

:bng:
As Bako said, “I don’t see gloom, I see a shake-up as the best happiest result for everyone and leading to exciting seasons with young teams and unlimited possibilities.” That’s CLEAR VISION right there.

K Major 09-25-2023 08:23 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints Loss to Packers
 
Watching the Eagles/Bucs game.

Notice how Philly OC keeps attacking downfield.

Methodical, smashing , old school 90s football.

Bucs have no answer.

Sinner 09-25-2023 08:28 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints Loss to Packers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by K Major (Post 981267)
Watching the Eagles/Bucs game.

Notice how Philly OC keeps attacking downfield.

Methodical, smashing , old school 90s football.

Bucs have no answer.
It’s like watching a football game…

rezburna 09-25-2023 08:48 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints Loss to Packers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by K Major (Post 981267)
Watching the Eagles/Bucs game.

Notice how Philly OC keeps attacking downfield.

Methodical, smashing , old school 90s football.

Bucs have no answer.
While we’re still running the Drew Brees offense with no Brees. At this point they might as well go I Formation with max protection and see if they can play physical football since they refuse to implement the concepts of teams like SF, Philly, and Miami.

dizzle88 09-26-2023 02:59 AM
Re: Observations from the Saints Loss to Packers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 981238)
We would have picked Love off trying to force a play to end the game had Grupe made the kick.
Nah, this D couldn't get to Love and the receivers were wide open.

Marshon just stood and watched during the 2 pointer.

A successful kick would not have won this game for us, unless we were able to run the clock out.

BakoSaint 09-26-2023 10:14 AM
Re: Observations from the Saints Loss to Packers
 
I actually agree that we would have picked Love off and returned it 99 yards for a Pick 6, but then we would see a flag at the 1 yard line, call would be pass interference on Yidiam negating INT, then Packers would kick a chip shot to win as time expires. Thats kind of the way it goes.


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