Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something.
 

One big difference in the “flaws” worth pointing out, is that the two teams with flaws that are in the Super Bowl, are actually IN the Super Bowl, while the Saints are not. Other teams with flaws were in the Playoffs, while the Saints were not. Other teams with flaws are actively and dynamically working to correct those flaws, while the Saints are not. Some Saints Fans keep making excuses for our dismal mismanagement, while some of us are not.

Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something.
 

What’s the difference in an “excuse” and a reason?

Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something.
 

Another thing to point out is the “soft schedule” rhetoric. 4 teams the Saints played won playoff games. That’s noteworthy.

Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something.
 

What’s noteworthy is that with “all the right people in the building”, there will be pain for Saints Fans again next season, and no amount of excuses or reasons are gonna put enough lipstick on this pig to make it pretty.

Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something.
 

You could be right. Then again it depends on what one considers a pot of a season. Carolina and New England were hoping for a season as good as the Saints had. Buffalo fans probably are more posses than most.

Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something.
 

I have never viewed my Saints or Pro Football in general, as a competition between teams that $uck a$$ the least. But here we aren’t.

Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something.
 

I'd say they overachieved with quality coaching, players and depth. Texans & Lions (balling on rookie contracts) come to mind.

Lots of reasons why the Saints failed in 2023 ... coaching is at the top of my list. Taking your foot off the neck of the Packers (blew a big lead), being unprepared coming off a bye week and losing to back up QBs.

IIRC the Saints were relatively healthy most of the season.

Front office better make the right hire at OC, hit on this 2024 draft class & in Free Agency. Saints have work to do.

Duly noted though.

Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something.
 

The term "excuse" is used by persons wanting to demean something in the negative context, while "reason" is used by persons making observations on neutrally based fact while both are referring to the same common factors.

Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something.
 

Sure you do. You compared the Saints to Cleveland. So you think the Saints suck ass more than Cleveland does as least.

So what’s your definition of suck ass since you seem so fond of using anal analogies about others.

Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something.
 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F_FJQDaX...g&name=900x900
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-6YhA1W...g&name=900x900


The Saints obviously played subpar ball offensively last season. They started slow in most games and the play calling was ineffective. Where were the screen passes?

Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something.
 

An ineffective/hurt Oline and and injured QB with a subpar run game was an issue with the screens.

And again, they were not subpar all season. They finished top 9 in scoring.

Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something.
 

It all started with that Packers game. We had them by the throat and then our starting QB went down. Our backup comes in and we fall apart. We still had a chance to win the game, but our rookie kicker misses in his third NFL game ever for the loss.

The reason why we lost that game was the injury to our starting QB. Had he not been injured we would have won easily. We would have also made the playoffs and likely would have won several more games.

Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something.
 

Good listen (12 min) from Brees ...

Key points: Building solid depth, consistency, EXPECTATIONS, learning how to finish & evolving.

Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something.
 

I never mentioned Cleveland. Ever.

Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something.
 

It is a neutrally based fact that for whatever reason, we are no longer a competitive team at the championship level, and may not be for a long time. There is no excuse for this.

Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something.
 

The O-line has to be priority #1 this offseason for the Saints. It seemed to regress a whole lot this past season. I know age had something to do with it but I'm a little surprised that Marrone is still employed by the Saints.

Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something.
 

I agree with this. I feel we need to address this through free agency for immediate need, but also through the draft for more developmental depth. I don't believe the naysayers that have given up on Penning and Saldiveri, yet even more young depth is needed.

Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something.
 

There is a lot more to all of this than just business and very little brand loyalty regardless of what delusional rationalization has been levied. Its little more than logical fallacy and if you pick at a thread it all unravels..

- If Gayle stated that she saw Mickey as a son that would be rather sick as she is only 9 years older than he is. She has zero children and should be fairly aware of the perception of age gap since Tom was 20 years older as she was only 1 year away from Toms son's age.

- As far as any blind devotion to Loomis from Gayle or Tom for that matter. In 2012 Sean Payton wanted a clause in his contract that would allow him to leave if Loomis were ever suspended, fired, or left the organization. Sean would have known if there was any sort of blind devotion to Loomis and that clause wouldn't have been requested. The league rejected the language because of the bad precedent it would set for future coaching contracts.

- Tom fought and disowned his own family to prevent the Saints from being moved and his will named Gayle as sole owner because his children would have sold and or moved the team. We can keep thanking Tom for the Saints being in New Orleans as well as the fact that the Superdome lease is not up until 2030. After that, if there is no venue, secessions can read anyway they want the team will be sold out of state because no one in Louisiana will buy a team with no place to play.

- Guess who will administrate Gayle Benon's estate? Not the pseudo son Loomis, its Dennis Lauscha. Tom's will stated that if the trust formed the same day the secession was signed ceases to exist, all of his property would go into another trust run by Gayle and Dennis Lauscha, with Gayle having exclusive voting power in matters concerning the sports franchises.

- Lastly is the premise that Gayle has this mystical generationally dependent loyalty to the franchise. That sort of loyalty wouldn't let the franchise go to shi1t over the course of two years without swinging an axe at those held accountable for its success.

Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something.
 

This is where the organization screwed up the most in my opinion. The O-Line should be at the top of everyone's radar every year because with out it you can neither run nor pass and you put your QBs health as well as ball security in jeopardy.

Know the quote from the movie Glengarry Glen Ross "ABCs, Always Be Closing"? Considering it takes 2-3 years to develop an offensive lineman in the NFL and their average career length is 3.6 years we should 'always be o-lining'.

Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something.
 

It's not like they haven't been "O-Lining" ... Some have worked out, and some haven't. Armstead was a third rounder. Need we mention Jahri Evans, Carl Nicks, Joel Hilgenberg, Brad Edelman, Max Unger, Zach Strief, and many more?

Something's changed maybe in recent drafts with talent evaluation on the OL.

Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something.
 

See dat right here ^^^ ? Yep.

Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something.
 

Penning, Ruiz and Peat are proof they should continue!

Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something.
 

Something has changed in college football over the last decade. New rules from the NCAA has limited greatly the number of hours a school can have contact with the "student athlete". That limit is now 20 hours a week in season of countable activities. Every program has dumbed down their offenses to where almost none of them play anything resembling a pro style scheme. We're not the only franchise having difficulty plugging draftees into the starting offensive line. It's happening all across the league. Teams are holding onto veterans longer and seeing players in that position group age 35 and beyond is becoming rather commonplace just out of sheer need.

Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something.
 

All I know is that this scouting team led by Jeff Ireland better "hit" on these 2024 picks. Make em all count. Especially that 1st rd pick. We need more quality starters (see Ramz, Olave, McCoy), not developmental guys.

Payton Turner, Trevor Penning (year #3), WTFoskey (essentially a rookie redshirt) Marcus Davenport's of the world are looking like huge 1st round "misses".

In rd 1, I don't have the expectation of getting a Hall of Famer draft pick but I do expect to get a QUALITY NFL starter. Anything above that is lagniappe.

It's time for another 2017 SAINTS NFL DRAFT CLASS.

Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something.
 

BTW, Max Unger was a terrific free agent acquisition. Elite player.

At the time, I thought trading Jimmy G for a Olineman was foolish.

It's time to get meaner on that offensive line. Adding Kubiak definitely helps our case in those trenches.

Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something.
 

I’m going to poke now. Andrus Peat - Are we really O-Lining as hard as we should be? :D

The offensive line is 5 positions, we typically carry 8-9 on the roster and 1-2 on the PS. Remember that screen game and how devastating it was? While Pierre Thomas screen vision was probably unmatched, that line had a lot to do with it as well. That screen game would have been even more devastating if Bush could have run 1/2 as much vertically as he did sideline to sideline.

You might see that the decline started trending when we started handing out giant contracts to ball handlers.

Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something.
 

A major factor in the success of that line was the ability to play virtually every snap of every season as that same five man unit. A couple of years ago we had something like 12 or 13 different o-line configurations in 16 or 17 games.

Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something.
 

What if we had drafted o line with the multiple picks traded for Davenport?

Or Zach Baun?

Or Adam Trautman?

Or Eli Apple?

Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something.
 

We'd probably have more Landon Youngs, Rick Leonards, Charles Browns, Matt Tennants, Andrew Tillers, and Nick Saldiveris being developed, or not.