2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch

BakoSaint · 02-28-2024, 11:00 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Kind of agree with most, not all, but if the team believes the surgery (deemed successful) can extend Ramczyk then by all means restructure. Offensive linemen are extremely hard to find and Ramczyk is one of the best we've had recently.

My worry is that the ends justify the means and the team believes the surgery was successful and is optimistic (PR line) because they can't afford for it not to be. They believed Michael Thomas was coming back at full strength 4 years in a row, and he weighed half as much and nobody was throwing the word degenerative around, but the cap ramifications were similar so the optimistic news leaks before every restructure and extension were similar. I guess we all have different trust thresholds and my trust threshold for optimistic injury updates during restructure season has been expended.

AsylumGuido · 02-29-2024, 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

My worry is that the ends justify the means and the team believes the surgery was successful and is optimistic (PR line) because they can't afford for it not to be. They believed Michael Thomas was coming back at full strength 4 years in a row, and he weighed half as much and nobody was throwing the word degenerative around, but the cap ramifications were similar so the optimistic news leaks before every restructure and extension were similar. I guess we all have different trust thresholds and my trust threshold for optimistic injury updates during restructure season has been expended.

Well, at least YOU care about what you think.

AsylumGuido · 02-29-2024, 08:29 AM

Only doing a limited restructure on Cam's contract, but still freeing up an additional $1.5 million.

BakoSaint likes this.

AsylumGuido · 02-29-2024, 08:44 AM

From the link above:

If they wanted to, the Saints could have freed up as much as $9.4 million against this year’s cap by maxing out Jordan’s restructure. He was owed $6.3 million in base salary and $6.7 million in a roster bonus which could have been folded into a new signing bonus and spread out over the next five years for accounting purposes. Instead of lowering his $23.2 million cap hit to $21.7 million, they could have really pushed the envelope and gotten him down to as low as $13.8 million.

But, as Saints assistant general manager Khai Harley likes to say, just because they can doesn’t mean they should. Jordan is coming off his worst year as a pro. He’s also turning 35 this summer and struggled with an ankle injury last season. On top of that, his contract expires after the 2025 season. Right now, it’s set up to void and allow him to retire (if he chooses) in 2026 while leaving behind more than $8.1 million in dead money.

If Jordan is ready to call it a career sooner in 2025, the Saints could use the same mechanisms when Drew Brees and Malcolm Jenkins retired to pay out lower his salary to the veteran’s minimum and designate him a post-June 1 cut, which would result in dead money hits of $5.5 million in 2025 and $3.5 million in 2026. But they aren’t going to push Jordan out the door and he hasn’t said that the 2024 season will be his last.

Those are problems for another day. For now, depending on where you look, the Saints are over the 2024 spending limit by as little as $22.2 million or as much as $24.7 million.

AsylumGuido · 02-29-2024, 09:10 AM

That $300 million cap figure in 2026 is something I've heard elsewhere. It can reach that quite easily.

AsylumGuido · 02-29-2024, 10:18 AM

AsylumGuido · 02-29-2024, 10:21 AM

Almost there and we should have plenty left over for spending money. Let's get some impact free agents!

BakoSaint · 03-26-2024, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

My worry is that the ends justify the means and the team believes the surgery was successful and is optimistic (PR line) because they can't afford for it not to be. They believed Michael Thomas was coming back at full strength 4 years in a row, and he weighed half as much and nobody was throwing the word degenerative around, but the cap ramifications were similar so the optimistic news leaks before every restructure and extension were similar. I guess we all have different trust thresholds and my trust threshold for optimistic injury updates during restructure season has been expended.

My skepticism from a month ago regarding Ram's surgery appears to be proving out. The optimism helped make the restructure seem like great news, when in fact it was more of a painful financial necessity. At least we got Ram to take a pay cut for the year in the process, but I prefer to be realistic and not get caught up in the spin on a player with a degenerative knee.

Realistically restructuring Ram with a pay cut to avoid a big immediate cap hit was probably the best of several bad choices available to us. The main thing we guaranteed with the restructure was a $6.5m bonus what would have guaranteed March 16 anyway unless we cut him before that date. Restructuring in a way that guaranteed more would have been a disaster. Cutting him before March 16 to avoid the bonus would have created a dead cap hit of over $30 million dollars, and we already used both of our post-June-1 designations on Thomas and Winston. So in the end we paid $6.5 million for a lottery ticket on the off chance Ram does fully recover and become a star again, or perhaps a 2023 where he comes back but is diminished but still worth around $6.5m, and we get to delay the dead cap hit.

There is nothing terribly wrong with how we handled the Ram situation. We blew a lot more cash with Carr, Jordan, and Thomas in recent contracts. But I think its a lesson for everyone that positive injury updates should be taken with a grain of salt, because appearances are something the organization also manages, and that includes making the moves they have to make look better than they are and then letting fans down gently when bad news looks inevitable and time is running out. Even 'it's not looking great but there is lots of time' may mean 'he's probably done, but we don't want to hit you all at once with that, so lower your expectations, and we'll get back to you.'

02-28-2024, 11:00 PM	#1
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,347	Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Kind of agree with most, not all, but if the team believes the surgery (deemed successful) can extend Ramczyk then by all means restructure. Offensive linemen are extremely hard to find and Ramczyk is one of the best we've had recently. My worry is that the ends justify the means and the team believes the surgery was successful and is optimistic (PR line) because they can't afford for it not to be. They believed Michael Thomas was coming back at full strength 4 years in a row, and he weighed half as much and nobody was throwing the word degenerative around, but the cap ramifications were similar so the optimistic news leaks before every restructure and extension were similar. I guess we all have different trust thresholds and my trust threshold for optimistic injury updates during restructure season has been expended. Rugby Saint II likes this.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,347

02-29-2024, 08:16 AM	#2
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,573	Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch Originally Posted by BakoSaint My worry is that the ends justify the means and the team believes the surgery was successful and is optimistic (PR line) because they can't afford for it not to be. They believed Michael Thomas was coming back at full strength 4 years in a row, and he weighed half as much and nobody was throwing the word degenerative around, but the cap ramifications were similar so the optimistic news leaks before every restructure and extension were similar. I guess we all have different trust thresholds and my trust threshold for optimistic injury updates during restructure season has been expended. Well, at least YOU care about what you think.

02-29-2024, 08:29 AM	#3
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,573	Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch Only doing a limited restructure on Cam's contract, but still freeing up an additional $1.5 million. Twitter BakoSaint likes this.

02-29-2024, 08:44 AM	#4
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,573	Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch Twitter From the link above: If they wanted to, the Saints could have freed up as much as $9.4 million against this year’s cap by maxing out Jordan’s restructure. He was owed $6.3 million in base salary and $6.7 million in a roster bonus which could have been folded into a new signing bonus and spread out over the next five years for accounting purposes. Instead of lowering his $23.2 million cap hit to $21.7 million, they could have really pushed the envelope and gotten him down to as low as $13.8 million. But, as Saints assistant general manager Khai Harley likes to say, just because they can doesn’t mean they should. Jordan is coming off his worst year as a pro. He’s also turning 35 this summer and struggled with an ankle injury last season. On top of that, his contract expires after the 2025 season. Right now, it’s set up to void and allow him to retire (if he chooses) in 2026 while leaving behind more than $8.1 million in dead money. If Jordan is ready to call it a career sooner in 2025, the Saints could use the same mechanisms when Drew Brees and Malcolm Jenkins retired to pay out lower his salary to the veteran’s minimum and designate him a post-June 1 cut, which would result in dead money hits of $5.5 million in 2025 and $3.5 million in 2026. But they aren’t going to push Jordan out the door and he hasn’t said that the 2024 season will be his last. Those are problems for another day. For now, depending on where you look, the Saints are over the 2024 spending limit by as little as $22.2 million or as much as $24.7 million.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

02-29-2024, 09:10 AM	#5
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,573	Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch That $300 million cap figure in 2026 is something I've heard elsewhere. It can reach that quite easily. Twitter

02-29-2024, 10:18 AM	#6
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,573	Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch Twitter Twitter Twitter Twitter

02-29-2024, 10:21 AM	#7
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,573	Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch Almost there and we should have plenty left over for spending money. Let's get some impact free agents! Twitter

03-26-2024, 06:55 PM	#8
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,347	Re: 2024 Saints Salary Cap Watch Originally Posted by BakoSaint My worry is that the ends justify the means and the team believes the surgery was successful and is optimistic (PR line) because they can't afford for it not to be. They believed Michael Thomas was coming back at full strength 4 years in a row, and he weighed half as much and nobody was throwing the word degenerative around, but the cap ramifications were similar so the optimistic news leaks before every restructure and extension were similar. I guess we all have different trust thresholds and my trust threshold for optimistic injury updates during restructure season has been expended. My skepticism from a month ago regarding Ram's surgery appears to be proving out. The optimism helped make the restructure seem like great news, when in fact it was more of a painful financial necessity. At least we got Ram to take a pay cut for the year in the process, but I prefer to be realistic and not get caught up in the spin on a player with a degenerative knee. Realistically restructuring Ram with a pay cut to avoid a big immediate cap hit was probably the best of several bad choices available to us. The main thing we guaranteed with the restructure was a $6.5m bonus what would have guaranteed March 16 anyway unless we cut him before that date. Restructuring in a way that guaranteed more would have been a disaster. Cutting him before March 16 to avoid the bonus would have created a dead cap hit of over $30 million dollars, and we already used both of our post-June-1 designations on Thomas and Winston. So in the end we paid $6.5 million for a lottery ticket on the off chance Ram does fully recover and become a star again, or perhaps a 2023 where he comes back but is diminished but still worth around $6.5m, and we get to delay the dead cap hit. There is nothing terribly wrong with how we handled the Ram situation. We blew a lot more cash with Carr, Jordan, and Thomas in recent contracts. But I think its a lesson for everyone that positive injury updates should be taken with a grain of salt, because appearances are something the organization also manages, and that includes making the moves they have to make look better than they are and then letting fans down gently when bad news looks inevitable and time is running out. Even 'it's not looking great but there is lots of time' may mean 'he's probably done, but we don't want to hit you all at once with that, so lower your expectations, and we'll get back to you.'
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,347