Who Are The Right People Really?
 

It's obvious that we don't have the right people in the building.

Who are the wrong people should be the question?

This was supposed to be a poll. My apologies to the poll enthusiasts out there.

Gayle Benson-Owner
Dennis Lauscha-President
Mickey Loomis- General Manager
Dennis Allen- Head Coach
Pete Carmichael- Offensive Coordinator
Doug Marrone- O line Coach
Other- Maximum Of 20 Poll Questions

Re: Who Are The Right People Really?
 

Start right at the top. That’s the way any successful business works, or unsuccessful business doesn’t work.

Re: Who Are The Right People Really?
 

It's a shame Payton didn't run a year earlier.
The right person was in the building in Dan Campbell and Aaron Glenn. Though I'm sure Loomis would still have gone with Dennis Allen

Re: Who Are The Right People Really?
 

It comes down to who has Mrs. Benson's ear and if she cares about the product on the field. Way back when John Fox gave Sean Payton a good review to Tom Benson.,

Re: Who Are The Right People Really?
 

Same page.

Drew a year too long.
Payton a year too long.
Now, seemingly, DA will be here another season too long...

What's it going to take

Re: Who Are The Right People Really?
 

Unfortunately prolly another year due to the insane signing of DC4. It's hard for me to even type this. :bng:

Re: Who Are The Right People Really?
 

Tell you the truth, I don't see DC4 as unsalvageable QB1 material. He needs several things to make his experience pay off tho.
- A Pocket, because he ain't a running threat
- A Faster Decision Making Process, his progression reads are among the slowest in the NFL right now
- More Creative Offensive Playcalling... 'nuff said on that subject
-More Trust in his Receivers. This is huge! Time and again we saw Drew just throw that ball in the zip code of the route and BOOM, the receiver would catch it in stride and roll out for nice gains. Defenders on the line would complain that the ball would just fly over the line out of nowhere and be where the receiver was running, before a DB could try to jump a route, or a D Lineman could bat it down. If this team wants to stay committed to a 'Pocket QB' (contrary to the mobile trend) then he's got to have the tools to be successful.

If we're stuck with him, might as well get the most out of him.
Or as a wise man once told me: Can't shine a turd, but you can at least cover the smell!

Re: Who Are The Right People Really?
 

The small challenge with that is that he hasn't shown the quick reading ability in all his years in the NFL. Very few QBs have that, and Brees was one of them. The quick reading negates somewhat a below par OL. In the absence of a proper OL which not many teams have these days, the need to an RPO type is a bit more glaring, if nothing other than the ability to create more time to make a play. The challenge with the latter is that the injury bug will definitively bite the QB position by the simple nature of a mobile QB. We've seen it too many times and continue to see it. Mahomes is hobbling around now and is doing the best he can.

I think we've come full circle and need to beef up the OL and go back to a QB that reads like a Brees or Tom Brady. But good luck finding that gem. Tom Brady aptly described the current state of NFL football as average, and he's right; What's the average NFL record these days? We're in an age of the Lamar Jacksons. LSU's JD5 is a similar QB. But he ain't a fast reader either. Whiner got lucky with QB Purdy. We need to find out if "Pretty Boy" Haener can be a similar QB. But we won't with this coaching staff this year, unfortunately. The Raiders' starting QB was drafted right after Jake Haener and is winning games. Of course the Raiders did make a move at HC too. Their move shows as the team appears more motivated.

Re: Who Are The Right People Really?
 

I’ve said this on a post before but it seems the dire straits that this division is in it is a perfect time to start anew with this team. Take your salary cap hits, draft what you can or trade for more future draft picks, let Carr be the most expensive stop gap in history and prepare for the future. Don’t trade up just to get a QB to get one. In this division a sub par team can compete for a division title (see ATL and TB) with the RIGHT coaches in place. So yes get rid of DA and find the guy of the future now and let him be responsible for building this team the way he wants.

Re: Who Are The Right People Really?
 

Defending no one in particular but the offense is at a huge disadvantage to start with because our 2 middle school coaches are going up against real NFL level coaches on most Sundays. It shows in game prep and planning, we are consistently behind by the end of the 1st half if not the 1st quarter. Twiddle Dee and Twiddle Dumb are trash-time kings of mediocrity.

At this point we KNOW what Allen is, the team is not prepared, lacks discipline and accountability which starts with the head coach. Allen’s repeated sound bites post game, “we have to look at film see what went wrong what went right and play better. How do you think he has delivered on those talking points. IMHO the answer is a resounding NO for 2 seasons in a row.

Re: Who Are The Right People Really?
 

The Saints can only ease out of their cap situation and it will take several years. Sad but true, most of their contracts cost additional cap space to get out of. Dead cap money is only part of the issue, the real problem is having to come up with more cap space that already isn't there in order to release someone from the roster. Then when considering Loomis is already 67, it's very possible the current accounting practices continue, I doubt he cares about rebuilding at this point.

Re: Who Are The Right People Really?
 

Our best hope could be if Loomis can con a really dumb owner to sign him away from the Saints so he can get a fresh start and have a chance to win now in the process of wrecking a new salary cap. The Saints are like his liver, he is not willing to do what it would take to have any chance of long term recovery. But he may be willing to put his name on a list to get a new team / salary cap / liver.

Re: Who Are The Right People Really?
 

Loomie is in large part causal with this situation. It may be time to make a change. Jeff Ireland and Khai and can cover. Will Mrs. Benson take note? Probably not. It's beyond time for the fans ta make sure Loomie and Mrs. Benson feel the heat.

Re: Who Are The Right People Really?
 

What makes Cares inability to read and react quickly even worse is how he just freezes under pressure. He makes late 39s Tom Brady/Manning look fast twitched.

Re: Who Are The Right People Really?
 

Does anyone think Gayle has enough football savvy to pick a better GM than Loomis?

Scouts and coaches should be 1st on the chopping block.

Re: Who Are The Right People Really?
 

I am absolutely sure if Dennis Lauscha tells her change is needed she will do so without a second thought

Re: Who Are The Right People Really?
 

Yes. She could pick the actor who plays Ted Lasso. She could pick the random actor who plays the insurance agent from the state farm commercials with Mahomes. Would he be below average? Sure. But probably when he saw the current head coach had 2 consecutive losing seasons with the Saints, never beat a winning team except against backup QB Gardner Minshew, and before that had 3 more losing seasons with the Raiders, and is among the worst coaches ever after 5 years as coach, he would say 'hmmm, we need a new coach, fire him.' Then in his search for a new coach, he would not be a genius or visionary, but he probably would start his search where anyone else would, with candidates who recently had some kind of winning record in college, were a top assistant to a winning NFL coach, or were previously an NFL coach with a mixed record where they won some seasons and lost others. For the salary cap, they would probably try to get under it and not use insane loopholes to max it out, because being extremely leveraged on credit makes most normal people nervous. In every way, a random American with minimal casual knowledge of sports would make better decisions that would make them a better GM than Mickey Loomis.

In fact, Gayle could probably make herself GM and be better than Mickey Loomis. Not hiring a coach with a .250 record is a basic simple piece of logic 99.9% of people including Gayle likely have. It's like not buying meat that is green, not accepting a ride from someone driving a panel van with no windows and with bars between the driver and passengers, or not dining at restaurant with rat droppings on the floor. There is nothing Gayle could do worse than Mickey Loomis and many things she would likely do better if she was more involved and just making average common sense decisions and doing the consensus of what the talking heads suggest.

Gayle could also simply hire some talking suit business consultants and from New York and have them do a strategic analysis and do what they say. I am sure they would suggest firing the proven loser and bringing in a logical person with past success or a young assistant because it would work the same way as looking for a CEO. Just like they would go for the former president of Coke or the young rising VP of KFC to be the new CEO of Popeyes or whatever, and probably not Sam Bankman Fried or the guy behind Fire Festival, they would likely also be able to find a new GM and coach.

Re: Who Are The Right People Really?
 

I loved Dennis in Weekend at Bernie's. Really energetic guy. I bet he is heavily involved and very concerned.

Re: Who Are The Right People Really?
 

I really don't know much at all about Dennis Lauscha. Can he be a voice of reason or is he too deeply entwined into the echo chamber?

Re: Who Are The Right People Really?
 

No matter what, we’re sitting at THIRD PLACE IN THE NFC SOUTH, and going nowhere slowly… Happy New Year.

Re: Who Are The Right People Really?
 

I'm not so sure about that. The Saints seem to operate more as a group collective. If Loomis leaves it's under his own terms.

I just hope Mickey Loomis gets this cap under control before he decides to retire and spend his millions of dollars in luxury.

Re: Who Are The Right People Really?
 

Khai Harley is the one that is driving these contracts from what I understand. Loomis is riding shotgun.

Re: Who Are The Right People Really?
 

Well he’s at the wrong end of the shotgun then.

Re: Who Are The Right People Really?
 

The salary cap is actually not very complex. Anyone with basic high school math skills could manage it. There is nothing Mickey Loomis or Khai Hartley is doing that Christina Aguilera or Carrot Top could not probably do. No genius is required. Its just a shroud of mystery to fans because its boring, and so none of them want to take 2 hours of boring math studies to understand it. There are even multiple websites that will do the math for any of us.

The basic concept is that you take a base salary, say $16 million. You reduce it to a league minimum for that players experience level, always around $1 million (0.8-1.4 or so) . You give the player the $15 million difference as a bonus. You are allowed to prorate that bonus over a max of 5 years, and in our situation you always pick that max. If the contract is not that long you add void years. So, instead of $16 million, the player only counts $1+$3=$4 million against the cap for that year. The remaining $12 million have been prorated out. If you cut them, you owe that $12 million back against the cap instantly, or if you do it post June 1 you owe it for the next league year. None of that $12 million can ever be restructured again, as its already a bonus that was paid and can't be converted. You can also restructure other payments like future roster bonuses by converting them before they are paid, just not prorated money.

The problems add up over time. Say the same player is due $16 million the next year. You can do the same. But $3 million of that prorated money comes due that year so they are actually due $19 million. You can again prorate $15 million of their base salary at $3 million a year and pay them $3+$3+$1=$7 million that year instead. But now $9 million from the first restructure and $12 million from the second restructure is prorated out.

Then the next year you are on the hook for $16+$3+$3=$22 million. But you restructure and reduce that to $3+$3+$3+$1=$10 million. But now you have prorated out $6+$9+$12=$27 million. Now the player takes a major decline in performance but you cannot afford the cap hit to cut them. But they are due $16+3+3+3=$25 million if you dont restructure again. So you restructure again, still have to pay them $13 million, and the dead cap hit increases to $30 million of prorated money. Then you finally probably have to cut them the next year, if you aren't Mickey Loomis, and can afford to. So the final two years you pay a useless player who was worth $16m/yr at their peak $43 million over their final two years when they are washed.

It's really like 7th - 8th grade math. Brian Bozworth could figure it out. Carly Sings could figure it out. Harley and Loomis are nothing special, just a couple con men who passed 7th grade.

Re: Who Are The Right People Really?
 

I feel like Khai Harley drives a motorcyle, not a car, in terms of where Mickey Loomis is riding on these contracts.

Re: Who Are The Right People Really?
 

And even Carrot Top, after doing the math, wouldn’t be able to put on rose colored glasses and say, “Maybe next year”…
We’re in for more darkness.

Re: Who Are The Right People Really?
 

Well Carrot Top would completely kick my ass without even trying and Christina is still fine as hell so these are superior choices. Maybe we found our new GM brain trust.

Re: Who Are The Right People Really?
 

The funny thing though, is that this accounting method is rapidly being integrated into other NFL front offices around the league. Accounting departments in other franchises understand basic 7th and 8th grade math too. I wonder why it took so long to catch on as much as it has? Maybe it's a little more complicated than we think?

I do agree that we push the limits on restructures and owe too many players money that are no longer on the roster.

Re: Who Are The Right People Really?
 

Every accounting method has its own strengths and weaknesses. That's why some businesses use FIFO and others choose LIFO as the basis of their cost accounting.

https://cdn.jwplayer.com/v2/media/BA....jpg?width=720

The various principles used by Loomis, Harley, and others are similar in nature.

Those, by the way, are better understood with an accounting background rather than middle school math. ;)

Re: Who Are The Right People Really?
 

All Accounting and Middle School Math aside, WE SUCK.
THIS is better understood by watching our team play WITHOUT the rose colored glasses and Xanax.

Re: Who Are The Right People Really?
 

There is a difference between flooring it on the straight aways versus taping a lead weight to the accelerator all the way around the track. Of course other teams use restructures as a credit facility to go all in when they see their window if they think they are one player away. But that is very different than what we do, 100% maxxing out the credit card every season forever. We are basically twice as much over the cap as any other team. The Eagles are leveraged a lot too with restructures, but they play the long game in other ways with draft trades to accumulate picks. And they are in their window, having just lost the Super Bowl on the final plays. And we are far more over the 2024 cap. The Chiefs won the Super Bowl and totally ignore our model, they have many players on original base salaries and let expensive aging vets move on. Meanwhile the Rams and Bucs, the other two most recent winners, went all in win now, won, and then rebuilt. Yet still in rebuilding they are both better than us. The Eagles, Chiefs, 49ers, and Ravens are already under the 2024 cap, we are $87 million over. We are not trend setters. We are a cautionary tale.

Re: Who Are The Right People Really?
 

Salient points, well articulated.

Re: Who Are The Right People Really?
 

We are basically the 2023 Mets with shoulder pads. And without the fire sale.

Re: Who Are The Right People Really?
 

Different methods of cost management. More and more franchises are beginning the year "over the cap" by increasing numbers. I know you hate it, but it is the future of the NFL.

Re: Who Are The Right People Really?
 

The difference is, more and more franchises are still going to WIN GAMES and get into the PLAYOFFS, while WE WON’T.

Re: Who Are The Right People Really?
 

Cap management is not the reason we won't be in the playoffs again this year. The accounting can work with good coaches.....like when we had Payton and Brees in the building and so went all in every year. The accounting system could work because I think Loomis built a good foundation going into the season. However, our coaches,....especially the coach formerly affectionately known a DA handed us a big old **** sandwich!

The cap ain't the problem. It's the coaching.

Re: Who Are The Right People Really?
 

It’s the whole SHE BANG, from the top - down.

Re: Who Are The Right People Really?
 

Thus far the Saints are 2-3 during a critical stretch "character reveal" as Mickey Loomis (per his interview with Hoss on WWL) proclaimed.

I surely hope he's been taking good notes.

Big picture, I hope this front office is committed to making serious changes in January otherwise, you will stay on the mediocrity boat.

Re: Who Are The Right People Really?
 

The over-the-cap and dead-money issues in and of itself is not the big problem. It's the roster inflexibility and gridlock that comes with it.

Re: Who Are The Right People Really?
 

The top 4 teams in current Super Bowl odds, the 49ers, Ravens, Eagles, and Chiefs, who are all under the 2024 salary cap, would be fascinated to know that the Saints are the future of the NFL according to some guy named Guido. 8 teams are currently over the 2024 salary cap by a total of ~$260 million. We are $87 million over, which is 1/3 of the dollars over the 2024 salary cap for the entire league. Meanwhile the other 24 teams in the league are a combined $933 million under the 2024 salary cap including the top 4 teams in the league.

I don't even know that 8 teams being over the next years salary cap, only 4 by over $25 million / 10%, in late December, is even an increasing trend. Do you know that there were not 4 teams 10% over the 2004 salary cap on 12/30/2003? Maybe Mickey Loomis's 'innovation' only appeared to be an increasing trend during covid when the cap dropped and other normally responsible teams needed to borrow short term, and now they are all going back to normal where the Saints once again stand out with 1/3rd of the cap deficit for the entire 32 team league. Or maybe there is a slight uptick in cap borrowing among desperate and loser teams just like the tide pod challenge took off. But just because at one time the tide pod challenge was an increasing trend does not mean its the future of nutritional excellence. To determine the future you can't just look at trends you have to look at outcomes, and in either case the outcome is fans needing to have their stomachs pumped.

If you look at the other teams that are over the cap there is a pattern. None are over the 2024 cap by half what the Saints are, the Bills are like 49.9% at the 2nd biggest spender. Many of the other teams over the cap are winners but not 1st tier winners. They are the teams that woulda coulda shoulda and are getting desperate. Just behind the Saints at $87 million over you have the Bills who keep coming in as Miss Congeniality behind the Chiefs or Bengals and have gotten to a desperate stage to make it happen now or never with a running QB who is not getting younger. Then you have the Dolphins who have spent big to bring on Tyreek Hill, Jaylen Ramsey, Armstead etc to win now knowing Tua is one concussion from retirement and on his rookie contract and have been hyping themselves but unable to win. Then you have the Chargers who are incredible underachievers. The Broncos who are under extreme pressure with the bust trade for Wilson. The Cowboys who already fold in December and the playoffs. The Browns who buster on Watson. The Steelers who are struggling to stay relevant after Big Ben. Essentially all the teams over the 2024 cap are desperate underachievers with their coaches and/or GMs job security a subject of open discussions, teams that are not confident in what they have, and feel obligated to put it all on the table to win now and damn the consequences while everyone knows the true favorites are teams under the cap and confident like the Chiefs, 49ers, and Eagles. And even of those desperate teams no other team is half as desperate as us, most are less than 1/4 as desperate, and we are among the furthest from winning, with among the worst quarterbacks.

I would say the trend in the NFL is you try to build a stable sustainable contender by staying at or under future salary caps. If your team continually comes up just short and fans are losing patience you go all in for a year or two and try to get lucky. But if that doesn't work you rebuild, because if you are going all in every year, going all in does not give you any edge, its just taking on new debts to pay off old debts with the same mediocrity, and leaves you in a position where if you do get to second tier, you have no cushion to go more all-in to get to first tier.