New Orleans Saints Forums - blackandgold.com

New Orleans Saints Forums - blackandgold.com (https://blackandgold.com/community/)
-   Saints (https://blackandgold.com/saints/)
-   -   The Final TD, DA's Lack of Authority, and the Consequence of Salary Cap Paralysis (https://blackandgold.com/saints/103438-final-td-das-lack-authority-consequence-salary-cap-paralysis.html)

BakoSaint 01-07-2024 11:50 PM

The Final TD, DA's Lack of Authority, and the Consequence of Salary Cap Paralysis
 

The players asked DA to run the ball to get Jamaal Williams a TD. DA said no. The players did it anyway. They openly defied their coach. Then their coach called them out in the press conference. Then the players went on social media and basically said 'so what, we don't regret it.'

In theory, players would not try this with a coach who was more of a leader, who they feared.

But the reality may not be so simple. It's hard to count all the players who supported this. Winston said it was unanimous on the part of the offense. So lets look at who supported this: Winston (open tweet), McCoy (open tweet), Ruiz (other players have said he was an instigator to doing it), Peat and the rest of the oline (implied by their participation, but Ram was on IR so nothing from Ram), Williams himself, Juwon Johnson (open tweet), whichever receivers were in the game on that play, Cam Jordan (open tweet), Alvin Kamara (open tweet), and to some degree Derek Carr (said to reporters it was not concerning that the players overruled DA). Among these players, Carr, McCoy, and Jordan are captains, while Winston and Kamara were captains last year, so this a block including most of the teams leaders. There are probably more tweets I am missing too.

If it was simple, the coach would simply threaten to move on from all these players, cut loose the instigators and those who would not fall in line, and re-assert his authority. The problem is, we are $72 million over the salary cap. McCoy, Ruiz, Johnson, Jordan, Kamara, not to mention Carr, all have giants contracts, and at most we could afford to move on from one or two and still have to restructure all the rest. If the goal is still to 'win now' we have to restructure them all. They all have every dollar of dead cap ready to hit if we cut them that any player could ever have from max restructures every year. Carr, Jordan, and Williams all have guaranteed salaries for 2024. Any threat to shape up or ship out is empty, we can't afford to move on from many of these players. Allen could cut a symbolic few but the rest are still left to laugh in his face and disrespect him next year because cleaning house is fiscally impossible in our cap situation. Allen has no authority because the cap poorest team in the league doesn't have authority, the team has taken on a form of debt, and the players are their creditors, owed binding promises to money in future years where the team is over the cap. Add to this that it has been reported that the team may have some dispute with Lattimore and is exploring a trade or cut, Ramczyk who is owed a ton has a degenerative knee condition and might have sided with the rest of his oline if he was on the field anyway, the team has no money to replace anyone in free agency (or any additions in free agency would make it impossible to clean house even in 2025), and only two picks in the first 4 rounds to draft replacements.

Dennis Allen is a bad leader, but he has not lost the team only because he is a bad leader. He has also lost the team because being twice as much over the salary cap as any other team means no coach or executive for this team has the power other teams do. If Russell Wilson was on the Saints, he could bench Dennis Allen for the final two games not the other way around, because we could not afford to cut him. Mickey Loomis' cap management means the Saints can rarely afford to walk away from injury prone or underperforming veterans once they are given big contracts, but what it means for one player is nothing compared to a group. Today, or possibly earlier, Saints players realized they have that power. Loomis and DA cannot afford to walk away from a group of players like this without violating the salary cap. Money is power. The Saints don't have that power. They can't afford to cut. They can't afford to replace. For all we know the players have called their own plays whenever else they felt like it and that has been part of their turn around.

So, the players openly defied DA. They continue to do so. There won't be consequences. We can't afford consequences. The coaches are idiots so the players may be right. But ultimately a team has never won it all without a coach. And no coach can have power when a team is so in debt that if a group of players defy him, the only option is to restructure much of the group and bring them back for 2024. You reap what you sew DA and Loomis, you reap what you sew.

lee909 01-07-2024 11:56 PM

Re: The Final TD, DA's Lack of Authority, and the Consequence of Salary Cap Paralysis
 
https://media1.tenor.com/m/8VuoWytT3...green-mile.gif

BakoSaint 01-07-2024 11:58 PM

Re: The Final TD, DA's Lack of Authority, and the Consequence of Salary Cap Paralysis
 








claus808 01-08-2024 04:15 AM

Re: The Final TD, DA's Lack of Authority, and the Consequence of Salary Cap Paralysis
 
Scary. I love it. However this will be the talk during the whole offseason. DA ain't going anywhere it seems. His p**** footing around and support was put on blast. The guy is so damn soft. I cringe when I watch his post game locker room speeches... It's so "meh."

SmashMouth 01-08-2024 06:52 AM

Re: The Final TD, DA's Lack of Authority, and the Consequence of Salary Cap Paralysis
 

neugey 01-08-2024 07:24 AM

Re: The Final TD, DA's Lack of Authority, and the Consequence of Salary Cap Paralysis
 
I can't even begin to follow the pretzel logic that running a play out of the victory formation was an innocent plot to reward a teammate. That play is a show of sportsmanship that is older than all of the players on the field at all levels of football. The players knew they were violating the bro code and then some. No other way to slice it.

Dennis also left no doubt he is the most feckless coach in pro sports.

The optics are horrible. If time heals all wounds we are going to need every single day of offseason that we can get. Barring something unforeseeable (please Dennis resign!), we will be in for even more dysfunction next year.

MatthewT 01-08-2024 07:49 AM

Re: The Final TD, DA's Lack of Authority, and the Consequence of Salary Cap Paralysis
 
I know a great many will disagree with me on this, but I think there is a pretty good chance Jameis may have ended his NFL playing career with that decision. No it wasn't all him, but he was the guy under center who went against his coaches orders. His market over the past few years has been very soft, I just don't believe a team is going to be in a rush to sign a backup QB who may or may not listen to his head coach moving forward.

As for Dennis Allen not having the respect of his players, that is a serious issue that needs to be addressed. I am not sure if he is dealing with an entire team of this, or a few ring leaders. I suspect since the team continued to play hard the entire year that it's likely a small handful that needs to be dealt with. If nothing is done either way, DA fired or negative players removed from the team, then yes it will get much worse moving forward.

saintsfan1976 01-08-2024 07:52 AM

Re: The Final TD, DA's Lack of Authority, and the Consequence of Salary Cap Paralysis
 
If you felt he deserved a TD, then line up and win one.

papz 01-08-2024 07:54 AM

Re: The Final TD, DA's Lack of Authority, and the Consequence of Salary Cap Paralysis
 
Let's see if the players' "revolt" forces Benson's hand. If we don't have the balls to move on, I have a feeling we're going to go stuck for a couple of more years. We're going to wind up winning 10 games next season, make the playoffs, and allow Allen to keep his job for another season after that.

SmashMouth 01-08-2024 08:06 AM

Re: The Final TD, DA's Lack of Authority, and the Consequence of Salary Cap Paralysis
 

rezburna 01-08-2024 08:07 AM

Re: The Final TD, DA's Lack of Authority, and the Consequence of Salary Cap Paralysis
 
On the drive before they tried to get Williams a TD but they had the penalty on the goal line that pushed them back so they ended up passing it to AT Perry for his second TD. You could see they were trying to get him a TD the whole game. There’s a difference between watching football and understanding what you’re seeing. If the Saints line up in a regular formation DA’s calling a timeout. It was all about Williams and the fact the entire team was on board but DA wasn’t isn’t a coincidence. Call it bush league. Call it cheap. Call it what you want. Don’t throw a pick trying to score a TD down by almost 30 with 1 minute left on the clock. If the game is out of reach kneel and go home if you don’t want the other team to score again. There was no reason for them to still be trying to score. They weren’t coming back. They even had their backup QB in. Keep all the crybaby, unwritten rule **** in baseball.

papz 01-08-2024 08:24 AM

Re: The Final TD, DA's Lack of Authority, and the Consequence of Salary Cap Paralysis
 

saintsfan1976 01-08-2024 08:27 AM

Re: The Final TD, DA's Lack of Authority, and the Consequence of Salary Cap Paralysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SmashMouth (Post 990871)

Ben Watson is wrong here. Just imagine if a defender was injured on this play. How dumb would everyone look then?

rezburna 01-08-2024 08:32 AM

Re: The Final TD, DA's Lack of Authority, and the Consequence of Salary Cap Paralysis
 
And another thing, why the **** does DA keep sending Jameis Winston out to take a knee at the end of the game? What’s the point of that? Put your $40 million golden goose in and let him take the knee. I’m sure he’d fall in line and follow orders since he got him a $150 million contract.

SmashMouth 01-08-2024 08:32 AM

Re: The Final TD, DA's Lack of Authority, and the Consequence of Salary Cap Paralysis
 

neugey 01-08-2024 08:39 AM

Re: The Final TD, DA's Lack of Authority, and the Consequence of Salary Cap Paralysis
 
If you want your favorite teammate to finally score, lineup in the I-formation or buy him a hooker.

stickman 01-08-2024 09:11 AM

Re: The Final TD, DA's Lack of Authority, and the Consequence of Salary Cap Paralysis
 
Two thoughts on this...

1. For a guy like Ben Watson to come out and say DA has lost the team is telling.

2. In Jameis' interview, he kept referring to DA. Not Coach Allen, DA. That's telling as well.

SmashMouth 01-08-2024 09:15 AM

Re: The Final TD, DA's Lack of Authority, and the Consequence of Salary Cap Paralysis
 
https://youtu.be/om6Ti1b-lQY?si=CxhFXQvYoK_yC20u&t=223

Sinner 01-08-2024 09:35 AM

Re: The Final TD, DA's Lack of Authority, and the Consequence of Salary Cap Paralysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rezburna (Post 990877)
And another thing, why the **** does DA keep sending Jameis Winston out to take a knee at the end of the game? What’s the point of that? Put your $40 million golden goose in and let him take the knee. I’m sure he’d fall in line and follow orders since he got him a $150 million contract.

I’d give JW the game ball for that “not-knee” alone.

SmashMouth 01-08-2024 09:38 AM

Re: The Final TD, DA's Lack of Authority, and the Consequence of Salary Cap Paralysis
 

SmashMouth 01-08-2024 09:40 AM

Re: The Final TD, DA's Lack of Authority, and the Consequence of Salary Cap Paralysis
 


SmashMouth 01-08-2024 09:41 AM

Re: The Final TD, DA's Lack of Authority, and the Consequence of Salary Cap Paralysis
 

SmashMouth 01-08-2024 09:44 AM

Re: The Final TD, DA's Lack of Authority, and the Consequence of Salary Cap Paralysis
 



SmashMouth 01-08-2024 09:48 AM

Re: The Final TD, DA's Lack of Authority, and the Consequence of Salary Cap Paralysis
 

SmashMouth 01-08-2024 09:56 AM

Re: The Final TD, DA's Lack of Authority, and the Consequence of Salary Cap Paralysis
 

SmashMouth 01-08-2024 10:01 AM

Re: The Final TD, DA's Lack of Authority, and the Consequence of Salary Cap Paralysis
 

SmashMouth 01-08-2024 10:03 AM

Re: The Final TD, DA's Lack of Authority, and the Consequence of Salary Cap Paralysis
 

bobdog86 01-08-2024 10:08 AM

Re: The Final TD, DA's Lack of Authority, and the Consequence of Salary Cap Paralysis
 
F Atlanta. Dirty birds can suck a big one. No apologies

K Major 01-08-2024 10:10 AM

Re: The Final TD, DA's Lack of Authority, and the Consequence of Salary Cap Paralysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SmashMouth (Post 990906)

C'mon Shannon get a grip on Winston.

Screw the Falcons. Good to see them get choked out for 3 hours.

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-d0KjP-xaD.../dont-care.gif

neugey 01-08-2024 10:28 AM

Re: The Final TD, DA's Lack of Authority, and the Consequence of Salary Cap Paralysis
 
Funny thing - Arthur Smith put his backups or at least his backup QB in to get reps in a lopsided game. But DA doesn't put in Jameis for mop-up; he only puts him in during kneel-downs so the golden child Carr doesn't lose 2 yards rushing stats.

While Jameis and the players should be at fault for the bush league play, the horrible coaching and tone DA sets directly led to this incident. So DA is FAR from innocent in all of this.

DA's apology didn't bother me, but passing the buck and outing his players 100% did.

SmashMouth 01-08-2024 11:05 AM

Re: The Final TD, DA's Lack of Authority, and the Consequence of Salary Cap Paralysis
 
Asking for a friend ... when a QB calls an audible on a play, is that considered a bush league play, one that calls for an apology? Could this victory formation fake play be considered along the same lines as other fake plays, like "Ambush" ? What should we then name this play so as to cement it in Saints history?

BakoSaint 01-08-2024 11:13 AM

Re: The Final TD, DA's Lack of Authority, and the Consequence of Salary Cap Paralysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MatthewT (Post 990863)
I know a great many will disagree with me on this, but I think there is a pretty good chance Jameis may have ended his NFL playing career with that decision. No it wasn't all him, but he was the guy under center who went against his coaches orders. His market over the past few years has been very soft, I just don't believe a team is going to be in a rush to sign a backup QB who may or may not listen to his head coach moving forward.

As for Dennis Allen not having the respect of his players, that is a serious issue that needs to be addressed. I am not sure if he is dealing with an entire team of this, or a few ring leaders. I suspect since the team continued to play hard the entire year that it's likely a small handful that needs to be dealt with. If nothing is done either way, DA fired or negative players removed from the team, then yes it will get much worse moving forward.

Jameis is beloved and even if he ends his NFL playing career, he will be much more successful than DA as an announcer or coach. It seems like Jameis was a more effective motivator for the team to stay positive and win than DA was, so the team could also spiral without him. Jameis put teammates first while DA is a me first guy who nobody respects or ever will respect.

Jameis just did a restructure to help the team. If the team retaliates and backs out on agreements behind that restructure, other players may not agree to any creative restructures.

The negative players can't be removed from the team because the team would violate the salary cap and face unprecedented penalties when their dead cap hits. McCoy, Ruiz, Johnson, Jordan, Kamara, etc have all publicly supported this team decision. The team could not cut them all and stay under the cap. The most they could do I guess is pay many of them for the 2024 season while keeping them inactive for every game, but man, we would go 0-17 and have locker room civil war.

DA and Loomis have painted themselves into a corner with this. They are like the law, if the jail was already booked at its absolute legal limit for the next year, and they could not send anyone to jail. When you max the cap you can't cut veterans.

BakoSaint 01-08-2024 11:19 AM

Re: The Final TD, DA's Lack of Authority, and the Consequence of Salary Cap Paralysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SmashMouth (Post 990919)
Asking for a friend ... when a QB calls an audible on a play, is that considered a bush league play, one that calls for an apology? Could this victory formation fake play be considered along the same lines as other fake plays, like "Ambush" ? What should we then name this play so as to cement it in Saints history?

I remember when Peyton Manning faked a spike against us. I don't like faking the victory formation but I think faking a spike is just as low and risks injury even more, yet Peyton was applauded for it.

SmashMouth 01-08-2024 11:21 AM

Re: The Final TD, DA's Lack of Authority, and the Consequence of Salary Cap Paralysis
 

WW_Who_Dat 01-08-2024 11:25 AM

Re: The Final TD, DA's Lack of Authority, and the Consequence of Salary Cap Paralysis
 
Jameis + 10 did it for a teammate … get over it. Arthur Smith’s reaction understandable, knows the pink slip awaits his return to the Failcants crib.

Allen response is more proof this soft serve vanilla standin is not a head coach in the NFL.

Do I expect Allen to be released, absolutely not unfortunately. Add injury to insult good chance they double down and bring Carmichael back.

SmashMouth 01-08-2024 11:34 AM

Re: The Final TD, DA's Lack of Authority, and the Consequence of Salary Cap Paralysis
 

iceshack149 01-08-2024 01:49 PM

Re: The Final TD, DA's Lack of Authority, and the Consequence of Salary Cap Paralysis
 
It sucks that 99% of the Saints fan base wants Allen gone but it won't happen.

NOLA54 01-08-2024 02:16 PM

Re: The Final TD, DA's Lack of Authority, and the Consequence of Salary Cap Paralysis
 
It's clear that his players don't respect him. It's really sad because it shows how low morale is on the team. Keep DA another year and there will be nothing left to salvage. Do you think Sean Payton might want to come back?

Thirty3 01-08-2024 04:55 PM

Re: The Final TD, DA's Lack of Authority, and the Consequence of Salary Cap Paralysis
 
In My view Dennis Allen should just become like Beklliceck with the media. At least until 24 to 48 hours after the games.

neugey 01-08-2024 05:01 PM

Re: The Final TD, DA's Lack of Authority, and the Consequence of Salary Cap Paralysis
 
Say what you will about Arthur Smith, he stood up for his players at the end. DA won't unless it's his butt-buddy Derek Carr.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:11 AM.


Copyright 1997 - 2020 - BlackandGold.com