Official 2024 Free Agency Discussion

BakoSaint · 02-26-2024, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

https://twitter.com/nick_underhill/s...29233458327563

While almost nothing Mickey Loomis does makes any sense to me, we do have some things in common being carbon based life forms who breathe air and eat food. If we keep Michael Thomas, I just don't know anymore, it would make zero sense, maybe Mickey is living on another planet. I think MT's market value is $4 million or less. He went to twitter war with the $30 million QB. The dude is gone. I wish him luck. I don't buy any kind of suspense here.

Sinner · 02-26-2024, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

While almost nothing Mickey Loomis does makes any sense to me, we do have some things in common being carbon based life forms who breathe air and eat food. If we keep Michael Thomas, I just don't know anymore, it would make zero sense, maybe Mickey is living on another planet. I think MT's market value is $4 million or less. He went to twitter war with the $30 million QB. The dude is gone. I wish him luck. I don't buy any kind of suspense here.

You’ll see more suspense from him on twitter, than on the field.

AsylumGuido · 02-26-2024, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

While almost nothing Mickey Loomis does makes any sense to me, we do have some things in common being carbon based life forms who breathe air and eat food. If we keep Michael Thomas, I just don't know anymore, it would make zero sense, maybe Mickey is living on another planet. I think MT's market value is $4 million or less. He went to twitter war with the $30 million QB. The dude is gone. I wish him luck. I don't buy any kind of suspense here.

BakoSaint · 02-26-2024, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Restructure, restructure, restructure, restructure, restructure... Whats the deal with all these restructures.

AsylumGuido · 02-27-2024, 07:32 AM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

Restructure, restructure, restructure, restructure, restructure... Whats the deal with all these restructures.

It's called maximization of cap value. The contracts are written in a manner to purposely be restructured. We are not restructuring because we HAVE to restructure. We are restructuring because we PLANNED to restructure years ago when the contracts were initially drawn. Whether you like it or not that's the accounting methodology they chose to use almost two decades ago. Over that same period of time only a tiny number of NFL teams have won more games ... Ravens, Steelers, Packers, Patriots. (Source - Statmuse "most total nfl wins last 18 years")

It is what it is and there's nothing you can do to change it. Either accept it or move on to some other team that does things the way you want. I don't care which. But ruining the forum with your constant b!tching isn't going to help anyone.

Sinner · 02-27-2024, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

It's called maximization of cap value. The contracts are written in a manner to purposely be restructured. We are not restructuring because we HAVE to restructure. We are restructuring because we PLANNED to restructure years ago when the contracts were initially drawn. Whether you like it or not that's the accounting methodology they chose to use almost two decades ago. Over that same period of time only a tiny number of NFL teams have won more games ... Ravens, Steelers, Packers, Patriots. (Source - Statmuse "most total nfl wins last 18 years")

It is what it is and there's nothing you can do to change it. Either accept it or move on to some other team that does things the way you want. I don't care which. But ruining the forum with your constant b!tching isn't going to help anyone.

His b*tching helps you remain relevant. Otherwise, you’d be ignored, WITHOUT being set to “ignore”.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 02-27-2024, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

It's called maximization of cap value. The contracts are written in a manner to purposely be restructured. We are not restructuring because we HAVE to restructure. We are restructuring because we PLANNED to restructure years ago when the contracts were initially drawn. Whether you like it or not that's the accounting methodology they chose to use almost two decades ago. Over that same period of time only a tiny number of NFL teams have won more games ... Ravens, Steelers, Packers, Patriots. (Source - Statmuse "most total nfl wins last 18 years")

It is what it is and there's nothing you can do to change it. Either accept it or move on to some other team that does things the way you want. I don't care which. But ruining the forum with your constant b!tching isn't going to help anyone.

Restructuring does have its downsides. It does generally get ugly at the end because of the dead money it leaves after the player is gone or is no longer productive for the team. We carries Brees' final contract a full two years past his retirement. And that's even after Brees taking a literal pay cut when he retired. And those are funds that cannot be reinvested back into the current team. We will see similar situations with Cam, Kamara, Ram, Lattimore, and Demario in the coming years. I know that this method allows the team to keep high level players in an expensive free market so I personally don't complain too much.

I get pushing salary and bonuses into future years with bigger caps. But the final landings feel more like a crash than just being bumpy.

SFIAH

AsylumGuido · 02-27-2024, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

Restructuring does have its downsides. It does generally get ugly at the end because of the dead money it leaves after the player is gone or is no longer productive for the team. We carries Brees' final contract a full two years past his retirement. And that's even after Brees taking a literal pay cut when he retired. And those are funds that cannot be reinvested back into the current team. We will see similar situations with Cam, Kamara, Ram, Lattimore, and Demario in the coming years. I know that this method allows the team to keep high level players in an expensive free market so I personally don't complain too much.

I get pushing salary and bonuses into future years with bigger caps. But the final landings feel more like a crash than just being bumpy.

SFIAH

Yes. As with any other accounting methodology there are the advantages and disadvantages. With this method comes that "balloon" at the end. Total cost remains the same on the bottom line, however. It's not that there are funds unable to be spent, those funds have already been spent in prior periods and are just being accounted for in those latter periods. Dead cap can occur under either method, of course.

Rugby Saint II · 02-27-2024, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

While almost nothing Mickey Loomis does makes any sense to me, we do have some things in common being carbon based life forms who breathe air and eat food. If we keep Michael Thomas, I just don't know anymore, it would make zero sense, maybe Mickey is living on another planet. I think MT's market value is $4 million or less. He went to twitter war with the $30 million QB. The dude is gone. I wish him luck. I don't buy any kind of suspense here.

ML has made some questionable calls recently. Making DA the HC was obviously a poor choice. Then there was the mind blowing decision to retain and then keep PC as our OC for two dysfunctional years in a row. Carrying the Payton plan forward without Payton or Drew was a mistake.

Also, we have not had a good draft in the early rounds since Payton left the building. We lacked identity on offense last year. Oh, and we are always up against the cap.

On the other hand, ML has turned this franchise around from what it was when the Saints were perennial losers with fans wearing bags on their heads. Tom Benson still ran the Saints like a used car salesman who didn't invest in his team who was always one of the cheap owners until ML influenced him to spend money on good coaches and players. We still have one of the best records in the the NFL over the last couple of decades and I give ML most of the credit.

Let's talk about the restructuring myth for a moment. Restructuring a contract for a five year fifty million dollars that is guaranteed is paid off at the end of the contract regardless. ML can spend $10 million each year over five years or he can give $5 million for the first four years and the balance at the end of the contract.

Restructuring contracts doesn't cost more money! It just pushes it into future years while the cap expands each year and we have free money to spend. Yes, eating a large sum at the end of a contract is hard to do while writing smaller checks in the beginning is easy to do.

Also, the cap went up $30 million this year which we got to spend last year. Let that sink in for a moment. Creative accounting equals free money.

BakoSaint · 02-27-2024, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

Let's talk about the restructuring myth for a moment. Restructuring a contract for a five year fifty million dollars that is guaranteed is paid off at the end of the contract regardless. ML can spend $10 million each year over five years or he can give $5 million for the first four years and the balance at the end of the contract.

Restructuring contracts doesn't cost more money! It just pushes it into future years while the cap expands each year and we have free money to spend. Yes, eating a large sum at the end of a contract is hard to do while writing smaller checks in the beginning is easy to do.

Also, the cap went up $30 million this year which we got to spend last year. Let that sink in for a moment. Creative accounting equals free money.

Restructuring contracts does cost more money. If you realize after 3 years that a 5 year $100 million contract is a mistake you might get out of it after paying $60 million over 3 years. But if you restructured it every year and had to face a $40 million dead cap hit if you moved on under year 3, you may be forced to restructure the contract for year 4 to delay the $20 million due, then face even larger dead cap leading into year 5 leading to another restructure. When the contact is set to end after Year 5, you may face a $50 million dead cap hit, and instead choose to pay a backup $15 million, a 'generous pay cut' of much more than his market value. So in the end you don't pay the same you pay $115 million instead of $60 million, and as a reward you potentially block upward mobility for your players, hold roster spots for veterans you are only keeping for financial reasons, and send the message to all your stars that their jobs are safe even if their production drops and to all your younger players that there is no room for them to start because some 30-somethings contract is too big to fail.

Dead cap is much higher, and the spare salary cap space to absorb dead cap hits is much lower, under Mickey Loomis's accounting.

02-26-2024, 03:47 PM	#1
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,328	Re: Official 2024 Free Agency Discussion Originally Posted by AsylumGuido https://twitter.com/nick_underhill/s...29233458327563 While almost nothing Mickey Loomis does makes any sense to me, we do have some things in common being carbon based life forms who breathe air and eat food. If we keep Michael Thomas, I just don't know anymore, it would make zero sense, maybe Mickey is living on another planet. I think MT's market value is $4 million or less. He went to twitter war with the $30 million QB. The dude is gone. I wish him luck. I don't buy any kind of suspense here. Sinner likes this.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,328

02-26-2024, 04:04 PM	#2
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 4,059	Re: Official 2024 Free Agency Discussion Originally Posted by BakoSaint While almost nothing Mickey Loomis does makes any sense to me, we do have some things in common being carbon based life forms who breathe air and eat food. If we keep Michael Thomas, I just don't know anymore, it would make zero sense, maybe Mickey is living on another planet. I think MT's market value is $4 million or less. He went to twitter war with the $30 million QB. The dude is gone. I wish him luck. I don't buy any kind of suspense here. You’ll see more suspense from him on twitter, than on the field. Rugby Saint II and K Major like this.
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 4,059

02-26-2024, 04:33 PM	#3
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,543	Re: Official 2024 Free Agency Discussion Originally Posted by BakoSaint While almost nothing Mickey Loomis does makes any sense to me, we do have some things in common being carbon based life forms who breathe air and eat food. If we keep Michael Thomas, I just don't know anymore, it would make zero sense, maybe Mickey is living on another planet. I think MT's market value is $4 million or less. He went to twitter war with the $30 million QB. The dude is gone. I wish him luck. I don't buy any kind of suspense here.

02-26-2024, 08:49 PM	#4
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,328	Re: Official 2024 Free Agency Discussion Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Restructure, restructure, restructure, restructure, restructure... Whats the deal with all these restructures.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,328

02-27-2024, 07:32 AM	#5
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,543	Re: Official 2024 Free Agency Discussion Originally Posted by BakoSaint Restructure, restructure, restructure, restructure, restructure... Whats the deal with all these restructures. It's called maximization of cap value. The contracts are written in a manner to purposely be restructured. We are not restructuring because we HAVE to restructure. We are restructuring because we PLANNED to restructure years ago when the contracts were initially drawn. Whether you like it or not that's the accounting methodology they chose to use almost two decades ago. Over that same period of time only a tiny number of NFL teams have won more games ... Ravens, Steelers, Packers, Patriots. (Source - Statmuse "most total nfl wins last 18 years") It is what it is and there's nothing you can do to change it. Either accept it or move on to some other team that does things the way you want. I don't care which. But ruining the forum with your constant b!tching isn't going to help anyone.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

02-27-2024, 09:54 AM	#6
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 4,059	Re: Official 2024 Free Agency Discussion Originally Posted by AsylumGuido It's called maximization of cap value. The contracts are written in a manner to purposely be restructured. We are not restructuring because we HAVE to restructure. We are restructuring because we PLANNED to restructure years ago when the contracts were initially drawn. Whether you like it or not that's the accounting methodology they chose to use almost two decades ago. Over that same period of time only a tiny number of NFL teams have won more games ... Ravens, Steelers, Packers, Patriots. (Source - Statmuse "most total nfl wins last 18 years") It is what it is and there's nothing you can do to change it. Either accept it or move on to some other team that does things the way you want. I don't care which. But ruining the forum with your constant b!tching isn't going to help anyone. His b*tching helps you remain relevant. Otherwise, you’d be ignored, WITHOUT being set to “ignore”.
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 4,059

02-27-2024, 12:16 PM	#7
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,783	Re: Official 2024 Free Agency Discussion Originally Posted by AsylumGuido It's called maximization of cap value. The contracts are written in a manner to purposely be restructured. We are not restructuring because we HAVE to restructure. We are restructuring because we PLANNED to restructure years ago when the contracts were initially drawn. Whether you like it or not that's the accounting methodology they chose to use almost two decades ago. Over that same period of time only a tiny number of NFL teams have won more games ... Ravens, Steelers, Packers, Patriots. (Source - Statmuse "most total nfl wins last 18 years") It is what it is and there's nothing you can do to change it. Either accept it or move on to some other team that does things the way you want. I don't care which. But ruining the forum with your constant b!tching isn't going to help anyone. Restructuring does have its downsides. It does generally get ugly at the end because of the dead money it leaves after the player is gone or is no longer productive for the team. We carries Brees' final contract a full two years past his retirement. And that's even after Brees taking a literal pay cut when he retired. And those are funds that cannot be reinvested back into the current team. We will see similar situations with Cam, Kamara, Ram, Lattimore, and Demario in the coming years. I know that this method allows the team to keep high level players in an expensive free market so I personally don't complain too much. I get pushing salary and bonuses into future years with bigger caps. But the final landings feel more like a crash than just being bumpy. SFIAH AsylumGuido likes this.
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

02-27-2024, 03:27 PM	#8
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,543	Re: Official 2024 Free Agency Discussion Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL Restructuring does have its downsides. It does generally get ugly at the end because of the dead money it leaves after the player is gone or is no longer productive for the team. We carries Brees' final contract a full two years past his retirement. And that's even after Brees taking a literal pay cut when he retired. And those are funds that cannot be reinvested back into the current team. We will see similar situations with Cam, Kamara, Ram, Lattimore, and Demario in the coming years. I know that this method allows the team to keep high level players in an expensive free market so I personally don't complain too much. I get pushing salary and bonuses into future years with bigger caps. But the final landings feel more like a crash than just being bumpy. SFIAH Yes. As with any other accounting methodology there are the advantages and disadvantages. With this method comes that "balloon" at the end. Total cost remains the same on the bottom line, however. It's not that there are funds unable to be spent, those funds have already been spent in prior periods and are just being accounted for in those latter periods. Dead cap can occur under either method, of course.

02-27-2024, 01:30 PM	#9
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,121	Re: Official 2024 Free Agency Discussion Originally Posted by BakoSaint While almost nothing Mickey Loomis does makes any sense to me, we do have some things in common being carbon based life forms who breathe air and eat food. If we keep Michael Thomas, I just don't know anymore, it would make zero sense, maybe Mickey is living on another planet. I think MT's market value is $4 million or less. He went to twitter war with the $30 million QB. The dude is gone. I wish him luck. I don't buy any kind of suspense here. ML has made some questionable calls recently. Making DA the HC was obviously a poor choice. Then there was the mind blowing decision to retain and then keep PC as our OC for two dysfunctional years in a row. Carrying the Payton plan forward without Payton or Drew was a mistake. Also, we have not had a good draft in the early rounds since Payton left the building. We lacked identity on offense last year. Oh, and we are always up against the cap. On the other hand, ML has turned this franchise around from what it was when the Saints were perennial losers with fans wearing bags on their heads. Tom Benson still ran the Saints like a used car salesman who didn't invest in his team who was always one of the cheap owners until ML influenced him to spend money on good coaches and players. We still have one of the best records in the the NFL over the last couple of decades and I give ML most of the credit. Let's talk about the restructuring myth for a moment. Restructuring a contract for a five year fifty million dollars that is guaranteed is paid off at the end of the contract regardless. ML can spend $10 million each year over five years or he can give $5 million for the first four years and the balance at the end of the contract. Restructuring contracts doesn't cost more money! It just pushes it into future years while the cap expands each year and we have free money to spend. Yes, eating a large sum at the end of a contract is hard to do while writing smaller checks in the beginning is easy to do. Also, the cap went up $30 million this year which we got to spend last year. Let that sink in for a moment. Creative accounting equals free money. AsylumGuido likes this.
	There Are Two Kinds Of People In This World Being A Rugby Player Is Better Than Both Of Them

02-27-2024, 04:42 PM	#10
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,328	Re: Official 2024 Free Agency Discussion Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II Let's talk about the restructuring myth for a moment. Restructuring a contract for a five year fifty million dollars that is guaranteed is paid off at the end of the contract regardless. ML can spend $10 million each year over five years or he can give $5 million for the first four years and the balance at the end of the contract. Restructuring contracts doesn't cost more money! It just pushes it into future years while the cap expands each year and we have free money to spend. Yes, eating a large sum at the end of a contract is hard to do while writing smaller checks in the beginning is easy to do. Also, the cap went up $30 million this year which we got to spend last year. Let that sink in for a moment. Creative accounting equals free money. Restructuring contracts does cost more money. If you realize after 3 years that a 5 year $100 million contract is a mistake you might get out of it after paying $60 million over 3 years. But if you restructured it every year and had to face a $40 million dead cap hit if you moved on under year 3, you may be forced to restructure the contract for year 4 to delay the $20 million due, then face even larger dead cap leading into year 5 leading to another restructure. When the contact is set to end after Year 5, you may face a $50 million dead cap hit, and instead choose to pay a backup $15 million, a 'generous pay cut' of much more than his market value. So in the end you don't pay the same you pay $115 million instead of $60 million, and as a reward you potentially block upward mobility for your players, hold roster spots for veterans you are only keeping for financial reasons, and send the message to all your stars that their jobs are safe even if their production drops and to all your younger players that there is no room for them to start because some 30-somethings contract is too big to fail. Dead cap is much higher, and the spare salary cap space to absorb dead cap hits is much lower, under Mickey Loomis's accounting.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,328