Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 996277)

Why do you get so upset about people talking about the Saints on a Saints web site? Honest question, why are you here? If the team disappoints you so much and you have nothing positive to say and you can't understand why people follow the team, then GTFO. It's pretty simple. You are the polar opposite of Guido but you won't admit it.

I don't undwerstand. Help a brother out.

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 996271)

At the very worst Derek Carr himself is "good but not great". Why look elsewhere? And that said, you'll never convince me that either Haener or Rattler can give us more than Carr anytime soon, if at all. I can't see either as more than a serviceable backup.

Oh, and as far as we know we already have all the help we need for our o-line in the house right now. Of course, seeing the possibility takes an open mind and some optimism.

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 996274)

Hey, sinner guy, if you're so unhappy with the Saints why don't you just move on to another team? I doubt you'd be missed.

Originally Posted by mapcow (Post 996282)

7.5 wins...??? a half of a win, is a loss..... LMAO

He always admits he is the opposite of the dreamer.... he is a realist.

Cuz he wants a WINNING team, not a mediocre team as such the Saints are currently, at best. The WINNING Saints, went from heavy contender to bottom of the barrel. Soon the Saints will not even reside in New Orleans. Gov Landry will not supplement the difference for a new stadium nor for any improvement of a structure that is in decline.....ironically, like the team :beatnik:

Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 996286)

So, because someone posts something positive about the team that means they don’t want a “Winning” team?

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 996274)

Hey, sinner guy, if you're so unhappy with the Saints why don't you just move on to another team? I doubt you'd be missed.

Originally Posted by mapcow (Post 996288)

not at all.... just helping you understand reality. :beatnik:

chew on this..... yeah, saints organization got it together. of course, the Saints Organization blames the state.. uh.....no.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl...BingNewsSearch

Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 996290)

Chew on an article talking about how politicians and Business people are arguing about millions/billions of dollars? I fail to see how that impacts whether or not I should be pulling for the team to do well or whether or not their offensive line will be better or if Carr can make improvements with a new OC. Is your (and sinner’s) goal to get everyone to say the team sucks, there is no hope, and we should all stop supporting the team?

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 996274)

Hey, sinner guy, if you're so unhappy with the Saints why don't you just move on to another team? I doubt you'd be missed.

Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 996290)

Chew on an article talking about how politicians and Business people are arguing about millions/billions of dollars? I fail to see how that impacts whether or not I should be pulling for the team to do well or whether or not their offensive line will be better or if Carr can make improvements with a new OC. Is your (and sinner’s) goal to get everyone to say the team sucks, there is no hope, and we should all stop supporting the team?

Originally Posted by mapcow (Post 996282)

7.5 wins...??? a half of a win, is a loss..... LMAO

He always admits he is the opposite of the dreamer.... he is a realist.

Cuz he wants a WINNING team, not a mediocre team as such the Saints are currently, at best. The WINNING Saints, went from heavy contender to bottom of the barrel. Soon the Saints will not even reside in New Orleans. Gov Landry will not supplement the difference for a new stadium nor for any improvement of a structure that is in decline.....ironically, like the team :beatnik:

Originally Posted by BakoSaint (Post 996272)

I am willing to watch a rebuild if it is done right. I don't know how rebuild became a dirty word. It's a false premise that we have been 'stuck' in a rebuild and it isn't working. We have been stuck in the opposite of a rebuild since before Brees retired, going all in, maxing out future salary caps more than any other team, trading future draft picks and trading up to win now. Only in this 2023 offseason did we slowly begin to detatch the first brick from the pile on the bad pedal and possibly start looking to order the bolts to reattach the brake pedals.

We are ~$85 million over the 2025 salary cap already in 2024, the most in the entire nfl by just over double with the Browns ~$42 million over. That is a lot of things, but it is not a rebuild. It is more like a financial crisis. Will the imaginary analyst who says we can't get under the 2025 salary cap be wrong? Yes. But, will we have to make some dubious contract restructures with struggling, injured, and aging players? Yes. But finally this offseason we did not restructure more than the 75% or so of key vets we had to restructure. So, that means in the 2025 offseason we can cut or trade players we didn't just restructure, and actually reduce not increase our cap with releases. We could see players go like Kamara ($19 million cap savings), Lattimore ($11 million cap savings), Hill ($5 million cap savings), Ram ($6 million cap savings). If two are designated Post-June-1 cuts the savings may be even greater.

We are not yet in a rebuild. We are in the first year of a sort of pre-re-build slowing of insanity hopefully. If we continue on this route, we could be in a rebuild next year. We could lead the NFL in dead cap in 2025 but also potentially set sort of record for the biggest improvement in future cap deficit ever in a two year period if we continue to make cuts to bad contracts with aging players.

I am not against rebuilds, because rebuilds work. The Bucs could not have won a ring with Brady if they didn't come in with a monster stockpile of salary cap space to sign Brady, Gronk, and a supporting cast. The Rams could not have stockpiled the talent for their ring if they did not start way under the cap. The Lions would not have the talent they do if they did not lose before they one. We are in cyclic league and if you try to buy your way out of ever having a losing season, you will get stuck at 9-8 or 8-9 until your stars get grey hairs on their 5th restructure and then you will lose anyway.

The only way to win without a rebuild in this league is to have a generational QB like Brady or Maholmes, a generational coach like Belichick or Reid, and having both of those to be incredibly disciplined and trade away or let walk very talented players like Tyreek Hill, Tyrann Mathieu, Chandler Jones, Ty Law, etc so that you never get in salary cap debt and can constantly surround your star QB and coach with a good but perhaps not great supporting cost and let them carry the weight without getting in the kind of cap and draft pick debt that create long term problems. The Saints briefly tried this model at least in terms of trading expensive non-qb stars in the era where we traded players like Jimmy Graham and Brandin Cooks but Sean Payton was not quite on Belichick or Reid's level, could not quite hang in the biggest games, and could not do as well to bring in the right people to maintain minimum standards on the opposite side of the ball from his expertise. Therefore we abandoned this model, went all in to win now in Brees later years, came up short, and now need to rebuild.

Originally Posted by K Major (Post 996239)

Detilier makes his prediction ... 8-9. Below average.

If the Saints miss the post season (again), it's probably time to hire a new Head coach.

Originally Posted by leilung (Post 996299)

I get the feeling that DA is on a short leash and if this team under performs (sub .500) then he's history. I'm cautiously optimistic with the changes in coaching and the fresh blood thru FA and the draft.

Originally Posted by Sinner (Post 996295)

Boston… You and I started chatting two seasons ago, when you were defending Dennis Allen and blaming our problems on “mistakes” that you claimed had nothing to do with our sad excuse for a HEAD COACH. That was two seasons ago. You probably forgot. Sinner’s goal is to watch his Saints make it to the Super Bowl and WIN (imagine that) before Sinner dies… NOT to sit back in a semi-coma with rose colored glasses on for yet another season, possibly many more… You want me to lie and say I’m excited about the next few seasons? AINT gonna do it. You can scroll on and shake your pom poms with Quido, or set me to IGNORE, and hopefully your IGNORE function isn’t as impaired as Quido’s, or our front office.

Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 996301)

Pointing out injuries matter is a reality.

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 996302)

Obviously the sinner guy doesn't understand how the ignore function works. Is there any way you can reply to it without quoting his crap please, Boston? Not blaming you at all, but it's sickening just having to see even one of 50 show up as part of a reply post.

Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 996301)

Pointing out injuries matter is a reality.

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 996302)

Obviously the sinner guy doesn't understand how the ignore function works. Is there any way you can reply to it without quoting his crap please, Boston? Not blaming you at all, but it's sickening just having to see even one of 50 show up as part of a reply post.

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 996306)

Just set the guy's ass to ignore, Boston. The guy disappeared when you were away and no one was replying to the guy's crap anymore. It appears the guy's only here to get reactions.

Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 996290)

Chew on an article talking about how politicians and Business people are arguing about millions/billions of dollars? I fail to see how that impacts whether or not I should be pulling for the team to do well or whether or not their offensive line will be better or if Carr can make improvements with a new OC. Is your (and sinner’s) goal to get everyone to say the team sucks, there is no hope, and we should all stop supporting the team?

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 996291)

I see cow patty is posting his crap again, too.

:rolleyes:

All of this replying to their crap defeats the purpose of having them set to ignore.

:bang:

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 996292)

Ignorance is bliss, Boston. Some clowns don't even understand what they post about. They can't glean anything past a headline obviously. :dunce:

Originally Posted by Sinner (Post 996304)

Get your pointing finger tuned up. Gonna be a doozy.

Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 996324)

So I will respectfully give you an example of how your negativity has clouded your objectivity IMO, Sinner. You say I should go ahead and keep shaking my pom poms or whatever for Dennis Allen. I am pretty darn sure that if you go through my post history you will find ZERO evidence of me saying I think Allen is the man for the job or that I want him as coach. I can make this statement because I'm not convinced he is the man for the job. So, right off the bat you have falsely lumped me into the same 100 percent positive, ask-no-questions group of fans that Guido represents. In a recent post in a different thread I got on him about not being able to see the flaws in the team and the reasons for doubt. So, why would you lump us together?

The answer, I think, is because I won't jump on the "Saints suck, there is no hope, let's just moan and stop purchasing gear and watching games until they are good again" bandwagon that you are happy to drive. I can't understand why it seems to bother you when people don't share that view.

As for DA, I will admit that I was willing to look past his tenure at Oakland because living there for 27 years showed me how dysfunctional that org was. While here he's made mistakes, but so did Payton over the years here (and NO I'm not saying DA is as good as Payton). He improved his win total by 2 between his first and second seasons. If he can do that again he gets to 11 wins and a playoff spot. If not, then he's gone and he will be another one of the Saints failed coached like Ditka.

That's just the way it is. I'll root for him and the team to do well not because he's my choice but because he's the coach and I want to see the team win. Pointing out things like Carr getting his back broken in week 3 last season when they were 2-0 and up 17-0 against the packers are relevant facts. It is not blind support or excuses for DA...he didn't do a good enough coaching job to overcome that issue. But few NFL teams are successful when their starter goes down. That too is a fact.

If you want to root against DA just so you can be right you sure don't need mine or anyone's permission. You do you. But You asked for help in understanding. That's all I'm trying to do.

Originally Posted by Sinner (Post 996328)

Thank you for a civil and rational explanation of your personal perspective. It explains a common psychology among many fans, who will faithfully cheer for whatever pile of sh*t that is being offered, year after year. I totally understand that it makes y’all feel good to show continued support for this mismanagement, and the excuses y’all make to give a multi-million dollar (dis)organization a continual pass, for providing a sub-standard, mediocre, if not shameful product at best. That’s what y’all enjoy. Some of us feel that by actively voicing our displeasure, and voting with our wallets, it sends a message to the organization. We may be as deluded as you, but our motivation is to see our team WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS. When Dennis says “Just keep doing what you’re doing”, or Mickey says “We have all the right people in the building”, or Quido says, “Winning is not the goal”, it can get insulting. Y’all cannot keep blaming our failure on injuries, perpetual “rebuild”, giving Dennis or Derek or Kubiak or whoever time to adjust, and not expect some of us to call BULLSH*T. Fans saw this coming well in advance, when Drew was in decline, and Sean Payton was packing his bags… and y’all said the sky was not falling. The Sky fell. Don’t blame loyal long time fans for wanting to see it rise again. Like two seasons ago. This sh*t is getting old. As are we.

Originally Posted by mapcow (Post 996321)

I am not implying...just stating facts. Saints are not honoring their financial obligations, even though they sell out the dome...with a losing team.

Originally Posted by mapcow (Post 996322)

Open your mouth wide... got another load for ya. :beatnik:

Originally Posted by SmashMouth (Post 996320)

Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 996330)

Again with the "ya'll" and pitting one side against the other. It's inaccurate and frankly dishonest. I just said in my previous post that Allen didn't do a good enough job. But are you honestly going to try and put forth the idea that injuries DO NOT impact a football team? That is a simple yes or no question.

Originally Posted by SmashMouth (Post 996336)

Errr... the contractors are derelict with their paperwork and processes. If your contractor were behind on your home build and was comingling funds with other projects, would you blindly pay the man? :bugeyes:

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 996346)

Bingo!

The cow patty most certainly never even read anything beyond the headline, Smash. If it had it would have not responded in such an ill-informed manner. It's sole motive is to discredit the Saints. That's just what trolls do.

:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by SmashMouth (Post 996336)

Errr... the contractors are derelict with their paperwork and processes. If your contractor were behind on your home build and was comingling funds with other projects, would you blindly pay the man? :bugeyes:

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 996346)

Bingo!

The cow patty most certainly never even read anything beyond the headline, Smash. If it had it would have not responded in such an ill-informed manner. It's sole motive is to discredit the Saints. That's just what trolls do.

:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 (Post 996337)

Tone it down. No one here deserves to be talked to this way.

Originally Posted by mapcow (Post 996352)

11.5 million is a huge amount... and of course, you believe the contractor argument, and have first hand knowledge. can you present the paper work?

Originally Posted by SmashMouth (Post 996369)

To you and I , the amount is huge. However, as a matter of procedure the amount is immaterial. I've GC'd my own projects, and had GCs manage others. I have the perspective of both sides, and the experience of having had the displeasure of dealing with real estate liens from BS contractors. It's not up to you and I to come up with their paperwork. It's the media's job to actually do homework rather than mercilessly smear for some alternate God knows what reason. We're just spectators at the end of the day.