Kamara to Payton - "Save me from this sinking ship"
 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl...c42c85874&ei=9

Apparently, Kamara had a quick discussion with Payton after the game and expressed his desire to GTFO of New Orleans.

I wonder what we could get for him, if anything?

Re: Kamara to Payton - "Save me from this sinking ship"
 

Kamara's base salary is just over $10 million. 7 games into the season, probably about $4 million of that is paid and $6 million remains due, which will become 5 & 5 closer to the trade deadline if we wait. Kamara's $25 million salary next year is a crazy number nobody will pay unless he becomes CMC and brings a team to the super bowl, so Kamara could be viewed as a 1 year rental. There is also a risk that if Kamara tore an ACL or something and could not pass a physical for 9 months, his team could be stuck with the $25 million, not exactly sure how that works.

I doubt anyone would pay a 1st or 2nd round pick to rent Kamara. Adams went for a 3rd that could become a 2nd with extreme success. I think we might get a 3rd-5th round pick if we agree to eat Kamara's salary by taking a $5 million or so hit to our 2025 cap (but really this would come off our 2024 cap and not change our cap situation vs cutting Kamara at the end of the year). A late 2nd is not impossible but is very unlikely. If we want the trade partner to eat all of Kamara's salary in the trade, actually saving us money, I think we are looking at a 4th-7th round pick. I still think we should do it. We need all the youth and depth we can get and it makes no sense to retain Kamara for 2025 anyway with a team that needs a rebuild and an aging RB.

I think Denver and Dallas could both be possibilities for Kamara. If CMC and Mason were injured, so could SF. If the price was cheap enough, KC would be interested too, but I dont think they want to spend big to win now when they know mahomes makes them a long term contender.

Re: Kamara to Payton - "Save me from this sinking ship"
 

I wish that had been DA saying that to SP after the game because he knew he was gonna be fired and was gonna need a job.

The players have quit on this coach and this team. It’s done. The season is over for them. They’ll be lucky to squeak out another win or two.

It’s terrible that the likely last season in a Saints uniform (or maybe for good) for some great players like Cam, Kamara, Honey Badger and Davis is wasted.

DA let his team quit this season and on a special night for Drew Brees as well.

Infuriating.

Re: Kamara to Payton - "Save me from this sinking ship"
 

Looking at our cap situation I think Mathieu and Davis remain in 2025 unless they ask to move on. Their salaries are reasonable and we need some veteran leadership. I believe they got some guarantees in return for taking pay cuts last year.

Re: Kamara to Payton - "Save me from this sinking ship"
 

We'd be lucky to get a 4th but I'd settle for a 5th.

He's probably not going to be here in 2025 anyways. Saints need to get anything (he'll be 30 next July) they can get for him if at all possible.

Re: Kamara to Payton - "Save me from this sinking ship"
 

After losing to the Falcons, having a 50 burger put on us from the Bucs IN OUR HOUSE, and now on this occasion, with Drew Brees (God Bless Him) in attendance, to have Sean Payton (the best head coach we ever had) come and punch us in the mouth like that, IN OUR HOUSE… and nobody gets fired today?

The Divine Lady Miss Gayle doesn’t give a flying fck about the fans, or about football.

Re: Kamara to Payton - "Save me from this sinking ship"
 

Its the only reason Loomis is still in a job, he seems to pretty much have free run to do what he wants. Not attacking her personally but there should have been a proper succession plan in place to run the team post Tom Benson with someone who actually knew the game and what was required to run a franchise

Re: Kamara to Payton - "Save me from this sinking ship"
 

Kamara and a few other players started to try and take command of the offense 2 seasons ago, sometimes calling their own plays. Culminated in the last second unnecessary td against the Falcons. Dennis Allen complained to Loomis, and that's why Loomis wouldn't offer him what he wanted. He's gone.

Re: Kamara to Payton - "Save me from this sinking ship"
 

Anything is better than nothing. Put him on the block let his market sort itself out.

Re: Kamara to Payton - "Save me from this sinking ship"
 

The guy has given us his all for 7 years and they are just sending him out there to get beat up on 2 yard gains.

This entire management is a clown show.

I don't think Gayle has the stones to fire DA and / or Loomis.

Re: Kamara to Payton - "Save me from this sinking ship"
 

Cut bait... lose the thug, offer him up with a bonus departure, and get a high draft pick. :beatnik:

Re: Kamara to Payton - "Save me from this sinking ship"
 

Kamara is not a victim. He knew becoming an NFL running back that a 7 year career would be way above average. He saw his peers like Cook and Elliott cast away by their former teams. He saw great running backs like Bell and Gurley decline at a much younger age than he did. He acted out and got suspended. He saw who was coaching the Saints and who their offensive line was. He made more money than almost any RB in his era except CMC. This offseason he did a mini hold out trying to get more cash and guarantees to get paid on this sinking ship for longer, rather than look forward to moving on to a team that was in a window to win. Now he could be publicly demanding trade, helping both himself get a chance to win and helping his team get draft picks for him without backlash, because the teams hesitancy to trade him could still be fear of public backlash, would be greatly reduced if he demanded a trade, making more fans understand it has to be done. Ultimately Kamara took a stand for cash, but no stand for winning, so far.

Re: Kamara to Payton - "Save me from this sinking ship"
 

Well that's completely false, considering if he took a stand for cash, he'd still be holding out.

He's playing with no onward contract as of yet and getting hit with broken ribs every week because he's trying to win.

Re: Kamara to Payton - "Save me from this sinking ship"
 

He didn't take a strong stand for cash but he did take some stand. No stand is missing no practice and making no grievances public. The strongest possible stand is holding out all year like LeVeon Bell. He did something in between, he missed some practice and he expressed some dissatisfaction in the media, fighting a sort of PR war to pressure the team to extend him even though the Saints need to rebuild and he is a 30-ish year old running back who makes no sense in a rebuild.

Playing with no onward contract as a 29 year old RB is nothing special in this league. Derek Henry has no guarantees for 2025. Dalvin Cook and Ezekiel Elliott have been on year to year contracts. Raheem Mostert is on 1 year contract. Aaron Jones is on a 1 year contract. The RB's getting multi year guarantees, other than CMC, are like 26yo or so. If Alvin Kamara wanted a multi year guaranteed contract at 29yo he only had to do one simple thing, get the Saints to the Super Bowl like CMC. And CMC is technically 28yo so I dont think there are any RB in the NFL 29 or older with multi year guarantees of any significant value.

I am sorry that Alvin Kamara is taking some hits. But for the previous 7 years with the Saints, who made him a star from a mid round pick, he took less hits than any other star RB, and never had to rush for 1000 yards. Most running backs would gladly take less hits their first 7 seasons in return for more their 8th.

I don't think trying to win makes any football player an angel. Hopefully they should all be trying to win. Kamara is essentially facing free agency, because it would make no sense to keep him for $25 million he is set to earn in 2025, not that it makes sense for a rebuilding Saints team to keep him at all. Assuming the Saints cut him, or trade him to a team that views him as a 1 year rental, Kamara will be a free agent in 2025. So in trying to rush for positive yards he is trying to market himself for a lucrative contract. That is not a unique generous thing, it is trying to do your job well to continue making salary, something we all do.

The best thing Kamara could do is publicly demand a trade. That way the Saints can save money and focus on rebuilding without looking like they forced him out and Kamara can have a better audition for his next contract behind a real oline and have a chance to win this year. That Kamara is not demanding a trade makes me fear he or his agent think his best chance to be paid above market is with the Saints. In 2022 the Saints pulled the ultimate sucker move and gave Cam Jordan a farewell tour extension that was basically '3 years, 3 sacks, $30 million guaranteed.' Kamara or his agent may think that the Saints will ultimately cave and give him '3 years, 3 yards per carry, $30 million guaranteed.'

Re: Kamara to Payton - "Save me from this sinking ship"
 

I think the time has come to shift the focus away from Kamara, and deal with the fact that the ship is sinking.

Re: Kamara to Payton - "Save me from this sinking ship"
 

He's a soon to be 30 year old RB who's numbered have declined the previous few years. There should be no new contract at anything above paying for his numbers the past 2 years and that's not much above vet minimum. Get rookies and under appreciated players in

Re: Kamara to Payton - "Save me from this sinking ship"
 

While he still has gas left in the tank, he has not been the same since his injury. He used to be able to cut on the opposite foot. He's been able to be an above average serviceable back. If we can get anything for him, we should. We're not going anywhere this year, haven't been for while if we're honest with each other.

Re: Kamara to Payton - "Save me from this sinking ship"
 

I have a somewhat different question but is also an extension of the answer. What will we do with what we get for him? Why does he want to leave and what can be done to address that problem?

I ask because if it is a systemic issue and left unresolved, it can and will impact future Saints players as well the ability of the organization to attract talent.

Assume you fond a magical way to get Derrick Henry under contract... Why would he want to stay or would he be begging off the ship as well?

Re: Kamara to Payton - "Save me from this sinking ship"
 

I wish... oh how I wish... Loomis wrote performance based contracts. The LTBE/NLTBE alone would give us a good bit of cap space as well as light a fire under player azzez.:bng:

Re: Kamara to Payton - "Save me from this sinking ship"
 

The idea that if you don't 'take care of your own' you won't be able to 'attract talent' is almost entirely baseless. If a team literally never extended its own stars in their prime, perhaps it could be true, but letting an older running back walk during a rebuilding year or as a strategic decision is something every team in the NFL has done and would have no effect on attracting talent in the future. Also, if we had Derrick Henry, we should trade him too. There is no place for an expensive aging RB on this team and we need draft picks to find more oline, a WR3/4, young RB depth, a TE, etc.

The 49ers let Gore and Mostert walk. The Cowboys let Smith, Elliott, and Pollard walk. The Eagles let Miles Sanders walk. The Packers let Aaron Jones walk. The Vikings let Adrian Peterson and Dalvin Cook walk. The Rams let Todd Gurley walk. The Saints like Ricky Williams, Reggie Bush, and Mark Ingram walk. Letting Kamara loose as he is about 30 and we are in a rebuild is smart and no talent would hold it against us.

In the scheme of things at other positions the 49ers let Joe Montana and Jerry Rice walk. The Patriots kept their cap under control for a 6 ring dynasty letting stars walk. The Packers let Favre and Rodgers walk. The Falcons let Matt Ryan and Julio Jones walk but were able to sign Kirk Cousins.

Its a business. Everyone understands that. Trading or eventually releasing Kamara to gain a draft pick and $10-20 million of long term cap relief is a good business decision.

Re: Kamara to Payton - "Save me from this sinking ship"
 

Would probably be more efficient to ask what I meant than to refute a non existent point. How a team handles a player at the end of their career never crossed my mind. Systemic can be a number of things and they all impact where a player wants to go or stay, especially someone later in their career like Kamara.

- Pay is not systemic. That's business.
- Not extending certain contracts is not systemic. That's business
- Organizations (system) chances at a Super Bowl ring is systemic.
- Coaching staff (system) and their ability to coach is systemic.
- Medical staff (system) and their ability to keep someone healthy is. Think maybe he is looking at himself, the triage list, and wanting some longevity? Even we have questioned the ability if the medical team. Remember Delvin Breaux at all? Kamara was on the team Delvin had his problems.

To be honest, I am not entire sure you know what you are replying to.

Re: Kamara to Payton - "Save me from this sinking ship"
 

Dump Kamara, he has no value on the team anymore. He straight quit last game, body language was garbage, his energy was garbage, his effort was garbage.

Re: Kamara to Payton - "Save me from this sinking ship"
 

Great so we sign him to a ridiculously priced extension.. perfect.

Re: Kamara to Payton - "Save me from this sinking ship"
 

24.5 million reasons to quit on his team

Re: Kamara to Payton - "Save me from this sinking ship"
 

Re: Kamara to Payton - "Save me from this sinking ship"
 

I’m not mad about it. Two years and he likely retires while still being productive.

Re: Kamara to Payton - "Save me from this sinking ship"
 

I would still have to see the structure of the deal and how much it guarantees to completely decide what I feel. Overall I feel it would be smarter to trade him or release him because we will not be contending for a title in 2025 and Kamara is likely to decline further in 2025 or 2026. It is very possible that Kamara will not be in the league in 2026 just like for example Dalvin Cook is pretty much out of the league now (0 stats on the year) two years after his last semi-productive season.

$12 million a year is Saquon Barkley money. Barkley is younger and more productive than Kamara.

$8 million a year is Joe Mixon money. Mixon is younger and slightly more productive than Kamara though Kamara is more versatile in the passing game.

$8 million a year is also Derrick Henry money. Henry is a little older than Kamara but has been more productive.

$12.5m/yr is way above market for a 29yo RB on a 2-5 team in salary cap hell with no long term plan at QB or HC that needs to rebuild. If Kamara's 2 year $24.5m extension is actually only $8m or less guaranteed the first year and 2026 is a fake filler year for $16.5m or more with nothing guaranteed, it could be 'within reason' but I still think it makes no sense for this franchise where we stand today.

If there are a lot of guaranteed and Kamara has 2026 money guaranteed so that he makes $6m or more in 2026 even if he is totally washed, this is another BS Cam Jordan retirement contract. Jordan got 3 years, 3 sacks, $30 million guaranteed. I hope Kamara did not get 2 years, 2 yards per carry, $20 million guaranteed.

Re: Kamara to Payton - "Save me from this sinking ship"
 

Re: Kamara to Payton - "Save me from this sinking ship"
 

Stupidity this deal

12ml a year for a guy who's missing more and more games, who's numbers starting declining 3 years ago. Amd we know come next off-season Mickey adds void years and starts extending him even longer

Re: Kamara to Payton - "Save me from this sinking ship"
 

cut bait... lose the thug. I was right about the prima donna #13 and i am right about the thug. :beatnik:

Re: Kamara to Payton - "Save me from this sinking ship"
 

Basically my thoughts as well. He's arguably the Saints best RB ever.

Re: Kamara to Payton - "Save me from this sinking ship"
 

I'm not "mad" but this is another missed opportunity to improve this roster.

We lost a center and then our entire team folded like a rental chair because we have NO DEPTH, too many OLD PLAYERS, and not enough assets to turn it around.

Re: Kamara to Payton - "Save me from this sinking ship"
 

I don’t think it’s a depth issue. Everybody around McCoy is trash outside of Fuaga. We entered the season without a quality LG. We had the opportunity to address that. We resigned a mediocre RG named Cesar Ruiz. We could have moved on and addressed that. We knew Ramcyzk was probably done for his career for months. We could have addressed that. We don’t have quality starters for us to start talking about depth. They prioritized DEPTH at cornerback, linebacker, and defensive end instead of finding STARTERS for the offensive line so we can actually see a productive AK.

Re: Kamara to Payton - "Save me from this sinking ship"
 

Woulda coulda shoulda - DIDN’T put a winning team together. A proper offense, built around the tools we have in TAYSOM, AK, and others, built around RATTLER, with protection, would not have trashed our talent with injuries and misuse, and would have blown a lot of our opposition away with something fresh, well beyond the Panthers and the Cowboys. Instead, Dennis Allen’s sorry a$$ is still on the sidelines, and Derek Carr is fixing to limp back into position to underwhelm, if not totally disappoint us. We in a bad way.

Re: Kamara to Payton - "Save me from this sinking ship"
 

Re: Kamara to Payton - "Save me from this sinking ship"
 

He broke it rushing to sign a contract that pays over 150% of market value.

Re: Kamara to Payton - "Save me from this sinking ship"
 

You emphasized my point. The roster is trash. Too many old players and I'll add to that - too many wasted draft picks leaving little to no depth.

I love Kamara. We'll have him for two more seasons. But what kind of team will he be playing for?

It'll be interesting to see how the roster shapes up while we're stuck with Dennis Allen, a treading-water HC who has an enabler for GM...

Re: Kamara to Payton - "Save me from this sinking ship"
 

I love Kamara as well, but let's be honest he needs to be placed in the "too many old players " category.

Re: Kamara to Payton - "Save me from this sinking ship"
 

He's still playing at a high level despite the rest of the offense being subpar.

Re: Kamara to Payton - "Save me from this sinking ship"
 

[QUOTE=BakoSaint;1003893]He broke it rushing to sign a contract that pays over 150% of market value.[/QUOTE

That would be an ankle injury instead of wrist!