Re: The Saints Could Theoretically Give Derek Carr A True Pay Cut Ultimatum
 

'Average deal'...

Did not perform at the level of an average NFL QB.
Barely played 1/2 the games.

His value is 1/4 of his pay somewhere else. :bng:

Re: The Saints Could Theoretically Give Derek Carr A True Pay Cut Ultimatum
 

Seems like Denver survived such a hideous hit just fine. But I digress.

Re: The Saints Could Theoretically Give Derek Carr A True Pay Cut Ultimatum
 

Why would he agree to a pay cut?
He has the team by the balls and if they cut him he gets paid and signs on elsewhere, if he stays he gets paid. I don't blame him, i blame Loomis and Allen for giving him the deal in the first place

Re: The Saints Could Theoretically Give Derek Carr A True Pay Cut Ultimatum
 

Only $10 million of his $40 million is fully guaranteed. The Saints will take a massive cap hit to cut him but if they are willing to take that cap hit, which essentially amounts to going full rebuild for 2025, he is out $30 million. Plus even the $10 million has offset language, so if some sucker team is willing to give him $20 million, we save $10 million more and he is out $20 million. If he signs a vet minimum $1 million deal to screw us on the offset then he is out $31 million. And if he signs that $1 million deal and gets hurt or plays poorly he is done making money. So probably if we cut him he either retires and loses $30 million, risks it all on a 2025 vet minimum deal and loses $31 million with high risk for the future, or he has to settle for something like a 2 year $50 million deal with $20 million guaranteed, loses $20 million this year and $20 million next, and we save $40 million long term even if the immediate cap hit is bad, and we have maybe the best cap in the league in 2027. Its all a matter of being willing to cut him. If we are, we have the leverage, and Carr may be dancing with the stars in 2025 or 2026 or doing survivor island or the bachelor or whatever.

Also there is no way Carr's hand should still be injured in March. If it is, the team should attempt to void his contract and argue the hand recovery was stopped by Carr's own extracurricular activities off the field

Re: The Saints Could Theoretically Give Derek Carr A True Pay Cut Ultimatum
 

It easier to pay your way out of a bad Carr lease when your credit cards are not maxxed out and your bank account isn't empty. Denver had the spare cap space to take the hit and still have money to spend. We can take the cap hit, but all the free agents we sign will also have to be rookies, which is ok with me. Goodbye Tee Higgins, hello Hee Tiggins out of Northwest Dakota Tech. I am ok with it for a year.

Re: The Saints Could Theoretically Give Derek Carr A True Pay Cut Ultimatum
 

Agree with this. That's one of the reasons I don't mind a first time head coach. He learns while the team works its way out of cap purgatory. I just hope whoever gets hired gets a fair chance and isn't scapegoated for a bad season next year.

Re: The Saints Could Theoretically Give Derek Carr A True Pay Cut Ultimatum
 

Sometimes 75% of what you want is not worth 75% of what you want would cost. If gas is $3 a gallon and the only gas station you can reach on what you have left in the tank is selling a mixture of 75% gas and 25% water for $2.25 a gallon would you fill your tank or wait it out? If you are short on cash for a movie ticket would you offer the theatre almost enough money and agree to miss the ending? If you worked for a corrupt contractor in eastern europe, would you bribe a corrupt manager controlling a contract you are bidding on the 3rd most money in order to come in 3rd place for awarding the contract? If you needed to get from Chicago to your best friends wedding in New York, but only had enough gas money to get to Cleveland, would you go hang out in Cleveland for the weekend and send your best friend photos from a Browns game? If your friend paid $100,000 for a night with a 10 victoria secret model, would you pay $60,000 for a night with a 6 from a metamucil ad? If you ran a NASCAR team but your car was totalled and you did not have the cash to replace it in time for the race, would you spend everything you had to get a stock Camry for the race, or skip that race and save up for a Car that could win.

While it costs money in the short term to get rid of Carr it saves money in the long term. Keeping Carr is the true cost, and he costs more to keep than anyone else. He is not worth it. He is watery gas, a ticket to half a movie, a weekend in cleveland, a night with a metamucil model, a stock camry in NASCAR.

The fact is that if you really want to get to that wedding in New York but you only have the cash to get half way there, getting half way there is not a real option that makes any sense. There are two real options. Skip it and save cash for the next thing you want to do, or go to the casino and put it all on black and you have a 50% chance to get all the way there instead of a 100% chance to get half the way there. That is more of what the 15th highest paid QB is supposed to be, a young up and coming QB or a highly proven QB recovering from injury who could be worthless, but could be great, and you take the gamble. It doesnt make sense to pay #15 money for a #15 QB, with a known commodity, when you are in range of winning it all with the #15 QB and our roster. High risk high reward would make more sense for us, and for most teams. Drew Brees was high risk high reward when we signed him from the Chargers. Maybe his shoulder was done, maybe he was mid, but maybe we get a young QB with more than a decade ahead of him. Carr is a known commodity. There are over 10 years of 'average'. We know what we get, though we may get less as he ages. And where that gets us is nowhere. We are better off to gamble. Rattler could be much worse than Carr, but he is a good gamble, because he could also be similar, with unknown upside, and cost a lot less. Maybe in 2025 some much younger QB like Hebert or Purdy will have an off year and a falling out with the coach, and then they are young and have upside like Brees was. Carr is known mediocrity. Why would a team that needs A LOT of improvement to truly contend hedge its bets on known mediocrity of a player in the latter years of their career with little upside?

Re: The Saints Could Theoretically Give Derek Carr A True Pay Cut Ultimatum
 

After Carr's recent comments my view has changed. Just the fact that he made the statement publicly shows he isn't the type of leader he claims to be.

CUT HIM.

Then find a head coach who's aligned with your plan.

Then cut or trade every over-the-hill or over-priced player.

Field a team of rookies, UDFAs and Canadian League players for all I care.

Get the #1 pick in 2026. Draft Arch Manning and rebuild this franchise from the ground up in 2-3 years.

I'd respect that a hell of a lot more than whatever it is you call it today.

Re: The Saints Could Theoretically Give Derek Carr A True Pay Cut Ultimatum
 

If anyone is scared of this approach, Sean Payton just executed it himself.

The Tampa Bay Bucs just executed it AFTER winning a Superbowl.

The Texans. The Bengals. They're not better franchises in terms of ownership or money.

If Mickey can't execute a plan then find someone who will.

Re: The Saints Could Theoretically Give Derek Carr A True Pay Cut Ultimatum
 

A culture change is necessary.

Every year (at least the last 3), the Saints lead the league in injuries, an OLD roster & cap restrictions.

The only change was firing LD Bell (Dennis Allen) the head coach. A decision that apparently Mickey Loomis didn’t agree with :rolleyes:. I mean the man was trying to sign Desean Watson a couple of seasons ago.

The Saints desperately need a fresh perspective on football decisions.

A complete rebuild is required and gonna take some time.