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The Saints Could Theoretically Give Derek Carr A True Pay Cut Ultimatum

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by BakoSaint Sometimes 75% of what you want is not worth 75% of what you want would cost. If gas is $3 a gallon and the only gas station you can reach on what you have left in ...

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Old 01-09-2025, 11:26 AM   #21
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Re: The Saints Could Theoretically Give Derek Carr A True Pay Cut Ultimatum

Originally Posted by BakoSaint View Post
Sometimes 75% of what you want is not worth 75% of what you want would cost. If gas is $3 a gallon and the only gas station you can reach on what you have left in the tank is selling a mixture of 75% gas and 25% water for $2.25 a gallon would you fill your tank or wait it out? If you are short on cash for a movie ticket would you offer the theatre almost enough money and agree to miss the ending? If you worked for a corrupt contractor in eastern europe, would you bribe a corrupt manager controlling a contract you are bidding on the 3rd most money in order to come in 3rd place for awarding the contract? If you needed to get from Chicago to your best friends wedding in New York, but only had enough gas money to get to Cleveland, would you go hang out in Cleveland for the weekend and send your best friend photos from a Browns game? If your friend paid $100,000 for a night with a 10 victoria secret model, would you pay $60,000 for a night with a 6 from a metamucil ad? If you ran a NASCAR team but your car was totalled and you did not have the cash to replace it in time for the race, would you spend everything you had to get a stock Camry for the race, or skip that race and save up for a Car that could win.

While it costs money in the short term to get rid of Carr it saves money in the long term. Keeping Carr is the true cost, and he costs more to keep than anyone else. He is not worth it. He is watery gas, a ticket to half a movie, a weekend in cleveland, a night with a metamucil model, a stock camry in NASCAR.

The fact is that if you really want to get to that wedding in New York but you only have the cash to get half way there, getting half way there is not a real option that makes any sense. There are two real options. Skip it and save cash for the next thing you want to do, or go to the casino and put it all on black and you have a 50% chance to get all the way there instead of a 100% chance to get half the way there. That is more of what the 15th highest paid QB is supposed to be, a young up and coming QB or a highly proven QB recovering from injury who could be worthless, but could be great, and you take the gamble. It doesnt make sense to pay #15 money for a #15 QB, with a known commodity, when you are in range of winning it all with the #15 QB and our roster. High risk high reward would make more sense for us, and for most teams. Drew Brees was high risk high reward when we signed him from the Chargers. Maybe his shoulder was done, maybe he was mid, but maybe we get a young QB with more than a decade ahead of him. Carr is a known commodity. There are over 10 years of 'average'. We know what we get, though we may get less as he ages. And where that gets us is nowhere. We are better off to gamble. Rattler could be much worse than Carr, but he is a good gamble, because he could also be similar, with unknown upside, and cost a lot less. Maybe in 2025 some much younger QB like Hebert or Purdy will have an off year and a falling out with the coach, and then they are young and have upside like Brees was. Carr is known mediocrity. Why would a team that needs A LOT of improvement to truly contend hedge its bets on known mediocrity of a player in the latter years of their career with little upside?
I appreciate your thoughtful replies. Most of us just dump a few sentences in our replies.
I'm warming up to what you, saintsfan1976, and K Major are saying. It would make watching football next year absolutely suck (just like this year!) but worth it if the Saints are smart enough to get the best building blocks for the future.
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Old 01-18-2025, 08:18 AM   #22
 
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Re: The Saints Could Theoretically Give Derek Carr A True Pay Cut Ultimatum

Originally Posted by TheOak View Post
'Average deal'...

Did not perform at the level of an average NFL QB.
Barely played 1/2 the games.

His value is 1/4 of his pay somewhere else.
Originally Posted by BakoSaint View Post
Sometimes 75% of what you want is not worth 75% of what you want would cost. If gas is $3 a gallon and the only gas station you can reach on what you have left in the tank is selling a mixture of 75% gas and 25% water for $2.25 a gallon would you fill your tank or wait it out? If you are short on cash for a movie ticket would you offer the theatre almost enough money and agree to miss the ending? If you worked for a corrupt contractor in eastern europe, would you bribe a corrupt manager controlling a contract you are bidding on the 3rd most money in order to come in 3rd place for awarding the contract? If you needed to get from Chicago to your best friends wedding in New York, but only had enough gas money to get to Cleveland, would you go hang out in Cleveland for the weekend and send your best friend photos from a Browns game? If your friend paid $100,000 for a night with a 10 victoria secret model, would you pay $60,000 for a night with a 6 from a metamucil ad? If you ran a NASCAR team but your car was totalled and you did not have the cash to replace it in time for the race, would you spend everything you had to get a stock Camry for the race, or skip that race and save up for a Car that could win.

While it costs money in the short term to get rid of Carr it saves money in the long term. Keeping Carr is the true cost, and he costs more to keep than anyone else. He is not worth it. He is watery gas, a ticket to half a movie, a weekend in cleveland, a night with a metamucil model, a stock camry in NASCAR.

The fact is that if you really want to get to that wedding in New York but you only have the cash to get half way there, getting half way there is not a real option that makes any sense. There are two real options. Skip it and save cash for the next thing you want to do, or go to the casino and put it all on black and you have a 50% chance to get all the way there instead of a 100% chance to get half the way there. That is more of what the 15th highest paid QB is supposed to be, a young up and coming QB or a highly proven QB recovering from injury who could be worthless, but could be great, and you take the gamble. It doesnt make sense to pay #15 money for a #15 QB, with a known commodity, when you are in range of winning it all with the #15 QB and our roster. High risk high reward would make more sense for us, and for most teams. Drew Brees was high risk high reward when we signed him from the Chargers. Maybe his shoulder was done, maybe he was mid, but maybe we get a young QB with more than a decade ahead of him. Carr is a known commodity. There are over 10 years of 'average'. We know what we get, though we may get less as he ages. And where that gets us is nowhere. We are better off to gamble. Rattler could be much worse than Carr, but he is a good gamble, because he could also be similar, with unknown upside, and cost a lot less. Maybe in 2025 some much younger QB like Hebert or Purdy will have an off year and a falling out with the coach, and then they are young and have upside like Brees was. Carr is known mediocrity. Why would a team that needs A LOT of improvement to truly contend hedge its bets on known mediocrity of a player in the latter years of their career with little upside?
Basically my point in the last few years... if the franchise is going to be average or below average, there's no point in overpaying for a QB. The same result can be had with a less cap strangling QB, even a rookie, and even a later round QB. Plenty of examples we've seen. Thank God we didn't win the Watson sweepstakes. What an even worse disaster that would have been.
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Old 01-18-2025, 02:14 PM   #23
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Re: The Saints Could Theoretically Give Derek Carr A True Pay Cut Ultimatum

Originally Posted by SmashMouth View Post
Thank God we didn't win the Watson sweepstakes. What an even worse disaster that would have been.
I have this thought often. And if we feel lucky, imagine how they feel in Houston.
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Old 01-19-2025, 05:18 PM   #24
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Re: The Saints Could Theoretically Give Derek Carr A True Pay Cut Ultimatum

Originally Posted by stickman View Post
I have this thought often. And if we feel lucky, imagine how they feel in Houston.
Super lucky.
Deshaun Watson trade, revisited
Browns receive: QB Deshaun Watson, 2024 sixth
Texans receive: 2022 first, 2022 fourth, 2023 first, 2023 third, 2024 first, 2024 fourth
Houston received three first-round picks, a third, and two fourths. The Browns also received a sixth-round pick from the Texans along with Watson.

The Texans wound up trading most of the picks received from the Browns. Here's what became of each pick:

2022 first: traded to Eagles for 2022 first, 2022 fourth, and two 2022 fifths
2022 fourth: RB Dameon Pierce
2023 first: traded to Cardinals with 2023 second, 2024 first, 2024 third for 2023 first and 2023 fourth
2023 third: traded to Rams with 2023 fifth for 2023 third and 2023 sixth
2024 first: traded to Vikings with 2024 seventh for 2024 second, 2024 sixth and 2025 second
2024 fourth: traded to Eagles with 2024 third for 2024 third (later re-acquired)
That's a lot of trades. What about the players? Here's who the Texans ended up with when the dust settled on all those trades:

G Kenyon Green
RB Dameon Pierce
EDGE Will Anderson Jr.
WR Tank Dell
CB Kamari Lassiter
LB Jamal Hill
S Caden Bullock
Additionally, the pick the Texans traded to the Eagles and later re-acquired turned into tight end Cade Stover
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/...fb3999ecd07894
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