The Saints Could Theoretically Give Derek Carr A True Pay Cut Ultimatum

BakoSaint · 01-07-2025, 09:06 AM

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profoo...y-cut-for-2025

Apparently Derek Carr has preemptively refused to take a pay cut. Apparently in his delusional mind he is worth the same salary as Aaron Judge in 2025 and LeBron James in 2026, and his family could not survive on only $25-30 million a year so if its not $40-50 million he will take nothing. He is ever so generously willing to restructure, which will would kick the can down the road and make him more expensive to cut in 2026, likely garnering him $50 million then too, and which is especially generous considering the ability to restructure is typically written in to NFL contracts, results in him getting the same money earlier with more protection, and likely does not require his permission.

I think the Saints should cut Carr no matter what it takes. We can restructure many others, have no additions, and make room to take the cap hit. It is impossible to win in the NFL with a mediocre player refusing to play for anything less than elite money as the leader of the team, putting his bank account before accountability. It is also spitting in the face of all the higher performing veterans on the team who did agree to take pay cuts in the past like Davis, Mathieu, Ram, and Kamara.

The fact is that there is no precedent for a QB who hasn't won a single playoff game by the age of 34 going on to win a ring. Sometimes Carr can be an average NFL QB in the regular season, maybe sometimes even slightly above average, his best games typically coming against the worst teams like the Panthers and Cowboys this year, but even if we had the team to bring him to the playoffs, which we clearly don't, all he would be in the playoffs is basically the 40 year old virgin. We are better off going to the playoffs with a young inexperienced QB who doesn't have the 500lb Gorilla on their back of the ghosts of past failure. And in the long run it would save the team a lot of money to move on from Carr now and stop kicking the can on the salary cap.

stickman · 01-07-2025, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profoo...y-cut-for-2025

Apparently Derek Carr has preemptively refused to take a pay cut...

I don't know why, but I am a little surprised by this. Not only did he NOT put up league leading numbers, his biggest fan got fired a few weeks back. I know he said he would restructure, but I am inclined at this point to agree with Bako. Cut him and move on.

iceshack149 · 01-07-2025, 10:23 AM

I'm in the minority for sure but I think Derek Carr is fine at Quarterback. He's average. There aren't many, if any, options for a better QB right now. It's unfortunate but having an average Quarterback is expensive.
The Saints need to address a lot of different positions before thinking about getting rid of Carr and the cost of doing so.

BakoSaint · 01-07-2025, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by iceshack149

I'm in the minority for sure but I think Derek Carr is fine at Quarterback. He's average. There aren't many, if any, options for a better QB right now. It's unfortunate but having an average Quarterback is expensive.
The Saints need to address a lot of different positions before thinking about getting rid of Carr and the cost of doing so.

Sometimes 75% of what you want is not worth 75% of what you want would cost. If gas is $3 a gallon and the only gas station you can reach on what you have left in the tank is selling a mixture of 75% gas and 25% water for $2.25 a gallon would you fill your tank or wait it out? If you are short on cash for a movie ticket would you offer the theatre almost enough money and agree to miss the ending? If you worked for a corrupt contractor in eastern europe, would you bribe a corrupt manager controlling a contract you are bidding on the 3rd most money in order to come in 3rd place for awarding the contract? If you needed to get from Chicago to your best friends wedding in New York, but only had enough gas money to get to Cleveland, would you go hang out in Cleveland for the weekend and send your best friend photos from a Browns game? If your friend paid $100,000 for a night with a 10 victoria secret model, would you pay $60,000 for a night with a 6 from a metamucil ad? If you ran a NASCAR team but your car was totalled and you did not have the cash to replace it in time for the race, would you spend everything you had to get a stock Camry for the race, or skip that race and save up for a Car that could win.

While it costs money in the short term to get rid of Carr it saves money in the long term. Keeping Carr is the true cost, and he costs more to keep than anyone else. He is not worth it. He is watery gas, a ticket to half a movie, a weekend in cleveland, a night with a metamucil model, a stock camry in NASCAR.

The fact is that if you really want to get to that wedding in New York but you only have the cash to get half way there, getting half way there is not a real option that makes any sense. There are two real options. Skip it and save cash for the next thing you want to do, or go to the casino and put it all on black and you have a 50% chance to get all the way there instead of a 100% chance to get half the way there. That is more of what the 15th highest paid QB is supposed to be, a young up and coming QB or a highly proven QB recovering from injury who could be worthless, but could be great, and you take the gamble. It doesnt make sense to pay #15 money for a #15 QB, with a known commodity, when you are in range of winning it all with the #15 QB and our roster. High risk high reward would make more sense for us, and for most teams. Drew Brees was high risk high reward when we signed him from the Chargers. Maybe his shoulder was done, maybe he was mid, but maybe we get a young QB with more than a decade ahead of him. Carr is a known commodity. There are over 10 years of 'average'. We know what we get, though we may get less as he ages. And where that gets us is nowhere. We are better off to gamble. Rattler could be much worse than Carr, but he is a good gamble, because he could also be similar, with unknown upside, and cost a lot less. Maybe in 2025 some much younger QB like Hebert or Purdy will have an off year and a falling out with the coach, and then they are young and have upside like Brees was. Carr is known mediocrity. Why would a team that needs A LOT of improvement to truly contend hedge its bets on known mediocrity of a player in the latter years of their career with little upside?

iceshack149 · 01-09-2025, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

Sometimes 75% of what you want is not worth 75% of what you want would cost. If gas is $3 a gallon and the only gas station you can reach on what you have left in the tank is selling a mixture of 75% gas and 25% water for $2.25 a gallon would you fill your tank or wait it out? If you are short on cash for a movie ticket would you offer the theatre almost enough money and agree to miss the ending? If you worked for a corrupt contractor in eastern europe, would you bribe a corrupt manager controlling a contract you are bidding on the 3rd most money in order to come in 3rd place for awarding the contract? If you needed to get from Chicago to your best friends wedding in New York, but only had enough gas money to get to Cleveland, would you go hang out in Cleveland for the weekend and send your best friend photos from a Browns game? If your friend paid $100,000 for a night with a 10 victoria secret model, would you pay $60,000 for a night with a 6 from a metamucil ad? If you ran a NASCAR team but your car was totalled and you did not have the cash to replace it in time for the race, would you spend everything you had to get a stock Camry for the race, or skip that race and save up for a Car that could win.

While it costs money in the short term to get rid of Carr it saves money in the long term. Keeping Carr is the true cost, and he costs more to keep than anyone else. He is not worth it. He is watery gas, a ticket to half a movie, a weekend in cleveland, a night with a metamucil model, a stock camry in NASCAR.

The fact is that if you really want to get to that wedding in New York but you only have the cash to get half way there, getting half way there is not a real option that makes any sense. There are two real options. Skip it and save cash for the next thing you want to do, or go to the casino and put it all on black and you have a 50% chance to get all the way there instead of a 100% chance to get half the way there. That is more of what the 15th highest paid QB is supposed to be, a young up and coming QB or a highly proven QB recovering from injury who could be worthless, but could be great, and you take the gamble. It doesnt make sense to pay #15 money for a #15 QB, with a known commodity, when you are in range of winning it all with the #15 QB and our roster. High risk high reward would make more sense for us, and for most teams. Drew Brees was high risk high reward when we signed him from the Chargers. Maybe his shoulder was done, maybe he was mid, but maybe we get a young QB with more than a decade ahead of him. Carr is a known commodity. There are over 10 years of 'average'. We know what we get, though we may get less as he ages. And where that gets us is nowhere. We are better off to gamble. Rattler could be much worse than Carr, but he is a good gamble, because he could also be similar, with unknown upside, and cost a lot less. Maybe in 2025 some much younger QB like Hebert or Purdy will have an off year and a falling out with the coach, and then they are young and have upside like Brees was. Carr is known mediocrity. Why would a team that needs A LOT of improvement to truly contend hedge its bets on known mediocrity of a player in the latter years of their career with little upside?

I appreciate your thoughtful replies. Most of us just dump a few sentences in our replies.
I'm warming up to what you, saintsfan1976, and K Major are saying. It would make watching football next year absolutely suck (just like this year!) but worth it if the Saints are smart enough to get the best building blocks for the future.

SmashMouth · 01-18-2025, 07:18 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

'Average deal'...

Did not perform at the level of an average NFL QB.
Barely played 1/2 the games.

His value is 1/4 of his pay somewhere else.

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

Sometimes 75% of what you want is not worth 75% of what you want would cost. If gas is $3 a gallon and the only gas station you can reach on what you have left in the tank is selling a mixture of 75% gas and 25% water for $2.25 a gallon would you fill your tank or wait it out? If you are short on cash for a movie ticket would you offer the theatre almost enough money and agree to miss the ending? If you worked for a corrupt contractor in eastern europe, would you bribe a corrupt manager controlling a contract you are bidding on the 3rd most money in order to come in 3rd place for awarding the contract? If you needed to get from Chicago to your best friends wedding in New York, but only had enough gas money to get to Cleveland, would you go hang out in Cleveland for the weekend and send your best friend photos from a Browns game? If your friend paid $100,000 for a night with a 10 victoria secret model, would you pay $60,000 for a night with a 6 from a metamucil ad? If you ran a NASCAR team but your car was totalled and you did not have the cash to replace it in time for the race, would you spend everything you had to get a stock Camry for the race, or skip that race and save up for a Car that could win.

While it costs money in the short term to get rid of Carr it saves money in the long term. Keeping Carr is the true cost, and he costs more to keep than anyone else. He is not worth it. He is watery gas, a ticket to half a movie, a weekend in cleveland, a night with a metamucil model, a stock camry in NASCAR.

The fact is that if you really want to get to that wedding in New York but you only have the cash to get half way there, getting half way there is not a real option that makes any sense. There are two real options. Skip it and save cash for the next thing you want to do, or go to the casino and put it all on black and you have a 50% chance to get all the way there instead of a 100% chance to get half the way there. That is more of what the 15th highest paid QB is supposed to be, a young up and coming QB or a highly proven QB recovering from injury who could be worthless, but could be great, and you take the gamble. It doesnt make sense to pay #15 money for a #15 QB, with a known commodity, when you are in range of winning it all with the #15 QB and our roster. High risk high reward would make more sense for us, and for most teams. Drew Brees was high risk high reward when we signed him from the Chargers. Maybe his shoulder was done, maybe he was mid, but maybe we get a young QB with more than a decade ahead of him. Carr is a known commodity. There are over 10 years of 'average'. We know what we get, though we may get less as he ages. And where that gets us is nowhere. We are better off to gamble. Rattler could be much worse than Carr, but he is a good gamble, because he could also be similar, with unknown upside, and cost a lot less. Maybe in 2025 some much younger QB like Hebert or Purdy will have an off year and a falling out with the coach, and then they are young and have upside like Brees was. Carr is known mediocrity. Why would a team that needs A LOT of improvement to truly contend hedge its bets on known mediocrity of a player in the latter years of their career with little upside?

Basically my point in the last few years... if the franchise is going to be average or below average, there's no point in overpaying for a QB. The same result can be had with a less cap strangling QB, even a rookie, and even a later round QB. Plenty of examples we've seen. Thank God we didn't win the Watson sweepstakes. What an even worse disaster that would have been.

stickman · 01-18-2025, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

Thank God we didn't win the Watson sweepstakes. What an even worse disaster that would have been.

I have this thought often. And if we feel lucky, imagine how they feel in Houston.

iceshack149 · 01-19-2025, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by stickman

I have this thought often. And if we feel lucky, imagine how they feel in Houston.

Super lucky.

Deshaun Watson trade, revisited
Browns receive: QB Deshaun Watson, 2024 sixth
Texans receive: 2022 first, 2022 fourth, 2023 first, 2023 third, 2024 first, 2024 fourth
Houston received three first-round picks, a third, and two fourths. The Browns also received a sixth-round pick from the Texans along with Watson.

The Texans wound up trading most of the picks received from the Browns. Here's what became of each pick:

2022 first: traded to Eagles for 2022 first, 2022 fourth, and two 2022 fifths
2022 fourth: RB Dameon Pierce
2023 first: traded to Cardinals with 2023 second, 2024 first, 2024 third for 2023 first and 2023 fourth
2023 third: traded to Rams with 2023 fifth for 2023 third and 2023 sixth
2024 first: traded to Vikings with 2024 seventh for 2024 second, 2024 sixth and 2025 second
2024 fourth: traded to Eagles with 2024 third for 2024 third (later re-acquired)
That's a lot of trades. What about the players? Here's who the Texans ended up with when the dust settled on all those trades:

G Kenyon Green
RB Dameon Pierce
EDGE Will Anderson Jr.
WR Tank Dell
CB Kamari Lassiter
LB Jamal Hill
S Caden Bullock
Additionally, the pick the Texans traded to the Eagles and later re-acquired turned into tight end Cade Stover

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/...fb3999ecd07894

lee909 · 01-07-2025, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by stickman

I don't know why, but I am a little surprised by this. Not only did he NOT put up league leading numbers, his biggest fan got fired a few weeks back. I know he said he would restructure, but I am inclined at this point to agree with Bako. Cut him and move on.

Why would he agree to a pay cut?
He has the team by the balls and if they cut him he gets paid and signs on elsewhere, if he stays he gets paid. I don't blame him, i blame Loomis and Allen for giving him the deal in the first place

BakoSaint · 01-07-2025, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by lee909

Why would he agree to a pay cut?
He has the team by the balls and if they cut him he gets paid and signs on elsewhere, if he stays he gets paid. I don't blame him, i blame Loomis and Allen for giving him the deal in the first place

Only $10 million of his $40 million is fully guaranteed. The Saints will take a massive cap hit to cut him but if they are willing to take that cap hit, which essentially amounts to going full rebuild for 2025, he is out $30 million. Plus even the $10 million has offset language, so if some sucker team is willing to give him $20 million, we save $10 million more and he is out $20 million. If he signs a vet minimum $1 million deal to screw us on the offset then he is out $31 million. And if he signs that $1 million deal and gets hurt or plays poorly he is done making money. So probably if we cut him he either retires and loses $30 million, risks it all on a 2025 vet minimum deal and loses $31 million with high risk for the future, or he has to settle for something like a 2 year $50 million deal with $20 million guaranteed, loses $20 million this year and $20 million next, and we save $40 million long term even if the immediate cap hit is bad, and we have maybe the best cap in the league in 2027. Its all a matter of being willing to cut him. If we are, we have the leverage, and Carr may be dancing with the stars in 2025 or 2026 or doing survivor island or the bachelor or whatever.

Also there is no way Carr's hand should still be injured in March. If it is, the team should attempt to void his contract and argue the hand recovery was stopped by Carr's own extracurricular activities off the field

01-07-2025, 09:06 AM	#1
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,433	Re: The Saints Could Theoretically Give Derek Carr A True Pay Cut Ultimatum https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profoo...y-cut-for-2025 Apparently Derek Carr has preemptively refused to take a pay cut. Apparently in his delusional mind he is worth the same salary as Aaron Judge in 2025 and LeBron James in 2026, and his family could not survive on only $25-30 million a year so if its not $40-50 million he will take nothing. He is ever so generously willing to restructure, which will would kick the can down the road and make him more expensive to cut in 2026, likely garnering him $50 million then too, and which is especially generous considering the ability to restructure is typically written in to NFL contracts, results in him getting the same money earlier with more protection, and likely does not require his permission. I think the Saints should cut Carr no matter what it takes. We can restructure many others, have no additions, and make room to take the cap hit. It is impossible to win in the NFL with a mediocre player refusing to play for anything less than elite money as the leader of the team, putting his bank account before accountability. It is also spitting in the face of all the higher performing veterans on the team who did agree to take pay cuts in the past like Davis, Mathieu, Ram, and Kamara. The fact is that there is no precedent for a QB who hasn't won a single playoff game by the age of 34 going on to win a ring. Sometimes Carr can be an average NFL QB in the regular season, maybe sometimes even slightly above average, his best games typically coming against the worst teams like the Panthers and Cowboys this year, but even if we had the team to bring him to the playoffs, which we clearly don't, all he would be in the playoffs is basically the 40 year old virgin. We are better off going to the playoffs with a young inexperienced QB who doesn't have the 500lb Gorilla on their back of the ghosts of past failure. And in the long run it would save the team a lot of money to move on from Carr now and stop kicking the can on the salary cap.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,433

01-07-2025, 09:35 AM	#2
stickman 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Gonzales, LA Posts: 1,815	Re: The Saints Could Theoretically Give Derek Carr A True Pay Cut Ultimatum Originally Posted by BakoSaint https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profoo...y-cut-for-2025 Apparently Derek Carr has preemptively refused to take a pay cut... I don't know why, but I am a little surprised by this. Not only did he NOT put up league leading numbers, his biggest fan got fired a few weeks back. I know he said he would restructure, but I am inclined at this point to agree with Bako. Cut him and move on.

01-07-2025, 10:23 AM	#3
iceshack149 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fairbanks, AK Posts: 4,443 Blog Entries: 1	Re: The Saints Could Theoretically Give Derek Carr A True Pay Cut Ultimatum I'm in the minority for sure but I think Derek Carr is fine at Quarterback. He's average. There aren't many, if any, options for a better QB right now. It's unfortunate but having an average Quarterback is expensive. The Saints need to address a lot of different positions before thinking about getting rid of Carr and the cost of doing so. Danno, Rugby Saint II and WW_Who_Dat like this.

01-07-2025, 08:09 PM	#4
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,433	Re: The Saints Could Theoretically Give Derek Carr A True Pay Cut Ultimatum Originally Posted by iceshack149 I'm in the minority for sure but I think Derek Carr is fine at Quarterback. He's average. There aren't many, if any, options for a better QB right now. It's unfortunate but having an average Quarterback is expensive. The Saints need to address a lot of different positions before thinking about getting rid of Carr and the cost of doing so. Sometimes 75% of what you want is not worth 75% of what you want would cost. If gas is $3 a gallon and the only gas station you can reach on what you have left in the tank is selling a mixture of 75% gas and 25% water for $2.25 a gallon would you fill your tank or wait it out? If you are short on cash for a movie ticket would you offer the theatre almost enough money and agree to miss the ending? If you worked for a corrupt contractor in eastern europe, would you bribe a corrupt manager controlling a contract you are bidding on the 3rd most money in order to come in 3rd place for awarding the contract? If you needed to get from Chicago to your best friends wedding in New York, but only had enough gas money to get to Cleveland, would you go hang out in Cleveland for the weekend and send your best friend photos from a Browns game? If your friend paid $100,000 for a night with a 10 victoria secret model, would you pay $60,000 for a night with a 6 from a metamucil ad? If you ran a NASCAR team but your car was totalled and you did not have the cash to replace it in time for the race, would you spend everything you had to get a stock Camry for the race, or skip that race and save up for a Car that could win. While it costs money in the short term to get rid of Carr it saves money in the long term. Keeping Carr is the true cost, and he costs more to keep than anyone else. He is not worth it. He is watery gas, a ticket to half a movie, a weekend in cleveland, a night with a metamucil model, a stock camry in NASCAR. The fact is that if you really want to get to that wedding in New York but you only have the cash to get half way there, getting half way there is not a real option that makes any sense. There are two real options. Skip it and save cash for the next thing you want to do, or go to the casino and put it all on black and you have a 50% chance to get all the way there instead of a 100% chance to get half the way there. That is more of what the 15th highest paid QB is supposed to be, a young up and coming QB or a highly proven QB recovering from injury who could be worthless, but could be great, and you take the gamble. It doesnt make sense to pay #15 money for a #15 QB, with a known commodity, when you are in range of winning it all with the #15 QB and our roster. High risk high reward would make more sense for us, and for most teams. Drew Brees was high risk high reward when we signed him from the Chargers. Maybe his shoulder was done, maybe he was mid, but maybe we get a young QB with more than a decade ahead of him. Carr is a known commodity. There are over 10 years of 'average'. We know what we get, though we may get less as he ages. And where that gets us is nowhere. We are better off to gamble. Rattler could be much worse than Carr, but he is a good gamble, because he could also be similar, with unknown upside, and cost a lot less. Maybe in 2025 some much younger QB like Hebert or Purdy will have an off year and a falling out with the coach, and then they are young and have upside like Brees was. Carr is known mediocrity. Why would a team that needs A LOT of improvement to truly contend hedge its bets on known mediocrity of a player in the latter years of their career with little upside? SmashMouth likes this.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,433

01-09-2025, 10:26 AM	#5
iceshack149 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fairbanks, AK Posts: 4,443 Blog Entries: 1	Re: The Saints Could Theoretically Give Derek Carr A True Pay Cut Ultimatum Originally Posted by BakoSaint Sometimes 75% of what you want is not worth 75% of what you want would cost. If gas is $3 a gallon and the only gas station you can reach on what you have left in the tank is selling a mixture of 75% gas and 25% water for $2.25 a gallon would you fill your tank or wait it out? If you are short on cash for a movie ticket would you offer the theatre almost enough money and agree to miss the ending? If you worked for a corrupt contractor in eastern europe, would you bribe a corrupt manager controlling a contract you are bidding on the 3rd most money in order to come in 3rd place for awarding the contract? If you needed to get from Chicago to your best friends wedding in New York, but only had enough gas money to get to Cleveland, would you go hang out in Cleveland for the weekend and send your best friend photos from a Browns game? If your friend paid $100,000 for a night with a 10 victoria secret model, would you pay $60,000 for a night with a 6 from a metamucil ad? If you ran a NASCAR team but your car was totalled and you did not have the cash to replace it in time for the race, would you spend everything you had to get a stock Camry for the race, or skip that race and save up for a Car that could win. While it costs money in the short term to get rid of Carr it saves money in the long term. Keeping Carr is the true cost, and he costs more to keep than anyone else. He is not worth it. He is watery gas, a ticket to half a movie, a weekend in cleveland, a night with a metamucil model, a stock camry in NASCAR. The fact is that if you really want to get to that wedding in New York but you only have the cash to get half way there, getting half way there is not a real option that makes any sense. There are two real options. Skip it and save cash for the next thing you want to do, or go to the casino and put it all on black and you have a 50% chance to get all the way there instead of a 100% chance to get half the way there. That is more of what the 15th highest paid QB is supposed to be, a young up and coming QB or a highly proven QB recovering from injury who could be worthless, but could be great, and you take the gamble. It doesnt make sense to pay #15 money for a #15 QB, with a known commodity, when you are in range of winning it all with the #15 QB and our roster. High risk high reward would make more sense for us, and for most teams. Drew Brees was high risk high reward when we signed him from the Chargers. Maybe his shoulder was done, maybe he was mid, but maybe we get a young QB with more than a decade ahead of him. Carr is a known commodity. There are over 10 years of 'average'. We know what we get, though we may get less as he ages. And where that gets us is nowhere. We are better off to gamble. Rattler could be much worse than Carr, but he is a good gamble, because he could also be similar, with unknown upside, and cost a lot less. Maybe in 2025 some much younger QB like Hebert or Purdy will have an off year and a falling out with the coach, and then they are young and have upside like Brees was. Carr is known mediocrity. Why would a team that needs A LOT of improvement to truly contend hedge its bets on known mediocrity of a player in the latter years of their career with little upside? I appreciate your thoughtful replies. Most of us just dump a few sentences in our replies. I'm warming up to what you, saintsfan1976, and K Major are saying. It would make watching football next year absolutely suck (just like this year!) but worth it if the Saints are smart enough to get the best building blocks for the future. SmashMouth and Rugby Saint II like this.

01-18-2025, 07:18 AM	#6
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 39,063 Blog Entries: 29	Re: The Saints Could Theoretically Give Derek Carr A True Pay Cut Ultimatum Originally Posted by TheOak 'Average deal'... Did not perform at the level of an average NFL QB. Barely played 1/2 the games. His value is 1/4 of his pay somewhere else. Originally Posted by BakoSaint Sometimes 75% of what you want is not worth 75% of what you want would cost. If gas is $3 a gallon and the only gas station you can reach on what you have left in the tank is selling a mixture of 75% gas and 25% water for $2.25 a gallon would you fill your tank or wait it out? If you are short on cash for a movie ticket would you offer the theatre almost enough money and agree to miss the ending? If you worked for a corrupt contractor in eastern europe, would you bribe a corrupt manager controlling a contract you are bidding on the 3rd most money in order to come in 3rd place for awarding the contract? If you needed to get from Chicago to your best friends wedding in New York, but only had enough gas money to get to Cleveland, would you go hang out in Cleveland for the weekend and send your best friend photos from a Browns game? If your friend paid $100,000 for a night with a 10 victoria secret model, would you pay $60,000 for a night with a 6 from a metamucil ad? If you ran a NASCAR team but your car was totalled and you did not have the cash to replace it in time for the race, would you spend everything you had to get a stock Camry for the race, or skip that race and save up for a Car that could win. While it costs money in the short term to get rid of Carr it saves money in the long term. Keeping Carr is the true cost, and he costs more to keep than anyone else. He is not worth it. He is watery gas, a ticket to half a movie, a weekend in cleveland, a night with a metamucil model, a stock camry in NASCAR. The fact is that if you really want to get to that wedding in New York but you only have the cash to get half way there, getting half way there is not a real option that makes any sense. There are two real options. Skip it and save cash for the next thing you want to do, or go to the casino and put it all on black and you have a 50% chance to get all the way there instead of a 100% chance to get half the way there. That is more of what the 15th highest paid QB is supposed to be, a young up and coming QB or a highly proven QB recovering from injury who could be worthless, but could be great, and you take the gamble. It doesnt make sense to pay #15 money for a #15 QB, with a known commodity, when you are in range of winning it all with the #15 QB and our roster. High risk high reward would make more sense for us, and for most teams. Drew Brees was high risk high reward when we signed him from the Chargers. Maybe his shoulder was done, maybe he was mid, but maybe we get a young QB with more than a decade ahead of him. Carr is a known commodity. There are over 10 years of 'average'. We know what we get, though we may get less as he ages. And where that gets us is nowhere. We are better off to gamble. Rattler could be much worse than Carr, but he is a good gamble, because he could also be similar, with unknown upside, and cost a lot less. Maybe in 2025 some much younger QB like Hebert or Purdy will have an off year and a falling out with the coach, and then they are young and have upside like Brees was. Carr is known mediocrity. Why would a team that needs A LOT of improvement to truly contend hedge its bets on known mediocrity of a player in the latter years of their career with little upside? Basically my point in the last few years... if the franchise is going to be average or below average, there's no point in overpaying for a QB. The same result can be had with a less cap strangling QB, even a rookie, and even a later round QB. Plenty of examples we've seen. Thank God we didn't win the Watson sweepstakes. What an even worse disaster that would have been. iceshack149 and Rugby Saint II like this.

01-18-2025, 01:14 PM	#7
stickman 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Gonzales, LA Posts: 1,815	Re: The Saints Could Theoretically Give Derek Carr A True Pay Cut Ultimatum Originally Posted by SmashMouth Thank God we didn't win the Watson sweepstakes. What an even worse disaster that would have been. I have this thought often. And if we feel lucky, imagine how they feel in Houston. SmashMouth likes this.

01-19-2025, 04:18 PM	#8
iceshack149 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fairbanks, AK Posts: 4,443 Blog Entries: 1	Re: The Saints Could Theoretically Give Derek Carr A True Pay Cut Ultimatum Originally Posted by stickman I have this thought often. And if we feel lucky, imagine how they feel in Houston. Super lucky. Deshaun Watson trade, revisited Browns receive: QB Deshaun Watson, 2024 sixth Texans receive: 2022 first, 2022 fourth, 2023 first, 2023 third, 2024 first, 2024 fourth Houston received three first-round picks, a third, and two fourths. The Browns also received a sixth-round pick from the Texans along with Watson. The Texans wound up trading most of the picks received from the Browns. Here's what became of each pick: 2022 first: traded to Eagles for 2022 first, 2022 fourth, and two 2022 fifths 2022 fourth: RB Dameon Pierce 2023 first: traded to Cardinals with 2023 second, 2024 first, 2024 third for 2023 first and 2023 fourth 2023 third: traded to Rams with 2023 fifth for 2023 third and 2023 sixth 2024 first: traded to Vikings with 2024 seventh for 2024 second, 2024 sixth and 2025 second 2024 fourth: traded to Eagles with 2024 third for 2024 third (later re-acquired) That's a lot of trades. What about the players? Here's who the Texans ended up with when the dust settled on all those trades: G Kenyon Green RB Dameon Pierce EDGE Will Anderson Jr. WR Tank Dell CB Kamari Lassiter LB Jamal Hill S Caden Bullock Additionally, the pick the Texans traded to the Eagles and later re-acquired turned into tight end Cade Stover https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/...fb3999ecd07894

01-07-2025, 05:33 PM	#9
lee909 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Watford England Posts: 8,875 Blog Entries: 1	Re: The Saints Could Theoretically Give Derek Carr A True Pay Cut Ultimatum Originally Posted by stickman I don't know why, but I am a little surprised by this. Not only did he NOT put up league leading numbers, his biggest fan got fired a few weeks back. I know he said he would restructure, but I am inclined at this point to agree with Bako. Cut him and move on. Why would he agree to a pay cut? He has the team by the balls and if they cut him he gets paid and signs on elsewhere, if he stays he gets paid. I don't blame him, i blame Loomis and Allen for giving him the deal in the first place Rugby Saint II likes this.

01-07-2025, 07:41 PM	#10
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,433	Re: The Saints Could Theoretically Give Derek Carr A True Pay Cut Ultimatum Originally Posted by lee909 Why would he agree to a pay cut? He has the team by the balls and if they cut him he gets paid and signs on elsewhere, if he stays he gets paid. I don't blame him, i blame Loomis and Allen for giving him the deal in the first place Only $10 million of his $40 million is fully guaranteed. The Saints will take a massive cap hit to cut him but if they are willing to take that cap hit, which essentially amounts to going full rebuild for 2025, he is out $30 million. Plus even the $10 million has offset language, so if some sucker team is willing to give him $20 million, we save $10 million more and he is out $20 million. If he signs a vet minimum $1 million deal to screw us on the offset then he is out $31 million. And if he signs that $1 million deal and gets hurt or plays poorly he is done making money. So probably if we cut him he either retires and loses $30 million, risks it all on a 2025 vet minimum deal and loses $31 million with high risk for the future, or he has to settle for something like a 2 year $50 million deal with $20 million guaranteed, loses $20 million this year and $20 million next, and we save $40 million long term even if the immediate cap hit is bad, and we have maybe the best cap in the league in 2027. Its all a matter of being willing to cut him. If we are, we have the leverage, and Carr may be dancing with the stars in 2025 or 2026 or doing survivor island or the bachelor or whatever. Also there is no way Carr's hand should still be injured in March. If it is, the team should attempt to void his contract and argue the hand recovery was stopped by Carr's own extracurricular activities off the field SmashMouth likes this.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,433

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