Is it safe to say...
 

...that there is no Ace QB1 currently on our roster? Seems like we have interrim QB's but not the future of the franchise in Haener, Rattler, or Shough.

I've never been a tank kind of guy but this season is going to be a bad one on offense. Arch? Are we in the running?

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I am trying not to be too hard on Shough since he is a rookie with only limited time, in preseason games, to judge him on. But I really don't see anything to get excited about.

I think Rattler gives us our best chance at winning. And that chance is small.

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Will we be in the running for Arch? Yes if he declares.

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Trent Dilfer says hello. He sports a SB ring. There are others.

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Dilfer (and others) had slam dunk, shut down Defenses behind them. We do not. Not even close.

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Arch is having too much fun down in Austin & he hasn’t played a whole lot of football at UT. Both uncles (Eli & Payton) stayed for their senior year in college.

Probably won’t see Arch’s name appear in the draft until 2027.

I don’t think Coach Moore will end the “Shough experiment” so quickly.

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Only problem with Arch is his grandfather has explicitly stated that Arch will be at Texas for 2 more years (this year and next year).

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Kellen will have this team turned around by then.

Look, I know preseason looks bad - at least not what we're all hoping to see - but things will improve. Don't expect the same results many of us saw in '06. That was a different roster.

Since then, all we've done is "more of the same" and risky draft after risky draft.

Maybe the reset wasn't planned, but it's needed and I'm confident Kellen and his staff can turn it around eventually.

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Offensive line could crush this team again this season. Praying some young talent are able to step up now.

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Let's wait to see when we actually play starters across the board.

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Rattler and Shough are both raffle tickets with a 1 in 20 shot to be franchise QBs, at best. Its smart to take those kind of shots but dumb to watch one highlight reel from college or scrimmage and pretend that a longshot is a sure bet. Whichever of the two show the most, depending on what they show this year, we could go into next year looking at one of them as a starter who need a backup with upside, a possible starter who needs competition, or we could be looking for a new de-facto started in 2026. Even in the best of those cases, where one looks good enough to position themselves as the defacto started for 2026, its still more like they would become the next Derek Anderson, Jake Delhomme, Jake Plummer, Jason Campbell, Jacoby Brisset, Jay Cutler, Kyle Orton, Will Levis, Alex Smith, etc than a franchise QB. Some middle round pick QBs become stars. Some star QBs take awhile to develop. Some lose their first 6 games. Some enter the NFL at an older age after many college injuries. But stack all those factors and what we have are major longshots. Lets just take the shots, enjoy the show, and know that if they fail, we will have a high pick. Thats the beauty of leaving the insurance policy place by not cancelling it.

Arch is unlikely to enter the 2025 draft unless he has an amazing, likely national championship season, where he has more to lose than to gain by playing another year of college. His uncles played 4 years, but still had more to prove their senior year. But if he does win a natty, there will also be the temptation to attempt a repeat. So, its unlikely he will be available. But if your QBs fail and we have a top pick, often there are other QBs who will emerge. Neither Burrow not Daniels was considered a likely early first round pick before their senior year. There is a fair chance someone will emerge. If they don't we can use the pick on a key position player and continue to rebuild. Or we can try to find the right QB in free agency, those please not a 10 year loser like Carr was.

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Not only are neither of these guys likely to be the franchise QB, we are also putting them behind an O line where neither Guard spot can play to even an average level.

It's a recipe for disaster.

How Ruiz still has a starting job is beyond me, he's awful

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What this speaks to is the scarcity of guard talent in the NFL today. As horrible as Ruiz appears, PFF currently ranks him as the 30th best guard in the league. I feel pretty confident that if Kellen Moore believes we had a better option on our roster or available by other means they would be starting instead. And I'm not saying that's a good thing. It's just a predicament that far too many NFL teams are facing today. There have been a number of articles written recently pertaining to the dearth of offensive line talent. Most refer to the migration of the most gifted big men to the defensive side of the ball in college and even at the high school level.

In other words, we're stuck with both Ruiz and Penning until better options are found.

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I don't really trust PFF scores, when anyone can see Ruiz is a liability to whichever QB is back there.

He ended Brees's Career and he'll end up getting one of the young QBs injured too

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I don't disagree with any of that. That's what makes matters worse. We don't have another guard to place back there that is any less of a liability. PFF rankings aren't saying he's good, but simply that all but 29 others are just as bad or worse. Most of the teams fan forums are complaining about the same thing .... their own holes on the offensive line.

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Great input here from Underhill and Triplett. They talk about the importance of McCoy to the overall offensive line play, especially with young QB's. Coverage calls lies heavily upon his shoulders because the QB's simply don't have the identification abilities practiced yet. They said the two breakdowns that appeared to come by Ruiz were stunts from Fuaga's man.

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In case you don't have the 40 minutes to watch the whole thing ...

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QB is actually #4 on my list of worries behind ...
1) can we protect the QB (especially with sketchy guard situations)?
2) can we stuff the run?
3) are the CB's good enough to not become a major deficiency?

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We need better Guard play. That's step one. This team should be built around Kelvin Banks and Taliese Fuaga. Both QB's have added pressure due to our inability to run the football. The lack of interior push is a major factor in that. I'm praying Devin Neal is exactly what he was in a college.

Also, this team needs to push the ball down the field. That's when they seem to be a their best. They look really good when they're just letting it rip. It backs the defenders up and opens up things underneath, including designed runs and QB scrambles. This team and organization lacks identity. They need to figure out who they are and who they want to be ASAP.

Re: Is it safe to say...
 

Here's where Erik McCoy comes into play. Here's a good piece on countering a DE/DT stunt.

Carson Tyler

Typically it’s fairly simple. Good communication and technique amongst the Guard, the Tackle, and sometimes the Center.

You want to see them moving in unison at the start of the play, basically like robots. Their hips should be square and they should be balanced with good knee bend. Think of a simplified goal of gap integrity. Each lineman is responsible for protecting a gap in the line pre-snap and blocking a corresponding defender.

When facing a stunt, if the offensive line has good vision and can see what’s going on, then the tackle (or whichever lineman is initially blocking the stunting defensive lineman) will immediately see when the defender commits to the stunt, make a switch call with the lineman next to him, and square up the new defender who is picking up where the stunting defender left off.

In turn, the guard (or whichever offensive lineman has the responsibility of picking up the switch call) identifies the new assignment and squares up the stunting defender.

A stunt takes a bit of time to develop, when the DE makes the move and cuts inside towards a middle gap. So, it’s critical for the offensive linemen to work as a unit and stay disciplined and square to avoid overcommitting and turning their shoulders too early. The moment, say, a guard overcommits, turns his hips and shoulders at an angle, and inadvertently double teams a defensive tackle, the line is vulnerable to a stunting end who can blow by that guard down the middle.

Note that the center still has a role of organizing the line pre-snap to guard the stunt. As an example, say the offensive line is facing a 4 player defensive front, and the defense runs a stunt with both DEs crashing the middle gap and the DTs taking the corresponding edges. The Center must make a choice - square up the left DE or the right DE. Once the Center picks a side/DE, that’s a 3v2 matchup on that side of the offensive line - on the other side of the line, it’s a 2v2 matchup. Ideally the guards are on the same page and know who has the extra help from the Center.

But, at the end of the day, it doesn’t matter how disciplined the tackles and the guards are about switching their assignments on a stunt if a guard is being completely overpowered at the LOS before the stunt even begins. In this situation, the defensive line is going to get pressure. The offensive line is simply in no position to make a switch to pick up the stunt.

So, like every other concept in football, it’s a combination of strategy, technique, intelligence, and winning individual 1v1 matchups.

Re: Is it safe to say...
 

I’m not sure why everyone thinks Manning is the 2nd coming of Christ. The kid started 1 game last year against a sun belt team and did not win the #1 qb job against a future 7th rd pick. If we tank for a unproven possibility, I’ve finally had enough with this organization. Shough has been on the roster for only 4 months. Why can’t we give the kid a Chance before completely giving up on the season? People still want to give Rat a chance after going 0-6 last year but are done with Shough after 2 preseason games.

Re: Is it safe to say...
 

Why don’t assume Rat gives us a better chance? He went 0-6 last year against technically, even playing with all the backups, he should have slipped up on a win. Shough has played better in the preseason and has only been in the roster 4 months. So quick to give up on him but Rat is given chance after chance.

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I'd say for the same reasons people are pretending like Shough gives us a good chance to win as if he wasn't a mediocre, journeyman QB in college that was completing just barely over 60% of his passes in conferences that aren't known for defensive intensity. Shough played for three different teams over the course of 6 years in college. His whole career has been built on second and third chances. We just got to watch Shough with Olave and Shaheed. We've never seen Rattler with them. They're giving him every opportunity to run away with the job and he can't separate from the 5th round pick of a previous regime. Rookie or not, Shough is older than Rattler. Ratt went 21-10 in college. Shough? 16-14.

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Maybe we shoulda got Joe Flacco?

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I saw somebody say we should trade for Jimmy Garoppolo. I don't see the point of bringing in a vet. We've seen it play out with Jameis, Dalton, Carr, etc.

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Doesn't matter who is at QB, if this offensive line doesn't tighten up, it's going to be a looooong season. Seriously.

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I think it’s gonna be a long season no matter what. This team is in rebuild mode and I doubt that they have a winning record at the end of the season.

At best I’m just hoping they’re competitive and develop some of the younger players that will be here next season.

I’m prepared for a 5 win or less season.

If they do better, that’s fantastic. But with offensive line issues, inexperienced QB play and depth problems on both sides of the ball, this is gonna be a tough one.

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And pray no injuries to McKoy.

Once he went down, the wheels fell off completely last season.

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People are excited about Arch Manning because he was the #1 overall recruit in the nation at one time, his grandfather and two of his uncles were top NFL QBs, and he is a solid 6'4". Yes we haven't seen what he can do at the college level yet but plenty of teams would give a 1st round pick for him now based on the upside and potential. He is no sure thing, and he will have to live up to expectations in college to cement his status as an early 1st round pick, but if teams could draft him now, he would go in the first round unless he plays poorly to prove he is not worth it. He has the most upside of any QB who is not yet in the NFL.

I hope Shough or Rattler shows something this year. I hope its somehow so great that they are the answer at QB. But as it stands, its more likely that Arch Manning becomes a pro bowler than Shough or Rattler. They were both high ranking recruits too, but they have since shown negative things in college, injuries, and Rattlers middling pro resume. Manning has the size of Shough without the age or injuries, and Shough had done nothing by Mannings current age, nor has he really ever had a college season we wouldn't call a letdown for Manning.

Signing a veteran QB now would be stupid. There are many issues on our team now beyond just QB, so to really contend we either need a QB for the future when the rest of our team is better or a QB who can be so great this year that they make up for other issues, the highest upside, a sensation. Guys like Garappalo would be a safety net that might get us from 4 wins to 6 wins, and all that gets us is a worse draft pick. The only veteran QB I would consider is Dorian-Thompson Robinson because if things go sideways, I think he is the best tanker the league has seen since Chris Weinke and could confidently deliver us the #1 overall pick.

Re: Is it safe to say...
 

Trent Dilfer had Jonathan Ogden, Ray Lewis,Sam Adams ,Rob Burnett,Rod Woodson and Shannon Sharpe on the roster.

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Okay, Doug Williams says hello.

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It’s wild that this is probably the first season (preseason game#2) where we fans are pretty much already resolved to having a bad year, THIS SOON…

Y’all gotta admit, it’s probably an all time low. Still digging our front office?

Re: Is it safe to say...
 

Every year we didn’t have brees or Bobby Hebert I expected a bad season. Maybe a year or two with AB I expected more. Idk, it’s kinda the calling card of a saints fan.

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I think that before Brees, especially outside of the Hebert and Brooks years, the outlook was "we are probably a bad team, but you never know, if everything goes right we can be just above .500, make the playoffs, and who knows maybe even win one playoff game." In the Hebert and Brooks years there was perhaps the sense that we could take the playoff games one week at a time, and although we would never be big favorites, we had some chance to go further at each step if we managed to get there and win the first one. Now I think we are back to a team that is similar to the level of the Ditka, late Mora, or pre-Mora years, where the absolute best hope if everything goes right is to sneak into the playoffs with a .500-ish record, hope for an unlikely major collapse by our playoff opponent, and in the unlikely event we somehow win a playoff game, get ready to be crushed in round 2. We just dont have a team that can forseeably contend to go all the way. But I think the difference now is that we are accustomed to more and aren't satisfied with mediocrity, which is good. So the 5% chance that if Mayfield gets hurt and Bryce Young reverts to his freshman form and Penix flops while one of our QBs is ok we could go 9-8, that just isn't that exciting. If we go 9-8 and win the division and get beat 40-10 by Washington in the wild card round, it won't be making the playoffs that we are excited about, it will only be how to build on that to actually contend for another ring. Its not that we have the worst Saints team ever, its that we have the worst Saints team since we raised our expectations above mediocrity, which is good.

Re: Is it safe to say...
 

It will be interesting what the Saints roster looks like after all those players hit the market after the final cut down date.

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Cannot speak for everyone but I'm fine if we don't have a great
"win/loss" season this year.

The rebuild we wanted is here
The coaching changes we lobbied for have happened
The draft we needed most likely just happened
The cap room we hoped for is favorable for the first time in over a decade

IMO, the reasons for optimism far outweigh the perceived negatives from 2 preseason games.

Re: Is it safe to say...
 

Continuity is the most important factor for the offensive line. When players are rotated in and out and moved from one position to another there's no way for the line to gel and learn to operate as a singular unit. The guards are dependent upon the center and visa versa. Same for the guards and tackles. McCoy is the most important piece especially with the young QB's. It's his job to identify the defense and make and execute the right counters.

When our offensive line was the best in the league we had all five players playing well over 90% of the snaps on the season. I really think that is more of the issue today than the personnel.

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All else being considered, the ONLY consistent thing to be optimistic about, is that beloved Saints Fans remain optimistic. 🙏🏻

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I'm not perturbed by preseason. The success of this team will be based on the ability or inability of the starters to stay on the field. Depth isn't a strength of this roster, and we've been watching back ups play with an occasional starter here and there. No Justin Reid, Demario Davis, Chase Young, Carl Granderson, Davon Godchaux, Julian Blackmon, etc. And we already know we need ALL hands on deck offensively for that to work. We won't get a decent read on this team until week 1.

Re: Is it safe to say...
 

^^^^

Exactly!