Peter King

saintswhodi · 11-01-2005, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by BlackonBlack

Bobby Hebert was a leader. The team believed in him and did everything for him. He did'nt have half the skills that AB does but had alot of heart and integrity. Two words that AB has only seen in movies, oh he probably didn't see those movies either.

We cut the playbook in half this year to accomodate Mr. Brooks and he still can't get it right. You can throw the ball as hard as you want but it's the reception that counts. Mr. Brooks has worn out his (reception) and I was being nice when I said a second stringer. The Packers let him go for a reason and it was because he is not smart and has no common sense, hence the reason for the playbook experiment after 5 years. He still can't do it and never will. We should have kept Delhomme, yes I said it. Delhomme seems to win does'nt he?

Whoof, ok. First you said Bobby Hebert was a leader the team believed in him, and I don't doubt that. But also i haven't heard anything negative saying this team (players) don't believe in AB, just the fans. And again with all Hebert so-called leadership you keep spoon feeding what did it accomplish with arguably one of the best OL and handsdown best defenses of all time, we won many playoff games and Superbowl.

Next we cut the playbook down for the entire offense, not just Brooks to eliminate a overall offensive team collaspse, hasn't help the entire offense again offense is not spelled Aaron Brooks.

Next you bring up Delhomme and believe you me, you don't want to go there with me, ask anybody on this forum. The most braggingest Delhomme fan ran for cover when i got started on him. Did you catch Delhommes game against Detroit? Jake just beat a love boat Vikings team minus Culpepper "wow". Did you also know Jake was up until his off week neck and neck with AB for the turnover lead yet again like pasts years.

But like always Jake has a defense that saves his butt, and Aaron doesn't plain and simple. You don't lead the NFL in turnovers and go to the Superbowl without riding somebodies coattail.

Aaron Brooks verses the Vikings:

37.5% completion rate. 199 yards. 1 TD 2 INTs 43.6 passer rating.

Jake Delhomme verses the vikings:

70% completion rate. 341 yards. 3 TDs O INTs. 141.1 passer rating.

Had enough yet?

Aaron Brooks on the year:

53.6% completion rate. 1754 yards. 6 TDs. 10 INTs. 4 fumbles. 67.1 completion rate.

Jake Delhomme on the year:

Now these are his numbers with a bye, meaning one less game played than Aaron is your god Brooks.

60% completion rate. 1677 yards. 13Tds 8 INTs 3 fumbles. 92 passer rating.

Wanna go to last year? Stick a fork in you. This is a losing argument for three straight years now.

yasoon · 11-01-2005, 10:52 AM

Again, I continue to be amazed at the folks who will stand up and deflect criticism off of Broooks.

I do not believe that this loss was his fault alone. His protection certainly could have been better.
The defense played a decent game, and from a points standpoint, they did their job.

With regard to Brooks, he was staring into a banged up D and should have been able to get more done.

- How does he continue to fumble snaps? It's really amazing.

- I had given AB alot of credit this year for stepping up into the pocket and either taking off or getting rid of the ball. On Sunday, he did not do this. How a man who has taken that many snaps can regress randomly is beyond me. He fixes one thing and breaks another...on and on and on and on. It's enough. It's like a whackamole with him. Alot of the pressure he got was from the corners. There are alot of slower QBs who would have avoided some of those sacks by stepping into the pocket and making a decision. Instead, AB goes back to his patented "run backwards and spin around avoiding the first tackler only to be tackled even further behind the line". There is not a QB in the league who does this nearly as much as him. OUR D would sack him 5 times because we always come around the ends and get pushed outside. The QB steps up and has 3 more seconds to make a decision instead of going backwards INTO the pressure. If you can't see this after all these years of watching it, then you never will. AB's pocket presence put AT LEAST 5 points on the board. The 25 yard loss totally changed the Dolphins approach at the end of the first. And the safety was a direct result of the scenario I described above.

- I won't blame him for the pick, because it did look like Devery looked confused on the route. This is called OBJECTIVITY. AB leg humpers might take a look at this word.

- I saw someone mention our porous D. They gave up 19 points to a bad offense, but it's still only 19 points. The Saints should score more than 21 points every week. 17 against a bad Rams D. 3 against a banged up Packers D and now 6 against another banged up D in Miami. Our offense is our problem. The D could use a better pass rush and is certainly not elite, but they are better this year than they were last year.

- Over the course of this losing streak, the team has given up 5 non offensive TDs and a safety, with none of those being kick returns. That's ignoring turnovers on the other side of the field, which calls were bad, etc. That accounts for 37 points. Over the same course of time, we have scored 57 points on offense. Take out the Falcons game and our offense has been absolutely inept during this losing streak Take out the 1st qtr of the Rams game and we don't even have an offense over the course of 11 qrtrs. Sit on that...think about it. That's on the QB and the coaching staff.

APSaintsfan · 11-01-2005, 03:49 PM

It goes to the point that when your defense is on the field all the time then you are going to lose games. they can only go at it for so long. They are doing a lot better this year. Just need some changes????

CheramieIII · 11-01-2005, 08:16 PM

Hey Whodi, thanks. I don't think BOB is ever going to let it go, oh well. Yasoon, I did'nt overlook you, thanks. Everyone please help BOB understand that the first sign of insanity is when you keep doing the same thing over and over again and expect the same result.

Thanks again Mr. Stat Man.

Saint_LB · 11-02-2005, 08:14 AM

AB is not the answer for us at QB, and I have been calling for his replacement for quite some time now. However, with that being said, I have a comment regarding his back-pedaling. This is something AB use to do a lot of, then toned it down for a while, and now it is back. I think that some of the same people that are criticizing him for doing this have in the past stated that AB needs to run the ball more often. The problem is that AB is a step or two slower than he thinks he is. It seems to me that at some point in time he realized this and quit trying, but lately he has had a little success scrambling and moving the sticks on occasions, and coupled with the fact that people are encouraging him to run more often like he use to do, maybe he has regressed into thinking he is fast enough to escape, and is learning all over again that he is not.

Euphoria · 11-02-2005, 10:59 AM

Bobby Hebert was the reason we were good those years... as I recalled he didn't play on that Defense.

lynwood · 11-02-2005, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by BlackonBlack

Hey Whodi, thanks. I don't think BOB is ever going to let it go, oh well. Yasoon, I did'nt overlook you, thanks. Everyone please help BOB understand that the first sign of insanity is when you keep doing the same thing over and over again and expect the same result.

Thanks again Mr. Stat Man.

I think you meant doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. And that's a saying I use. That's why we have been a losing team for 38 years, fans still haven't gotten what's right and what's wrong yet.

Insanity, is criticizing 1 in a team sport, insanity is when your team has sucked for 38 years, is sucking now and will suck after the present QB is long gone. Thinking that things will be different, that's insane!

Hey what if we were talking about Jason Craft and his Blown coverages.

lynwood · 11-02-2005, 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by BlackonBlack

Hey what if we were talking about Jason Craft and his Blown coverages.

Jason Craft is not being talked about, but even if he were it would only be him. He wouldn't be said to be the destruction of the entire team. Craft blows a coverage is not going to be blamed on the offense and defense or special teams poor play like Brooks is claimed to be.

No he would be said to be getting beat and having TD's scored on HIM. The talk about AB is that he does stupid things, runs backwards, throws into coverage, behind receivers and into the ground, has no touch passes and no pocket presence. Brooks puts the defense in short field protection. No one says he is the destructoin of the entire team but he sure isn't helping either. He is supposed to be the leader, the guy making plays, the guy using his brain. Craft hasn't been with us for 5 years and i'm ready to see him go and brooks has been with us for 5 years and he's past time to go. My point being that we are calling out an individual that is making individual mistakes on a contant basis and that isn't going to change. We have 5 years of proof for that.

By the way you are the one that blames the defense for not scoring points for us to win which is giving the blame to the defense and not brooks. So your point about craft, well is just pointless.

lynwood · 11-02-2005, 10:25 PM

It will be the same only if bowman becomes the starter. But to think that the defense needs to score becuse your QB(leader) can't make smart plays and laying the blame on them for not putting points on the board is just well.... B.S.

xan · 11-03-2005, 12:02 AM

The one thing about the "Craft v Brooks" argument that seems to get lost is Haslett has taken Craft out and inserted Thomas, and Craft is now playing sparingly. He's not done that with Brooks. The coaching staff is as much to blame over who is on the field as the players who make the mistakes. It may be that the coaching staff has absolutely NO confidence in Bouman, he simply exists on the roster so as to not threaten what little emotional balance the QB staff has and to not actually compete. It may be that the best chance the Saints have today of winning is with Brooks, by design. I'd love to give my banker a pair of those beer goggles so I can get a bigger house.

11-01-2005, 10:29 AM	#21
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Peter King Originally Posted by BlackonBlack Bobby Hebert was a leader. The team believed in him and did everything for him. He did'nt have half the skills that AB does but had alot of heart and integrity. Two words that AB has only seen in movies, oh he probably didn't see those movies either. We cut the playbook in half this year to accomodate Mr. Brooks and he still can't get it right. You can throw the ball as hard as you want but it's the reception that counts. Mr. Brooks has worn out his (reception) and I was being nice when I said a second stringer. The Packers let him go for a reason and it was because he is not smart and has no common sense, hence the reason for the playbook experiment after 5 years. He still can't do it and never will. We should have kept Delhomme, yes I said it. Delhomme seems to win does'nt he? Whoof, ok. First you said Bobby Hebert was a leader the team believed in him, and I don't doubt that. But also i haven't heard anything negative saying this team (players) don't believe in AB, just the fans. And again with all Hebert so-called leadership you keep spoon feeding what did it accomplish with arguably one of the best OL and handsdown best defenses of all time, we won many playoff games and Superbowl. Next we cut the playbook down for the entire offense, not just Brooks to eliminate a overall offensive team collaspse, hasn't help the entire offense again offense is not spelled Aaron Brooks. Next you bring up Delhomme and believe you me, you don't want to go there with me, ask anybody on this forum. The most braggingest Delhomme fan ran for cover when i got started on him. Did you catch Delhommes game against Detroit? Jake just beat a love boat Vikings team minus Culpepper "wow". Did you also know Jake was up until his off week neck and neck with AB for the turnover lead yet again like pasts years. But like always Jake has a defense that saves his butt, and Aaron doesn't plain and simple. You don't lead the NFL in turnovers and go to the Superbowl without riding somebodies coattail. Aaron Brooks verses the Vikings: 37.5% completion rate. 199 yards. 1 TD 2 INTs 43.6 passer rating. Jake Delhomme verses the vikings: 70% completion rate. 341 yards. 3 TDs O INTs. 141.1 passer rating. Had enough yet? Aaron Brooks on the year: 53.6% completion rate. 1754 yards. 6 TDs. 10 INTs. 4 fumbles. 67.1 completion rate. Jake Delhomme on the year: Now these are his numbers with a bye, meaning one less game played than Aaron is your god Brooks. 60% completion rate. 1677 yards. 13Tds 8 INTs 3 fumbles. 92 passer rating. Wanna go to last year? Stick a fork in you. This is a losing argument for three straight years now.

11-01-2005, 10:52 AM	#22
yasoon 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 594	Again, I continue to be amazed at the folks who will stand up and deflect criticism off of Broooks. I do not believe that this loss was his fault alone. His protection certainly could have been better. The defense played a decent game, and from a points standpoint, they did their job. With regard to Brooks, he was staring into a banged up D and should have been able to get more done. - How does he continue to fumble snaps? It's really amazing. - I had given AB alot of credit this year for stepping up into the pocket and either taking off or getting rid of the ball. On Sunday, he did not do this. How a man who has taken that many snaps can regress randomly is beyond me. He fixes one thing and breaks another...on and on and on and on. It's enough. It's like a whackamole with him. Alot of the pressure he got was from the corners. There are alot of slower QBs who would have avoided some of those sacks by stepping into the pocket and making a decision. Instead, AB goes back to his patented "run backwards and spin around avoiding the first tackler only to be tackled even further behind the line". There is not a QB in the league who does this nearly as much as him. OUR D would sack him 5 times because we always come around the ends and get pushed outside. The QB steps up and has 3 more seconds to make a decision instead of going backwards INTO the pressure. If you can't see this after all these years of watching it, then you never will. AB's pocket presence put AT LEAST 5 points on the board. The 25 yard loss totally changed the Dolphins approach at the end of the first. And the safety was a direct result of the scenario I described above. - I won't blame him for the pick, because it did look like Devery looked confused on the route. This is called OBJECTIVITY. AB leg humpers might take a look at this word. - I saw someone mention our porous D. They gave up 19 points to a bad offense, but it's still only 19 points. The Saints should score more than 21 points every week. 17 against a bad Rams D. 3 against a banged up Packers D and now 6 against another banged up D in Miami. Our offense is our problem. The D could use a better pass rush and is certainly not elite, but they are better this year than they were last year. - Over the course of this losing streak, the team has given up 5 non offensive TDs and a safety, with none of those being kick returns. That's ignoring turnovers on the other side of the field, which calls were bad, etc. That accounts for 37 points. Over the same course of time, we have scored 57 points on offense. Take out the Falcons game and our offense has been absolutely inept during this losing streak Take out the 1st qtr of the Rams game and we don't even have an offense over the course of 11 qrtrs. Sit on that...think about it. That's on the QB and the coaching staff.
yasoon 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 594

11-02-2005, 08:14 AM	#25
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894	AB is not the answer for us at QB, and I have been calling for his replacement for quite some time now. However, with that being said, I have a comment regarding his back-pedaling. This is something AB use to do a lot of, then toned it down for a while, and now it is back. I think that some of the same people that are criticizing him for doing this have in the past stated that AB needs to run the ball more often. The problem is that AB is a step or two slower than he thinks he is. It seems to me that at some point in time he realized this and quit trying, but lately he has had a little success scrambling and moving the sticks on occasions, and coupled with the fact that people are encouraging him to run more often like he use to do, maybe he has regressed into thinking he is fast enough to escape, and is learning all over again that he is not.
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894

11-02-2005, 08:55 PM	#27
lynwood 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Hockley, Tx Posts: 1,515	Originally Posted by BlackonBlack Hey Whodi, thanks. I don't think BOB is ever going to let it go, oh well. Yasoon, I did'nt overlook you, thanks. Everyone please help BOB understand that the first sign of insanity is when you keep doing the same thing over and over again and expect the same result. Thanks again Mr. Stat Man. I think you meant doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. And that's a saying I use. That's why we have been a losing team for 38 years, fans still haven't gotten what's right and what's wrong yet. Insanity, is criticizing 1 in a team sport, insanity is when your team has sucked for 38 years, is sucking now and will suck after the present QB is long gone. Thinking that things will be different, that's insane! Hey what if we were talking about Jason Craft and his Blown coverages.

11-02-2005, 09:55 PM	#28
lynwood 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Hockley, Tx Posts: 1,515	Originally Posted by BlackonBlack Hey what if we were talking about Jason Craft and his Blown coverages. Jason Craft is not being talked about, but even if he were it would only be him. He wouldn't be said to be the destruction of the entire team. Craft blows a coverage is not going to be blamed on the offense and defense or special teams poor play like Brooks is claimed to be. No he would be said to be getting beat and having TD's scored on HIM. The talk about AB is that he does stupid things, runs backwards, throws into coverage, behind receivers and into the ground, has no touch passes and no pocket presence. Brooks puts the defense in short field protection. No one says he is the destructoin of the entire team but he sure isn't helping either. He is supposed to be the leader, the guy making plays, the guy using his brain. Craft hasn't been with us for 5 years and i'm ready to see him go and brooks has been with us for 5 years and he's past time to go. My point being that we are calling out an individual that is making individual mistakes on a contant basis and that isn't going to change. We have 5 years of proof for that. By the way you are the one that blames the defense for not scoring points for us to win which is giving the blame to the defense and not brooks. So your point about craft, well is just pointless.

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11-01-2005, 03:49 PM	#23
APSaintsfan 100th Post Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Concord, NC Posts: 119	It goes to the point that when your defense is on the field all the time then you are going to lose games. they can only go at it for so long. They are doing a lot better this year. Just need some changes????

11-01-2005, 08:16 PM	#24
CheramieIII Fan Since 1967 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Nomad Posts: 7,487 Blog Entries: 3	Hey Whodi, thanks. I don't think BOB is ever going to let it go, oh well. Yasoon, I did'nt overlook you, thanks. Everyone please help BOB understand that the first sign of insanity is when you keep doing the same thing over and over again and expect the same result. Thanks again Mr. Stat Man.

11-02-2005, 10:59 AM	#26
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Bobby Hebert was the reason we were good those years... as I recalled he didn't play on that Defense.

11-02-2005, 10:25 PM	#29
lynwood 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Hockley, Tx Posts: 1,515	It will be the same only if bowman becomes the starter. But to think that the defense needs to score becuse your QB(leader) can't make smart plays and laying the blame on them for not putting points on the board is just well.... B.S.

11-03-2005, 12:02 AM	#30
xan Professor Crab and Site Donor 2014 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Princeton Posts: 3,369 Blog Entries: 34	The one thing about the "Craft v Brooks" argument that seems to get lost is Haslett has taken Craft out and inserted Thomas, and Craft is now playing sparingly. He's not done that with Brooks. The coaching staff is as much to blame over who is on the field as the players who make the mistakes. It may be that the coaching staff has absolutely NO confidence in Bouman, he simply exists on the roster so as to not threaten what little emotional balance the QB staff has and to not actually compete. It may be that the best chance the Saints have today of winning is with Brooks, by design. I'd love to give my banker a pair of those beer goggles so I can get a bigger house.