Coaching

4saintspirit · 11-09-2005, 04:04 PM

I did not mean to say that AB would all of a sudden stop making all of the bonehead plays -- but with his arm it is possible that with a real coach -- who would not coddle him, that would make him study the game, and maybe even help him grow into a leader that he may be an acceptable QB while we built out the rest of the team.

RDOX · 11-09-2005, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by 4saintspirit

I did not mean to say that AB would all of a sudden stop making all of the bonehead plays -- but with his arm it is possible that with a real coach -- who would not coddle him, that would make him study the game, and maybe even help him grow into a leader that he may be an acceptable QB while we built out the rest of the team.

4saints!!

Turk Schoernert (sp) is one of the toughest, hardnosed qb coaches in the league. Sheppard has dumbed down the playbook to kindergarten level, and still we have bonehead plays. If you want a comparison, look at Carson Palmer, or even David Carr. Young, inexpexperienced, etc., yet doing fairly well in the learning curve of the NFL. Vick, Leftwich, Rothleisberger, are three more that come to mind. If you look at these folks in comparison to Brooks, you see that Brooks has had 6 years as opposed to 2-3 by these others and he STILL doesn't come up to the same measure as they do. I watched Leftwich get killed Sunday and he came back and won the game. Batch didn't do badly, yet with Brooks we stumble and bumble along.

4saintspirit · 11-09-2005, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by RDOX

Originally Posted by 4saintspirit

I did not mean to say that AB would all of a sudden stop making all of the bonehead plays -- but with his arm it is possible that with a real coach -- who would not coddle him, that would make him study the game, and maybe even help him grow into a leader that he may be an acceptable QB while we built out the rest of the team.

4saints!!

Turk Schoernert (sp) is one of the toughest, hardnosed qb coaches in the league. Sheppard has dumbed down the playbook to kindergarten level, and still we have bonehead plays. If you want a comparison, look at Carson Palmer, or even David Carr. Young, inexpexperienced, etc., yet doing fairly well in the learning curve of the NFL. Vick, Leftwich, Rothleisberger, are three more that come to mind. If you look at these folks in comparison to Brooks, you see that Brooks has had 6 years as opposed to 2-3 by these others and he STILL doesn't come up to the same measure as they do. I watched Leftwich get killed Sunday and he came back and won the game. Batch didn't do badly, yet with Brooks we stumble and bumble along.

Believe me -- I am a Brooks basher by heart. But he has had 6 years under Haz -- I look at some excellent players who come to New orleans and never progress -- who slack off -- all because of our coaching IMO. I do not think Brooks has the intelligence to ever be a leader like either of the Mannings -- but he has the physical skills as good as any of the QBs in this league. And by the way -- they did not simplify the playbook -- they simplified how the plays were called. But back to my point -- if we get rid of Haz there is no reason to immediately get rid of Brooks (unless there is some good salary cap reasons) A new coach will bench AB if he doesn't produce -- that is my point

RDOX · 11-09-2005, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by 4saintspirit

Originally Posted by RDOX

Originally Posted by 4saintspirit

I did not mean to say that AB would all of a sudden stop making all of the bonehead plays -- but with his arm it is possible that with a real coach -- who would not coddle him, that would make him study the game, and maybe even help him grow into a leader that he may be an acceptable QB while we built out the rest of the team.

4saints!!

Turk Schoernert (sp) is one of the toughest, hardnosed qb coaches in the league. Sheppard has dumbed down the playbook to kindergarten level, and still we have bonehead plays. If you want a comparison, look at Carson Palmer, or even David Carr. Young, inexpexperienced, etc., yet doing fairly well in the learning curve of the NFL. Vick, Leftwich, Rothleisberger, are three more that come to mind. If you look at these folks in comparison to Brooks, you see that Brooks has had 6 years as opposed to 2-3 by these others and he STILL doesn't come up to the same measure as they do. I watched Leftwich get killed Sunday and he came back and won the game. Batch didn't do badly, yet with Brooks we stumble and bumble along.

Believe me -- I am a Brooks basher by heart. But he has had 6 years under Haz -- I look at some excellent players who come to New orleans and never progress -- who slack off -- all because of our coaching IMO. I do not think Brooks has the intelligence to ever be a leader like either of the Mannings -- but he has the physical skills as good as any of the QBs in this league. And by the way -- they did not simplify the playbook -- they simplified how the plays were called. But back to my point -- if we get rid of Haz there is no reason to immediately get rid of Brooks (unless there is some good salary cap reasons) A new coach will bench AB if he doesn't produce -- that is my point

Well put!

I agree that we need new blood in the coaching staff, and we need to figure out who we could get in Free AGenacy to push Brooks. I'd like to see Harrington or Brees because they have some NFL experience under their belt and would only have to learn the playbook here, but would have knowledge of the game as play in the NFL.

One thing that I seriously question is who would you get as a coaching staff, if you don't rid yourself of the Front Office Cancer? Cause if LOOMBOOM stays, whoever is on the field is hosed.

Euphoria · 11-09-2005, 05:21 PM

When Brook took the reigns from Blake, Brooks became the next coming of Jesus... then he still had some toolage from the Packers and a bit going for him, poor coaching and he went down and down...

saintswhodi · 11-09-2005, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by Euphoria

When Brook took the reigns from Blake, Brooks became the next coming of Jesus... then he still had some toolage from the Packers and a bit going for him, poor coaching and he went down and down...

That's just sad. Brooks was 3-3 after he took over for Blake. As far as I know, Jesus was perfect. I am with RDOX, coaching can't explain away EVERYTHING about Brooks. If it's all coaching, how does Horn make the pro bowl 4 out fo 5 years? How does Deuce make a pro bowl? LeCharles? I agree thhat our coaches are VERY poor at developing players, but at some point, a player can take it upon himself to grow. Anyone think the coaches are forcing Peyton to go out before the game and throw with his receivers? Anyonethink the coaches forced McNabb to go to Arizona with TO when he first got there to work out together? Anyone think if Brooks told the coaches he wanted to look at still during the game they would say no? The coaches may not have developed AB, but he damn sure has not taken it upon himself to get better either. I NEVER hear of AB working with any of our receivers during the offseason. NEVER. I hear about some stupid ass leadership classes he may have taken though. It has been said numerous times there is a learning curve with young QBs, and generally at about age 28-30 they are who they are gonna be. Well, AB is almost 30, and he is damaged goods. No matter who is the coach, he needs to go. I don't wanna be half way through next year and be having the same discussions. Enough is enough.

saintswhodi · 11-09-2005, 05:50 PM

What team that's losing has a player that looks the bomb on it?

Go look at Brian Griese from last year's Bucs. They were 5-11. In only 10 starts, he had 20 TDs to 12 INTs. Completed almost 70% of his passes. And had a 90 something passer rating.

Last year's Panthers. Lose everyone to injuury, Jake Delhomme throws 29 TDs. To only 14 INTs. 2 to one ratio.

Need more?

RDOX · 11-09-2005, 05:55 PM

BonB!

What is the saddest part of all of the whole discussion is that the main culprit of this saga constantly gets a pass. I fault Loomis more than any of the other members of this organization. When Finks left, Mora fell apart until he quit in mid season. Why? Cause his GM wasn't worth a bucket of warm spit. This is proven out in Kansas City where Carl Peterson has Kuhariak by the shorts and Peterson and Vermeil make the big decisions. Loomis is in the driver's seat and I'd bet the car note that he's making most of the personnel decisions based on what he knows best, CAP ROOM. I'm for Loomis being the contract negotiator and cap man, because he's great at that. But he's not strong on football operations. Hazlett is running around looking stupid based on Loomis' personnel evaluations. Why did we get another defensive end in Will Smith when we BADLY need a shut down linebacker? This kind of stupidity makes the defense look bad before they hit the field, and Venturi shoulders the blame for trying to make chicken salad out of chicken feathers.
We badly need to clean house, front office, and coaching staff now. They are all contaminated with Loomboomitis.

saintswhodi · 11-09-2005, 07:30 PM

Originally Posted by BlackonBlack

Aron Brooks 2001 put up great numbers Probowl alternate in 2001-2002.

So you just disproved your own point? Fine by me.

saintswhodi · 11-09-2005, 07:32 PM

Horn had who throwing to him? Deuce had a passing game and OL that made things better for him also, and i'm quite sure he'd be the first to tell you that. They were having a nice tread and good intelligent conversation until the ultimate Brooks hater logged on. Do we really need to see the Brooks hatred everyday? Can you ever like call in sick into the forum?

I am willing to bet if there was a poll as to who needed to leave, you would win by a landslide. I am sorry you hate to hear the truth about Aaron Brooks. Ya know, if you put me on ignore, you wouldn't have to read ANYTHING I said. Imagine that. Wanna try?

11-09-2005, 04:04 PM	#11
4saintspirit 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 690	I did not mean to say that AB would all of a sudden stop making all of the bonehead plays -- but with his arm it is possible that with a real coach -- who would not coddle him, that would make him study the game, and maybe even help him grow into a leader that he may be an acceptable QB while we built out the rest of the team.
4saintspirit 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 690

11-09-2005, 04:20 PM	#12
RDOX 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 264	Originally Posted by 4saintspirit I did not mean to say that AB would all of a sudden stop making all of the bonehead plays -- but with his arm it is possible that with a real coach -- who would not coddle him, that would make him study the game, and maybe even help him grow into a leader that he may be an acceptable QB while we built out the rest of the team. 4saints!! Turk Schoernert (sp) is one of the toughest, hardnosed qb coaches in the league. Sheppard has dumbed down the playbook to kindergarten level, and still we have bonehead plays. If you want a comparison, look at Carson Palmer, or even David Carr. Young, inexpexperienced, etc., yet doing fairly well in the learning curve of the NFL. Vick, Leftwich, Rothleisberger, are three more that come to mind. If you look at these folks in comparison to Brooks, you see that Brooks has had 6 years as opposed to 2-3 by these others and he STILL doesn't come up to the same measure as they do. I watched Leftwich get killed Sunday and he came back and won the game. Batch didn't do badly, yet with Brooks we stumble and bumble along.
RDOX 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 264

11-09-2005, 04:35 PM	#13
4saintspirit 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 690	Originally Posted by RDOX Originally Posted by 4saintspirit I did not mean to say that AB would all of a sudden stop making all of the bonehead plays -- but with his arm it is possible that with a real coach -- who would not coddle him, that would make him study the game, and maybe even help him grow into a leader that he may be an acceptable QB while we built out the rest of the team. 4saints!! Turk Schoernert (sp) is one of the toughest, hardnosed qb coaches in the league. Sheppard has dumbed down the playbook to kindergarten level, and still we have bonehead plays. If you want a comparison, look at Carson Palmer, or even David Carr. Young, inexpexperienced, etc., yet doing fairly well in the learning curve of the NFL. Vick, Leftwich, Rothleisberger, are three more that come to mind. If you look at these folks in comparison to Brooks, you see that Brooks has had 6 years as opposed to 2-3 by these others and he STILL doesn't come up to the same measure as they do. I watched Leftwich get killed Sunday and he came back and won the game. Batch didn't do badly, yet with Brooks we stumble and bumble along. Believe me -- I am a Brooks basher by heart. But he has had 6 years under Haz -- I look at some excellent players who come to New orleans and never progress -- who slack off -- all because of our coaching IMO. I do not think Brooks has the intelligence to ever be a leader like either of the Mannings -- but he has the physical skills as good as any of the QBs in this league. And by the way -- they did not simplify the playbook -- they simplified how the plays were called. But back to my point -- if we get rid of Haz there is no reason to immediately get rid of Brooks (unless there is some good salary cap reasons) A new coach will bench AB if he doesn't produce -- that is my point
4saintspirit 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 690

11-09-2005, 04:53 PM	#14
RDOX 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 264	Originally Posted by 4saintspirit Originally Posted by RDOX Originally Posted by 4saintspirit I did not mean to say that AB would all of a sudden stop making all of the bonehead plays -- but with his arm it is possible that with a real coach -- who would not coddle him, that would make him study the game, and maybe even help him grow into a leader that he may be an acceptable QB while we built out the rest of the team. 4saints!! Turk Schoernert (sp) is one of the toughest, hardnosed qb coaches in the league. Sheppard has dumbed down the playbook to kindergarten level, and still we have bonehead plays. If you want a comparison, look at Carson Palmer, or even David Carr. Young, inexpexperienced, etc., yet doing fairly well in the learning curve of the NFL. Vick, Leftwich, Rothleisberger, are three more that come to mind. If you look at these folks in comparison to Brooks, you see that Brooks has had 6 years as opposed to 2-3 by these others and he STILL doesn't come up to the same measure as they do. I watched Leftwich get killed Sunday and he came back and won the game. Batch didn't do badly, yet with Brooks we stumble and bumble along. Believe me -- I am a Brooks basher by heart. But he has had 6 years under Haz -- I look at some excellent players who come to New orleans and never progress -- who slack off -- all because of our coaching IMO. I do not think Brooks has the intelligence to ever be a leader like either of the Mannings -- but he has the physical skills as good as any of the QBs in this league. And by the way -- they did not simplify the playbook -- they simplified how the plays were called. But back to my point -- if we get rid of Haz there is no reason to immediately get rid of Brooks (unless there is some good salary cap reasons) A new coach will bench AB if he doesn't produce -- that is my point Well put! I agree that we need new blood in the coaching staff, and we need to figure out who we could get in Free AGenacy to push Brooks. I'd like to see Harrington or Brees because they have some NFL experience under their belt and would only have to learn the playbook here, but would have knowledge of the game as play in the NFL. One thing that I seriously question is who would you get as a coaching staff, if you don't rid yourself of the Front Office Cancer? Cause if LOOMBOOM stays, whoever is on the field is hosed.
RDOX 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 264

11-09-2005, 05:42 PM	#16
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Originally Posted by Euphoria When Brook took the reigns from Blake, Brooks became the next coming of Jesus... then he still had some toolage from the Packers and a bit going for him, poor coaching and he went down and down... That's just sad. Brooks was 3-3 after he took over for Blake. As far as I know, Jesus was perfect. I am with RDOX, coaching can't explain away EVERYTHING about Brooks. If it's all coaching, how does Horn make the pro bowl 4 out fo 5 years? How does Deuce make a pro bowl? LeCharles? I agree thhat our coaches are VERY poor at developing players, but at some point, a player can take it upon himself to grow. Anyone think the coaches are forcing Peyton to go out before the game and throw with his receivers? Anyonethink the coaches forced McNabb to go to Arizona with TO when he first got there to work out together? Anyone think if Brooks told the coaches he wanted to look at still during the game they would say no? The coaches may not have developed AB, but he damn sure has not taken it upon himself to get better either. I NEVER hear of AB working with any of our receivers during the offseason. NEVER. I hear about some stupid ass leadership classes he may have taken though. It has been said numerous times there is a learning curve with young QBs, and generally at about age 28-30 they are who they are gonna be. Well, AB is almost 30, and he is damaged goods. No matter who is the coach, he needs to go. I don't wanna be half way through next year and be having the same discussions. Enough is enough.

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11-09-2005, 05:21 PM	#15
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	When Brook took the reigns from Blake, Brooks became the next coming of Jesus... then he still had some toolage from the Packers and a bit going for him, poor coaching and he went down and down...

11-09-2005, 05:50 PM	#17
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	What team that's losing has a player that looks the bomb on it? Go look at Brian Griese from last year's Bucs. They were 5-11. In only 10 starts, he had 20 TDs to 12 INTs. Completed almost 70% of his passes. And had a 90 something passer rating. Last year's Panthers. Lose everyone to injuury, Jake Delhomme throws 29 TDs. To only 14 INTs. 2 to one ratio. Need more?

11-09-2005, 05:55 PM	#18
RDOX 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 264	BonB! What is the saddest part of all of the whole discussion is that the main culprit of this saga constantly gets a pass. I fault Loomis more than any of the other members of this organization. When Finks left, Mora fell apart until he quit in mid season. Why? Cause his GM wasn't worth a bucket of warm spit. This is proven out in Kansas City where Carl Peterson has Kuhariak by the shorts and Peterson and Vermeil make the big decisions. Loomis is in the driver's seat and I'd bet the car note that he's making most of the personnel decisions based on what he knows best, CAP ROOM. I'm for Loomis being the contract negotiator and cap man, because he's great at that. But he's not strong on football operations. Hazlett is running around looking stupid based on Loomis' personnel evaluations. Why did we get another defensive end in Will Smith when we BADLY need a shut down linebacker? This kind of stupidity makes the defense look bad before they hit the field, and Venturi shoulders the blame for trying to make chicken salad out of chicken feathers. We badly need to clean house, front office, and coaching staff now. They are all contaminated with Loomboomitis.
RDOX 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 264

11-09-2005, 07:30 PM	#19
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Originally Posted by BlackonBlack Aron Brooks 2001 put up great numbers Probowl alternate in 2001-2002. So you just disproved your own point? Fine by me.

11-09-2005, 07:32 PM	#20
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Horn had who throwing to him? Deuce had a passing game and OL that made things better for him also, and i'm quite sure he'd be the first to tell you that. They were having a nice tread and good intelligent conversation until the ultimate Brooks hater logged on. Do we really need to see the Brooks hatred everyday? Can you ever like call in sick into the forum? I am willing to bet if there was a poll as to who needed to leave, you would win by a landslide. I am sorry you hate to hear the truth about Aaron Brooks. Ya know, if you put me on ignore, you wouldn't have to read ANYTHING I said. Imagine that. Wanna try?