i am not sure we need to draft only d this draft.

saintswhodi · 11-27-2005, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by BlackonBlack

Most of those games are against SEC opponents. That's not "games you get to schedule."

Here ya' go...

5 points against MissSt were by defense and special teams.

http://www.lsusports.net/fls/5200/as...DB_OEM_ID=5200

5 out of 37 points, which is 32, which is more than 30? And what kind of dimwit takes a FG out of an offense's scoring? That has to be the dumbest thing I have ever seen in my life. You know the offense normally has to drive the FG unit into range right? This isn't even worth my time.

saintswhodi · 11-27-2005, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by BlackonBlack

Say something else that I can prove you wrong on, I dare you...

The saddest thing is, you really think you are right. Nobody with even a small bit of intelligence would take special teams points out of an offense's scoring. That's just stupid. AND, even if you take out all the points you wanna take away from the offense, they still average over 25 points a game. So what's your point? The Saints offense isn't even close to that. But the offense's turnovers have led to almost half the toal points allowed by the team. Also, LSU's defense is last in the SEC in takeaways. Dead last, so I guess those 29.9 points a game by the offense helps a little no? So you were wrong about all their points coming against App State and North Texas, wrong about all of them coming against opponents they scheduled, just plain dumb for trying to take out special teams points, and still they have an offense that averages a very high number of points, and you think you are right? F-R-A-U-D.

TheDeuce · 11-27-2005, 06:58 PM

Deuce,

you are just throwing a whole lot of averages out there...

OK, if you like averages, check this out:
Average points per game scored by the 2005 Saints offense: 16
Average points allowed by the 2000 Ravens defense: 16.5

See?? EVEN IF THE SAINTS DEFENSE WERE THE EQUIVALENT OF THE 2005 RAVENS, STATISTICALLY THEY"D STILL LOSE!!!

... if you go and read the post I made about the defense playing well, you'd see an explanation of actual events on the football field, not just averages.

I'm not going to repeat all of that post here, but, in answering this post of yours, I'll point of that:

The defense is NOT allowing 26.6 points per game. You cannot count points scored by opposing defenses or opposing special teams against the defense.

You say that the 14 take-aways the defense has created are bad.. ok..but how about the offense turning the ball twice as much? The Saints offense has 28 turnovers, which is the worst in the NFL. Not the NFC, the NFL.

Now, let's stay with turnovers for a while...

you say that a good defense finds a way to keep points off the board when the offense turns the ball over.. and that is true to a point.
How many football games have you seen where a team turns the ball over 4, 5, 6 times and they go out and win the game? I'm sure that you'll find a couple here and there, but unless you got the 1985 Bears or the 2000 Ravens defense, your offense turns the ball over 3 times in a game, chances are you lose that game... ESPECIALLY if you turn the ball over in your side of the field.

Now, how about points off turnovers by the Saints offense? How many points off those 14 turnovers has the Saints offense turn into points? Just in the Chicago game, the defense created 3 turnovers, yet the offense could not score a single point off any of them. NOt even a measly field goal.

Now, I don't know if you count field goals as points scored by the offense, but even if you do, here's the average of points scored by the Saints offense: 15.9. OK, let's call it 16. And that is by just adding the totals from all games and dividing them by the number of games played.

One more thing: let me ask you: what happens when you fail to convert on 3rd down?
3 possible outcomes: you go for it on 4th, you attempt a field goal, or you punt. Do you think you aer going to win many games if you don't convert ZERO 3rd downs? How about 2? Or 3??

I'm just throwing averages out there? No, I gave you some good stats, but you obviously just ignored the ones that make my point. Our run defense is awful, they give up over 100 yards to pretty much any back, including three or four 2nd and 3rd stringers. That being said, teams don't have to throw it on us because they can run it instead and be more effective. The whole point of my post, if you actually read the whole thing, is that while yes our offense is really really bad this year, it would be absolutely retarded to just forget about improving our defense just because a few stats have improved. That's what I was saying, not that our defense is totally to blame and that our offense isn't.

So remember, our team might have improved stats in passing defense and total defense, but that's just because of our porous run defense. Also, I still stand by my statement that they don't make big plays when they need to. You wanna argue that one too? If you do, go look at the Atlanta game, or the Miami game, or the St. Louis game, or pretty much every game we've lost; then drink a nice frosty glass of shut the hell up because you'll realize this defense doesn't make big plays when the game is on the line.

Another thing, the 26.6 points/game was my mistake, the stat page I was looking at was titled "Team Defensive Leaders" so I figured it was just points given up by defenses. So good eye, my bad.

TheDeuce · 11-27-2005, 07:03 PM

O and by the way, where did you get that the Ravens allowed 16 points per game? If you take their points allowed divided by the games played, it comes out to be like 10. But nice try

saintswhodi · 11-27-2005, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by BlackonBlack

The saddest thing is, you really think you are right. Nobody with even a small bit of intelligence would take special teams points out of an offense's scoring. That's just stupid. AND, even if you take out all the points you wanna take away from the offense, they still average over 25 points a game. So what's your point? The Saints offense isn't even close to that. But the offense's turnovers have led to almost half the toal points allowed by the team. Also, LSU's defense is last in the SEC in takeaways. Dead last, so I guess those 29.9 points a game by the offense helps a little no? So you were wrong about all their points coming against App State and North Texas, wrong about all of them coming against opponents they scheduled, just plain dumb for trying to take out special teams points, and still they have an offense that averages a very high number of points, and you think you are right? F-R-A-U-D.

Just in case anyone's interested, LSU is averaing 30 points a game offensively. Just thought i'd put that out there.

You said LSU'S offense averages 30 points a game, I'm quite sure i've proved you wrong yet again. See unlike you O actually watch the games, I watch LSU on Saturdays Saints on Sunday and know they(offenses) mirror each other. You minus the scheduled patsies, the defensive scores, minus the special teams TD'S and take into account the fg kicker of the Saints misses; you have the Saints in LSU colors.

Yup, this proves it, you are that stupid. Wow.

saintswhodi · 11-27-2005, 08:24 PM

If you do, go look at the Atlanta game,

Um Deuce, you do know Atlanta scored 21 points on two turnovers by the offense and a blocked FG. ALSO, the score was tied 24-24 late in the 5th with 5 minutes left, when AB threw the INT that allowed them t0 go up 31-24, cause us to have to go down the field and score just to tie it, instead of winning the game.

or the St. Louis game,

14 more points off turnovers led to that loss.

or pretty much every game we've lost

Has been because of turnovers. But somehow it's the run defense's fault cause they are ranked low? Um, no.

TheDeuce · 11-27-2005, 08:55 PM

Atlanta game..... 56 seconds left. Atlanta goes 50 yards on our sorry defense who doesn't bother to cover Alge Crumpler and just gets dominated. That's not what I call stepping it up when your team needs it. Sure the offense and special teams gave up some points earlier in the game; but that doesn't change the fact that the defense had an opportunity to stop the Falcons at the end of the game. They didn't make a play when it counted. So yes, I blame the defense for that one.

And the other games have been affected by turnovers, but our porous defense is a large part of why we lose those games. You can't say, "The only reason why we lost those games is because of turnovers." If you do, you should check yourself into a mental hospital because you're insane. THe turnovers hurt, but you can't say they were the ONLY reason we lost; if you do you're a moron. So the turnovers hurt, but our defense also contributed to losing those games. Do you agree?

saintswhodi · 11-27-2005, 09:27 PM

Check myself into a mental hospital? Moron? And to tobias you told him to have a glass of shet the hell up? Is that where you wanna take this conversation? Cool. It's stupid to say:

Sure the offense and special teams gave up some points earlier in the game;

SOME POINTS?!?!?! They gave up 21 out of 34. That's not some, that's enough to win. Are you even watching the games? Who gives a crap how much rushing yards they give up, or what late game situations they fade in, if the situations ALL could be avoided if not for turnovers and points off? That's stupid. If there is no 21 points off turnovers, there is no late drive by Atlanta. Get it? If you don't, you should move your gear shift from D for drive to S for stupid. IF there is no 14 points given up to St. Louis, there's another win. Our defense ain't great, but leading the league in turnovers is what's killing us. Keeping the other team from scoring is what matters, and our defense has done that. IF they are giving up 26 points a game, half of that has come off turnovers, so they would be giving up 13 a game without them. Anyone who doesn't think that's enough to win should shet the hell up for fear of being mistaken for mentally handicapped. Now is that how we want the convo to continue, or can you make this foolish argument without the insults?

spkb25 · 11-28-2005, 08:03 PM

our o sucks

spkb25 · 11-28-2005, 08:04 PM

our o sucks

11-27-2005, 06:20 PM	#11
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Originally Posted by BlackonBlack Most of those games are against SEC opponents. That's not "games you get to schedule." Here ya' go... 5 points against MissSt were by defense and special teams. http://www.lsusports.net/fls/5200/as...DB_OEM_ID=5200 5 out of 37 points, which is 32, which is more than 30? And what kind of dimwit takes a FG out of an offense's scoring? That has to be the dumbest thing I have ever seen in my life. You know the offense normally has to drive the FG unit into range right? This isn't even worth my time.

11-27-2005, 06:51 PM	#12
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Originally Posted by BlackonBlack Say something else that I can prove you wrong on, I dare you... The saddest thing is, you really think you are right. Nobody with even a small bit of intelligence would take special teams points out of an offense's scoring. That's just stupid. AND, even if you take out all the points you wanna take away from the offense, they still average over 25 points a game. So what's your point? The Saints offense isn't even close to that. But the offense's turnovers have led to almost half the toal points allowed by the team. Also, LSU's defense is last in the SEC in takeaways. Dead last, so I guess those 29.9 points a game by the offense helps a little no? So you were wrong about all their points coming against App State and North Texas, wrong about all of them coming against opponents they scheduled, just plain dumb for trying to take out special teams points, and still they have an offense that averages a very high number of points, and you think you are right? F-R-A-U-D.

11-27-2005, 06:58 PM	#13
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928	Deuce, you are just throwing a whole lot of averages out there... OK, if you like averages, check this out: Average points per game scored by the 2005 Saints offense: 16 Average points allowed by the 2000 Ravens defense: 16.5 See?? EVEN IF THE SAINTS DEFENSE WERE THE EQUIVALENT OF THE 2005 RAVENS, STATISTICALLY THEY"D STILL LOSE!!! ... if you go and read the post I made about the defense playing well, you'd see an explanation of actual events on the football field, not just averages. I'm not going to repeat all of that post here, but, in answering this post of yours, I'll point of that: The defense is NOT allowing 26.6 points per game. You cannot count points scored by opposing defenses or opposing special teams against the defense. You say that the 14 take-aways the defense has created are bad.. ok..but how about the offense turning the ball twice as much? The Saints offense has 28 turnovers, which is the worst in the NFL. Not the NFC, the NFL. Now, let's stay with turnovers for a while... you say that a good defense finds a way to keep points off the board when the offense turns the ball over.. and that is true to a point. How many football games have you seen where a team turns the ball over 4, 5, 6 times and they go out and win the game? I'm sure that you'll find a couple here and there, but unless you got the 1985 Bears or the 2000 Ravens defense, your offense turns the ball over 3 times in a game, chances are you lose that game... ESPECIALLY if you turn the ball over in your side of the field. Now, how about points off turnovers by the Saints offense? How many points off those 14 turnovers has the Saints offense turn into points? Just in the Chicago game, the defense created 3 turnovers, yet the offense could not score a single point off any of them. NOt even a measly field goal. Now, I don't know if you count field goals as points scored by the offense, but even if you do, here's the average of points scored by the Saints offense: 15.9. OK, let's call it 16. And that is by just adding the totals from all games and dividing them by the number of games played. One more thing: let me ask you: what happens when you fail to convert on 3rd down? 3 possible outcomes: you go for it on 4th, you attempt a field goal, or you punt. Do you think you aer going to win many games if you don't convert ZERO 3rd downs? How about 2? Or 3?? I'm just throwing averages out there? No, I gave you some good stats, but you obviously just ignored the ones that make my point. Our run defense is awful, they give up over 100 yards to pretty much any back, including three or four 2nd and 3rd stringers. That being said, teams don't have to throw it on us because they can run it instead and be more effective. The whole point of my post, if you actually read the whole thing, is that while yes our offense is really really bad this year, it would be absolutely retarded to just forget about improving our defense just because a few stats have improved. That's what I was saying, not that our defense is totally to blame and that our offense isn't. So remember, our team might have improved stats in passing defense and total defense, but that's just because of our porous run defense. Also, I still stand by my statement that they don't make big plays when they need to. You wanna argue that one too? If you do, go look at the Atlanta game, or the Miami game, or the St. Louis game, or pretty much every game we've lost; then drink a nice frosty glass of shut the hell up because you'll realize this defense doesn't make big plays when the game is on the line. Another thing, the 26.6 points/game was my mistake, the stat page I was looking at was titled "Team Defensive Leaders" so I figured it was just points given up by defenses. So good eye, my bad.
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928

11-27-2005, 07:03 PM	#14
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928	O and by the way, where did you get that the Ravens allowed 16 points per game? If you take their points allowed divided by the games played, it comes out to be like 10. But nice try
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928

11-27-2005, 08:20 PM	#15
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Originally Posted by BlackonBlack The saddest thing is, you really think you are right. Nobody with even a small bit of intelligence would take special teams points out of an offense's scoring. That's just stupid. AND, even if you take out all the points you wanna take away from the offense, they still average over 25 points a game. So what's your point? The Saints offense isn't even close to that. But the offense's turnovers have led to almost half the toal points allowed by the team. Also, LSU's defense is last in the SEC in takeaways. Dead last, so I guess those 29.9 points a game by the offense helps a little no? So you were wrong about all their points coming against App State and North Texas, wrong about all of them coming against opponents they scheduled, just plain dumb for trying to take out special teams points, and still they have an offense that averages a very high number of points, and you think you are right? F-R-A-U-D. Just in case anyone's interested, LSU is averaing 30 points a game offensively. Just thought i'd put that out there. You said LSU'S offense averages 30 points a game, I'm quite sure i've proved you wrong yet again. See unlike you O actually watch the games, I watch LSU on Saturdays Saints on Sunday and know they(offenses) mirror each other. You minus the scheduled patsies, the defensive scores, minus the special teams TD'S and take into account the fg kicker of the Saints misses; you have the Saints in LSU colors. Yup, this proves it, you are that stupid. Wow.

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11-27-2005, 08:24 PM	#16
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	If you do, go look at the Atlanta game, Um Deuce, you do know Atlanta scored 21 points on two turnovers by the offense and a blocked FG. ALSO, the score was tied 24-24 late in the 5th with 5 minutes left, when AB threw the INT that allowed them t0 go up 31-24, cause us to have to go down the field and score just to tie it, instead of winning the game. or the St. Louis game, 14 more points off turnovers led to that loss. or pretty much every game we've lost Has been because of turnovers. But somehow it's the run defense's fault cause they are ranked low? Um, no.

11-27-2005, 08:55 PM	#17
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928	Atlanta game..... 56 seconds left. Atlanta goes 50 yards on our sorry defense who doesn't bother to cover Alge Crumpler and just gets dominated. That's not what I call stepping it up when your team needs it. Sure the offense and special teams gave up some points earlier in the game; but that doesn't change the fact that the defense had an opportunity to stop the Falcons at the end of the game. They didn't make a play when it counted. So yes, I blame the defense for that one. And the other games have been affected by turnovers, but our porous defense is a large part of why we lose those games. You can't say, "The only reason why we lost those games is because of turnovers." If you do, you should check yourself into a mental hospital because you're insane. THe turnovers hurt, but you can't say they were the ONLY reason we lost; if you do you're a moron. So the turnovers hurt, but our defense also contributed to losing those games. Do you agree?
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928

11-27-2005, 09:27 PM	#18
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Check myself into a mental hospital? Moron? And to tobias you told him to have a glass of shet the hell up? Is that where you wanna take this conversation? Cool. It's stupid to say: Sure the offense and special teams gave up some points earlier in the game; SOME POINTS?!?!?! They gave up 21 out of 34. That's not some, that's enough to win. Are you even watching the games? Who gives a crap how much rushing yards they give up, or what late game situations they fade in, if the situations ALL could be avoided if not for turnovers and points off? That's stupid. If there is no 21 points off turnovers, there is no late drive by Atlanta. Get it? If you don't, you should move your gear shift from D for drive to S for stupid. IF there is no 14 points given up to St. Louis, there's another win. Our defense ain't great, but leading the league in turnovers is what's killing us. Keeping the other team from scoring is what matters, and our defense has done that. IF they are giving up 26 points a game, half of that has come off turnovers, so they would be giving up 13 a game without them. Anyone who doesn't think that's enough to win should shet the hell up for fear of being mistaken for mentally handicapped. Now is that how we want the convo to continue, or can you make this foolish argument without the insults?

11-28-2005, 08:03 PM	#19
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,101	our o sucks

11-28-2005, 08:04 PM	#20
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,101	our o sucks