i am not sure we need to draft only d this draft.

TheDeuce · 11-28-2005, 11:22 PM

If you don't, you should move your gear shift from D for drive to S for stupid.

First of all, that was the lamest thing I've ever heard.

Second, I don't care if the offense/special teams gave up 21 points, it was still in the defense's ability to force the game to overtime. Do you agree with that? It wasn't like because the offense and special teams gave up 21 points that the defense could feel justified in giving up a 50 yard drive in under a minute. The two (offense and special teams giving up 21 points & the defense giving up a late drive) are totally unrelated.
What happened before that drive had no bearing on what the defense did on that drive. They had a chance to stop the Falcons and keep them out of scoring range. Did they? NO. They gave up 50 yards in I believe 46 seconds or something.
I don't think you're getting this, the Saints defense had one job at the end of the game, keep ATL out of field goal range. THe game was tied. It doesn't matter how many points the offense gave up. They had one shot. And they blew it. So again I say to you: they don't make the big plays when they need it.

TheDeuce · 11-28-2005, 11:24 PM

O and about the "insults," they weren't insults directed at you SW, because obviously you're smarter than that. You can't honestly believe that the defense should not be helped in the offseason, which was the entire reason for my argument in the first place. Or can you......

saintswhodi · 11-29-2005, 08:43 AM

It wasn't like because the offense and special teams gave up 21 points that the defense could feel justified in giving up a 50 yard drive in under a minute. The two (offense and special teams giving up 21 points & the defense giving up a late drive) are totally unrelated.

I honestly can not believe anyone would say this. GIVING UP 21 POINTS IN UNRELATED?!?!?!?! WTF?!?!?! Is this two seperate teams? How can you say they are unrelated, when without one, THE OTHER DOESN'T HAPPEN?!?!?!? If there are no 21 points given up, THERE IS NO LAST MINUTE DRIVE. Hello. How is that so difficult to understand? That's like saying if I buy a brand new car, and Mitsubishi built a shoddy engine in my brand new never driven car, and it breaks down 1 mile from the dealership, Mitsubishi is not responsible and I am stuck with that car. It doesn't work like that. It's called cause and effect. Cause: The Saints defense would have held Atlanta to 10 points the whole game if not for turnovers that led to points. They dominated them all day. Effect: After playing more than well enough for us to win, they are asked to do in the late 4th quarter what they had already done all game, and couldn't. But actually they did, cause a BS penalty gave Atlanta a second kick after the first was missed. If not for the BS penalty, we would not even be having this convo. Get it?? I don't see how you can watch and say giving up 21 points, not even by the defense, is unrelated for a TEAM. I can't sit here and honestly believe you think like that.

TheDeuce · 11-29-2005, 12:42 PM

If there are no 21 points given up, THERE IS NO LAST MINUTE DRIVE.

True. But the offense did give up those points SW. And that is exactly what you don't understand. The defense couldn't do anything about those 21 points. But they COULD have stopped Atlanta on the final drive. The defense can only play defense, and worry about stopping the other team's offense. They can't worry about what their offense does; whether it be good or bad. And they didn't stop ATL.

they are asked to do in the late 4th quarter what they had already done all game, and couldn't.

Bingo. Thank you for understanding me Whodi. You have shown me that you know in your mind that the Saints defense had a chance to stop ATL, and they "couldn't." What's so hard to understand about that?

O and about the BS call, sure we got screwed, but our defense should have never allowed them to get anywhere near field goal range in the first place. In fact, their kicker was already well inside his field goal range, he just made a bad kick. And also, our defense committed a too many men on the field penalty to move them five yards closer even before the special teams got on the field. THEY BLEW IT. Just accept it. The offense and special teams played an awful game, and they were probably mostly to blame for the loss; but you can't sit there and tell me that the defense shouldn't be blamed for allowing that last drive, can you? Or is that the offense's fault too? Did Aaron Brooks make the defense let Alge Crumpler run around uncovered in the back of our secondary? Was it Stecker's fault that Mike Vick was hitting wide open receivers standing by the sidelines? Let me answer that one for you. NO. The Saints' defense had an opportunity to force overtime and they gave up 50 yards in 46 seconds. It's the defense's fault on the last drive.

TheDeuce · 11-29-2005, 12:45 PM

That's like saying if I buy a brand new car, and Mitsubishi built a shoddy engine in my brand new never driven car, and it breaks down 1 mile from the dealership, Mitsubishi is not responsible and I am stuck with that car.

That's the second lamest thing I've ever heard. Keep your poorly constructed car analogies to yourself.

saintswhodi · 11-29-2005, 01:44 PM

You say it's lame, cause you know it's true. Why pin a loss on a defense that held a team to 10 points? Isn't the object not to give up points? The MAIN POINT is that if not for 21 points given up by offense and special teams, we win that game, and talk about how great our defense looked stopping Atlanta. End of discussion. It was late in the 4th quarter. I didn't see Atlanta's defense stop us from driving right down the field for a TD after we gave them 7 points on a turnover. Isn't Atlanta's defense supposed to be better than ours? Our defense is not good enough to CONSTANTLY have to overcome offensive mistakes. You would think at some point we were the 2000 Ravens or something the way that flies over your head. We have an AVERAGE defense, so when they do play a GOOD game, it would be nice for the offense not to give the game away. DUH!!

I'll tell you what's lame though:

The two (offense and special teams giving up 21 points & the defense giving up a late drive) are totally unrelated.

Lame. I noticed how you didn't try to make that invalid point again. You want more lame?

They can't worry about what their offense does; whether it be good or bad.

First it was unrelated. now that can't worry about it? Have you donated your brain to science man? Jesus. We could have the 2000 Ravens defense, if our offense gives up 21 points, WE WOULD LOSE. Crack kills.

The offense and special teams played an awful game, and they were probably mostly to blame for the loss;

Then shet the hell up about it already. We agree. That's that. :P

xan · 11-29-2005, 02:12 PM

Just because I'm bored...

The offense has given up 37 points directly. This would lower the D's ppg average from 25.4 to 22.5. This 22.5 ppg is 3 points BETTER than last year's worst ranked defense.

The offense is averaging 16.4 points per game vs their 2004 campaign average of 21.8, or 5.4 points WORSE. More and better weapons this year, as well, plus a simplified offense for AB.

Fold in 17 of 27 turnovers committed by the offense inside the Saints 40 and you get closer to "league's worst" in a hurry.

Who sucks more? The AB led offense. Why are the Saints losing? The AB led offense.

TheDeuce · 11-29-2005, 11:50 PM

Lame. I noticed how you didn't try to make that invalid point again.

Why should I have to make that point again? I already made it once. Do you have a learning disability and need me to repeat all of my points again?

Also, I think you've entirely missed my whole point, which I stated in my very first post on this thread:

I think it is absolutely dumb and ignorant to think that the defense is without blame this season and without need of help.

I know you can't believe that this defensive unit doesn't need any help via the draft or free agency. And if you do, then I'll just assume that you do have that learning disability.

Also, step up and answer this question, because you've done a pretty good job of skirting the issue. Go on, man up:

but you can't sit there and tell me that the defense shouldn't be blamed for allowing that last drive, can you? Or is that the offense's fault too? Did Aaron Brooks make the defense let Alge Crumpler run around uncovered in the back of our secondary? Was it Stecker's fault that Mike Vick was hitting wide open receivers standing by the sidelines?

Go ahead, say that it's the defense's fault on the last drive because anybody with half a brain knows that the defense had a shot. Forget the rest of the game. It was the defense's fault, right?

Let's say I bought a car from Mitsubishi...

saintswhodi · 11-30-2005, 08:59 AM

I don't know where you were when they were handing out brains, but the next time the opportunity comes to your town, grab one. I answered your dumb ass question, you even quoted it:

they are asked to do in the late 4th quarter what they had already done all game, and couldn't.

LMAO!!! And I have a learning disability? You even said:

Bingo. Thank you for understanding me Whodi.

hahahahaha. Whoops. Shouldn't try to look smart champ, or like you are even in this argument. I told you once before, crack kills.

Ignorance is a luxury few can afford, so you must be rich. But to add to it, you didn't eve bother responding to xan, cause he deaded you argument as well. Find a new bag, this one's too heavy for you.

TheDeuce · 11-30-2005, 12:53 PM

Ummm actually chief you never answered my question. I quoted you in the same post that I asked you the question. After I asked you the question:

but you can't sit there and tell me that the defense shouldn't be blamed for allowing that last drive, can you? Or is that the offense's fault too? Did Aaron Brooks make the defense let Alge Crumpler run around uncovered in the back of our secondary? Was it Stecker's fault that Mike Vick was hitting wide open receivers standing by the sidelines?

you never gave me an answer. So who has the learning disability? You still think that because the offense was bad, it gives the right for the defense to give up a last second drive in a tie game. My quote:

Quote:
they are asked to do in the late 4th quarter what they had already done all game, and couldn't.

Bingo. Thank you for understanding me Whodi.

is in response to you saying that "the defense couldn't stop them on the last drive but it was still the offense's fault." I asked you a new question, shouldn't the defense be held responsible for the last drive, and you still haven't stepped up and answered. Nice try with all of the put-downs and "witty" insults, but I'm not impressed. You can try to call me dumb or whatever, but the truth is, you agreed with me on something else, I asked a new question, and you never answered it. So come on Whodi, I'm waiting, shouldn't the defense be blamed for the last drive?

I don't know where you were when they were handing out brains, but the next time the opportunity comes to your town, grab one.

I don't know what kind of creepy ass town you live in (actually I do because I've been there and it sucks (especially seeing the lady jump out of the Marriott on the Riverwalk, but hell, if I was in San Antonio for more than one day, I'd probably jump to my death too)), but where I come from in Dallas people don't "hand out" brains. People are usually "born" with brains. I think I learned that kind of stuff in elementary school. Haha, you must have picked a bad brain, so why don't you go read what I wrote, realize you're wrong, go back to elementary school so you can understand how human beings work, and then answer the question Whodi. I don't give two craps what xan said, that's his opinion, and he didn't even answer my question. His response:

Who sucks more? The AB led offense. Why are the Saints losing? The AB led offense.

is a response to the question, who should be blamed for our losses. My question was "shouldn't the defense be blamed for the last drive?" Do I have to spoon feed this all to you SW?

11-28-2005, 11:22 PM	#21
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928	If you don't, you should move your gear shift from D for drive to S for stupid. First of all, that was the lamest thing I've ever heard. Second, I don't care if the offense/special teams gave up 21 points, it was still in the defense's ability to force the game to overtime. Do you agree with that? It wasn't like because the offense and special teams gave up 21 points that the defense could feel justified in giving up a 50 yard drive in under a minute. The two (offense and special teams giving up 21 points & the defense giving up a late drive) are totally unrelated. What happened before that drive had no bearing on what the defense did on that drive. They had a chance to stop the Falcons and keep them out of scoring range. Did they? NO. They gave up 50 yards in I believe 46 seconds or something. I don't think you're getting this, the Saints defense had one job at the end of the game, keep ATL out of field goal range. THe game was tied. It doesn't matter how many points the offense gave up. They had one shot. And they blew it. So again I say to you: they don't make the big plays when they need it.
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928

11-28-2005, 11:24 PM	#22
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928	O and about the "insults," they weren't insults directed at you SW, because obviously you're smarter than that. You can't honestly believe that the defense should not be helped in the offseason, which was the entire reason for my argument in the first place. Or can you......
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928

11-29-2005, 12:42 PM	#24
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928	If there are no 21 points given up, THERE IS NO LAST MINUTE DRIVE. True. But the offense did give up those points SW. And that is exactly what you don't understand. The defense couldn't do anything about those 21 points. But they COULD have stopped Atlanta on the final drive. The defense can only play defense, and worry about stopping the other team's offense. They can't worry about what their offense does; whether it be good or bad. And they didn't stop ATL. they are asked to do in the late 4th quarter what they had already done all game, and couldn't. Bingo. Thank you for understanding me Whodi. You have shown me that you know in your mind that the Saints defense had a chance to stop ATL, and they "couldn't." What's so hard to understand about that? O and about the BS call, sure we got screwed, but our defense should have never allowed them to get anywhere near field goal range in the first place. In fact, their kicker was already well inside his field goal range, he just made a bad kick. And also, our defense committed a too many men on the field penalty to move them five yards closer even before the special teams got on the field. THEY BLEW IT. Just accept it. The offense and special teams played an awful game, and they were probably mostly to blame for the loss; but you can't sit there and tell me that the defense shouldn't be blamed for allowing that last drive, can you? Or is that the offense's fault too? Did Aaron Brooks make the defense let Alge Crumpler run around uncovered in the back of our secondary? Was it Stecker's fault that Mike Vick was hitting wide open receivers standing by the sidelines? Let me answer that one for you. NO. The Saints' defense had an opportunity to force overtime and they gave up 50 yards in 46 seconds. It's the defense's fault on the last drive.
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928

11-29-2005, 12:45 PM	#25
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928	That's like saying if I buy a brand new car, and Mitsubishi built a shoddy engine in my brand new never driven car, and it breaks down 1 mile from the dealership, Mitsubishi is not responsible and I am stuck with that car. That's the second lamest thing I've ever heard. Keep your poorly constructed car analogies to yourself.
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928

11-29-2005, 01:44 PM	#26
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	You say it's lame, cause you know it's true. Why pin a loss on a defense that held a team to 10 points? Isn't the object not to give up points? The MAIN POINT is that if not for 21 points given up by offense and special teams, we win that game, and talk about how great our defense looked stopping Atlanta. End of discussion. It was late in the 4th quarter. I didn't see Atlanta's defense stop us from driving right down the field for a TD after we gave them 7 points on a turnover. Isn't Atlanta's defense supposed to be better than ours? Our defense is not good enough to CONSTANTLY have to overcome offensive mistakes. You would think at some point we were the 2000 Ravens or something the way that flies over your head. We have an AVERAGE defense, so when they do play a GOOD game, it would be nice for the offense not to give the game away. DUH!! I'll tell you what's lame though: The two (offense and special teams giving up 21 points & the defense giving up a late drive) are totally unrelated. Lame. I noticed how you didn't try to make that invalid point again. You want more lame? They can't worry about what their offense does; whether it be good or bad. First it was unrelated. now that can't worry about it? Have you donated your brain to science man? Jesus. We could have the 2000 Ravens defense, if our offense gives up 21 points, WE WOULD LOSE. Crack kills. The offense and special teams played an awful game, and they were probably mostly to blame for the loss; Then shet the hell up about it already. We agree. That's that. :P

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11-29-2005, 08:43 AM	#23
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	It wasn't like because the offense and special teams gave up 21 points that the defense could feel justified in giving up a 50 yard drive in under a minute. The two (offense and special teams giving up 21 points & the defense giving up a late drive) are totally unrelated. I honestly can not believe anyone would say this. GIVING UP 21 POINTS IN UNRELATED?!?!?!?! WTF?!?!?! Is this two seperate teams? How can you say they are unrelated, when without one, THE OTHER DOESN'T HAPPEN?!?!?!? If there are no 21 points given up, THERE IS NO LAST MINUTE DRIVE. Hello. How is that so difficult to understand? That's like saying if I buy a brand new car, and Mitsubishi built a shoddy engine in my brand new never driven car, and it breaks down 1 mile from the dealership, Mitsubishi is not responsible and I am stuck with that car. It doesn't work like that. It's called cause and effect. Cause: The Saints defense would have held Atlanta to 10 points the whole game if not for turnovers that led to points. They dominated them all day. Effect: After playing more than well enough for us to win, they are asked to do in the late 4th quarter what they had already done all game, and couldn't. But actually they did, cause a BS penalty gave Atlanta a second kick after the first was missed. If not for the BS penalty, we would not even be having this convo. Get it?? I don't see how you can watch and say giving up 21 points, not even by the defense, is unrelated for a TEAM. I can't sit here and honestly believe you think like that.

11-29-2005, 02:12 PM	#27
xan Professor Crab and Site Donor 2014 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Princeton Posts: 3,368 Blog Entries: 34	Just because I'm bored... The offense has given up 37 points directly. This would lower the D's ppg average from 25.4 to 22.5. This 22.5 ppg is 3 points BETTER than last year's worst ranked defense. The offense is averaging 16.4 points per game vs their 2004 campaign average of 21.8, or 5.4 points WORSE. More and better weapons this year, as well, plus a simplified offense for AB. Fold in 17 of 27 turnovers committed by the offense inside the Saints 40 and you get closer to "league's worst" in a hurry. Who sucks more? The AB led offense. Why are the Saints losing? The AB led offense.

11-29-2005, 11:50 PM	#28
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928	Lame. I noticed how you didn't try to make that invalid point again. Why should I have to make that point again? I already made it once. Do you have a learning disability and need me to repeat all of my points again? Also, I think you've entirely missed my whole point, which I stated in my very first post on this thread: I think it is absolutely dumb and ignorant to think that the defense is without blame this season and without need of help. I know you can't believe that this defensive unit doesn't need any help via the draft or free agency. And if you do, then I'll just assume that you do have that learning disability. Also, step up and answer this question, because you've done a pretty good job of skirting the issue. Go on, man up: but you can't sit there and tell me that the defense shouldn't be blamed for allowing that last drive, can you? Or is that the offense's fault too? Did Aaron Brooks make the defense let Alge Crumpler run around uncovered in the back of our secondary? Was it Stecker's fault that Mike Vick was hitting wide open receivers standing by the sidelines? Go ahead, say that it's the defense's fault on the last drive because anybody with half a brain knows that the defense had a shot. Forget the rest of the game. It was the defense's fault, right? Let's say I bought a car from Mitsubishi...
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928

11-30-2005, 08:59 AM	#29
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	I don't know where you were when they were handing out brains, but the next time the opportunity comes to your town, grab one. I answered your dumb ass question, you even quoted it: they are asked to do in the late 4th quarter what they had already done all game, and couldn't. LMAO!!! And I have a learning disability? You even said: Bingo. Thank you for understanding me Whodi. hahahahaha. Whoops. Shouldn't try to look smart champ, or like you are even in this argument. I told you once before, crack kills. Ignorance is a luxury few can afford, so you must be rich. But to add to it, you didn't eve bother responding to xan, cause he deaded you argument as well. Find a new bag, this one's too heavy for you.

11-30-2005, 12:53 PM	#30
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928	Ummm actually chief you never answered my question. I quoted you in the same post that I asked you the question. After I asked you the question: but you can't sit there and tell me that the defense shouldn't be blamed for allowing that last drive, can you? Or is that the offense's fault too? Did Aaron Brooks make the defense let Alge Crumpler run around uncovered in the back of our secondary? Was it Stecker's fault that Mike Vick was hitting wide open receivers standing by the sidelines? you never gave me an answer. So who has the learning disability? You still think that because the offense was bad, it gives the right for the defense to give up a last second drive in a tie game. My quote: Quote: they are asked to do in the late 4th quarter what they had already done all game, and couldn't. Bingo. Thank you for understanding me Whodi. is in response to you saying that "the defense couldn't stop them on the last drive but it was still the offense's fault." I asked you a new question, shouldn't the defense be held responsible for the last drive, and you still haven't stepped up and answered. Nice try with all of the put-downs and "witty" insults, but I'm not impressed. You can try to call me dumb or whatever, but the truth is, you agreed with me on something else, I asked a new question, and you never answered it. So come on Whodi, I'm waiting, shouldn't the defense be blamed for the last drive? I don't know where you were when they were handing out brains, but the next time the opportunity comes to your town, grab one. I don't know what kind of creepy ass town you live in (actually I do because I've been there and it sucks (especially seeing the lady jump out of the Marriott on the Riverwalk, but hell, if I was in San Antonio for more than one day, I'd probably jump to my death too)), but where I come from in Dallas people don't "hand out" brains. People are usually "born" with brains. I think I learned that kind of stuff in elementary school. Haha, you must have picked a bad brain, so why don't you go read what I wrote, realize you're wrong, go back to elementary school so you can understand how human beings work, and then answer the question Whodi. I don't give two craps what xan said, that's his opinion, and he didn't even answer my question. His response: Who sucks more? The AB led offense. Why are the Saints losing? The AB led offense. is a response to the question, who should be blamed for our losses. My question was "shouldn't the defense be blamed for the last drive?" Do I have to spoon feed this all to you SW?
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928