I have to state the case for relocation.

mjf150 · 11-30-2005, 05:54 PM

I don't like bringing this to the attention of others, but not talking about it does not do it justice. These are the facts:

New Orleans is a small market by NFL standards, even before Katrina devastated the city.
Most of those who lived in NO prior to the storm have relocated to Baton Rouge, many intend to stay.
Baton Rouge is currently larger than NO, and by all analysts estimates, will remain permanently larger than NO.
Baton Rouge absorbed not only many of the former citizens of NO, but many of the businesses have relocated as well.
People and corporations are a major factor in the placement of NFL teams.
Geographically speaking, BR is the most centrally located city in the state.
The commisioner has adamently stated that he would like the Saints to remain in Louisiana, if possible.
The commisioner also stated that the team needed to better regionalize itself, which could include renaming the team to better represent the state.
If the team were to leave Louisiana, the prospects of receiving another team are slim, at best.
A state of the art stadium, financed by Louisiana taxpayers, is one of the major sticking points on whether or not the Saints will remain in the state.
Tiger stadium is indeed a state of the art facility already built and paid for by the taxpayers.

All of these leads me to believe that the team and the fans would be better off if the team were to relocate to Baton Rouge permanently. Thank you for hearing me out.

Tobias-Reiper · 11-30-2005, 06:47 PM

.. fair enough...

... the only counter-point that I have, is the TV ratings experienced during the Colts-Pittsburgh game, with an estimated viewership of 11,930,000 million.

It wouldn't matter if they were the Houma Saints.. if they'd win games, people would watch, buy the shirt/hat/whatnot, and find a way to make it to the game. Advertising revenues would come from national sources, not just the city of New Orleans.

saintswhodi · 11-30-2005, 08:40 PM

Gotta agree with that TR. Winning breeds fans. Sure, all of us are die hards, but you don't gain fans by losing all the time. We need some winning, that's all.

Euphoria · 11-30-2005, 08:40 PM

I also disagree that the city won't rebound. I mean its a great port city and in due time the jobs will come and the rebuilding will happend, it may take years but it'll happen. The problem with taking the Saints out of New Orleans is that an NFL team will never return to New Orleans. I see it there is only two options, NFL forces Benson to keep the Saints there, and or force him to sale to Terry Bradshaw.

spkb25 · 11-30-2005, 09:46 PM

well i think you all live in a dream world. why do you think we are never mentioned even when we are winning. i know it hasn't been in some time but man when we were making he playoffs year in and year out in the 80's i tryed to get some saints gear up in jersey. couldn't find it. they had the jets though. remind you this is south jersey. south jersey aren't jest or giants fans. and this was a year the jets wen't like 3-13. i don't want to se the saints leave new orleans and in my opinion the city will rebuild. i don't think it is possible it won't. but how quickly is the question. i think that is the one to be answered and i think the real answer is to long for the saints. oh and just in case i didn't remember to say fukkk nagin.

xan · 11-30-2005, 11:53 PM

There's always an argument against doing anything. The key in making yourself successful is getting in at the bottom and riding the wave to the top. There's a serious price to pay for getting in at the top of the market...

My guess is that the NFL will want a "relocation fee" from the team if it decides to move to another market, just as they got the fee from the Houston syndicate for the franchise. Opportunity cost of bringing in another franchise vs. relocation. The Houston syndicate paid over $700 million to the current owners to buy in, and my guess is that LA would be about $1Billion. Benson's going to have to argue that his team's gonna bring in that much to the existing ownership to justify the move there. As for SA, he's got to get public money, and that's not going to happen. If the Saints go to Baton Rouge, so what? People drive that far to get fried catfish. They're still the Saints.

Tobias-Reiper · 12-01-2005, 12:17 AM

Originally Posted by spkb25

well i think you all live in a dream world. why do you think we are never mentioned even when we are winning. i know it hasn't been in some time but man when we were making he playoffs year in and year out in the 80's i tryed to get some saints gear up in jersey. couldn't find it. they had the jets though. remind you this is south jersey. south jersey aren't jest or giants fans. and this was a year the jets wen't like 3-13. i don't want to se the saints leave new orleans and in my opinion the city will rebuild. i don't think it is possible it won't. but how quickly is the question. i think that is the one to be answered and i think the real answer is to long for the saints. oh and just in case i didn't remember to say fukkk nagin.

.. I think you are stretching it a little, buddy

"The 80's" was basically 87-90. You probably couldn't find Saints gear in New Jersey, but you probably could find 40Whiners gear.... and after the 40Whiners in th eearly 90's, Cowboys gear...

WhoDat · 12-01-2005, 12:32 AM

New Orleans is a small market by NFL standards, even before Katrina devastated the city.

Which is totally relevant if you ignore the fact that they get the BEST subsidy of any team in the league which keeps them in the top 10 in revenue year in and year out.

Most of those who lived in NO prior to the storm have relocated to Baton Rouge, many intend to stay.

Sure - which again is relevant if you ignore the fact that eventually sweet deals will be given for economic development (see Trump buying everything in NO), new infrastructure will be developed, and the fact that prime real estate in and aroung the CBD will not be left idle... oh, and the fact that the truly important parts of the city like the Garden District, Uptown, Metairie, etc. were minimally affected by the storm - comparatively speaking.

Baton Rouge is currently larger than NO, and by all analysts estimates, will remain permanently larger than NO.

LMAO. All analyst estimates? LMAO. Name one. I guess this is relevant if you don't count any of the surrounding parishes - especially Jefferson. In 3 to 5 years, New Orleans will be LARGER than it was before the storm, and Baton Rouge will go back to being LSU... and oh yeah, the capital...

Geographically speaking, BR is the most centrally located city in the state.

Which is relevant if you ignore the fact that there are fewer major rail and road thoroughfares, and most importantly, it's missing that one little thing. What's that? Oh yeah - the busiest port in the nation which cycles through 60% of the country's aggricultural product.

A state of the art stadium, financed by Louisiana taxpayers, is one of the major sticking points on whether or not the Saints will remain in the state.
Tiger stadium is indeed a state of the art facility already built and paid for by the taxpayers.

State of the Art? If by old, not NFL-caliber, and completely insufficient for NFL standards - sure I agree.

All of these leads me to believe that the team and the fans would be better off if the team were to relocate to Baton Rouge permanently.

Sure. Tagliabue said no small markets to San Antonio, but he'd be really excited to move the team to about the 135th largest market in the country.

Euphoria · 12-01-2005, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by spkb25

well i think you all live in a dream world. why do you think we are never mentioned even when we are winning. i know it hasn't been in some time but man when we were making he playoffs year in and year out in the 80's i tryed to get some saints gear up in jersey. couldn't find it. they had the jets though. remind you this is south jersey. south jersey aren't jest or giants fans. and this was a year the jets wen't like 3-13. i don't want to se the saints leave new orleans and in my opinion the city will rebuild. i don't think it is possible it won't. but how quickly is the question. i think that is the one to be answered and i think the real answer is to long for the saints. oh and just in case i didn't remember to say fukkk nagin.

Saints are mentioned all the time... they get even more attention when they are winning. This year alone they have been in the media one of the most years of any even (hurricane). I was in the military for many years and I will tell you I moved a lot and even I had found problems getting stuff, but I asked the owners of the store and they would order stuff or let me know that they order stuff for there store because that area demands those items duh... they also try and predict which teams make the playoffs and stock some of those items... you have to admit betting on the Saints isn't a safe bet ANY YEAR. In recent years though I have found Saints stuff in VA, DC, NY, FLA, Bahrain, Kuwait, and even in San Diego CA.
You can build millions of homes and buildings but ya need a population to be in them... the proplem here is that there are many people who have found a better life for themselves out side of New Orleans now, for some the Hurricane was a blessing in discuise, so the bebuilding is going to take many years fighting a double edge sword, buildings/jobs, and population.

xan · 12-01-2005, 11:58 AM

I read an analysis somewhat recently as to the popularity of NFL gear. It seems that after affiliation, fans buy gear that they can wear with many outfits. Black dominant teams seem to sell more than any other color, and the Saints sell way above what you would expect for the fan base. Oakland is #1 then the Saints.

The economic base of New Orleans is:
#1 Tourism (including hotels and restaurants)
#2 Oil and Gas services
#3 Port
#4 Health Care
#5 Education
#6 Legal (5th Circuit Court of Appeals, maritime, etc.)

Which of these exactly are going to relocate to Baton Rouge?? Don't bull**** a bull****ter.

11-30-2005, 05:54 PM	#1
mjf150 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 752	I have to state the case for relocation. I don't like bringing this to the attention of others, but not talking about it does not do it justice. These are the facts: New Orleans is a small market by NFL standards, even before Katrina devastated the city. Most of those who lived in NO prior to the storm have relocated to Baton Rouge, many intend to stay. Baton Rouge is currently larger than NO, and by all analysts estimates, will remain permanently larger than NO. Baton Rouge absorbed not only many of the former citizens of NO, but many of the businesses have relocated as well. People and corporations are a major factor in the placement of NFL teams. Geographically speaking, BR is the most centrally located city in the state. The commisioner has adamently stated that he would like the Saints to remain in Louisiana, if possible. The commisioner also stated that the team needed to better regionalize itself, which could include renaming the team to better represent the state. If the team were to leave Louisiana, the prospects of receiving another team are slim, at best. A state of the art stadium, financed by Louisiana taxpayers, is one of the major sticking points on whether or not the Saints will remain in the state. Tiger stadium is indeed a state of the art facility already built and paid for by the taxpayers. All of these leads me to believe that the team and the fans would be better off if the team were to relocate to Baton Rouge permanently. Thank you for hearing me out.
mjf150 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 752

11-30-2005, 09:46 PM	#5
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,101	RE: I have to state the case for relocation. well i think you all live in a dream world. why do you think we are never mentioned even when we are winning. i know it hasn't been in some time but man when we were making he playoffs year in and year out in the 80's i tryed to get some saints gear up in jersey. couldn't find it. they had the jets though. remind you this is south jersey. south jersey aren't jest or giants fans. and this was a year the jets wen't like 3-13. i don't want to se the saints leave new orleans and in my opinion the city will rebuild. i don't think it is possible it won't. but how quickly is the question. i think that is the one to be answered and i think the real answer is to long for the saints. oh and just in case i didn't remember to say fukkk nagin.
	Your team stinks

12-01-2005, 12:17 AM	#7
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Re: RE: I have to state the case for relocation. Originally Posted by spkb25 well i think you all live in a dream world. why do you think we are never mentioned even when we are winning. i know it hasn't been in some time but man when we were making he playoffs year in and year out in the 80's i tryed to get some saints gear up in jersey. couldn't find it. they had the jets though. remind you this is south jersey. south jersey aren't jest or giants fans. and this was a year the jets wen't like 3-13. i don't want to se the saints leave new orleans and in my opinion the city will rebuild. i don't think it is possible it won't. but how quickly is the question. i think that is the one to be answered and i think the real answer is to long for the saints. oh and just in case i didn't remember to say fukkk nagin. .. I think you are stretching it a little, buddy "The 80's" was basically 87-90. You probably couldn't find Saints gear in New Jersey, but you probably could find 40Whiners gear.... and after the 40Whiners in th eearly 90's, Cowboys gear...

12-01-2005, 12:32 AM	#8
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	RE: Re: RE: I have to state the case for relocation. New Orleans is a small market by NFL standards, even before Katrina devastated the city. Which is totally relevant if you ignore the fact that they get the BEST subsidy of any team in the league which keeps them in the top 10 in revenue year in and year out. Most of those who lived in NO prior to the storm have relocated to Baton Rouge, many intend to stay. Sure - which again is relevant if you ignore the fact that eventually sweet deals will be given for economic development (see Trump buying everything in NO), new infrastructure will be developed, and the fact that prime real estate in and aroung the CBD will not be left idle... oh, and the fact that the truly important parts of the city like the Garden District, Uptown, Metairie, etc. were minimally affected by the storm - comparatively speaking. Baton Rouge is currently larger than NO, and by all analysts estimates, will remain permanently larger than NO. LMAO. All analyst estimates? LMAO. Name one. I guess this is relevant if you don't count any of the surrounding parishes - especially Jefferson. In 3 to 5 years, New Orleans will be LARGER than it was before the storm, and Baton Rouge will go back to being LSU... and oh yeah, the capital... Geographically speaking, BR is the most centrally located city in the state. Which is relevant if you ignore the fact that there are fewer major rail and road thoroughfares, and most importantly, it's missing that one little thing. What's that? Oh yeah - the busiest port in the nation which cycles through 60% of the country's aggricultural product. A state of the art stadium, financed by Louisiana taxpayers, is one of the major sticking points on whether or not the Saints will remain in the state. Tiger stadium is indeed a state of the art facility already built and paid for by the taxpayers. State of the Art? If by old, not NFL-caliber, and completely insufficient for NFL standards - sure I agree. All of these leads me to believe that the team and the fans would be better off if the team were to relocate to Baton Rouge permanently. Sure. Tagliabue said no small markets to San Antonio, but he'd be really excited to move the team to about the 135th largest market in the country.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

12-01-2005, 11:15 AM	#9
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: RE: I have to state the case for relocation. Originally Posted by spkb25 well i think you all live in a dream world. why do you think we are never mentioned even when we are winning. i know it hasn't been in some time but man when we were making he playoffs year in and year out in the 80's i tryed to get some saints gear up in jersey. couldn't find it. they had the jets though. remind you this is south jersey. south jersey aren't jest or giants fans. and this was a year the jets wen't like 3-13. i don't want to se the saints leave new orleans and in my opinion the city will rebuild. i don't think it is possible it won't. but how quickly is the question. i think that is the one to be answered and i think the real answer is to long for the saints. oh and just in case i didn't remember to say fukkk nagin. Saints are mentioned all the time... they get even more attention when they are winning. This year alone they have been in the media one of the most years of any even (hurricane). I was in the military for many years and I will tell you I moved a lot and even I had found problems getting stuff, but I asked the owners of the store and they would order stuff or let me know that they order stuff for there store because that area demands those items duh... they also try and predict which teams make the playoffs and stock some of those items... you have to admit betting on the Saints isn't a safe bet ANY YEAR. In recent years though I have found Saints stuff in VA, DC, NY, FLA, Bahrain, Kuwait, and even in San Diego CA. You can build millions of homes and buildings but ya need a population to be in them... the proplem here is that there are many people who have found a better life for themselves out side of New Orleans now, for some the Hurricane was a blessing in discuise, so the bebuilding is going to take many years fighting a double edge sword, buildings/jobs, and population.

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11-30-2005, 06:47 PM	#2
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	RE: I have to state the case for relocation. .. fair enough... ... the only counter-point that I have, is the TV ratings experienced during the Colts-Pittsburgh game, with an estimated viewership of 11,930,000 million. It wouldn't matter if they were the Houma Saints.. if they'd win games, people would watch, buy the shirt/hat/whatnot, and find a way to make it to the game. Advertising revenues would come from national sources, not just the city of New Orleans.

11-30-2005, 08:40 PM	#3
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Gotta agree with that TR. Winning breeds fans. Sure, all of us are die hards, but you don't gain fans by losing all the time. We need some winning, that's all.

11-30-2005, 11:53 PM	#6
xan Professor Crab and Site Donor 2014 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Princeton Posts: 3,371 Blog Entries: 34	RE: I have to state the case for relocation. There's always an argument against doing anything. The key in making yourself successful is getting in at the bottom and riding the wave to the top. There's a serious price to pay for getting in at the top of the market... My guess is that the NFL will want a "relocation fee" from the team if it decides to move to another market, just as they got the fee from the Houston syndicate for the franchise. Opportunity cost of bringing in another franchise vs. relocation. The Houston syndicate paid over $700 million to the current owners to buy in, and my guess is that LA would be about $1Billion. Benson's going to have to argue that his team's gonna bring in that much to the existing ownership to justify the move there. As for SA, he's got to get public money, and that's not going to happen. If the Saints go to Baton Rouge, so what? People drive that far to get fried catfish. They're still the Saints.

12-01-2005, 11:58 AM	#10
xan Professor Crab and Site Donor 2014 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Princeton Posts: 3,371 Blog Entries: 34	RE: Re: RE: I have to state the case for relocation. I read an analysis somewhat recently as to the popularity of NFL gear. It seems that after affiliation, fans buy gear that they can wear with many outfits. Black dominant teams seem to sell more than any other color, and the Saints sell way above what you would expect for the fan base. Oakland is #1 then the Saints. The economic base of New Orleans is: #1 Tourism (including hotels and restaurants) #2 Oil and Gas services #3 Port #4 Health Care #5 Education #6 Legal (5th Circuit Court of Appeals, maritime, etc.) Which of these exactly are going to relocate to Baton Rouge?? Don't bull** a bull**ter.