What's a defense win? Because, I'm pretty sure that if a team didn't have an offense, it would be impossible for a defense to win all by itself. So I'm not really sure what fact you're alluding to...

Damn, dude, you are stupid. Could have kept it all in the smack talk forum, but you make my life a helluvalot easier by posting this crap in the public forums....a place where it doesn't belong....a place where I can touch you.

Consider this your swan song. Tired of reading the bull****.

Ouch!!! That'll leave a mark! :wink:

About damn time. Good man BNB.

Does that mean Win is gone?

I think he means a win that was basically earned by defensive play...kinda like the entire season for the Bears this year or most of the Saints '91 - '92 campaign. But anyway.....I am not an attorney and Winwin is not my client. ;0) I also noticed something....is Frerotte a free agent?

sure as hell wasn't a promotion.

I Love ya'll...... :D

No way. Please tell me you're just kidding and you weren't seriously going to ask if we could pick up Frerotte....

You would rather get Kitna? I live in Miami....Toward the end of the season Frerotte started to do very well. After all the Dolphins did win their last 7 games.

Let's hope that doesn't happen. It seems just about every player that makes the cover of Madden seems to get hurt the following season. We have enough injuries on this team.

Guys, there are better QB's in free agency than Kitna & Frerotte. How about David Garrard?

Unfortunately ghandi...I am such a stickler for Saints and Dolphins games that.......I have no idea who you mentioned. Can you help me out?

One more thing....all this talk about Lienart and Young and the second coming of Jesus Christ...what about McPhereson?? I thought he had the "tools."

David Garrard is Jacksonville's backup QB. Guy had one heck of a season after Leftwich got hurt. He is very mobile & his awareness & accuracy helped lead the Jaguars to the playoffs this year. If you want to know about his college career, he was East Carolina's QB when they actually had that ranked team the year the hurricane hit them.

If we're going to let AB go, then we draft Leinart and bring in Kitna for one year. That's my plan. But I still think Leinart can start right away.

Deuce? I can't agree with that. At least not completely. I think we need to focus our draft on defense and find some decent offensive FA pickups. A reciever, a lineman, and a FA QB. Now I say that as the common sense plan (IMHO anyway) but I would retract if I could find a list of available FA QB's and saw that the list was nothing but garbage. If that is the case then I would have to go with Deuce. It is imperative that we let Brooks go for the sake of the cap. 6 million is gooooood FA money.

Fatius, I posted a link to a listing of all the free agents availible in the "Free Agency" thread

He won his last 6 games but I'm feelin ya Jeebs. I am going to put up the link and you guys take a look for yourself. 8 TDS and 3 INTS and only 3 fumbles the last 6 games and only lost 1 of them. You guys do the rest of the math. The stats are not great but he found a way to win and he didn't screw it up. I think he would be a great pickup even as a starter for next season. If we get Leinart next year let him sit the bench like he is going to anyway and let Ferotte give us a chance to win. Kitna, Ferotte, Collins, Volek, Harrington and Schaub should be our top targets in FA.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpag.../gamelogs/2005

Schaub would be the only guy on that list I would go after. Harrington just doesn't have it, Collins is a washed up drunk, and Volek, Kitna, & Frerotte are nothing more than career backups. :? :? Schaub, on the other hand is the real deal. Unfortunately, Atlanta's not going to let him go, especially to a division rival. :x :x

Agreed on all but Volek. You can't lump him in with this group, he went off with the Titans when McNair went down 2 years ago and I think they are holding onto him for McNair's retirement.

I think Volek can start: 26 TDs 13 INTs 86.9 career rating 60.1 comp %

That's in 10 career starts thrown in with a bunch of mop up duty. Compare those numbers to the starters in the league from this year. (His playing time equates to a bit over a full year as a starter when you throw in all the spot duty.) Those numbers are far from career back up. I would take Volek in a second.

As for Schaub, I agree. He seems to be a solid QB, but we're not getting him.

First of all, Frerotte at one point was the starter and a good one for the Redskins(until he realized that he did not know how to celebrate after a touchdown...lol) Had his little journeyman episode and now he wins 6 in a row here in Miami. First year at 9-7? Thats not bad. I watched some of the Dolphin games and the guy looked poised. Not too clumsy...made many smart throws. I'm not saying he is the be all end all answer for the Saints but....the guy can handle things pretty well. I agree with the Scaub deal but I guess we can't get him. As far as Volek...I never saw him but his numbers look real good according to yasson's post. Carreer backups are not always a bad thing....look at Chris Chandler before he came to Atlanta....we all know where he to those filthy chickens.

I could be wrong, but I've just never had a good feeling about Frerotte. I think he's a guy who can win a few games when the situation is right, but not necessarily carry the team. But, he might be a good one year fill in with a rookie behind him.

You are wrong...DEAD WRONG!!!!!!!!!!! LOL...just kidding. Seriously though, I dunno yasoon....my gut instincts tell me that we can survive with a decent FA pickup as long as we beef up our defense. I believe it all starts with defense. Hell look at the bears....zero offense and yet they make the playoffs. We have a lot of offense pieces in place. A decent and smart arm...maybe a lineman and/or a reciever and we are set. BEEF UP THE D!!!!

Schaub, GIVE UP THE # 2 he is starter and trade down in the draft asap
Garrard - hmm he did well but......... way to many ????????
Frerotte, Kitna, Volek - Draft a QB in the next 2 years. We will have a pick in the top 5 with them at the helm

Interesting gambles. Just past the 3 year learning curve for QB's.
Harrington - never had a good line or running game. So the jury is out on him still
Pennington - always was open to the blind side and has burried that shoulder so many times. but has showed flashes

Collins - I hate to say this but he does know Payton,s sytsem. Yet he does know the N.O. nightlife too

If I had to list them in order I'd take Harrington, Schaub,or Volek. I think Harrington has gotten a bad rap. He played for Detroit for gods sake. But seriously I think he has what it takes if given a ticket out of Detroit. He has the arm strength and the vision. It seems like his recievers are always dropping catchable balls. Hold on this all sounds familiar.

Schaub should be the starter in Atlanta. Nuff said. but unlikly to be moving.


Volek - maybe out of Tenn. But I think that will depend on who is taken at the number one. Volek deserves a chance to start some where.

Frerotte did not have a bad year and he played well enough to maintain the starters role.

I think Gerrard is alot like what we currently have with less fumbles and a little less accurate.

Beyond that I don't think there is anyone else worth bringing in for the money. Pennington has seen his one good year, and he will not see another. He could barley throw before the first sergery and could not make the throws after.

Hey BJSim...thanks for the link. I did not realize the amount of good names that are becoming FA's. By looking at this list I have come to the realization that we must let Brooks go. You can argue all day about why but the truth is there is a multitude of good free agents out there and the 6 million he is gonna cost us just became a lot more valuable than I had originally thought. I actually wrote a list of names from each team's FA list and a few of these pickups would have a great impact on our team on both sides of the ball. You guys should look at the link he posted and see for yourself.

http://www.askthecommish.com/freeagency/2006.asp

Its Matt Leinart............

I'd settle for the jack asses myself...

What's the question?

Quick quiz: Who is the last Top-3 QB pick to lead their team to a winning record as a starter in their rookie season?

Big Ben was a #11 pick. Look elsewhere.

SFIAH

I'm tellin you guys....we need a decent FA QB. I would rather trade down.,....load up on draft picks loaded with speed and pick up some FA's. We will be better off that way than coughing up millions to a QB we are not even sure will do well.

Yeah, that's worked out well for us the last few drafts.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Hey ghandi. I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic or not (which I don't mind either way..;0) I believe in the Jimmy Johnson model. When he was hired to coach the Cowboys the first thing he did was stock up his defense with speed. Did it work? I remember that year even though we had the Dome Patrol defense it was JJ's defense that was ranked number one in the league. That's right a no-name defense loaded with extremely fast rookies and FA's. Well...after a few years we all saw what the Cowboy's did throughout the 90's. We need picks, picks, and more picks, so we can acquire, speed, speed, and yes....MORE SPEED!

Yes, I must admit I was being sarcastic. LOL. You see, we did this same thing under Haslett the last few years in both the draft & free agency: Courtney Watson, Tebucky Jones, etc... The only problem: None of these guys can tackle or cover. You have to have guys who read the field well, tackle solidly, & cover well. Speed, though an added bonus, is not always the answer. Here are some examples: Ty Law- great cover corner, but not a blazer as opposed to some other CB's. Tedy Bruschi- great LB w/ great field vision & solid tackling-not that fast. Rodney Harrison- Again, not that fast, but great in coverage & a solid tackler. These three guys also played on the same team that won 3 Super Bowls. The Patriots saw this method worked. So should we. Though speed has become the main focus of the league, it doesn't necessarily help you win championships. Here's another fact: The best receiver to ever play the game, Jerry Rice, was considered slow by NFL standards (4.69 forty time). I don't even have to say how his career worked out.

P.S.- That Cowboys team you mentioned weren't all no-namers. The year they were #1, there were future Hall of Famers on that team by the names of Ken Norton, Jr. & "Prime Time" Deion Sanders.

Ghandi... I see your point.....and according to your point of view then the problem Haslett did have was not the players but it was the coaching. It takes a good coach to teach a fast player how to read the field better.
Last note....Deion was still a Falcon that year and Ken Norton was only in his second year(I think...I know he was still very young during that year.) The key word is FUTURE Hall of Famer. If payton has hired a good group...then I don't see why we can't acheieve the same results that the Cowboys of the 90's did. SPEEEEEEEEED! I'm out...;0)

I never said that he would be like big ben .............. damn............
but i do think we will be in the running for the playoffs........ maybe.........

Leinart has to be your answer to some question. I'm just trying to figure out what the question is?

Please explain how Leinart is going to bring as much value to the Saints as trading down for multiple, and presumably productive picks.

I just want to see what more Leinart is other than the safe conservative pick that everyone expects the Saints to make.

Well then we're back to my original question: what top 3 rookie QB had a winning record in their rookie season. And in order for it to be meaningful let's limit the entries to QBs who started a minimum of 8 games.

How many "Starting QB's" have left one team and become successful in their first year with another?

How many QBs have been marginal under on coaching regime and flourished under a successor?

Lots of questions. I'm not too sure there are any sure answers beyond the fact that rookie QBs at the very top of draft are are rarely successful early in their careers. I know quite well that's due to the team that the QB is drafted to.

Even if Leinart is the guy, it's going to be 2-3 years before his talent comes to bear. So the question is that potential talent worth picking?

SFIAH

There have been some QB's picked in the top of their perspective draft classes that did well in their first years. Do the names Montana, Elway, or Marino ring any bells? If I'm not mistaken, Marino took the Dolphins to the Super Bowl in his first season. Though most take a season or two before becoming stars, I think Leinart will upgrade the QB position for us as a rookie simply by playing smarter than what Brooks has. Not to mention, this guy knows how to lead his receivers & can actually learn an entire playbook.

Playbook was not cut...Verbage was cut. Just cause the man can't speak right or look at film is no reason to poke fun.