Payton interested in Cutler?

saintswhodi · 02-28-2006, 12:17 PM

Thuth is, however, the man has had the best of the best and he really doesn't know what pressure is.

This statement right here shows how clueless you are. Leinart didn't have pressure? Did you see UsC's defense this year? Fresno freaking state scoed like 40 something points on them. AND they were REPEATEDLY down at the half in almost all of their games early in the season, and had to come back to win. No Pressure? LMAO!! As if being the number one team in the country and staying that way isn't pressure. I wonder if some of you guys have anything above a basic understanding of football. Seriously.

TheDeuce · 02-28-2006, 12:27 PM

Look at the teams played on the talent around them and the conference....Then make an evaluation. When it comes to numbers, makes all the difference in the world.

Guys, just because he had talented players around him doesn't mean that he's not a good QB. Good teams are good because they have good players. USC didn't just build up a championship-caliber team at 21 positions and then say "Hey, well we have all these positions covered, but we just need a QB. But hell, ANYBODY can play QB on this team." No, that just doesn't happen. They built a championship-caliber team with championship-caliber players at EVERY position. Leinart earned a spot on the best team in the country, so that should tell you something. There's a reason he got a scholarship to a powerhouse like USC, so maybe there's a reason why Cutler had to go to Vandy. Another point, the balls don't throw themselves. Somebody with ridiculous accuracy and touch had to be making all of those throws in order to rack up 3800 yards. It doesn't matter how talented your receivers are, if you make good throws, you're still going to get completions. Leinart just took advantage of it. And if you still want to try and play the "awww poor Cutler played on a bad team so we should pity him" game, then look at the following passing stats:

NAME CMP ATT YDS CMP% YDS/A TD INT SACKS RAT
1. Colt Brennan, Hawaii 350 515 4301 68.0 8.4 35 13 34 155.49
2. Cody Hodges, Texas Tech 353 531 4238 66.5 8.0 31 12 34 148.26
3. Brady Quinn, N Dame 292 450 3919 64.9 8.7 32 7 20 158.40
4. Matt Leinart, USC 283 431 3815 65.7 8.9 28 8 17 157.74
5. John Beck, BYU 331 513 3709 64.5 7.2 27 13 25 137.55
6. Brett Basanez, N'western 314 497 3622 63.2 7.3 21 8 10 135.12
7. Jordan Palmer, UTEP 258 434 3503 59.4 8.1 29 19 27 140.54
8. Luke Getsy, Akron 278 525 3455 53.0 6.6 23 12 20 118.12
9. Paul Pinegar, Fresno St 265 416 3335 63.7 8.0 30 15 14 147.63
10. Kevin Kolb, Houston 253 419 3248 60.4 7.8 19 15 29 133.30
11. Drew Weatherford, Florida St 276 469 3220 58.8 6.9 18 18 23 121.51
12. Drew Olson, UCLA 242 378 3198 64.0 8.5 34 6 25 161.59
13. Justin Holland, Colo St 235 369 3185 63.7 8.6 23 15 23 148.63
14. Darrell Hackney, UAB 242 386 3180 62.7 8.2 22 12 15 144.48
15. Josh Betts, Miami (OH) 248 434 3178 57.1 7.3 27 13 15 133.20
16. Drew Stanton, Mich St 236 355 3077 66.5 8.7 22 12 23 152.98
17. Jay Cutler, Vanderbilt 273 462 3073 59.1 6.7 21 9 23 126.07
18. Vince Young, Texas 212 325 3036 65.2 9.3 26 10 13 163.95

Guys like Colt Brennan (68% completion percentage) and Brett Basanez (63.2%) didn't play on very good teams, yet they still outshined in comparison to Cutler. And what about Vince Young? He has one of the most talented teams in the country, yet he wasn't able to crack the top ten in yards. Why? Because even though you play on a talented team, you still have to be a damn good QB to make throws in college football. Leinart made all the throws. Against ND, against Fresno State, against Texas, against UCLA. So basically the whole point is, it doesn't matter how good your wide receivers are, it's still up to the QUARTERBACK to throw the balls to them.
If you want to further go with the "he had so much talent but he'll suck in the NFL" argument, look at guys like Carson Palmer and Peyton Manning who had tons of talent in college but are now Pro-Bowl QBs. And what about guys like Eli Manning? He had no good WRs, yet he still put up better numbers than Cutler. And he was in the SEC....

NAME CMP ATT YDS CMP% YDS/A TD INT SACKS RAT
Jay Cutler, Vanderbilt 273 462 3073 59.1 6.7 21 9 23 126.07
Eli Manning, Ole Miss 275 441 3600 62.4 8.2 29 10 19 148.09

Eli played on a bad team. Nobody on that offense (except a guy named Stacy Andrews, OT, who went to Cincy in the fourth round) went to the draft. Yet Eli still found a way to complete 62.4% of his passes... Hmmmmm. how do you think that happened? If his team is so bad, how did he do it? Because he was good. It shouldn't matter about how good your team is, a QB should still be able to make it so much better, and CUtler didn't. Eli threw less passes for more yards, touchdowns, a better average, and a better QB rating. Not to mention that he had less sacks.

So what have we learned today? It's not about how good or bad your team is. As you can see from guys like Eli Manning and Brett Basanez who quarterbacked for teams with talent nowhere near the level of Leinart's USC team, you can still put up good numbers because it's not about your team, it's about you. Cutler had a pretty good year, but Leinart's was amazing. You can't blame Cutler's team for his shortcomings because guys like Eli Manning and Brett Basanez played on bad teams in really good conferences and were still able to produce.

TheDeuce · 02-28-2006, 12:34 PM

From Mel Kiper:

Jay Cutler, Vanderbilt (6-4, 230)
He is fast becoming one of the most overhyped players in this draft. Cutler was OK, but not great, at the Senior Bowl, but he's drawing all these rave reviews at the NFL scouting combine. He hasn't done anything at the combine that has wowed me to move him up in the draft.

Jay Cutler is going to be a top-15 pick, but does not rank as high QBs Matt Leinart or Vince Young.
Cutler hasn't improved his draft position by what he did at the Senior Bowl or combine. He had a good senior season and finished strong. If you like Cutler based on how he finished the season, that's fine, but don't think that he's moved up dramatically based on the Senior Bowl and combine.

He's going to go in the top 15 of the first round and might even go in the top five. But what he's done since the season ended doesn't put him up with Matt Leinart or Vince Young.

I still have him in the top 10 of the draft, but you shouldn't think he'll be a top-three pick.

Overhyped indeed. I'll trust the guy who's been doing this job and has seen guys like this get overhyped since before I was born.

saintswhodi · 02-28-2006, 12:47 PM

Damn Deuce. DAMN!!!! Knockout blow delivered. How can ANYONE argue with that? BUT, when you still have love love Aaron Brooks............................................

FatiusJeebs · 02-28-2006, 12:50 PM

You call the reporting from a guy who gets paid to talk a lot about draft prospects and give HIS 2 cents on the matter a knockout blow? LOl..you guys are desperate.

One more thing....the only person still talkin about Brooks....is you. ;0)

gandhi1007 · 02-28-2006, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by Euphoria

Originally Posted by gandhi1007

C'mon.

O.K., Cutler had a lack of talent at Vandy. He still didn't win. Tom Brady, during their 1st championship year, had a lack of talent as well. Their starting RB is now our 2nd-3rd stringer. He had receivers like Troy Brown & David Patten (hardly Pro Bowl material) & he won the Super Bowl. Brooks, who had far more talent on offense than Brady consistently killed his team. However, it is pointless to argue with you, because you are obviously hellbent on hating Leinart & defending Brooks. But ponder this: If Leinart was not that good, would the Jets be willing to give up John Abraham (a perrenial Pro-Bowler) & a sh**load of picks to move up to get him?

Hold the phone... I can't seem to collect any thoughts after reading this... Brooks has more talent around him than Brady??? Did I read this correctly??? You my friend should definately give up being a fan of football, and I am taking your Saints fan ID card, and revoking your manhood.

I'll take your opinion with a grain of salt considering you list yourself as the president of the Jason Craft fan club (a guy who couldn't cover dog sh** with a Sunday edition of the Time Picayune). But I'll humor you. Let's just look at the 2 offenses in 2001:

New England: New Orleans: Advantage:
RB-Antowain Smith RB-Ricky Williams New Orleans
#1 WR-Troy Brown #1 WR-Joe Horn New Orleans
O-Line O-Line New Orleans

The only advantage that New England had on offense in 2001 was at the QB position. They had Drew Bledsoe & Tom Brady. We had Smiley "the human turnover" Aaron Brooks. Brooks did have more talent around him on offense in 2001.

saintswhodi · 02-28-2006, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by FatiusJeebs

You call the reporting from a guy who gets paid to talk a lot about draft prospects and give HIS 2 cents on the matter a knockout blow? LOl..you guys are desperate.

One more thing....the only person still talkin about Brooks....is you. ;0)

LMAO. It's sad you tried to ignore Deuce's post prior to the Kiper one, which WAS the knockout blow I was referring to. No comeback for that one hey? Priceless. You slayed 'em Deuce.

BlackandBlue · 02-28-2006, 01:05 PM

I'll take your opinion with a grain of salt considering you list yourself as the president of the Jason Craft fan club (a guy who couldn't cover dog sh** with a Sunday edition of the Time Picayune).

Titles are not user manipulated. I give titles out, as I deem fit. Most are meant as a joke.....

saintswhodi · 02-28-2006, 01:11 PM

All jokes have an element of truth to them, and Euph WAS pimping Craft pretty hard as our best corner, so..................................................................................................................

I would say maybe you should change it to pres of the Aaron Brooks fan club, but I wouldn't want a riot to start for all the others who want the title.

gandhi1007 · 02-28-2006, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by BlackandBlue

I'll take your opinion with a grain of salt considering you list yourself as the president of the Jason Craft fan club (a guy who couldn't cover dog sh** with a Sunday edition of the Time Picayune).

Titles are not user manipulated. I give titles out, as I deem fit. Most are meant as a joke.....

In that case, I retract my comments...except for the point that New Orleans had more talent on offense than New England in 2001.

My bad...my bad...

02-28-2006, 12:17 PM	#41
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Payton intereste Thuth is, however, the man has had the best of the best and he really doesn't know what pressure is. This statement right here shows how clueless you are. Leinart didn't have pressure? Did you see UsC's defense this year? Fresno freaking state scoed like 40 something points on them. AND they were REPEATEDLY down at the half in almost all of their games early in the season, and had to come back to win. No Pressure? LMAO!! As if being the number one team in the country and staying that way isn't pressure. I wonder if some of you guys have anything above a basic understanding of football. Seriously.

02-28-2006, 12:27 PM	#42
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928	RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Payton interested in Look at the teams played on the talent around them and the conference....Then make an evaluation. When it comes to numbers, makes all the difference in the world. Guys, just because he had talented players around him doesn't mean that he's not a good QB. Good teams are good because they have good players. USC didn't just build up a championship-caliber team at 21 positions and then say "Hey, well we have all these positions covered, but we just need a QB. But hell, ANYBODY can play QB on this team." No, that just doesn't happen. They built a championship-caliber team with championship-caliber players at EVERY position. Leinart earned a spot on the best team in the country, so that should tell you something. There's a reason he got a scholarship to a powerhouse like USC, so maybe there's a reason why Cutler had to go to Vandy. Another point, the balls don't throw themselves. Somebody with ridiculous accuracy and touch had to be making all of those throws in order to rack up 3800 yards. It doesn't matter how talented your receivers are, if you make good throws, you're still going to get completions. Leinart just took advantage of it. And if you still want to try and play the "awww poor Cutler played on a bad team so we should pity him" game, then look at the following passing stats: NAME CMP ATT YDS CMP% YDS/A TD INT SACKS RAT 1. Colt Brennan, Hawaii 350 515 4301 68.0 8.4 35 13 34 155.49 2. Cody Hodges, Texas Tech 353 531 4238 66.5 8.0 31 12 34 148.26 3. Brady Quinn, N Dame 292 450 3919 64.9 8.7 32 7 20 158.40 4. Matt Leinart, USC 283 431 3815 65.7 8.9 28 8 17 157.74 5. John Beck, BYU 331 513 3709 64.5 7.2 27 13 25 137.55 6. Brett Basanez, N'western 314 497 3622 63.2 7.3 21 8 10 135.12 7. Jordan Palmer, UTEP 258 434 3503 59.4 8.1 29 19 27 140.54 8. Luke Getsy, Akron 278 525 3455 53.0 6.6 23 12 20 118.12 9. Paul Pinegar, Fresno St 265 416 3335 63.7 8.0 30 15 14 147.63 10. Kevin Kolb, Houston 253 419 3248 60.4 7.8 19 15 29 133.30 11. Drew Weatherford, Florida St 276 469 3220 58.8 6.9 18 18 23 121.51 12. Drew Olson, UCLA 242 378 3198 64.0 8.5 34 6 25 161.59 13. Justin Holland, Colo St 235 369 3185 63.7 8.6 23 15 23 148.63 14. Darrell Hackney, UAB 242 386 3180 62.7 8.2 22 12 15 144.48 15. Josh Betts, Miami (OH) 248 434 3178 57.1 7.3 27 13 15 133.20 16. Drew Stanton, Mich St 236 355 3077 66.5 8.7 22 12 23 152.98 17. Jay Cutler, Vanderbilt 273 462 3073 59.1 6.7 21 9 23 126.07 18. Vince Young, Texas 212 325 3036 65.2 9.3 26 10 13 163.95 Guys like Colt Brennan (68% completion percentage) and Brett Basanez (63.2%) didn't play on very good teams, yet they still outshined in comparison to Cutler. And what about Vince Young? He has one of the most talented teams in the country, yet he wasn't able to crack the top ten in yards. Why? Because even though you play on a talented team, you still have to be a damn good QB to make throws in college football. Leinart made all the throws. Against ND, against Fresno State, against Texas, against UCLA. So basically the whole point is, it doesn't matter how good your wide receivers are, it's still up to the QUARTERBACK to throw the balls to them. If you want to further go with the "he had so much talent but he'll suck in the NFL" argument, look at guys like Carson Palmer and Peyton Manning who had tons of talent in college but are now Pro-Bowl QBs. And what about guys like Eli Manning? He had no good WRs, yet he still put up better numbers than Cutler. And he was in the SEC.... NAME CMP ATT YDS CMP% YDS/A TD INT SACKS RAT Jay Cutler, Vanderbilt 273 462 3073 59.1 6.7 21 9 23 126.07 Eli Manning, Ole Miss 275 441 3600 62.4 8.2 29 10 19 148.09 Eli played on a bad team. Nobody on that offense (except a guy named Stacy Andrews, OT, who went to Cincy in the fourth round) went to the draft. Yet Eli still found a way to complete 62.4% of his passes... Hmmmmm. how do you think that happened? If his team is so bad, how did he do it? Because he was good. It shouldn't matter about how good your team is, a QB should still be able to make it so much better, and CUtler didn't. Eli threw less passes for more yards, touchdowns, a better average, and a better QB rating. Not to mention that he had less sacks. So what have we learned today? It's not about how good or bad your team is. As you can see from guys like Eli Manning and Brett Basanez who quarterbacked for teams with talent nowhere near the level of Leinart's USC team, you can still put up good numbers because it's not about your team, it's about you. Cutler had a pretty good year, but Leinart's was amazing. You can't blame Cutler's team for his shortcomings because guys like Eli Manning and Brett Basanez played on bad teams in really good conferences and were still able to produce.
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928

02-28-2006, 12:34 PM	#43
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928	RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Payton interested in From Mel Kiper: Jay Cutler, Vanderbilt (6-4, 230) He is fast becoming one of the most overhyped players in this draft. Cutler was OK, but not great, at the Senior Bowl, but he's drawing all these rave reviews at the NFL scouting combine. He hasn't done anything at the combine that has wowed me to move him up in the draft. Jay Cutler is going to be a top-15 pick, but does not rank as high QBs Matt Leinart or Vince Young. Cutler hasn't improved his draft position by what he did at the Senior Bowl or combine. He had a good senior season and finished strong. If you like Cutler based on how he finished the season, that's fine, but don't think that he's moved up dramatically based on the Senior Bowl and combine. He's going to go in the top 15 of the first round and might even go in the top five. But what he's done since the season ended doesn't put him up with Matt Leinart or Vince Young. I still have him in the top 10 of the draft, but you shouldn't think he'll be a top-three pick. Overhyped indeed. I'll trust the guy who's been doing this job and has seen guys like this get overhyped since before I was born.
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928

02-28-2006, 12:50 PM	#45
FatiusJeebs 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 973	You call the reporting from a guy who gets paid to talk a lot about draft prospects and give HIS 2 cents on the matter a knockout blow? LOl..you guys are desperate. One more thing....the only person still talkin about Brooks....is you. ;0)
FatiusJeebs 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 973

02-28-2006, 12:55 PM	#46
gandhi1007 Part Time Pimp Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,967	Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Payton intereste Originally Posted by Euphoria Originally Posted by gandhi1007 C'mon. O.K., Cutler had a lack of talent at Vandy. He still didn't win. Tom Brady, during their 1st championship year, had a lack of talent as well. Their starting RB is now our 2nd-3rd stringer. He had receivers like Troy Brown & David Patten (hardly Pro Bowl material) & he won the Super Bowl. Brooks, who had far more talent on offense than Brady consistently killed his team. However, it is pointless to argue with you, because you are obviously hellbent on hating Leinart & defending Brooks. But ponder this: If Leinart was not that good, would the Jets be willing to give up John Abraham (a perrenial Pro-Bowler) & a shload of picks to move up to get him? Hold the phone... I can't seem to collect any thoughts after reading this... Brooks has more talent around him than Brady??? Did I read this correctly??? You my friend should definately give up being a fan of football, and I am taking your Saints fan ID card, and revoking your manhood. I'll take your opinion with a grain of salt considering you list yourself as the president of the Jason Craft fan club (a guy who couldn't cover dog sh with a Sunday edition of the Time Picayune). But I'll humor you. Let's just look at the 2 offenses in 2001: New England: New Orleans: Advantage: RB-Antowain Smith RB-Ricky Williams New Orleans #1 WR-Troy Brown #1 WR-Joe Horn New Orleans O-Line O-Line New Orleans The only advantage that New England had on offense in 2001 was at the QB position. They had Drew Bledsoe & Tom Brady. We had Smiley "the human turnover" Aaron Brooks. Brooks did have more talent around him on offense in 2001.
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02-28-2006, 12:47 PM	#44
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Damn Deuce. DAMN!!!! Knockout blow delivered. How can ANYONE argue with that? BUT, when you still have love love Aaron Brooks............................................

02-28-2006, 01:00 PM	#47
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Originally Posted by FatiusJeebs You call the reporting from a guy who gets paid to talk a lot about draft prospects and give HIS 2 cents on the matter a knockout blow? LOl..you guys are desperate. One more thing....the only person still talkin about Brooks....is you. ;0) LMAO. It's sad you tried to ignore Deuce's post prior to the Kiper one, which WAS the knockout blow I was referring to. No comeback for that one hey? Priceless. You slayed 'em Deuce.

02-28-2006, 01:05 PM	#48
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	I'll take your opinion with a grain of salt considering you list yourself as the president of the Jason Craft fan club (a guy who couldn't cover dog sh** with a Sunday edition of the Time Picayune). Titles are not user manipulated. I give titles out, as I deem fit. Most are meant as a joke.....

02-28-2006, 01:11 PM	#49
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	All jokes have an element of truth to them, and Euph WAS pimping Craft pretty hard as our best corner, so.................................................................................................................. I would say maybe you should change it to pres of the Aaron Brooks fan club, but I wouldn't want a riot to start for all the others who want the title.

02-28-2006, 01:13 PM	#50
gandhi1007 Part Time Pimp Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,967	Originally Posted by BlackandBlue I'll take your opinion with a grain of salt considering you list yourself as the president of the Jason Craft fan club (a guy who couldn't cover dog sh** with a Sunday edition of the Time Picayune). Titles are not user manipulated. I give titles out, as I deem fit. Most are meant as a joke..... In that case, I retract my comments...except for the point that New Orleans had more talent on offense than New England in 2001. My bad...my bad...