Here's What Will Happen Saturday

saintswhodi · 04-24-2006, 11:09 AM

So, what's reasonable, is taking a guy with no talent for big games, at a position we don't need. THAT'S reasonable? And calling Hawk Cie Grant just showed me there's no way you are thinking rationally at this point. You would take Cie Grant 5 overall with a trade of Charles Grant? When things get this irrational, it's time for me to bow out. Enjoy that kool-aid, hope it doesn't choke you when some team is lamenting the fact they got saddled with the next Alonzo Spellman at a much higher salary.

xan · 04-24-2006, 11:12 AM

He's got to be pulling our leg. I know schizophrenics who wouldn't suggest that Williams is a player. He's just messing with us.

Cassady37 · 04-24-2006, 11:27 AM

The only thing for sure in this year's draft will be the beer lined up on my table. Either way the draft goes, I'm ready! I will say this could be the first year we could see the Saint's fan in the room at the time of our pick actually cheer for once. How many times in the past have you heard boos at the instance of our pick? I say, bring it on! Bottoms up!

gandhi1007 · 04-24-2006, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by BrooksMustGo

I have no hate for this Hawk person, (who couldn't stop Vince Young at home by the way--big time players and big time games you know).

Dude, What game were you watching? Hawk was all over Vince Young in that game like an Ethiopian on some Popeye's chicken. And... that was against one of the NCAA's better offensive lines (not to mention the 2006 NCAA National Champs). He also had big games against all of the other ranked opponents Ohio State faced this year. What big game did "Super Mario" have against a team in the upper echelon of college football? It kills me that people go over the edge with the value of defensive linemen. Just for kicks, do you know where the highest ratio of 1st round draft busts come from? You guessed it...defensive linemen.

Boogro · 04-24-2006, 12:34 PM

BMG, All I wanna know is, how you can call the safest pick in the draft a project player?

thib82 · 04-24-2006, 12:41 PM

I don't know why everyone thinks they are professional scouts and analysts for the NFL but not every player in the draft is over rated. It seems that at one time or another this off-season, someone has claimed that every player in to be picked in the top ten is over-rated. IMO, these guys are rated and ranked as high as they are for a reason. Hawk and Mario are the two top rated defensive players in the draft because they have the talent and tools to be solid NFL players. Yes, they may not be Hall-of-famers, but damnit, at least see what they can do in the pros before saying they were over rated. Nearly all top ten picks are over-rated. Not every pick can be a pro-bowl/HOF player. Alot of these guys just want to be the ones saying "I told you so" as soon as the player has a bad game because they wanted another player drafted. We all think we could draft, coach, and play better than the teams we watch, but realisticly, NO WE CANT. My point is, let the coaches, scouts, and GMs do their jobs, and 2-3 years from now, if the pick they made doesn't work out, then call it a bust, but don't make any early assumptions. Remember Tom Brady was a 6th round pick and he is one of the top three QBs in the league. No one was calling him over rated coming out of michigan. Someone on the Pats thought he could help their team, and they were right. How many people saw that one coming.

saintswhodi · 04-24-2006, 01:29 PM

Um, I saw the Sullivan disaster as soon as we picked him, didn't you? Guess what else? The draft is Saturday, and some of us like to talk about it and the players. If you don't like to read someone evaluating a player, you should probably avoid the threads that have anything to do with the draft. Furthermore, as much time as a lot of us spend looking at these picks, and as much interest as this draft is generating for us, we can mkae whatever judgments we choose. Scouts, experts WHOMEVER CAN BE WRONG, no matter how much they get paid to make these decisions. Ever heard of Ryan Leaf, Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Tony Mandarich? Bosworth, Mamula, etc. Just cause they get paid to do it, doesn't make their opinion any more written in stone than any of us on here. But if you wanna believe other fallible humans such as ourselves who get paid to do the job a lot of us would love to do can't be wrong, so be it. But if you don't wanna read it, don't.

thib82 · 04-25-2006, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by saintswhodi

Um, I saw the Sullivan disaster as soon as we picked him, didn't you? Guess what else? The draft is Saturday, and some of us like to talk about it and the players. If you don't like to read someone evaluating a player, you should probably avoid the threads that have anything to do with the draft. Furthermore, as much time as a lot of us spend looking at these picks, and as much interest as this draft is generating for us, we can mkae whatever judgments we choose. Scouts, experts WHOMEVER CAN BE WRONG, no matter how much they get paid to make these decisions. Ever heard of Ryan Leaf, Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Tony Mandarich? Bosworth, Mamula, etc. Just cause they get paid to do it, doesn't make their opinion any more written in stone than any of us on here. But if you wanna believe other fallible humans such as ourselves who get paid to do the job a lot of us would love to do can't be wrong, so be it. But if you don't wanna read it, don't.

So you agree with what I said about most top picks not being as great as everyone thought they would be. Look, my point isn't to say that I don't like seeing players evaluated, I just dont like people saying that every player that is supposed to be picked in the top ten are over-rated. I may have worded what I was trying to say wrong yesterday, but alot of people are claiming this guy and that guy are over-rated and no one ever has a reason why. What are these guys seeing that the scouts aren't.NOTHING. Most of these guys are talking blindly and its obvious. If you have done your own research and have made your own assumption, thats one thing, but these guys who have nothing to back up their statements, these are the ones who bother me.

saintswhodi · 04-25-2006, 10:26 AM

I can agree with that. I know for me personally, if I am gonna speak against a player, it's gonna be with evidence, not just throwing out random "he sucks." And a lot of that goes on. But there are enough guys on here who I KNOW do their research on players before throwing out impressions that I think it outweighs the guys who don't. And for the most part, we know who they are. I think what you may see a lof of times is a guy will give his impression on a player in one thread, and then in all subsequent threads, instead of going into detail again, he may just make comments. So if you didn't read his inital thread, you may think a person is throwing out generalizations without back-up. Everyone has their reason for looking at a player one way or another, just believe me, a LOT of guys on this forum do their heavy lifting before evaluating a player. Again some don't as well, you just gotta know who to sift through.

xan · 04-25-2006, 11:31 AM

I don't think that whodi said "most draft picks not being as great as everyone thought they'd be." He pointed out that sometimes overly positive momentum can get behind a player and elevate him above his reality, some get severely injured, and sometimes players just implode for no fathomable reason. This is a very unusual draft in that there are 20 extremely high quality 1st round candidates, any one of whom would be an outstanding addition to their team. Looking back on previous drafts and the amount of hype preceeding them, there was about the right amount of overall enthusiasm given the talent at the time. The few players whodi mentioned are a tiny percentage of first round draft picks and are examples of highly paid scouts being wrong on occasion, like any of us here.

04-24-2006, 11:35 AM	#14
gandhi1007 Part Time Pimp Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,967	Originally Posted by BrooksMustGo I have no hate for this Hawk person, (who couldn't stop Vince Young at home by the way--big time players and big time games you know). Dude, What game were you watching? Hawk was all over Vince Young in that game like an Ethiopian on some Popeye's chicken. And... that was against one of the NCAA's better offensive lines (not to mention the 2006 NCAA National Champs). He also had big games against all of the other ranked opponents Ohio State faced this year. What big game did "Super Mario" have against a team in the upper echelon of college football? It kills me that people go over the edge with the value of defensive linemen. Just for kicks, do you know where the highest ratio of 1st round draft busts come from? You guessed it...defensive linemen.
	http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...gs/12-3006.jpg ______________________________ KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE! -G.I. Joe

04-25-2006, 08:55 AM	#18
thib82 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Carencro, LA Posts: 211	Originally Posted by saintswhodi Um, I saw the Sullivan disaster as soon as we picked him, didn't you? Guess what else? The draft is Saturday, and some of us like to talk about it and the players. If you don't like to read someone evaluating a player, you should probably avoid the threads that have anything to do with the draft. Furthermore, as much time as a lot of us spend looking at these picks, and as much interest as this draft is generating for us, we can mkae whatever judgments we choose. Scouts, experts WHOMEVER CAN BE WRONG, no matter how much they get paid to make these decisions. Ever heard of Ryan Leaf, Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Tony Mandarich? Bosworth, Mamula, etc. Just cause they get paid to do it, doesn't make their opinion any more written in stone than any of us on here. But if you wanna believe other fallible humans such as ourselves who get paid to do the job a lot of us would love to do can't be wrong, so be it. But if you don't wanna read it, don't. So you agree with what I said about most top picks not being as great as everyone thought they would be. Look, my point isn't to say that I don't like seeing players evaluated, I just dont like people saying that every player that is supposed to be picked in the top ten are over-rated. I may have worded what I was trying to say wrong yesterday, but alot of people are claiming this guy and that guy are over-rated and no one ever has a reason why. What are these guys seeing that the scouts aren't.NOTHING. Most of these guys are talking blindly and its obvious. If you have done your own research and have made your own assumption, thats one thing, but these guys who have nothing to back up their statements, these are the ones who bother me.

04-25-2006, 11:31 AM	#20
xan Professor Crab and Site Donor 2014 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Princeton Posts: 3,369 Blog Entries: 34	I don't think that whodi said "most draft picks not being as great as everyone thought they'd be." He pointed out that sometimes overly positive momentum can get behind a player and elevate him above his reality, some get severely injured, and sometimes players just implode for no fathomable reason. This is a very unusual draft in that there are 20 extremely high quality 1st round candidates, any one of whom would be an outstanding addition to their team. Looking back on previous drafts and the amount of hype preceeding them, there was about the right amount of overall enthusiasm given the talent at the time. The few players whodi mentioned are a tiny percentage of first round draft picks and are examples of highly paid scouts being wrong on occasion, like any of us here.
	Calvin: "I wish I was a Tiger." Hobbes: "Common lament."

04-24-2006, 11:09 AM	#11
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	So, what's reasonable, is taking a guy with no talent for big games, at a position we don't need. THAT'S reasonable? And calling Hawk Cie Grant just showed me there's no way you are thinking rationally at this point. You would take Cie Grant 5 overall with a trade of Charles Grant? When things get this irrational, it's time for me to bow out. Enjoy that kool-aid, hope it doesn't choke you when some team is lamenting the fact they got saddled with the next Alonzo Spellman at a much higher salary.

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04-24-2006, 11:12 AM	#12
xan Professor Crab and Site Donor 2014 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Princeton Posts: 3,369 Blog Entries: 34	He's got to be pulling our leg. I know schizophrenics who wouldn't suggest that Williams is a player. He's just messing with us.

04-24-2006, 11:27 AM	#13
Cassady37 100th Post Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Kilgore, Texas Posts: 337	The only thing for sure in this year's draft will be the beer lined up on my table. Either way the draft goes, I'm ready! I will say this could be the first year we could see the Saint's fan in the room at the time of our pick actually cheer for once. How many times in the past have you heard boos at the instance of our pick? I say, bring it on! Bottoms up!

04-24-2006, 12:34 PM	#15
Boogro Nose Digger Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 341	BMG, All I wanna know is, how you can call the safest pick in the draft a project player?

04-24-2006, 12:41 PM	#16
thib82 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Carencro, LA Posts: 211	I don't know why everyone thinks they are professional scouts and analysts for the NFL but not every player in the draft is over rated. It seems that at one time or another this off-season, someone has claimed that every player in to be picked in the top ten is over-rated. IMO, these guys are rated and ranked as high as they are for a reason. Hawk and Mario are the two top rated defensive players in the draft because they have the talent and tools to be solid NFL players. Yes, they may not be Hall-of-famers, but damnit, at least see what they can do in the pros before saying they were over rated. Nearly all top ten picks are over-rated. Not every pick can be a pro-bowl/HOF player. Alot of these guys just want to be the ones saying "I told you so" as soon as the player has a bad game because they wanted another player drafted. We all think we could draft, coach, and play better than the teams we watch, but realisticly, NO WE CANT. My point is, let the coaches, scouts, and GMs do their jobs, and 2-3 years from now, if the pick they made doesn't work out, then call it a bust, but don't make any early assumptions. Remember Tom Brady was a 6th round pick and he is one of the top three QBs in the league. No one was calling him over rated coming out of michigan. Someone on the Pats thought he could help their team, and they were right. How many people saw that one coming.

04-24-2006, 01:29 PM	#17
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Um, I saw the Sullivan disaster as soon as we picked him, didn't you? Guess what else? The draft is Saturday, and some of us like to talk about it and the players. If you don't like to read someone evaluating a player, you should probably avoid the threads that have anything to do with the draft. Furthermore, as much time as a lot of us spend looking at these picks, and as much interest as this draft is generating for us, we can mkae whatever judgments we choose. Scouts, experts WHOMEVER CAN BE WRONG, no matter how much they get paid to make these decisions. Ever heard of Ryan Leaf, Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Tony Mandarich? Bosworth, Mamula, etc. Just cause they get paid to do it, doesn't make their opinion any more written in stone than any of us on here. But if you wanna believe other fallible humans such as ourselves who get paid to do the job a lot of us would love to do can't be wrong, so be it. But if you don't wanna read it, don't.

04-25-2006, 10:26 AM	#19
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	I can agree with that. I know for me personally, if I am gonna speak against a player, it's gonna be with evidence, not just throwing out random "he sucks." And a lot of that goes on. But there are enough guys on here who I KNOW do their research on players before throwing out impressions that I think it outweighs the guys who don't. And for the most part, we know who they are. I think what you may see a lof of times is a guy will give his impression on a player in one thread, and then in all subsequent threads, instead of going into detail again, he may just make comments. So if you didn't read his inital thread, you may think a person is throwing out generalizations without back-up. Everyone has their reason for looking at a player one way or another, just believe me, a LOT of guys on this forum do their heavy lifting before evaluating a player. Again some don't as well, you just gotta know who to sift through.