Harper and the rest of the picks

SkipThomas · 05-04-2006, 04:35 PM

So much has been written about the Saints "reaching" to take Harper in the second round or Evans being the next Larry Allen. So many publications and web sites have graded the draft it's hard to keep up. That always freaks me out...why? Because no one and I mean no one knows how the draft will turn out. How many times have you seen a guy become the perennial pro bowler from school you never heard of in a town you never heard of. How many of you heard of Larry Allen before he suited up with the Cowboys and began to pancake everything in sight? I certainly hadn't. Heck I couldn't name 5 college lineman before any of the drafts I've observed over the years...just not a position I pay a lot to when I watch college football. I say to all of who think the Saints reached for any of the picks, "YOU CAN"T POSSIBLY KNOW IF THAT'S TRUE because you don't know what the future holds. How many of you remember when the Boston Celtics picked a tremendously talented forward from the University of Maryland. Celtic fans around the world were rejoicing just like we're rejoicing about the selection of the Reggie Bush. But who knew Lenny Bias would never wear that uniform on the parquet floor? The same uncertainty is there for the draft. Who knows if Harper doesn't turn out to be the next Rodney Harrison? A comparison, by the way, I have read elsewhere. Lets let these guys we just picked get in uniform before we grade the draft. For all we know, this could be the same kind of draft that propelled the Steelers to legendary success back in the 1970's.

TallySaint · 05-04-2006, 04:39 PM

Reasonable thought, objectivity and having no agenda will get you nowhere here, bub.

saintswhodi · 05-04-2006, 04:44 PM

I thought Sullivan was a reach. Tell me when I become wrong. Harper was a reach, and not only not the best player still on the board, he wasn't even the best safety left.

SkipThomas · 05-04-2006, 04:58 PM

Ok Saintwhodi...since you can call them so well, tell me you thought Colby Bockwoldt would be a starter at this time last year. I also want you to go on the record saying that you won't swing on Sullivan's jock strap if this new group of coaches turn him into a beast. Finally, if Harper does prove you wrong, will you go on record saying you were wrong? As a former high school varsity basketball coach in Alabama, one thing I learned early on...the easiest thing to do is coach another man's team...you have all of the answers and none of the responsibility. All I'm saying is give the guys who are getting paid to make the choices the benefit of the doubt until they are proven wrong by performance on the field. By all accounts, Brady should have been the first QB picked the year he came out...31 teams missed out on that one...I bet the Pats were blasted for picking him over someone who could have been picked in the previous round or something...it's way too early to tell on any of these guys, including Sullivan...we'll see in a few months

saintswhodi · 05-04-2006, 05:12 PM

Ooohhh, a challenge, or a post closely resembling one, me likey. Let's see:

Ok Saintwhodi...since you can call them so well, tell me you thought Colby Bockwoldt would be a starter at this time last year.

Bad, bad example. Colby wouldn't start for 31 other teams in the league. AND he was a 7th rounder. Noone would call a 7th rounder a reach, which was your point right? Or do you wanna change it?

I also want you to go on the record saying that you won't swing on Sullivan's jock strap if this new group of coaches turn him into a beast.

Is this meant to be taking literally? Cause I am 6'2" 240 and I probably could swing from lard butt's jock strap. I have no worries of him ever turning into a beast. A player who was forced to sit ON OUR DEFENSE cause he was too fat and lazy will never be anything. 11.5 remember?

Finally, if Harper does prove you wrong, will you go on record saying you were wrong?

Do you want the other thousands of people who think he is a reach to say they were wrong too? Are you gonna write a letter to all the national sports writers who called him a reach, and some a bad pick? If he plays well, i'll give him his due. Right now, he is a HUGE reach.

All I'm saying is give the guys who are getting paid to make the choices the benefit of the doubt until they are proven wrong by performance on the field.

Ia m sure the guys who picked Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith and Tony Mandarich were getting paid to make those decisions too. That's no point at all. That's like saying if Ray Nagin wanted to tear down the Mississippi River Bridge, people should turn the other way cause Nagin and his staff get paid to make those decisions. Um, no thanks. I've never been a sheep.

Brady should have been the first QB picked the year he came out...31 teams missed out on that one...I bet the Pats were blasted for picking him over someone who could have been picked in the previous round or something.

Brady was a 6th round pick. You seem to be confusing your point. Harper was called a reach cause he was picked much HIGHE Rthan he was supposed to. Brady was picked LATE, and therefore could be called a steal, which would be an understatement. Hopefully this clears up the difference between a reach and a steal.

it's way too early to tell on any of these guys, including Sullivan...we'll see in a few months

Sullivan has sucked here for 3 years. If you can't tell by now, you never will unfortunately.

SkipThomas · 05-04-2006, 05:38 PM

Ok I understand...you see the world through lenses that indicate the glass is half empty...I see the glass as half full. I look forward to this season like countless others who call themselves Saints fans. I also want to remind you that there are a number of so called experts who said the Saints draft was an A...lets just wait until next December to see if it was...I don't know a single person in the world who could call it before then. As for Sullivan being a bust...I guess the previous genius we had as a defensive coordinator couldn't possibly have had anything to do with Sullivan not playing well...and one other thing putting him on the field might have helped with his weight problem...he couldn't possibly have played worse than those that did judging by the gaping holes opposing RBs got to run through. I'll back off now...you win...the world should be seen through half empty lenses....

BlackandBlue · 05-04-2006, 05:47 PM

Players can be considered good prospects, and yet still be considered a reach, given their selection status. There is a certain progression that the draft maintains, as far as where players are supposed to be selected. I'll let whodi go out on that limb as to whether or not there were better players on the board at that position, I personally like the fact that we got him. But I think he could have been there in the 3rd round, and if we wanted him that bad, we could have secured a 3rd round pick from another team, and used that 2nd round pick on a player that should have gone at that position.

papz · 05-04-2006, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by BlackandBlue

Players can be considered good prospects, and yet still be considered a reach, given their selection status. There is a certain progression that the draft maintains, as far as where players are supposed to be selected.

Well said. Oh well, he's here and lets move on. Hopefully he'll overachieve and prove many of us wrong earning that second round choice of ours.

pakowitz · 05-04-2006, 05:57 PM

Hopefully he'll overachieve and prove many of us wrong earning that second round choice of ours

thats one of the many reasons he was drafted...

gandhi1007 · 05-04-2006, 06:16 PM

I think he could have been there in the 3rd round, and if we wanted him that bad, we could have secured a 3rd round pick from another team, and used that 2nd round pick on a player that should have gone at that position.

I feel the same way B&B. I like the guy, just not with a second round pick. I feel like if that's the guy they wanted...fine, but trade down again, pick up the extra picks, & pick the guy in the third. he would have been there, no doubt. Most analysts had him going in the fourth round.

05-04-2006, 04:35 PM	#1
SkipThomas Registered Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 47	Harper and the rest of the picks So much has been written about the Saints "reaching" to take Harper in the second round or Evans being the next Larry Allen. So many publications and web sites have graded the draft it's hard to keep up. That always freaks me out...why? Because no one and I mean no one knows how the draft will turn out. How many times have you seen a guy become the perennial pro bowler from school you never heard of in a town you never heard of. How many of you heard of Larry Allen before he suited up with the Cowboys and began to pancake everything in sight? I certainly hadn't. Heck I couldn't name 5 college lineman before any of the drafts I've observed over the years...just not a position I pay a lot to when I watch college football. I say to all of who think the Saints reached for any of the picks, "YOU CAN"T POSSIBLY KNOW IF THAT'S TRUE because you don't know what the future holds. How many of you remember when the Boston Celtics picked a tremendously talented forward from the University of Maryland. Celtic fans around the world were rejoicing just like we're rejoicing about the selection of the Reggie Bush. But who knew Lenny Bias would never wear that uniform on the parquet floor? The same uncertainty is there for the draft. Who knows if Harper doesn't turn out to be the next Rodney Harrison? A comparison, by the way, I have read elsewhere. Lets let these guys we just picked get in uniform before we grade the draft. For all we know, this could be the same kind of draft that propelled the Steelers to legendary success back in the 1970's.
SkipThomas Registered Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 47

05-04-2006, 04:58 PM	#4
SkipThomas Registered Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 47	Ok Saintwhodi...since you can call them so well, tell me you thought Colby Bockwoldt would be a starter at this time last year. I also want you to go on the record saying that you won't swing on Sullivan's jock strap if this new group of coaches turn him into a beast. Finally, if Harper does prove you wrong, will you go on record saying you were wrong? As a former high school varsity basketball coach in Alabama, one thing I learned early on...the easiest thing to do is coach another man's team...you have all of the answers and none of the responsibility. All I'm saying is give the guys who are getting paid to make the choices the benefit of the doubt until they are proven wrong by performance on the field. By all accounts, Brady should have been the first QB picked the year he came out...31 teams missed out on that one...I bet the Pats were blasted for picking him over someone who could have been picked in the previous round or something...it's way too early to tell on any of these guys, including Sullivan...we'll see in a few months
SkipThomas Registered Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 47

05-04-2006, 05:12 PM	#5
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Ooohhh, a challenge, or a post closely resembling one, me likey. Let's see: Ok Saintwhodi...since you can call them so well, tell me you thought Colby Bockwoldt would be a starter at this time last year. Bad, bad example. Colby wouldn't start for 31 other teams in the league. AND he was a 7th rounder. Noone would call a 7th rounder a reach, which was your point right? Or do you wanna change it? I also want you to go on the record saying that you won't swing on Sullivan's jock strap if this new group of coaches turn him into a beast. Is this meant to be taking literally? Cause I am 6'2" 240 and I probably could swing from lard butt's jock strap. I have no worries of him ever turning into a beast. A player who was forced to sit ON OUR DEFENSE cause he was too fat and lazy will never be anything. 11.5 remember? Finally, if Harper does prove you wrong, will you go on record saying you were wrong? Do you want the other thousands of people who think he is a reach to say they were wrong too? Are you gonna write a letter to all the national sports writers who called him a reach, and some a bad pick? If he plays well, i'll give him his due. Right now, he is a HUGE reach. All I'm saying is give the guys who are getting paid to make the choices the benefit of the doubt until they are proven wrong by performance on the field. Ia m sure the guys who picked Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith and Tony Mandarich were getting paid to make those decisions too. That's no point at all. That's like saying if Ray Nagin wanted to tear down the Mississippi River Bridge, people should turn the other way cause Nagin and his staff get paid to make those decisions. Um, no thanks. I've never been a sheep. Brady should have been the first QB picked the year he came out...31 teams missed out on that one...I bet the Pats were blasted for picking him over someone who could have been picked in the previous round or something. Brady was a 6th round pick. You seem to be confusing your point. Harper was called a reach cause he was picked much HIGHE Rthan he was supposed to. Brady was picked LATE, and therefore could be called a steal, which would be an understatement. Hopefully this clears up the difference between a reach and a steal. it's way too early to tell on any of these guys, including Sullivan...we'll see in a few months Sullivan has sucked here for 3 years. If you can't tell by now, you never will unfortunately.

05-04-2006, 05:38 PM	#6
SkipThomas Registered Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 47	Ok I understand...you see the world through lenses that indicate the glass is half empty...I see the glass as half full. I look forward to this season like countless others who call themselves Saints fans. I also want to remind you that there are a number of so called experts who said the Saints draft was an A...lets just wait until next December to see if it was...I don't know a single person in the world who could call it before then. As for Sullivan being a bust...I guess the previous genius we had as a defensive coordinator couldn't possibly have had anything to do with Sullivan not playing well...and one other thing putting him on the field might have helped with his weight problem...he couldn't possibly have played worse than those that did judging by the gaping holes opposing RBs got to run through. I'll back off now...you win...the world should be seen through half empty lenses....
SkipThomas Registered Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 47

05-04-2006, 05:47 PM	#7
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	Players can be considered good prospects, and yet still be considered a reach, given their selection status. There is a certain progression that the draft maintains, as far as where players are supposed to be selected. I'll let whodi go out on that limb as to whether or not there were better players on the board at that position, I personally like the fact that we got him. But I think he could have been there in the 3rd round, and if we wanted him that bad, we could have secured a 3rd round pick from another team, and used that 2nd round pick on a player that should have gone at that position.
	The waiting drove me mad.... I don't want to hear from those that know... Everything has changed, absolutely nothing's changed Eddie is a....draftnik?

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05-04-2006, 04:39 PM	#2
TallySaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Tallahassee Posts: 1,367	Reasonable thought, objectivity and having no agenda will get you nowhere here, bub.

05-04-2006, 04:44 PM	#3
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	I thought Sullivan was a reach. Tell me when I become wrong. Harper was a reach, and not only not the best player still on the board, he wasn't even the best safety left.

05-04-2006, 05:54 PM	#8
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,744	Originally Posted by BlackandBlue Players can be considered good prospects, and yet still be considered a reach, given their selection status. There is a certain progression that the draft maintains, as far as where players are supposed to be selected. Well said. Oh well, he's here and lets move on. Hopefully he'll overachieve and prove many of us wrong earning that second round choice of ours.

05-04-2006, 05:57 PM	#9
pakowitz The Dark Overlord Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,450	Hopefully he'll overachieve and prove many of us wrong earning that second round choice of ours thats one of the many reasons he was drafted...

05-04-2006, 06:16 PM	#10
gandhi1007 Part Time Pimp Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,967	I think he could have been there in the 3rd round, and if we wanted him that bad, we could have secured a 3rd round pick from another team, and used that 2nd round pick on a player that should have gone at that position. I feel the same way B&B. I like the guy, just not with a second round pick. I feel like if that's the guy they wanted...fine, but trade down again, pick up the extra picks, & pick the guy in the third. he would have been there, no doubt. Most analysts had him going in the fourth round.