Don't under-estimate this win...

Tobias-Reiper · 10-09-2006, 08:34 AM

Jon Gruden is a very good coach. He had a great game plan and made some great calls, and was very close to pulling it off.

A lot of times you hear that "this team is the best 0-n team" and it means crap, but the Bucs are the best 0-4 team in the NFL.

The Bucs have lost against:

4-0 Ravens
3-1 Falcons
3-2 Panthers
4-1 Saints

... and while this early in the season San Diego may have the stats on D (thanks to playing the 0-4 going on 0-16 Raiders, the 0-4 Titans, and the "we won last year, we don't have to show up anymore" 1-3 Steelers ) , the Ravens, Panthers, and Falcons defenses are VERY good defensive teams. Heck, they took the Panthers to task with their QB playing 3 quarters on a ruptured spleen.

As for the rookie QB, it is way different for a team to give up on the starting QB and put in the backup than go to the backup because the starter is hurt. And they still have a very good defense. I give a lot of credit to gruden for keeping his team focused and motivated and for the effort they put forth.

So don't under-estimate this win, and complain that the Saints should've dominated. We still have an o-line that's played 5 games together, a 1st year head coach, new QB coming off a major injury, rookie #2 WR, new system, new coaches all around, 3 new starting LBs who like the o-line had played 5 games together, a rookie safety, well, you get my point. This is a very young team and honestly I'm very surprised, as well as pleased, about the early returns.

CHACHING · 10-09-2006, 09:03 AM

Nice post..
Interesting perspective...
I mean, you get so caught up in getting a win and expecting to dominate an 0-4 team that you forget that we are a very young team..
Thanx for bringing me back to reality.(sarcasm off)
8)

hagan714 · 10-09-2006, 09:21 AM

hit it on the head. now we get to play with this years elite. or are they?
Eagels
1 @ Texans W 24-10
2 Giants L 24-30 (OT)
3 @ 49ers W 38-24
4 Packers W 31-9
5 Cowboys W 38-24

Drew and the WR better be on the same page here. McNabb is just plain hot. But they are beatable. Definitlly

Ravens
1 @ Buccaneers W 27-0
2 Raiders W 28-6
3 Browns W 15-14
4 Chargers W 16-13

Defensive slug fest. They are due for a fall. we have two weeks to get ready for this game.

At home nice. I am not sold on how good these two are. Heck Tampa had a harder schedual than these two.

Ravens L 0-27
Falcons L 3-14
Panthers L 24-26
Saints L 21-24

BJSim · 10-09-2006, 09:29 AM

The real test isn't this week (oh it's important don't get me wrong) it's the week AFTER the bye. I want to see how Payton does with an extra week to plan for one of the leagues toughest D's. Do we come out flat? Do we play agressive on both sides of the ball? A really good coach almost always wins the games after the bye.

yasoon · 10-09-2006, 09:44 AM

very good post tobias.

my boss just said "oh, you beat the lowly bucs"

that is such a stupid way to view the NFL. that sentiment works in college, but not the pros.

this was a trap game. looked easy but it wasn't. the rookie was very poised in there and we had trouble getting any pressure on him.

we looked flat. we didn't play great on either side of the ball and we eeked out a win against a division rival.

btw, did anyone else see how bad that offensive PI call on Horn was? my god.

the refs were freaking sketchy in that game, but they got a big call right late for us. they really let em play in the trenches, which is fine as long as it's consistent. the double PI in the endzone was also complete BS. Mike got shoved. period.

hey.....we're 4-1. it's time to get to work.

saintswhodi · 10-09-2006, 10:18 AM

Nice post TR.

xan · 10-09-2006, 01:33 PM

I'm going to disagree. The Bucs had a sieve for a DL and we chose to SHORT pass rather than exploit that weakness. Even after getting tremendous success in the running game, abandoned it in favor of the short pass. Each game, penalties have been increasing and more often at crucial times. This game highlighted that if you're exclusively geard for picking up short yards in the air, any penalty is going to bog down the offense. The defense needs to figure out how to put pressure on the qb with only 4 rushers. This was a rookie who presumably has never seen speed rusheres of the likes of Grant and Smith, so how did the Bucs abomination of an o-line neutralize them? and finally, the team has multiple weapons, why is Bush getting dump-offs when the Bucs' secondary is suspect? This offense is getting more conservative by the minute.

yas, you noted that the team looked flat?! A divisional home game against a wounded opponent?! Guess what, there's no excuse for "flat." $102 million, 1.7 million and 68,183 reasons you show up with all guns blazing. I don't care that it's a "young" team and everybody's "new." It's now the 6th game of the season and there are no more excuses. 8 months into this new administration, 5 months for most of the players, and you should all be on the same page. Waiting for divine intervention to bail out a win against a clearly inferior (though one couldn't tell which one was on Sunday) opponent is not going to cut it from here on.

saintsfan1313 · 10-09-2006, 01:56 PM

The thing is, it doesnt matter how we win, as long as we win. They used to say in soccer, they dont rate wins, they just tally them, and its the truth. Would you rather us play a better game and get less penalties and lose? We are winning more than last year, and playing better and smarter than last year. Did you see the crap that Payton pulled on the punt? That was brilliant. Make them burn a timeout and piss off Gruden. All in all, I'm happy with the way they are playing. Granted there are some things they can be doing better, but name a team that doesnt have weaknesses? We are playing as a team and winning ball games, you cant ask for much more......

xan · 10-09-2006, 02:25 PM

sf13 wrote:

Granted there are some things they can be doing better, but name a team that doesnt have weaknesses?

da bearss

CHACHING · 10-09-2006, 02:49 PM

True xan but they have been together for 2-3 years...
Lovie has them playing together...as Payton will us...
Let's give us some time before we start pointing fingers..
Oh and by the way....didn't the Bears suck in thier first year under Smith?
Just curious...

10-09-2006, 08:34 AM	#1
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Don't under-estimate this win... Jon Gruden is a very good coach. He had a great game plan and made some great calls, and was very close to pulling it off. A lot of times you hear that "this team is the best 0-n team" and it means crap, but the Bucs are the best 0-4 team in the NFL. The Bucs have lost against: 4-0 Ravens 3-1 Falcons 3-2 Panthers 4-1 Saints ... and while this early in the season San Diego may have the stats on D (thanks to playing the 0-4 going on 0-16 Raiders, the 0-4 Titans, and the "we won last year, we don't have to show up anymore" 1-3 Steelers ) , the Ravens, Panthers, and Falcons defenses are VERY good defensive teams. Heck, they took the Panthers to task with their QB playing 3 quarters on a ruptured spleen. As for the rookie QB, it is way different for a team to give up on the starting QB and put in the backup than go to the backup because the starter is hurt. And they still have a very good defense. I give a lot of credit to gruden for keeping his team focused and motivated and for the effort they put forth. So don't under-estimate this win, and complain that the Saints should've dominated. We still have an o-line that's played 5 games together, a 1st year head coach, new QB coming off a major injury, rookie #2 WR, new system, new coaches all around, 3 new starting LBs who like the o-line had played 5 games together, a rookie safety, well, you get my point. This is a very young team and honestly I'm very surprised, as well as pleased, about the early returns.
	'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill

10-09-2006, 09:44 AM	#5
yasoon 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 594	very good post tobias. my boss just said "oh, you beat the lowly bucs" that is such a stupid way to view the NFL. that sentiment works in college, but not the pros. this was a trap game. looked easy but it wasn't. the rookie was very poised in there and we had trouble getting any pressure on him. we looked flat. we didn't play great on either side of the ball and we eeked out a win against a division rival. btw, did anyone else see how bad that offensive PI call on Horn was? my god. the refs were freaking sketchy in that game, but they got a big call right late for us. they really let em play in the trenches, which is fine as long as it's consistent. the double PI in the endzone was also complete BS. Mike got shoved. period. hey.....we're 4-1. it's time to get to work.
yasoon 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 594

10-09-2006, 01:33 PM	#7
xan Professor Crab and Site Donor 2014 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Princeton Posts: 3,371 Blog Entries: 34	I'm going to disagree. The Bucs had a sieve for a DL and we chose to SHORT pass rather than exploit that weakness. Even after getting tremendous success in the running game, abandoned it in favor of the short pass. Each game, penalties have been increasing and more often at crucial times. This game highlighted that if you're exclusively geard for picking up short yards in the air, any penalty is going to bog down the offense. The defense needs to figure out how to put pressure on the qb with only 4 rushers. This was a rookie who presumably has never seen speed rusheres of the likes of Grant and Smith, so how did the Bucs abomination of an o-line neutralize them? and finally, the team has multiple weapons, why is Bush getting dump-offs when the Bucs' secondary is suspect? This offense is getting more conservative by the minute. yas, you noted that the team looked flat?! A divisional home game against a wounded opponent?! Guess what, there's no excuse for "flat." $102 million, 1.7 million and 68,183 reasons you show up with all guns blazing. I don't care that it's a "young" team and everybody's "new." It's now the 6th game of the season and there are no more excuses. 8 months into this new administration, 5 months for most of the players, and you should all be on the same page. Waiting for divine intervention to bail out a win against a clearly inferior (though one couldn't tell which one was on Sunday) opponent is not going to cut it from here on.
	Calvin: "I wish I was a Tiger." Hobbes: "Common lament."

10-09-2006, 02:25 PM	#9
xan Professor Crab and Site Donor 2014 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Princeton Posts: 3,371 Blog Entries: 34	sf13 wrote: Granted there are some things they can be doing better, but name a team that doesnt have weaknesses? da bearss

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10-09-2006, 09:03 AM	#2
CHACHING 500th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Golden State Posts: 830	Nice post.. Interesting perspective... I mean, you get so caught up in getting a win and expecting to dominate an 0-4 team that you forget that we are a very young team.. Thanx for bringing me back to reality.(sarcasm off) 8)

10-09-2006, 09:21 AM	#3
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	hit it on the head. now we get to play with this years elite. or are they? Eagels 1 @ Texans W 24-10 2 Giants L 24-30 (OT) 3 @ 49ers W 38-24 4 Packers W 31-9 5 Cowboys W 38-24 Drew and the WR better be on the same page here. McNabb is just plain hot. But they are beatable. Definitlly Ravens 1 @ Buccaneers W 27-0 2 Raiders W 28-6 3 Browns W 15-14 4 Chargers W 16-13 Defensive slug fest. They are due for a fall. we have two weeks to get ready for this game. At home nice. I am not sold on how good these two are. Heck Tampa had a harder schedual than these two. Ravens L 0-27 Falcons L 3-14 Panthers L 24-26 Saints L 21-24

10-09-2006, 09:29 AM	#4
BJSim 500+ posts Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Centreville, VA Posts: 577	The real test isn't this week (oh it's important don't get me wrong) it's the week AFTER the bye. I want to see how Payton does with an extra week to plan for one of the leagues toughest D's. Do we come out flat? Do we play agressive on both sides of the ball? A really good coach almost always wins the games after the bye.

10-09-2006, 10:18 AM	#6
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Nice post TR.

10-09-2006, 01:56 PM	#8
saintsfan1313 El Mero Mero Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Kingsville, Tx Posts: 669	The thing is, it doesnt matter how we win, as long as we win. They used to say in soccer, they dont rate wins, they just tally them, and its the truth. Would you rather us play a better game and get less penalties and lose? We are winning more than last year, and playing better and smarter than last year. Did you see the crap that Payton pulled on the punt? That was brilliant. Make them burn a timeout and piss off Gruden. All in all, I'm happy with the way they are playing. Granted there are some things they can be doing better, but name a team that doesnt have weaknesses? We are playing as a team and winning ball games, you cant ask for much more......

10-09-2006, 02:49 PM	#10
CHACHING 500th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Golden State Posts: 830	True xan but they have been together for 2-3 years... Lovie has them playing together...as Payton will us... Let's give us some time before we start pointing fingers.. Oh and by the way....didn't the Bears suck in thier first year under Smith? Just curious...