Aaron Brooks
 

The three pakratketeers! I LOVE IT!!! :P :P

Aaron Brooks
 

Who says we aren\'t already? ;)

I want a double-secret decoder ring :cool:

Aaron Brooks
 

All of you guys are getting a piss test :mad:

Aaron Brooks
 

YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


[Edited on 10/6/2003 by BlackandBlue]

Aaron Brooks
 

Didn\'t Cheech and Chong have one of those decoder rings or maybe I forgot \"because I got high\" as afroman would say!!!

Aaron Brooks
 

After last year I\'m definitely not one of AB\'s biggest fans but I have to give him this, he\'s probably one of the most physically gifted QB\'s in the league, except when you watch him run, he looks clumsier than a drunk on bourbon street during mardi gras. Everyone wants to talk about mobil qb\'s and their effectiveness, well whenever AB decides to run forwards instead of a back drop that consist of about 12 steps, then we\'ll call him a mobil qb, but another thing that just baffles me is he can throw the prettiest, most accurate pass 30 yards but he cant hit the side of the dome on a screen pass. I think Deuce being hurt put alot of added pressure on him to make plays and he forced somethings but whenever he says he doesnt want to be known as a runner, and he tries to be a pure pocket passer well he might as well go sit on the bench now, it\'s like Shaq saying he doesnt want to be known as a center anymore and trying to play the point. Do what works not what you want to do to prove people wrong. Another thing that really killed my appreciation of brooks is, after every mistake and int. he had the biggest goofiest smile on his face. I think he should take some responsiblity and think about it at least until the next snap. Anyways, AB has the potential to be one of the best QB\'s in the league and all the talk of him being the only qb in Saints history to win a playoff game is misleading, One playoff victory does not make you one of the best qb\'s in the game today, Trent Dilfer won a SB and do you think he should be our QB? Get real and leave the playoffs in the past and worry about this year coming up, so far AB has had more bad years and games then good, so 3 good games doesnt make him all that great. Yeah he did have good stats last year but when it really mattered and everything was on the line, where did his stats go then, straight south. Until he puts together a consistent season and does something with it then he\'s just another QB tryin to make it, I\'d rather have Trent Dilfer and a SB ring then AB and league leading stats sittin home for the playoffs.....

Aaron Brooks
 

I disagree with all of this Aaron Brooks bashing. He has shown improvement from the 2001 season to the 2002 season. His INT\'s decreased and his TD passes increased. And if he didn\'t get hurt last year I believe the Saints would of made the playoffs. He did have a few bad games (i.e. Cleveland) but what quarterbacks don\'t have bad games every once in a while? If it wasn\'t for Brooks (and of course Deuce) the Saints would of had a very bad season because the defense flat out stunk! So if you want to point the finger and blame people for the Saints having a bad season point the finger at Haslett and the defense not Brooks! Brooks is the leader and he\'s shown leadership capabilities like when he lead his team to 3 fourth quarter comebacks last season. And wasn\'t he \"leading\" the NFC in touchdown passes until late in the season when he got hurt? And so what he smiles after throwing picks. Brett smiles after throwing picks but do we hear Packer fans moaning and groaning over it. He probably smiles because he knows that he shouldn\'t be making mistakes. Brooks is the man. Some you Saint fans must don\'t want to see your team win. You have the best quarterback in franchise history and you (some not all) dog him. You may never see your team win the Super Bowl if y\'all keep this up. You guys should be dogging Haslett not Brooks.

[Edited on 12/6/2003 by TonyMax]

Aaron Brooks
 

I\'ll give you that if you give me that his completion percentage has been steadily on the decline since he started his first game, which had him ranked 26th among NFL QB\'s last year, right inbetween Vick and Plummer. And don\'t mention one word about Vick, it was his first year as a starter. This is his year to prove his worth. I\'ll sit back and watch, as I\'ve been a tweener on the subject since the end of the last season. but if he doesn\'t get that completion percentage up into the 62% range (from his dreadful 53% from last year), he\'ll have a helluva time convincing many folks around here.

Aaron Brooks
 

BlackandBlue,

Surely you know about some of the greatest QB\'s in the NFL have had worse showings in their first 3-years than Aaron Brooks. You can talk all the stats you want, but the guy has not had time to develop into an elite NFL QB. Do you know how many NFL quaterbacks have had to endure the fans and the media calling for there heads in the begining of their carrears, only for them to go on and have Hall of Fame carrears? Have there been QB\'s that have done better in the same stages of their carrears, sure but if you look at history, it will prove me right.

Aaron Brooks
 

Here are Terry Bradshaws stats for the 1st three years. Yeah I know all you Brook bashers would have cut him, right?


Career Statistics
Passing Rushing
Year Tm G Att Com % Yds TD Int Rtg Att Yds TD
1970 Pit 13 218 83 38.1 1410 6 24 30.4 32 233 1
1971 Pit 14 373 203 54.4 2259 13 22 59.7 53 247 5
1972 Pit 14 308 147 47.7 1887 12 12 64.1 58 346 7

Aaron Brooks
 

Here\'s one more for the Brooks basing crew.

John Elway stats for the first 3-years.


Year G Att. Comp. Pct. Yds. TD INT. Rating

83\' 11 259 123 47.5 1,663 7 14 54.9

84\' 15 380 214 56.3 2,598 18 15 76.8

85\' 16 605 327 327 3,891 22 23 70.0

Seems like Elway regressed a little in his 3rd year too huh? Would you have cut him. Sure you would have. You would have said all the same things about him as your saying about brooks. He runs too much, he\'s to selfish, and on and on and on.

RIGHT??????????????????????????????????/

Aaron Brooks
 

TROY AIKMAN 1ST THREE YEARS

YEAR TEAM G GS Att Comp Pct Yds YPA Lg TD Int Rate
1989 Dallas Cowboys 11 11 293 155 52.9 1749 6.0 75t 9 18 55.7
1990 Dallas Cowboys 15 15 399 226 56.6 2579 6.5 61t 11 18 66.6
1991 Dallas Cowboys 12 12 363 237 65.3 2754 7.6 61 11 10 86.7

See a pattern here. If you don\'t I\'ll fill you in. IT IS NORMAL FOR A QB TO STRUGGLE IN HIS FIRST 3 YEARS. I COULD SHOW YOU MORE BUT HOPEFULLY THIS WILL BE ENOUGH.

Aaron Brooks
 

No, actually what I would be saying is that neither Bradshaw nor Elway, in their first three years, had the talent around him that Brooks does now. And I\'m not calling for his head on a platter, either. I\'m simply saying he needs to be better this next year in order to get some people off his back.

Aaron Brooks
 

B&B,

I\'m not including you in the Brook bashing crew. I don\'t know if I agree with that talent comparison... What about Aikman? Michael Irvan, Emmit Smith, and a damn good O-line.

Aaron Brooks
 

Yeah, and Aikman had a 65% completion percentage during his 3rd year, which just happened to have ended after his 38th game, and he was surrounded by good talent.

Damn, man, do you LIVE on these boards?

EDIT: And also, Elway was the only thing that the Bronco\'s had for a long time. Bradshaw, well, they knew he was going to be a stud as hard as he threw, but Franco Harris didn\'t arrive until 72, and Swann and Stallworth didn\'t arrive until 74.

[Edited on 13/6/2003 by BlackandBlue]

Aaron Brooks
 

He also had 11TD\'s and 10ints.

As far as living on here.........it\'s a long story.............

Aaron Brooks
 

We can debate the talent that a QB had in his first 3-years forever, but your never going to convince me that Brooks had the better players than every hall of fame QB that ever played. It just kills me how everyone his calling for his head. What ever happened to giving a QB time to develop?

Aaron Brooks
 

First off, YOU were the one that wanted to compare Brooks\' first three years to HoF QB\'s. Second, YOU were the one that mentioned Bradshaw, Elway, and Aikman\'s names, now you want to suddenly change that to EVERY QB that is in the HoF? Third, if you\'re deadset in you thinking, why bring it up in the first place?
Keep back tracking- at least you are good at something.

Aaron Brooks
 

First off, I only listed 3 HOF QB\'S becuase I didn\'t feel it necessary to list every damn one of them. Second, I thought you would know that it is common for almost every QB in the first few years to struggle(except Marino) Third if you can\'t admit I\'m right, it\'s OK to be wrong.

Aaron Brooks
 

I happen to be wrong twice a year, and this would not be one of them. I pointed out a few fallacies in your argument which you never addressed directly. You can lead a horse to water...
This has turned out to be about as productive as a quadriplegic boxing match.

Aaron Brooks
 

B&B,

You have pointed out no flaws, my man!!! Let me count em\'. Oh there are none. Don\'t come half stepping. Show what ya know. My point was to everyone who was calling for Brook\'s head, I was merely showing what a few HOF QB\'s did in their first few years, so they would know they would have cut these guys back then, with their way of their way of thinking. Guess I can lump you in with that group? Get off the fence and say one way or the other.

Aaron Brooks
 

B&B - 1, Billy - 0.

B&B, I must agree about the total waste of time it is to talk to some of these guys who love Brooks about his flaws. He is a decent quarterback, which is something that the Saints rarely have, but he is not great... I don\'t even know if he\'s good. It\'s hard to tell.

The important thing to me is this. If we took Aaron Brooks out of our lineup and replaced him with a QB like Trent Dilfer - who physically is not nearly as gifted, but who is a leader and knows how to manage the game and play mistake-free football, would our team be better, worse, or the same?

If you say better, then Brooks is not a very good QB. In fact, he\'s hurting the team with his play.

If you say worse, then you believe Brooks is truly a marquee player for us... and I would argue that you don\'t fully understand the type of offense our coaching staff claims to be running... or should be running.

If you say the same, then he is average at best, b/c it\'s not like Dilfer is a hall of famer.

Aaron Brooks
 

WhoDat,

You keep talking about Aaron Brook not being a leader and comparing him to QB\'s like Trent Dilfer. Let\'s talk about Dilfer. He was put in a system and asked not to lose the game. When they did pass, they kept the passes short, for the most part. They told him if there was any doubt, throw the ball away. Their plan was to rely on the defense. Trent Dilfer showed he could follow directions, I\'ll give you that, but you take away that defense and put the game in the QB\'s hands(which happens a lot) and he wouldn\'t win many games for you. Now lets move on to your favorite subject, Brooks not fitting in our system. Our system is to throw the ball all over the field and score a lot of points. I ask you who is suited better to do this, Dilfer or Brooks. Our QB is asked to buy time with his feet until the receivers get open, not to throw the ball away. Dilfer was terrible when Tampa put the burden on him to win. He sucked. So, when you say Brooks doesn\'t fit our system, it makes me wonder what kind of system you think McCarthy is trying to run. Could you please anwser that for me. I think your problem is you want McCarty to put Aaron Brooks in an offense like Dilfer had, not with Brooks. Your comparing apples to oranges.


If following directions make a leader then Dilfers a daisy.

[Edited on 14/6/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

Aaron Brooks
 

I\'m sorry... our offensive strategy is to ask our QB to \"buy time with his feet until the receivers get open\"??? Are you serious? I hope that was a joke.

You see Billy, if you believe what McCarthy says, then the Saints run a west coast style offense. The west coast offense is fundamentally different than other previous systems b/c it augments the running game with SHORT QUICK PASSES to its receivers, and then let\'s the receivers make a play with their feet.

You\'re right Dilfer would not have been all that successful in Baltimore without that defense. But he also didn\'t have his conference\'s leading rusher or one of the five best receiving corps in football behind him... so you want to talk apples to apples... practice what you preach.

Again, I\'ll make this easy. What other team do you feel the Saints offense is most similar to? The Rams? Oakland, New England, Pittsburgh.... who? What kind of quarterbacks do those teams have? Gannon, Warner, Brady, Maddox... oh yeah, those guys totally \"buy time with their feet\" and then make plays with their own athleticism right? Nice try Billy... you got anything else?

Aaron Brooks
 

And one other thing... when was the last time a QB who was more athlete than manager was in the Super Bowl?? Minnesota, Pittsburgh (with Kordell), and Philly have been most successful in recent years and none of them could get past their Conference Title game.

On the other hand - Rams, twice in four years, Oakland - last year, New England - two years ago...

Aaron Brooks
 

WhoDat,

You are trippin\' on hard durgs. Foget about what the system is called. They have an offense that is nothing like any of the offenses that you keep refering to. They ask Brooks to use all of his skills to make plays, (YES THIS INCLUDES USING HIS FEET TO BUY TIME.) This is a west coast offense by name only. Come on, where are all of those short passes your talking about. They spread the field out 4-wide and throw the ball all over the place. They ask Brooks to make plays not throw the ball away, becaue they know he can scramble. This is where you are confused: You are under the impression that we run a ball control offense and Brooks is simply asked not to make mistakes. YOUR WRONG WRONG WRONG.

To anwser your last question, let me clear up one thing. Your definiton of a manager seems to be someone who can\'t run. Does the name Steve Young or Elway ring a bell? I know your going to come back and say they were also managers of the game. For the last time what mistakes does Brooks make that they didn\'t?


[Edited on 16/6/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

Aaron Brooks
 

Wrong reads, back peddling, throwing into traffic, forcing the ball into Horn all of the time... did those guys make the same kind of mistakes? Absolutely, just not with the same frequency that Brooks makes, which is why they were good managers and Brooks isn\'t.... or part of the reason.


OK, I said our O looks like the Rams, Raiders, Patties, and/or Steelers... you say it\'s \"nothing like any of the offenses that I keep refering to.\" So you tell me, which team is our offense most like? Obviously not those... so who?

Aaron Brooks
 

If I had to say, I would say the Rams. Is Kurt Warner a good manager of the game? He made way more mistake than Brooks last year and he won a superbowl. And yes they made them with more frequency. I can prove it if you like.

Aaron Brooks
 

I can\'t give you that one because I can recall when the receivers were dropping balls like crazy. Stallworth in the Carolina game (the 1st one), Jake Reed in the Caronlina game (the 2nd game) and Sloan versus Detroit.

Aaron Brooks
 

Yes, Kurt Warner is a MUCH better manager than Brooks... I cannot argue that he had a bad year last year... the entire Rams team did... but if you would like to compare Warner\'s stats or defining characteristics to Aaron Brooks, I\'d be happy to. You\'re only proving yourself wrong Billy. Warner has been dubbed smart, accurate, the kind of guy that can stand up, get the ball out fast, and pick you apart all day given 3 seconds to throw. Are you going to tell me that sounds like Aaron Brooks? If so then please send over whatever you\'ve been smoking in your next post, b/c I definitely need some of that...

Aaron Brooks
 

WhoDat,

After the past couple of years that Warner had, how can you possibly say he is a great manager of the game. In your book that I read on \" HOW TO BE A LEADER\" , it said that a leaders job is to distribute the ball and not try to win the game.

Warner tried to carry that team the last couple of years all by himself. The guy tried to make something out of nothing on every play last year. The guy made more mistakes than O.J. Simpson, trying to clean up a murder scene.

You also said a leaders job is not to score points. When Warner was in his hey day, he was the mad bomber.

You need to come out with your second version of \" HOW TO BE A LEADER\" BOOK.

Oh, and I\'ve been smoking pack after pack of KNOWLEDGE. I\'ll send you a pack over.

Aaron Brooks
 

Really... did you get that \"knowledge\" off a guy selling it on the street in the french quarter? B/c that\'s the funniest \"knowledge\" I\'ve ever seen... let\'s take a look shall we?

Kurt Warner\'s stats for the last four years.

YEAR TEAM G GS Att Comp Pct Yds YPA Lg TD Int Rate
1999 St. Louis Rams 16 16 499 325 65.1 4353 8.7 75t 41 13 109.2
2000 St. Louis Rams 11 11 347 235 67.7 3429 9.9 85t 21 18 98.3
2001 St. Louis Rams 16 16 546 375 68.7 4830 8.8 65t 36 22 101.4
2002 St. Louis Rams 7 6 220 144 65.5 1431 6.5 43 3 11 67.4

We\'re going to throw out last year b/c I\'ve already admitted it was a bad year... and besides he was out most of the year with injuries. So between 1999 and 2001 Kurt Warner averaged 4,204 yards, nearly 33 TDs, and 17 INTs... more importantly HIS COMPLETION PERCENTAGE AVERAGES OUT TO OVER 67% AND HIS QB RATING IS NEARLY 103!!!!

If you believe a guy who has an AVERAGE completion percentage and QB rating of 67% and 103 over 43 games in three years is inefficient or a poor manager, then you don\'t understand football... especially considering the guy has been injured consistently since 2000 when he only played in 11 games and still had numbers better than Brooks!!!!

You\'re right though Billy... \"guy made more mistakes than O.J. Simpson, trying to clean up a murder scene\". Good call...

Aaron Brooks
 

In defense of the Rams (oh god what I am doing), they have had an enormous amount of missed games by starters. To a degree that no team recovers in one year. Kurt Warner is a better student of the game than Brooks. Warner does not have anywhere near the athletic ability of Aaron Brooks, and it just so happens that Vermeil/Martz offense is very QB friendly in terms of amassing stats. One thing that Warner hasn\'t done is be durable and play through pain. A great player not only plays through pain, but uses the pain as a focus to be better. Example, Deuce in the Tampa Bay game-modern, Kellen Winslow in that marathon vs. the Dolphins. When Warner returns from injury he looks really shaky. Three hand injuries that have kept him out of alot of games. He did compile probably one of the best three seasons by a QB though( SB, 2-MVP\'s, stats, etc.). He\'s had one bad year, made worse by injuries to the whole team and himself, and the psychotic degradation of their \"life by a string\" coach. He did try to make up ground too fast coming off injury and was probably rushing himself back (my speculation) because of Bulger\'s play. If he did rush back then that is not indicative of a leader as it would be team first, but it is indicative of a competitor. Warner is passionate, something that I can\'t say about Brooks. I don\'t think I\'ve ever seen him play with passion, save that first 49er game.
Warner was simply executing game plan and throwing the plays Martz called the prior three seasons. His goal on every throw is a TD, but if any QB wouldn\'t say that then he\'s a punter. He wasn\'t chucking the ball up into the endzone every time just to get TD\'s, but those crossing routes against the zone were well executed and just went for alot of TD\'s. The Rams have great downfield blocking for one thing.

What the hell was I talking about anyways?

Aaron Brooks
 

Whodat,

You said a leader shouldn\'t make mistakes. In 2001 he threw for 36 touchdowns and 22ints. Let me count how many mistakes he made. OH IT WAS 22.


In 2002 he didn\'t play that many games, although he did play when his thumb was hurt and didn\'t want to come out of the game. I remember someone telling me Brooks wasn\'t a leader because he wouldn\'t come out of the game when he was hurt. OH YEAH, THAT WAS YOU. Anyway, the short time he was in there, he made 11 BIG OLE\' MISTAKES, and led his team out of the playoffs.

Now, let me finish this for once and all. You say Brooks is not a leader based on his first 3 years of play in the NFL. Your defiining factor for a leader is completion percentage. You claim that we need to get rid of Books and get a leader like Trent Dilfer (OH MY GOD!!)

Based on your theory, you would have said the samething about John Elway based on his stats I have listed below? OF COURSE NOT.

Because you have a keen sense for what it takes to be a NFL quarterback and you would have known that those were only growing pains and the mistakes would be corrected (i.e., throwing into coverage, scrambling when you should have stayed in the pocket, etc.)

Yes, if you would have been John Elways coach at the begining of his carear, you would have cut him and signed Steve Deburg, who was a great manger of the game, it kept him in the league for many years. But you would have deprived John Elway from getting to the HALL OF FAME, with your thinking.

But I would have let him develop and correct his mistakes. Sure I would have had to put up with the media and fans like WhoDat screaming for me to get rid of Elway. I would not have and what Elway went on to do is my favorite subject...........HISTORY !!!!

John Elway first 3-years.

1985 DEN 16 327 605 3891 54.0 22 23 70.2
1984 DEN 15 214 380 2598 56.3 18 15 76.8
1983 DEN 11 123 259 1663 47.5 7 14 54.9

Oh, and I know you are going to need to save face and say he didn\'t have the talent like Brooks has around him.

To you, I say the Broncos went to the playoffs with Elway as a rookie starter and lost in the first round. Sounds like another QB I know........Aaron Brooks....And a true leader should know what talent he does and does not have, and utilize the talent he does have.

John Elway is the best leader I can think of in the NFl (see The DRIVE) and if you were to call him and ask him if he made the some of the same mistakes Brooks had, I\'m sure he\'s be glad to tell you that he did.

Now, put that in your pipe and smoke away !!!!!!!










[Edited on 17/6/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

[Edited on 17/6/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

Aaron Brooks
 

Leadership is not something you can define with stats. Would anyone say that while the Broncos were going 5-11 in the early \'90\'s that Elway was any less of leader than he had been when he took them to the SuperBowl? Of course, not. He may have become a better leader over the years which helped him win the SuperBowl, but I doubt that is true either.

Brooks\' leadership is not awe inspiring because he has yet to distance himself from and put himself above his teammates. He wants to be one of the boys and until he realizes that a QB is semi-management or quasi-management, he will struggle in this area.

Brooks has proven that he is capable of playing QB in the NFL with a great deal of success. His detractors want to ignore all the times when he came through in the clutch or when he did only that which was expected of him. Brooks led the Saints to a 6-2 record in the first half of last season. He also led them to the 3-5 record in the second half. It\'s not about talent.

Brooks\' main problem is the same problem I see in Haslet, McCarthy and Venturi: Adaptation. When things change or situations become adverse, our coaches haven\'t been able to meet those changes. McCarthy and Venturi could not adapt their schemes. Haslet can\'t seem to keep the team focused.

I\'m not saying Brooks doesn\'t have any faults but to say you\'d rather have a QB like Dilfer is insane. In Dilfer\'s best year he threw 21 TD\'s to 12 Int\'s. That was with the Bucs. When he won the SuperBowl with the Ravens, he was something like 11/10 (TD/Int) in 10 starts. It\'s easy to give him credit for being mature and for managing the games because he won games without great stats, but I say it\'s easy to win when a team\'s Defense keeps other teams from scoring as well as the Ravens did - not to mention in some situations that defense would score more points than the opposition\'s offense.

Who have we missed getting that is betterfor us than Brooks? I can only think of Brian Greise at this moment, but he lacks leadership as well.

[Edited on 17/6/2003 by ScottyRo]

[Edited on 17/6/2003 by ScottyRo]

Aaron Brooks
 

ScottyRo,


You make some very good points. BUT, You asked the question would anyone say that while the Broncos were going 5-11 in the early 90\'s that Elway was any less of a leader than his superbowl years. Elway started in 83\' and YES, I think many people questioned his leadership skills(except for WhoDat) in his first 3-years and every other QB in their first 3-years (with the exception of a very few.)

Also, you can\'t just throw stats out the window. They are a reflection of the improvment a QB makes. While Brook\'s stats have gone up and down, this year I think you will see an improvement, if history is any indicator.







[Edited on 17/6/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

Aaron Brooks
 

I was referring to his 80\'s SuperBowl trips, not the 90\'s when I mentioned the 5-11 seasons. Elway led the Broncos to the SuperBowl, then a couple years later they stunk. It wasn\'t because he was less of a leader while they stunk, the surrounding cast was less talented.

I don\'t think any of us are leadership guru\'s, btw, so understand that I am only talking about it in terms of how it might be.

Because Elway was such a good leader, he had the ability to lift a team\'s performance up a bit. He\'d make a bad team good and a good team great. I\'d like to see Aaron develop into that type of leader. Right now, I think the team\'s psyche affects Aaron more than his affects the team. I know, however, that you can\'t learn to be a leader. But you can learn to enhance your God-given ability.

If he can\'t do that, then we\'re in trouble as far as going all the way because I still don\'t know who we could get that could replace him and play more effectively.

Aaron Brooks
 

ScottyRo,

Don\'t you think the fans and media were questioning Elway\'s leadership skills in his first 3-years, when he was stinking it up?

Aaron Brooks
 

Speculation won\'t win you any arguments. You\'re probably right in assuming that there were some calling for Elway\'s head, but it\'s still speculative.

Aaron Brooks
 

Hm..........I wonder if I can call some Denver newspapers and get some articles from Elways first 3-years. Can you help a brother out????????