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OK, I know that I've been out of the loop for a while, so am I missing something. A while back I was ripping on the Saints for their poor showing in FA, and everyone said just wait until the draft. Then, a lot of people ripped on them for the draft. Then everyone said wait until June 1st... well, where are all the great players that we're supposed to pick up? I like the pick up from Miami. I like TJones, and Sullivan is a nice draft pick even if we did overvalue him. BUT, considering the tremendous needs we had on defense coming into this off-season, I expected more out of this team. So to all of you fans who have defended the Saints over this off-season... it's June 5th... am I missing rumors about who we may or may not sign? If not, what's your excuse for this team now?
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7 new starters on Defense. EVERY one of the new players is an upgrade over last years starters. 3 of the 4 returning starters are very young and should be ready to step up a notch. 1999 - 2000, Rams revamp their defense in a similar fashion and go from 28th to 3rd. I think 7 new starters IS \"addressing the problems\" What exactly were you expecting? |
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1. Most respected experts thought the Saints did very well in FA. The only knock I heard was that they slightly overpaid for some of them. But wasn\'t it you blasting Benson for not coming off that wallet? I apologize if it was someone else. 2. The VAST majority of experts thought the Saints did GREAT in the draft. I didn\'t hear anybody \"ripping\" the Saints draft. I heard some say they should have taken a CB, but they certainly didn\'t RIP the Saints. The NOLA daycare posters ripped them, but they rip anything, anytime, all the time! With names like MonkeyBrooks and BrooksApe should clue you in to their intelligence levels. 3. I can\'t recall anyone who thought June 1st cuts would be anything more than adding depth at certain positions. Did you let your little brother post for you? [Edited on 5/6/2003 by tweeky] |
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The Rams also had a new defense coordinator, so don\'t expect alot out of this defense. I\'ll be surprise if this defense be better than last year
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you\'re not happy with our offseason or our draft
so what would you have done differantly? i can\'t think of any free agents with the exception of colvin and spikes that were great players, the draft was pretty devoid of depth, and the june 1st cuts might as well been skipped this year considering the talent that was released i think we did pretty well considering the lack of talent in the offseason pool this year, compared to last year we upgraded the CB LB DT and S positions, even with the same D coordinator (whom i\'m not convinced was the problem) this defense should be better |
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Well said Rusta.
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Damn! Reading Rusta\'s replies are like listening to my dad talk. One long, continuous run-on sentence with no stopping to take a breath. :P
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I think a lot was addressed and addressed well this off season. I questioned some of the draft picks but over all I like the talent brought in. I am excited to see what Sullivan ,Grant and Howard can become.Tebucky is a good addition at saftey and Ambrose should help the secondary. Rusta touched on the biggest error. With the state of our LB\'s I hoped we would have come up with a better answer than Ruff, Rogers and Cie. I don\'t understand why a run at either Colvin or Spikes was not made, We are sitting some ten mil under the cap before the new Horn deal ample money to have addressed the LB position in a much stronger way than we did.
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Boss Bailey. That was my gripe about the draft. We could\'ve traded up just a few spots to grab him. But we didn\'t.
LB is my biggest concern. Of course, I\'ve said this so many times that you\'re all probably tired of hearing it by now. Two more months.... |
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Hmmmmmmmm, he said as he dragged his chair up beside Gator to watch the oncoming fight in this post. He turns to Gator and asks \" Gator, who do you see winning this match between Whodat and tweeky?\" Then he sits back with his ice cold brew and awaits the battle. :D
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I rememeber during free agency fans were defending and then as things progressed, it switched to wait until the draft,you will see. The draft has come and gone and then I remember alot of frustaration on draft day. I won\'t call out names because you are well aware of whom you are, but Sullivan(lots of head scratches),then Stinkycomb(head scratches turned to yanking of hair). So as some of us left feeling numb,others were desperately trying to convinvce yourself that we would be fine. But the majority of the posts said just wait and see after June 1st. You know it does appear we keep waiting and seeing. Do we have a strong MLB? A good backup RB? Are we strong enough at the CB and Safety slots? Will Grant padlock the refridgerator door? What strength at center do we have signed or experience to play? We have one rookie on the front D line,whom MAY work out. It is fine to be a fan and be optimistic, be realism is another issue.
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MLB: Ruff was a solid but unspectacular LB who was demoted when they signed a PRO-BOWLER. Ruff would start on most teams in this league. He\'s a B+ at his position. At the very least he is an upgrade to Mr Invisible (Clemmons). Darren Smith is one of the best LB\'s in coverage in the NFL. Middle LB may not be a strength, but it isn\'t a glaring weakness. The 2 top MLB\'s in the draft were WEAK and injury prone. CB: We\'ve debated this 10 zillion times, we needed frontline help a lot more than a CB. Next years draft and FA is supposed to be LOADED at CB. As our 2nd pick came around the only CB\'s left were all rated to be development types. No 1st year starters. But you can refernce the 5000 earlier posts on this debate. Safety\'s: Polamalu was the only safety rated as a 1st year starter. Safety\'s rarely go in the 1st round because they are a dime a dozen. Usually CB\'s who don\'t pan out. I liked this kid, but not at a 1st rounder. Center: Jacox and Bentley and most likely Fontenot. Centers??? We got freakin centers out the yang!!! RB: backup is all we need. Keaton, Fenderson, Banks... One of these 3 will probably step up, if not there are always capable vets cut before the season starts. We don\'t need a 16 game performer, we need a stand-in type who could go 3 to4 games if Deuce goes down. But of all your concerns, this is probably the most valid. There were none in the draft that would move in front of the 3 I mentioned. DL: Decent, not great but with a lot of upside. An improvement over last year to say the least. I still see this as a work in progress, but there wasn\'t a ton of DT\'s to nabb in FA that were significantly better than what we already have. You don\'t replace a B player with another B player at a higher salary. Bottom Line: Every team in the league has positions with opportunities for improvement. I personally think the Saints did a good job addressing the most glaring considering what was available. |
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Well we did make good offseason upgrades. But was enough to become a champion? St. Louis did upgrade their defense a lot between their Superbowl Seasons. Lubby Smith is a better explaination for that than new players. We may be a better defense, but can we stop the top offenses in the league. In refernces to our weakness:
LB- Ruff is an upgrade over Clemons because he stop the run, nothing else though. He was not pushed by a pro bowler in San Diego. He was pushed out by a third round draft pick, Ben Leber. Edwards was an OLB, but SD thought Leber, Edwards at MLB and Seau would be the best combinantion, not the previous starters plus Edwards. S- Cannot complain here, I think this is definetly an upgrade here CB- If Ambrose is so great, why did we not try to resign him a few years ago. I think he has lost about two steps. I will hold tight that CB, along with RB and DT, is a position where where athleticism and instincts rule not knowledge and experience. DT- Sullivan and Smith with Jackson and Chase have the potential to be great. They also have the potential to be horrible C and RB- no complaints unless Keaton is not the guy I thought he could be. |
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There were not a lot of quality free agents out there and it\'s not like the Saints were the only teams pursuing those guys. With that being said, I don\'t see any of our free agents making a huge impact. I do however see improvements at middle linebacker, free safety, and cornerback. The biggest thing the Saints were able to do this year was to move up in the top 10 in the draft. The reason they were able to do this is because of what they did in the draft last year, with the drafting of Duece. We shipped Rickey Williams off to the Dolphins and got a first round draft pick and have a better player at running back in Duece. Not too bad in my book. With the drafting of Sullivan our D-Line is instantly better. The question is did we upgrade the defense enough to get into the playoffs and make a run to the superbowl? I wish I could anwser that question, but the truth is that\'s why they play the games. We will find out if the off season moves can get us there.
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Which Grant is padlocking the fridge? I wasn\'t aware that either had a weight problem? Now Jackson, on the other hand needs a gun to go off if the door is opened. ;)
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Well, it appears I\'ve really stirred up the Sh!t with this post... I am kind of sad that Pak and Gator haven\'t waded into this one though.
With all due respect to the new guys, a lot of you weren\'t around (on this board) in January when we started talking about Free Agency and the Draft, etc. Way back then, most everyone on this board was expecting to see a \"revamped\" defense. Some people here were saying you would see five or even seven new starters on defense. The so-called experts (media men and analysts) were saying the same... expect the Saints to focus only on D this off-season. Tweeky wants to deal in reality, so let\'s do just that... We\'ll start at safety. We replaced a Pro Bowl caliber safety (and YES, Sammy Knight is exactly that) with a should-be but never has been safety who has the physical tools, but is yet to prove himself on the field week in and week out. He will be flanked by a second-year first time starter. And get this, the safety position might be our MOST improved!! That\'s nuts! At CB we have the same group of guys, we just added one other 30-something year old who will be average at best. At LB - by FAR our weakest position on D, we replaced a very good outside linebacker (who our dumb coached forced to play inside) with a second string never has been whose best year EVER in the NFL is significantly WORSE than Clemons\' year was last year. Instead of just moving Clemons back to outside LB where he led the team in Sacks and Tackles, and led the LBs in fumble recoveries, passes defensed and interceptions. we got rid of him and replaced him with Orlando Ruff - a two down guy at best. He will be flanked by a second-year starter who played well below expectations last season (Hodge in case you haven\'t figured it out yet) and a first-year starter. Now if that doesn\'t make you bubble with confidence, I don\'t know what will. Finally, comes DT (b/c our DEs have always been good)... We replace two fat-a$$es with a rookie and a perinial backup. Whew - if that doesn\'t say upgrade then nothing does. While there is definitely potential for the defense to get better, it will take a whole lot of players coming through and playing beyond (reasonable) expectations in order for it to improve more than a couple of spots in the rankings. You want to face facts? Let\'s face them. The Saints came into the off-season with more money available under the cap then 27 other teams. They had a ton of draft picks and plenty of wiggle room to restructure and trade good players. If you believe that Tebucky Jones, Orlando Ruff, and Ashley Ambrose is a major upgrade on defense through free agency I have to wonder about your ability to judge talent. Sullivan and Grant are decent pickups through the draft, but neither look to be game changers this year. Step one should have been firing Venturi. I like our pick up of Jones and Rodgers, but let\'s face it, those are the only two Free Agents worth a damn that we picked up this year. With our incredible cap situation and huge needs on D, I\'d say that\'s pretty disappointing. |
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WhoDat 1 Tweeky 0
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Whodat, I can not agree with you more. The draft was pathetic, I like the deal with Arizonia but the picks :question: , I was pulling and scratching my head all day(Jon Stinchcomb over Rashean Mathis) passing up on Bradie James. Yes, The saints have a pretty good draft but the guys they could\'ve pick .... well, its just hurt to see them pass on.
My biggest question will be since we lost our true leader(Sammy Knight) on defense which young guy will step up and fill those shoes? |
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Beware Whodat. Their both lurking. LOL :o
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Good luck to the newer guys. I\'ve been in your shoes before. YOU WILL ALL FEEL THE WRATH OF WHODAT! MUAHHHHHHHHHHH HA HA HA HA HA
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aight DAT
i think everyone here agrees that the D was not VASTLY improved like we all hoped before the draft, everyone has done postional analysis to death i think you are still missing the point: other than spikes and colvin (whom both cost a fortune) who was out there? there were no big names that we could afford at the positions we needed the draft speaks for itself, i too wish we had jumped on some guys that we opprtunites to get, however the talent in the draft this year wasn\'t all that great what free agent CB should we have signed? what LB? |
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The only other linebacker out there that I would\'ve like to had besides Spikes was not Roosevelt Colvin. It was Chris Claiborne. I think a lot of us in here were screaming for him during free agency after Spikes signed with Buffalo. From what I remember, he went to the Vikes pretty cheap. Now why we didn\'t make a play for him is beyond me.
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Sammy Knight, Pro Bowl Caliber?? So is Ronnie Lott but I don\'t see him on anyones roster now. Sammy lost a step, hell he lost 2 steps. At last report he couldn\'t break 5 seconds. What do you think they drafted Mel Mitchell for anyway? To remain a back-up? No he was going to learn a year from Knight and take over. It happens, deal with it. Rashaen Mathis??? Hes a guy that needs a year to develop into a quality starter. We drafted Rashean Mathis lastyear, only his name was Keyou Craver. Here\'s a stinging dose of reality for all of us. We are not the freaking NY Yankees. We are a very small market team, in a shrinking market. You want to max out our cap every year bringing in the Takeo Spikes and the Hugh Douglas\' and the Bill Parcells??? I hope you can afford the air fair it\'ll take to watch our beloved Saint home games in Los Angeles, cause it ain\'t gonna happen here. For this team to survive and thrive in this area is going to take two things. Stay under budget (way under budget), and land the \"value\" free agents that are young, relatively inexpensive with an upside thats worth gambling on. It worked to perfection with Joe Horn. He is the blueprint. Ruff may be the next Albert Connell or maybe the next Joe Horn. Who knows? But I can tell you who doesn\'t know... a bunch of armchair forum posters who get their panties twisted because our team didn\'t get an all-pro at every position in FA. Every thing you said about Orlando Ruff I heard about Joe Horn. Only there was way more *****in from \"forum GM\'s\" about his huge salary for some \"never-has-been, never-will- be\". DT- Uhhh???, I don\'t see how anybody can complain about what we\'ve done. Hell if Smith and Sullivan simply get in the way it\'ll be a vast improvement over last year. Kenny Smith is entering his 4th year. 3 years of development for a 3rd round DL with huge potential is about on course so your \"perinneal back-up\" diatribe holds no water. Sounds like an aimless rant to me. It was our most glaring weakness last year and we addressed it with our 1st pick in the draft, selecting the 2nd highest rated DT on our board. (boy that was pretty stupid huh?) If we had drafted a cover-corner with that pick the only thing he\'d cover is his eyes as Duckett or Alstott or Davis breezed past our DL untouched at full speed. Perhaps we can trade for Tampa\'s cover-corner. Oh yeah, THEY DON\'T HAVE ONE! I\'m no freakin genious but I\'m pretty sure a cover corner won\'t do you any damn good when your opponents are rushing 6 yards a pop. To pirate a lyric from one of my fav\'s... I\'m a truth addict, Ahh sh*t I got head rush! [Edited on 7/6/2003 by tweeky] [Edited on 7/6/2003 by tweeky] [Edited on 9/6/2003 by tweeky] |
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ALL HAIL! KING OF THE ARMCHAIR FORUM POSTERS.......TWEEKY!!!!!! Or in redneck slang it would be AWWWWW, HELLLLLLLL!!!!!!!! Not a great move in attacking more than attacked you. Stick to the source, buddy. Don\'t try to bring us all down to your level. Then you\'ll have an entire forum of posters raining hell on your parade. You make valid points, but classifying everyone in that group just asks for trouble.
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rage against the machine...
but anyway back to the subject... are u kidding me.. sammy losing a step...? 2 of them at that... the guy lead the team in tackles last year not to mention the year before... chris claireborn would have been nice and so would have spikes but they both would have cost the team more then they were willing to pay for a LB.. instead they signed ruff and traded for rogers who i think will be superb in N.O. keyou craver was playing very well before he got hurt in the 5th or 6th week... he was all over the ball and had several pass breakups... ashley ambrose, we will have to see if he works out.. he might just be a solid pick up for a nickel corner or he might just play well and start... only time will tell the only thing that i am disappointed in on D is the DT spot...trading hand was great b/c we got something in return but it will only stay great if kelley works out.. if not then all we did was just release hand a month in advance, still on the subject of hand... he reported to seahawks camp in shape, jackson shows up here fat and out of breath with a subway sammich in his mouth.. claiming to be on a new diet... maybe we should have kept hand and traded jackson.... but anyway.... im not betting on jackson staying with the team.. i hope the other guys can step up... lets face it....our D has changed.. there are new faces and we will only see how good we really have done once the season starts... |
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[Edited on 7/6/2003 by tweeky] |
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Joe.I was speaking of Ulysses S. Grant.......felt he was bulking up a bit to much.....it\'s called a brainfart. I don\'t really need to say anymore ,I said it and my points were all substantiated. Tweeky, thanks for your help, although it took a couple posts longer than I thought it would for you to see the truth ,the light,the New Orleasn Saints way.
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Man Tweety, How did I miss the armchair and panty twister part........I feel a call to verbal arms
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\"There is a light that never goes out\" - Nobody remembers this band I\'ll bet. I\'ll be stunned and awestruck. |
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what I want to know, who is these two people you kept refering to \"everyone\" and \"a lot of people\"? Obviously you can tell by your replies not everyone shares the opinion of your two friends. They have done a lot and signing Akili Smith soon...
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Akili is would be a key signing? Maybe, I realize he could do with a change of scenery. But Smith has really impressed you?
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actually trading hand doesnt remove his cap # from us we still have to pay a portion of his salary and it counts against the cap, when we traded hand we got a 1 mil pay cut for this year... so in actuality we are still paying hand 4 million dollars this year... and yes he did have weight problems but he also actually came to camp at 326, near his playing weight...... i dont see where the problem would have been at the moment... o wait i found it... its on our team.. and its called grady jackson......
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BTW: When do the \"new guys\" earn their \"fleur de lis\"? (pardon the spelling) |
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Tweeky meet Pak,.........Pak, eat tweeky. LOL You ain\'t seen nothing yet tweeky. I\'d have to agree with D. Be careful of grouping everyone in your posts. Surely you don\'t want to P_ss me off too? :o
[Edited on 7/6/2003 by JOESAM2002] |
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Well, just wait until the season starts!!!
How was that? :) |
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Yes, but don\'t worry Tweeky, we won\'t hit you in the face with pillowcases full of rocks.
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