Someone please point to me where I'm being dumb

papz · 04-20-2007, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by xan

We need another high draft pick WR like we need another Sullivan.

And who said that Henderson was eratic at best? Football Outsiders ranked him the highest in DVOA for 2006 (defense adjusted value over the average WR) in the league and he was rated the 17th best receiver overall. In other words, he was better than Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Marcus Colston, et al., for every down he lined up when the difficulty of the opponent was factored in. He may not have caught every ball, but he wasn't even tops on the team as far as drops. The only complaint one might have is that he missed several games because of the sprain he got running for a TD vs. the Falcons. Otherwise he might have had more of a noticeable (to whomever made that igorant assessment) impact.

You have to wonder why Brees didn't throw more Henderson's way given his production.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/player...e?statsId=6809

Come on xan, those stats mean crap and you know it. You're digging too deep and I'm pretty sure we all know Henderson is very inconsistent. We are Saint fans.

saintsrule · 04-20-2007, 04:23 PM

I think they will get the BPA, who may start or just ass depth.

xan · 04-20-2007, 08:08 PM

Gee, it's like you guys think I don't watch the games or even recognize how players are being utilized. Let's see how much you guys don't know:

**He started 5 of the last 6 games of the regular season and the Philly playoff game (and was inserted in the second offensive play of the Bears game) so your observation is WRONG that Coach of the Year Payton knew enough not to start him.

**Beginning with the TB game (after recovering from his injury against the falcons) he started 6 of those 9 games. In the games he did not start, only against Cincy did he have a catch (9 of them). Againts Pittsburgh no balls were thrown his way, even though he played and against NYG he had two long balls knocked down by severe winds. Games Henderson did not start were bad weather games, where the offensive gameplan did not have as much of a vertical component.

**In the last 11 games of the season in which he played, he caught nearly all the catchable passes, dropping two of the total 43 passes his way, which he caught 26 passes. Of those 43 passes, only 32 were considered "catchable".

**Most of Henderson's routes were either deep releases or fake releases. In instances where he was on a fake release, he was 3rd or 4th in the progression; usually these balls were tossed out of bounds beyond his reach.

**In the Saints' scheme, where the high percentage route is usually under 10 yards, Henderson's roll was to draw the safety away from the primary target. This usually meant running fast down field. You can't do that to a receiver every down, so Copper and Jones also filled the roll. Copper was the beneficiary of single coverage many times because he is not as fast nor considered as much of a receiving threat compared to Bush, Colston or Henderson. Copper's opportunities were much greater, but he did not produce relative.

Copper had more drops, more fumbles and more penalties while catching fewer passes for fewer yards than Henderson.

Inconsistant? get it right.

Henderson was a lethal weapon last year and will be better this year.

Bobaganoosh · 04-20-2007, 08:57 PM

I think the point people are trying to make is that Henderson is really good at what he does...Run deep and either catch the ball or draw the safety away from the underneath routes. he is not an over the middle target. he is not very good at releasing for underneath routes. I like Henderson. I think he had a really good year...but to say the Saints couldnt use another WR is foolish. They really need another "bigger" WR to pair with Colston when Henderson is running the deep routes. But people can blast me too because i think the Saints should take either Jarrett or Sidney Rice over any of the other WR's in the draft (aside from Johnson of course).

hagan714 · 04-21-2007, 12:06 AM

He has a world of talent yes. But why is he the 3rd or 4th WR in the progession? Why is he running mostly deep routes or fake routes? I go along with drawing the safeties off. One thing that has been said about him is those are really the only things he can do well. He does not work in the short area very well. His ability to grasp the playbook has always been questioned. I think it was simplifed for him by the coaches.

spkb25 · 04-21-2007, 01:00 AM

the guy did catch a couple of nice deep balls last year. i can't complain about his progress. hope he has a better year this year.

hagan714 · 04-21-2007, 08:05 AM

Do not expect to see as 1,2,3 option. 4 or 5 is what I expect. I like the signing myself. I look at him as more of a players coach. I watched him play here in New England for years. He is solid and he is smart. Work ethics is among the best in the NFL. He left here becuase of money. He was low balled badly. Pissed the fans off big time. They called it a slap in face. He always got a warm welcome when he came home as visitor. Even when he was on IR. The fans still talk about him with a loving passion in there voice. He was the WR that was clutch. In a big game you knew he was going to get 3 to 4 key catches. When the game was on the line he always stepped up on that final drive. I will go as far as saying,

"Without him the Patriots would have a few less rings."

I can not count the times he was the one to set up Adam Venturi for the game winning kicks. The Pats got to the superbowls by winning alot of close games. He is a player you have to listen to.
If he can rub some of that off on these young bucs, trust me, it will be worth every penny. Trust Shawn on this one. He coached him and coached against him.

He will by no way effect the draft. No player on the roster will effect this draft.

04-20-2007, 03:07 PM	#11
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,744	Originally Posted by xan We need another high draft pick WR like we need another Sullivan. And who said that Henderson was eratic at best? Football Outsiders ranked him the highest in DVOA for 2006 (defense adjusted value over the average WR) in the league and he was rated the 17th best receiver overall. In other words, he was better than Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Marcus Colston, et al., for every down he lined up when the difficulty of the opponent was factored in. He may not have caught every ball, but he wasn't even tops on the team as far as drops. The only complaint one might have is that he missed several games because of the sprain he got running for a TD vs. the Falcons. Otherwise he might have had more of a noticeable (to whomever made that igorant assessment) impact. You have to wonder why Brees didn't throw more Henderson's way given his production. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/player...e?statsId=6809 Come on xan, those stats mean crap and you know it. You're digging too deep and I'm pretty sure we all know Henderson is very inconsistent. We are Saint fans.

04-20-2007, 04:23 PM	#12
saintsrule 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 657	I think they will get the BPA, who may start or just ass depth.
saintsrule 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 657

04-20-2007, 08:08 PM	#13
xan Professor Crab and Site Donor 2014 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Princeton Posts: 3,369 Blog Entries: 34	Gee, it's like you guys think I don't watch the games or even recognize how players are being utilized. Let's see how much you guys don't know: He started 5 of the last 6 games of the regular season and the Philly playoff game (and was inserted in the second offensive play of the Bears game) so your observation is WRONG that Coach of the Year Payton knew enough not to start him. Beginning with the TB game (after recovering from his injury against the falcons) he started 6 of those 9 games. In the games he did not start, only against Cincy did he have a catch (9 of them). Againts Pittsburgh no balls were thrown his way, even though he played and against NYG he had two long balls knocked down by severe winds. Games Henderson did not start were bad weather games, where the offensive gameplan did not have as much of a vertical component. In the last 11 games of the season in which he played, he caught nearly all the catchable passes, dropping two of the total 43 passes his way, which he caught 26 passes. Of those 43 passes, only 32 were considered "catchable". Most of Henderson's routes were either deep releases or fake releases. In instances where he was on a fake release, he was 3rd or 4th in the progression; usually these balls were tossed out of bounds beyond his reach. **In the Saints' scheme, where the high percentage route is usually under 10 yards, Henderson's roll was to draw the safety away from the primary target. This usually meant running fast down field. You can't do that to a receiver every down, so Copper and Jones also filled the roll. Copper was the beneficiary of single coverage many times because he is not as fast nor considered as much of a receiving threat compared to Bush, Colston or Henderson. Copper's opportunities were much greater, but he did not produce relative. Copper had more drops, more fumbles and more penalties while catching fewer passes for fewer yards than Henderson. Inconsistant? get it right. Henderson was a lethal weapon last year and will be better this year.
	Calvin: "I wish I was a Tiger." Hobbes: "Common lament."

04-20-2007, 08:57 PM	#14
Bobaganoosh PorkchopExpress Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 608 Blog Entries: 2	I think the point people are trying to make is that Henderson is really good at what he does...Run deep and either catch the ball or draw the safety away from the underneath routes. he is not an over the middle target. he is not very good at releasing for underneath routes. I like Henderson. I think he had a really good year...but to say the Saints couldnt use another WR is foolish. They really need another "bigger" WR to pair with Colston when Henderson is running the deep routes. But people can blast me too because i think the Saints should take either Jarrett or Sidney Rice over any of the other WR's in the draft (aside from Johnson of course).
	It's all in the reflexes.

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04-21-2007, 12:06 AM	#15
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	He has a world of talent yes. But why is he the 3rd or 4th WR in the progession? Why is he running mostly deep routes or fake routes? I go along with drawing the safeties off. One thing that has been said about him is those are really the only things he can do well. He does not work in the short area very well. His ability to grasp the playbook has always been questioned. I think it was simplifed for him by the coaches.

04-21-2007, 01:00 AM	#16
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,097	the guy did catch a couple of nice deep balls last year. i can't complain about his progress. hope he has a better year this year.

04-21-2007, 08:05 AM	#17
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Do not expect to see as 1,2,3 option. 4 or 5 is what I expect. I like the signing myself. I look at him as more of a players coach. I watched him play here in New England for years. He is solid and he is smart. Work ethics is among the best in the NFL. He left here becuase of money. He was low balled badly. Pissed the fans off big time. They called it a slap in face. He always got a warm welcome when he came home as visitor. Even when he was on IR. The fans still talk about him with a loving passion in there voice. He was the WR that was clutch. In a big game you knew he was going to get 3 to 4 key catches. When the game was on the line he always stepped up on that final drive. I will go as far as saying, "Without him the Patriots would have a few less rings." I can not count the times he was the one to set up Adam Venturi for the game winning kicks. The Pats got to the superbowls by winning alot of close games. He is a player you have to listen to. If he can rub some of that off on these young bucs, trust me, it will be worth every penny. Trust Shawn on this one. He coached him and coached against him. He will by no way effect the draft. No player on the roster will effect this draft.