Does Vick deserve shot at redemption?
 

Does Vick deserve shot at redemption?

Personally I don't think so but the head of the Atlanta NAACP seams to think so…

FOX Sports on MSN - NFL - Vick deserves shot at redemption

I can understand where he is coming from but considering the fact that Vick knew what was at stake before he got involved with dog fighting.

My feelings on this matter stem from this…
They make all players sign a code of conduct waver before they can sign any NFL contract so he can’t use the excuse “Oh. Well I didn’t know” and not to mention outside of the code of conduct thing in my opinion there should have been a voice in his head that telling this idiot that there was something morally and ethically wrong with the he was doing.

I am now and always will be a believer that you can’t teach commonsense it’s something you either have or you don’t; and obviously Vick didn’t have it considering his many blatant disregards for society as a whole.

That aside I do agree that oneday Vick should be welcome back into community but that does not mean he should ever play pro ball again simply because children worship these guys and that should send they biggest message to America.

Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption?
 

I'm not going to debate this topic; i'm really sick and tired of people always critisizing VICK he is only 27. He made a mistake, DAMN don't we all. I have done tons of things believe me, but by the grace of GOD I have never, ever, been caught. Yes, he deserves another chance, Ray Lewis, Jamal Lewis, c'mon stop hating. How many people in the league cock fight? If they live in Louisiana it's legal or was for a while but if they went to virginia they azz would be in a sling.....

Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption?
 

So I guess Jeffery Domer should have been just sent to summer school
The man killed innocent animals for sport
I bet you would not like it too much if someone threw you in a pit with a bunch of dogs and let them tare you to shreds would you?
USE YOUR HEAD!!!!
lol
Oh and thanks for making my point for me with that statement
I'm glad you will never be a law maker in any world that I live in

Oh and by the way Ray Lewis and Jamal Lewis deserve to be in jail also, but because enough money was spent it was swept under the table

Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption?
 

He should face the consequences. Yes, everybody does make mistakes and if caught they should also face the consequences. Maybe if society didnt "let people slide so much" they wouldnt do so many bad things.

Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption?
 

I'm in favor of a suspension that occurs for 16 games following his release from jail or following sentencing (if there is no jail time). This would mean he would miss games while in jail and also miss 16 games after jail. That is a good amount of time to view whether he is going to straighten out his act or not.

Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption?
 

.. wonder if the head of the NAACP thinks Don Imus deserves a shot at redemption?
Tell you what would go a very long way to improve racial relations in the US, Mr. head of the NAACP: when people like you stop defending scumbags like Vick just because the are black, or when you stop making stupid statements like "he'd be better off had he killed someone", remember Rae Carruth?.

"Redemption" is not the right word., especially when you are weaseling your way out of more serious federal crimes by admitting to lesser crimes.

And he has no "right" to go back to the NFL. He will have a hard time to go back after his time in jail, especially considering that the NFL is so image-conscious. Someone may give him the chance to come back, but I doubt it.

Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption?
 

I agree the statement by the NAACP and others that Vick wouldn't get this much attention if he had killed a person is just stupid.

This isn't the first stupid thing Mr. White has said. Earlier this month he made a speech about how Vick had not been convicted of a crime but how he has been treated is a crime. Arrest us all, I guess. He SHOULD have said that the way Vick has been treated SHOULD be a crime, but I guess that distinction escapes him.

I agree he doesn't have a right to come back, but I do believe that once he pays his debt to society and a punishment by the NFL, he should be allowed back if anyone will have him.

Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption?
 

Not Just that he Killed the Dogs but How he did it is a disgrace. He deserves to be treated the same way he trated the dogs. Let him fight his way to freedom. We have Human laws for a reason..and cock fighting should be busted too. Making animals fight to the death is stupid and uneccessary.

Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption?
 

Vick didn't make JUST a mistake. His actions were a consistent, well planned, thorough and knowingly illegal. He knew enough about how vilified he would become that he was systematic in his subterfuge of all around him. These crimes weren't accidents, or mistakes, but a long term avocation - what he'd be doing if he weren't in football. These crimes lay bare his true being. This kind of sociopathic behavior is only a small step from practicing his craft on humans.

How can one forgive someone who takes glee from torture and creative killing as a sport? How foolish are we to believe he "rehabilitates" himself?

No second chances on this one. Or for those who want to forgive him, he has to spend his rehab in your home, with your wives and children. Unsupervised.

Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption?
 

Everybody wants to make this into a black and white thing so bad that it has become a black and white thang! But N E Way...

"If" Vick electrocuted dogs...he should be punished (don't know if he did).

"If" Vick Body Slammed dogs...he should be punished (don't know if he did).

Vick participated and gambled on dog fighting...he should and will be punished. And he also should have a chance at redemption.

I have a Jack Russel Terrier named Ali who I love dearly so, Im not into dog fighting. But I don't think it's worst than men who hunt deer. Men who hide in the woods, and shoot deer while they're drinking from a pond...now they as well "should be punished". Thats sick to me too. But thats legal...(I wonder why). It amazes me how we like to try and make one thing seem so much more worse than a simular thing, when they are equally as inhumane. If a man trains his Pit Bull to fight and want to fight against another man's Pit Bull...thats they decision. At least it's a fair fight (unlike the man who shoots the un-armed deer from 20 feet, with a shotgun). It's not my thang, it's a very violent thang, I wouldn't let my dog do that thang...but thats they decision. And that decision to commit that illegal act landed him facing a prison term. But I don't think that "act" is as cruel as some other thangs that society accepts...so YES...He deserves a chance at redemption.

Cause if hunting is a "sport", maybe we should shrug out shoulders and say..."It's just dog fighting"...


Plus. I love when the saints play the falcons with vick in the lineup. makes for some good football.

who dat!!!!!

Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption?
 

The main thing that I don't understand about all this is that dog fighting has been around for a very, very long time, I've never participated in a dog fight, but I've known about dog fighting ever since I was young. When I was a kid growing up in New Orleans playing in the playgrounds all over the city it was a common sight to see a large group of guys at one end of the park placing bets on dogs on big chains fighting, and when one dog got an advantage they would pull the dogs apart. I remember as a youngster being afraid because they didn't have any cages or gates or anything, they just fought them right there in the open. Like I said, this was when I was a kid, and to be honest with you, I never knew it was a federal charge. Thank god as a kid I found something wrong with fighting dogs or I would've been suck into that world also. They say Vick is one of the biggest ring leaders in dog fighting, I kind of find that hard to believe, because there are a lot of people involved in that world probably about 85 to 90 percent of the cities in this country have some type of dog fighting activity in them and it crosses all social, economical and racial landscapes. I mean I'm talking about the late 70's, early to mid 80's and you use to see black guys, white guys, latino guys, you'd see guys in pickup trucks, on bikes, in cars, some regular old cars and then you'd see like Cadillacs, corvettes, jaguars, benz's, hell man I remember seeing this white Bentley that use to be park on the other side of the street from Easton/Comiskey Park(one of the downtown neighborhood parks known for it's dog fighting activities). I remember the cars because it was all me and my friends were interested in at that time, nice cars and there were a lot of them around the parks when they used to fight the dogs. It was a very big deal at those times, and I'm more than sure Vick was exposed to that world when he was a kid and like many before him and many after him was pulled into that world, like I said before, THANK GOD it wasn't something I wanted to get involved with even as a kid. When I talk to a lot of people about the Vick situation, the ones that didn't know about dog fighting found it disgusting and deplorable. And the people who had some knowledge of dog fighting wasn't to surprised at the news. Now what I did find appalling is the way they said they killed the dogs after a dog lost a fight, now if true that's really some sick $$$$. I said if true, because when somebody is offered a federal deal, a lot of things those particular low life's let fly out of they mouths is usually lies and fabrications to make their situations with the feds that much better. Now I'm not condoning anything that he's charged with because like I said that's dementedly sick, but I think if someone is that sick, coldblooded, violent, and heartless to shoot, hang, and drown dogs with no feelings what so ever, is mentally f-up. Don't you think someone that sadistic would have showed some kind of sign, some type of violent behavior, especially playing the most violent sport in the world. Now I'm not saying he did it or he didn't, I don't know the guy personally, but everybody that know him personally and spend time around him said that that don't sound like his personality. I know a lot of people want to see Vick executed for his crime, but some of those things said just don't seem right to me, I definitely know that you can't trust a rat who when involved in a crime everything is all good, but the minute they get busted they'll sell their mother down the river for a sweet deal. The odd thing about Vick case is everybody is on Vick about the dogs except the feds. The feds could care less about the cruelty to animal charges, they got him on gambling, traveling across state lines with dogs to bet and participate in illegal dog fighting activities. Whatever his sentence is he should just do the time for his crime, get his mind together, realize that he blew a once in a life time dream come true life and know that he will never ever achieve that again. I think if he stays healthy, get his mind together, beg for forgiveness, make amends, and do a lot of charity work, then and only then I think he should be allowed to assume his career in the NFL.

Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption?
 

... well, as a kid, you probably saw drugs being dealt as well. and somehow you knew that wasn't "right".

As for hunting, two different things. Personally, I don't know any hunter who doesn't eat what he hunts. And to eat anything, being beef, fish, chicken, pork, venison, or whatever is it that you eat, you first have to kill it, or it will die as you cook it, or at the very least, after you have ingested it. For most people, someone already killed the cow, or pig, or fish, etc., and they buy it all neatly wrapped up at the supermarket.
I mean, I can make fishing sound like a terrible activity too, and say is no better than dog fighting:
"The poor fish is swimming along with her family: her mother, her father, her uncle, her brothers and sisters, her own children, when she is deceived with a shiny lurel by a man who's stalking her from an element above the innocent fish has no concept of. Upon biting on the lure in front of her (it's natural instinct) a sharp, a sharp, cold piece of steal rips right into her flesh." ... I can go on, but you get the idea....

As for Vick being "only 27", well....

As for the case against Vick, I seriously doubt that the case the Feds have against Vick is merely the others ratting on him. Feds don't play that game, because Feds don't like to lose. Without hard, physical evidence, they don't indict. Without hard, physical evidence, a lawyer like Billy Martin doesn't advise his client to take a plea and do some jail time.

As for people making this a "black and white issue", it is always, ALWAYS, the minorities calling out the authorities for persecuting someone because that person is a minortity.

Personally, I don't want Vick begging for forgiveness, and I don't care what charity work he does. He broke the law, he got caught. That's that. After he does the jail time and pays the fine, the market is going to decide whether he's got an NFL career left or not. The NFL is an EXTREMELY image-conscious entertainment corporation, and has clauses on every contract aimed at protecting that image. But like all corporations, it is also EXTREMELY money-conscious, and if people like Lawrence Phillips, or Cecil Collins, or Maurice Clarette, still got opportunities to play in the NFL, if it means making money, I'm sure someone will take Vick back. Heck, I guarantee you, of JeMarcus fails in Oakland, The Raiders would LOVE to have a felon at QB. The Raiders are extremely image-conscious as well.

Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption?
 

Come on :rolleyes:
Now you are trying to confuse the issues :confused:

You are trying to describe the 2 things as if they are one in the same, when in fact one has nothing to do with the other outside of the end result.

Meaning; that the only thing that both of the subjects have in common is that in the end ,an animal is dead and that is the only similarity between the 2.

I’ll try to explain...
It’s like 2 Bata fish in the wild yes they do fight but one has the chance to retreat because the environment offers them the ability to do so. Such is nature’s way. What this means is that although they will have encounters with other fish and fights, they are never to the death and hardly ever result in injury but if you put 2 of them in a bole with no way out then yes one of them will dye.

It’s the same thing with these dogs. In normal situations the initial confrontation between them is simply a threat or a display of aggression.
Why do animals do this?
Well it is widely believed that this is to show to the opposing animal that I am bigger, and I am stronger so the fight never even happens.

Then from time to time you have 2 animals that are both equally large and equally strong, and normally yes a fight does ensue but the fight only last until one animal has shown himself to be the more dominate and the other animal retreats.

In dog fighting there is no place to retreat too and they are being enticed to fight.
In the wild the 2 animals would never find themselves in a pit with no place to escape too.

I’m sorry but your take on hunting and fighting animals is wayyyyyyyy of base

Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption?
 

What Vick "DID" do is in no way, even close to fishing and hunting.

I hunt. I hunt to keep deer from screwing themselves into extinction, and to EAT.

Vick "DID" not kill those dogs to eat. He "DID" it because they could not fight and make him money.

I am beyond sick and tired of the "Black vs White" angle of this crap. A MAN BROKE THE LAW, AND NOW HE WILL BE PUNISHED FOR IT.

The more "race" get's brought up..... the longer racial problems will hurt this Nation.

I now know why "aliens" are all green.

Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption?
 

In Vick's defense
Oh Wait, there is NO defense.

Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption?
 

Being originally from Atlanta it was kind of hard not to notice the scandal surrounding my city's latest favorite son: Michael Vick (tm).

He has been accused of being a part of a dog fighting ring. Now, of course I don't condone the sport - but I also don't condone horse racing - where horses are often run to death and put down if they have an injury. Excuse me, I didn't mean to use children's-speak. The horse is not “put down" it is not “put to sleep" it is executed.

But horse racing is an avocation of the wealthy. If horse racing were a ghetto subculture it would be disdained. But poor people can't afford horses - they can afford dogs.

If they wore suits and had luxury skyboxes it would probably be OK.

I remember a song by a New Orleans songwriter from the 9th ward (my former home and where dog fighting was pretty common.)

The Dog Song
By Mike West

how do you make your dog so strong
find a car tire and tie it on
to his collar, then make him pull it along
that way your dog'll be strong

how do you make your dog want to fight
keep him hungry and keep his chain tight
then let him loose on the levee tonight
wave a bloody rag and he'll fight

how do you make your dog stay dumb
don't let him learn from anyone
don't let him do nothing but bark and run
that way your dog'll stay dumb

Chorus:
i got a good dog
i call him black
he don't let go
when he put on a bite
i lost some money
but i'll get it back
when i lay my bet tonight . . .

1. . how do you make a man like a doghell that's easy as falling off a log

just do what i told you in this song
and any man will be your dog . . .

1. . how do you make your dog so strong
find a car tire, make him pull it along

but be sure and teach him right from wrong
'cause your dog gonna eat you if it gets too strong

©1996 Mike West

I really don't think that NFL officials are appalled at a blood sport (I mean really) Hell how many kids in the NFL came from the University of South Carolina Game Cocks?

But they are appalled at having it revealed that one of thier major product lines --Michael Vick (tm)-- came from a culture that no one really wants to look at.

Its bad for buisness. And the annalogy of how dogs are bred is a little close to home.

Dogs have been bred to fight since before Lassie was a puppie.Then ya think about Abu-Ghraib . Its OK to let dogs terrorize people - just not other dogs.

One of the big ironies of this particularly brutal pastime is there have several federal attempts to regulate and criminalize dogfighting, but the initiatives have been consistently thwarted by pro-life republicans who say that the federal government cannot offer protection to dogs if they don't protect fetuses... really...

Now, I don't know how guilty Michael Vick (tm) is. I guess none of us know till Monday.

I also have no idea how or why wealthy superstars -- who are a few football games out of the ghetto -- spend their money. I could conceive of a scenario where the guy just gave his friends money - I know lots of overly wealthy athletes support a whole slew of people - that they rarely see. The point is: I just don't know.

If I were a betting man: I would take Phido in the 4th - NO. I would say Vick never plays again.

Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption?
 

Vick deserves the bubba justice he's going to get in prison. My biggest problem with the entire situation is that he thought he was going to get away with it and continued to lie to Goddell and the entire world. For that I think he should be banned from any professional sport, PERIOD.

You can't teach an old dog new tricks and in this case it's because their dead. Which is why he shouldn't get any chances, anymore.

His own father said it best. this is him and he needs to own up to who he is"!


A real tough guy.

Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption?
 

Exiled, you must be new to horse racing. I have been involved in racing for only about 40 years and your statement that horses are often run to death just isn't true. You might want to check your sources on that. Yes it is true that some have to be put down due to injury, but believe me it's very few compared to the number that run on any given day. However, in a dog fight, the object of the game is for one to be carted out dead. Now where are these two similar? Anyway, i'm not meaning to jump your case, I just wanted to set the recoed straight on the horse racing thing.

P.S. Oh by the way, you'd be surprised at the number of "poor" people that participate in horse racing. The tracks you see on TV aren't the only ones in the country. Horse racing is open to anyone of any color. We have one of the top trainers in the country(he's black by the way) and I love him dearly. We all started years ago on small Louisiana dirt tracks. You might try it sometime. You might change your mind

Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption?
 

I respect yall boys opinion. But it doesn't change mine. and Tibias...I know plenty of kats who hunt just for the sport of it.

The bottom line is, there is no way to defend or justify Vick's actions. And thats not what i'm doing. I'm just saying that "I" feel that there are plenty of things that are accepted in society that are just as bad or worse than "dog fighting"

So he deserves a shot at "Redemption"...to me.

Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption?
 

You know I might agree with the redemption thing one day but I still have yet to see or hear in Michael Vicks own words, "I did all of those things and I lied to everyone over and over again. I thought I was above the law and that I would never get caught. I am a stupid idiot and I have let everyone down. I don't deserve to play in the NFL and definitely don't deserve any of the money I was paid. I am going to donate all of my earnings over the last 5 years to the SPCA. I will start fresh with no money and earn your respect once again. I am sincerely sorry for what I've done and I swear I will never hurt another animal as long as I am alive. I beg mercy. The mercy I could not give to those dogs I beg of you because it will take me a long time to become human again."

Once he says all that on National TV then maybe, just maybe we can talk.

Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption?
 

[QUOTE=JOESAM2002;136799] Anyway, i'm not meaning to jump your case, I just wanted to set the recoed straight on the horse racing thing.

I don't feel like my case has been jumped. Or that the record is straight. But thanks for your comments.

No, I think all animal sports are gross. But thanks for the offer.

I am sorry that
One: I failed to make my point about class (not race)
and two: I failed to mention that I am a forgiving sort of guy and that even though I dispise Lieing, gambling and dog fighting I would forgive Vick, give him his old job back.

But if I were a betting man he'll never play again.
not because anyone has a particular vendetta against blood sport - but because of public perseption.

none the less - thanks for your time
and ummm... go game cocks.

Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption?
 

This thread started with does Vick deserve a shot at redemption...

Once he does his time, the NFL will need to decide how to punish 2 actions: the crime itself, and the fact he lied to Goddell's face about it, embarrassing the league further.

Everyone deserves a second chance after they have served their punishment.
Obviously, Vick will not see the field this year. I think he'll get a 16 game suspension following his jail term. I say add a $2 million fine. The NFL donates fines to charity, so someone calls the Humane Society with the good news.

Now it is 2009, Vick has just turned 29. If he can still play at an NFL-level, good for him. If not, he can write a book, or get a reality series.

He will go down as the BIGGEST waste of talent ever- not Ricky, Dupree, Jason Williams, David Clyde, anyone

Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption?
 

I don't think Mike ate the dogs after he killed them... hunters typically eat what they kill.

Unless you're a vegetarian (ancient indian word for "bad hunter") what's wrong with hunting?

You go to the store and buy a piece of a cow, pig, or chicken that was farm raised, then killed in a way that was no more, or less, humane than how a deer is killed in the field.

Having animals fight to the death for entertainment indicates a sociopathic mentality.


edit: oops, forgot to answer the original question...
Yes, after he serves his punishment, whatever the courts decide, he should be allowed to play again. If any team will have him.

Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption?
 

If you are convicted of a crime, you're considered by the government to be "reformed" once you've completed your sentence. Webster's defines "reformed" as being "amended by removal of faults, abuses... improved in conduct, morals." However, upon release, options for employment are limited and sparse, and in most cases, need to be setup prior to release. We've all seen the section of the job application that refers to criminal records. Yet, I've never heard any organization trumpeting the cause of these ex-cons....
The way our government works, should Vick be redeemed once he's, "served his debt to society?" Yes, he should...
The way our society works.... no, he won't. :???:

Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption?
 

I think a lot of you guys posting on this particular thread don't know the severity of the situation. Dog fighting is not isolated to the poor black communities, it's happening in almost every State in this country and a lot of countries all over the world. I found a few stories around the Internet to give some of you guys some type of insight on the popularity and interest of the world of dog fighting.

U.S. Dog-Fighting Rings Stealing Pets for "Bait"
U.S. Dog-Fighting Rings Stealing Pets for "Bait"

The reality of dog fighting
Pet Pitbull - Sad Reality article

Humane Society Seizes Nearly Two Dozen Dogs
Unchain Your Dog.org News | Dogs Seized in Montgomery, Alabama Dogfighting Ring

300 Pit Bulls Seized after Fatal Shooting in Liberty County
Unchain Your Dog.org | 300 Pit Bulls Seized in Eleveland Texas; Dogs Chained and Penned

Pit Bull Settles Calmly into New Digs
Unchain Your Dog.org | Wisconsin Man Suspected of Dog Fighting

New Evidence Found In Apparent Dog Fighting Ring
Firefighter Believed To Be Responsible For Gruesome Crime
Unchain Your Dog.org | Indiana Firefighter Accused Dogfighting/ Fighting Pit Bulls

Owner Cruel to the Bone
Unchain Your Dog.org News | Long Island Man Charged with Dog Fighting, Animal Cruelty

Two Men Booked with Dogfighting
UnchainYourDog.org | New Orleans Men Charged with Animal Cruelty, Neglect and Pit Bull Fighting

17 Pit Bulls Seized in Raid; Homeowner Sought
UnchainYourDog.org | Man Wanted on Animal Cruelty Charges

Officials Find 50-75 Pit Bulls
Unchain Your Dog.org | Ohio Officials Find 50-75 Chained Neglected Pit Bulls

SPCA Rescues 30 Abused Dogs
Unchain Your Dog.org News | 30 Pit Bulls Siezed in Texas Dog Fighting Investigation

This is just a few articles from around the net just to show how deep this form of animal cruelty runs. I could have went on and on and on, but I think you guys can kind of get it, it's not right but it's as common as horse racing where all types of people are involved in it from all walks of life. Some of you guys say it not a racial thing and to a point it's not, but the media focus seems to gravitate to that general area, calling it a subcultural activity and focusing majority of their coverage on black athletes and poor black communities. These dog fighting activities occur in a lot of different communities, mainly but not exclusively in poor and rural areas. What we as a public, the media and all concerned have to realize is it's really not a racial or economical thing, but a cruelty thing. It's very funny to me that all these people are so appalled by what Vick is accused of but won't do anything thing about it but talk. I say if you're that disturb over all this than do something about it, because once the next big thing happen to capture your attention, the media will forget all about it and so will you, that's the real shame of it all, right now it's the big story and soon it will not be. And the dogs will still be fighting and dying and the people still betting, and the media is just going to move on and cover the next flavor of the month.

Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption?
 

Reformed? I call bullst. Redeemed? That's crap. It's take a sick mother &^*%er to do what he did to those animals, and 18 months in the clink isn't going to reform Vick's sorry tail. People that do things like that to animals are seriously twisted. Seriously.

He's 'redeemed' when he stands in a 10x10 cell WITH those dogs he trained to execute (one way or the other) with a t-bone wrapped around his worthless neck. If he can come out of that room in one hour and still manage to live, then I say let him play football again.

I cannot imagine how anyone could possibly defend that piece of crap...I simply cannot imagine it. Sick sick sick sick sick. Mean. Evil. Twisted. Warped. This is the kind of stuff child molesters and serial killers are made of. What in God's name are people thinking?

Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption?
 

Never said I agree with what he did. The only thing that he could have done that would have tugged harder at my heartstrings would be if he armed children and had them square off against one another. But I'm pro-U.S.A. You can do whatever you want to Vick, but I'm not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America.

Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption?
 

Ehh f**k it...Just shoot him.

Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption?
 

I'm not sure he can be reformed. It's not like he didn't know that what he was doing was wrong and against the law to start with. These kind of people have serious problems if you ask me. I really don't think you can compare this kind of behavior to any thing else. This is just plain sick. I don't care if you're black, white,yellow or what sick is sick. This obviously affects everyone involved with it. How can we as civilized people condone this? If we do......then how civilized are we. Maybe we need to look deep within ourselves. Anybody that condones this absolutely scares the devil out of me. I'm just glad you don't know where I live. I don't want to be found dead in my home just because someone dicided to play a game and go out and just kill someone. That's about as close to dog fighting as I can compare. Sick,just plain sick. Or maybe we could all get together and go out and do some drive by shootings? Sound about right? See how sick does this sound. Think about it. This is what's wrong with our country today. We let people get away with to much.

Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption?
 

Don't mistake what I am saying, Joe. If he is guilty, I hope he is persecuted to the furthest extent of the law. If what I heard was correct, the state mandate is 5 years for every dog, which equates to 40+ years, in additional to the federal charges. Yes, do it, lock him up. But I can't sit here and say that the man cannot earn a living, whether it be 5 years from now, or 40.

Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption?
 

Me either. I hear by then MickyD's will still need fry cooks and cleanup men. He should fit right in. Embarrassment is a great form of punishment. Make that goofy bastard do some meanial work. Let him work a garbage truck, I know a guy here that will hire him and pay him top dollar. Minimun wage is great ain't it?

Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption?
 

I just dont get it..Redemption? He should be banned for life..Playing in the NFL is an HONOR for select few. He had his moment and simply thought he was above the league and society. This has nothing to do with race, or gender..Let me explain something that some of you fail to realize..CODE OF CONDUCT.
I work in the oil industry for an international company which is well known. My actions when Im off of work..still reflect my actions as if im representing my company!
I tell my kids this..Everything that dad does is a reflection of my two sons. I tell them everything they do in their actions, words of hate or kindness is a direct reflection of me!
You lead by example..That is why we have some people in our society called law abided citizens and those who go to jail or simply stay in jail.
WE ALL HAVE CHOICES and DECISIONS IN LIFE..The difference is the choices we make are the result of those decisions we choose to make.
I earn about 75k a year. I am fortunate enough to not have a college degree and earn that type of living. I treat my current situation with respect and honor.
I would live like a saint if I knew I was making 130 million and I was in the public eye representing a hugh corporation which is paying my salary, Not to mention the other contract of obligations and considered by young kids as a role model. VICK DESERVES EVERYTHING HES GETTTING> He simply didnt account for the result of his decisions when The choice was made to conduct himself or involve himself in some cruel spectacle to which he thinks is a sport! So please, dont try and butter the seriousness of his actions! The sad part is..He let down all the people who thought highly of him as a role model and sports figure to be entertained with forcing dogs to fight till their death.

Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption?
 

... I'll take your word for it, but personally, of all the people who I know who hunt, and I know a lot, they all eat what they kill.

Butv don't get confused, it is not just the "dog fighting" and cruelty to animals that has him in the situation that he's in with the Feds. It is that he ran and financed an interstate enterprise that sponsored illegal activies, including dog fighting, illegal gambling (which just about automatically includes tax evasion) , and drugs - lest we forget, the original raid to his house was on a drug warrant. Once he engaged similar enterprises ,as in pitting his dogs against other kennels' dogs and betting on them, then he became a racketeer.

So let's put dog fighting and cruelty to animals aside, because they actually mud the real issues the Feds are looking at. What we have is, at the very least:

Sponsoring illegal gambling
Sponsoring drug trade
Tax evasion
Racketeering

And those are the issues the Feds, as well as the NFL, care about. And that's why Vick is trying to plead to lesser charges that concern just dog fighting, so he doesn't have to face the music on any of the above.

So you can argue about some things being "worse" than dog fighting that are accepted in our society, but again, is not the meat of the issue with Vick.

Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption?
 

Easy Joe. You don't want to be accused of Bad-Mouthing the United States of America. :)

Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption?
 

LOL,I'm stuck in "Animal House." I can see it now. Oh my God, I'm bad mouthing the United States of America, where's my legal representative?(Tim Mathison).

Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption?
 

I pledge allegiance, to the flag, of the United States of Whatever...
and to the rehab, for which it stands,
One nation, with no morality or accountability,
with Liberty and a broken moral compass for all...

"cause this is MY UNITED STATES OF WHATEVER!"

"As a society, we should aid in his rehabilitation and welcome a new Michael Vick back into the community without a permanent loss of his career in football," said R.L. White, president of the NAACP's Atlanta Chapter.

Say what? Tell me, how does one aid in the rehab of a man who killed domestic animals for fun? Are you effin serious? Please, someone help me get wrapped around how 18 months in prison rehabs this behavior or how a person might otherwise be 'corrected'.

As a dog owner -- and my dog lives a great life -- someone look me in the eye and tell me how a person who can fill up a 5 gallon bucket with water and with both hands hold a dogs head under that water until it's dead be fixed by spending 18 months in jail or donating heavily to PETA or whatever. This kinda of activity is pure evil man...just plain 'ol evil.

And I agree playing in the NFL is an honer...sure as hell isn't a 'right', and I'm sure as hell not bad-mouthing the United States by saying so. Where's the logic in that statement? Perhaps this is just random babble? Gotta be...

...Cause this is MY UNITED STATES OF WHATEVER!

Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption?
 

Con'Vick' made one mistake he got caught. If we are to forgive him and allow him to continue on with his life after time served for this one mistake I say by all means.
But what about the mistake he made when these dogs were breed to kill other dogs or to be mauled to death by other dogs. And what about the dogs that were 2nd or 3rd string material that were hung, drowned, or beat on the ground till they died. I don't think he will make up for that mistake and be allowed to continue his life with the greatest job in America.
What about the mistake he made when he financed this kennel operation which would lead you to assume none of this would have happened if he did not have all that Nike money layin around. Sure the best way to pay for that mistake is to ensure he gets another $130 mill by playin in the NFL.
Vick didn't profit from gamblin on these dogs he just supplied the money for these bets. Sure he got tired of havin to supply his boyz with some runnin around money. Maybe he should have started a business for them or had one of his investors lay out a nice portfolio. The quickest way to have money seems to be get a job. I have a job and I don't support 20 of my buddies from 1st grade. I think this problem for Vick will be solved he won't have to support all his buddies.
I think there are alot of jobs that require a clean past, not gettin locked up, not harmin the image of your employer and I'm happy that the NFL is one of those companies. I think the media is to blame because they do beat a dead horse but I dont think that is goin to change. I dont want my 3 yr old watchin highlights of a dog fightin ring when Vick gets out of jail and is lookin for a new team. It doesnt seem like a tough choice act normal or find a new job every player has an option.

Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption?
 

Uh Oh. Yet another basher of the United States.

/sarcasm off

Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption?
 

Him torturing animals speaks to a larger issue. he has something extremely wrong with him. Also lets not cloud this, jail is not to reform someone. it is to pay for your crime. it is not and never will be to reform someone.

Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption?
 

Torturing and killing animals are the typical hallmark of a serial killer in training. Personally, I just think that Vick is a disturbed individual who isn't bright enough to understand the import of his actions. I don't think he can be rehabilitated and I don't think he deserves to play in the NFL ever again. It's a privilege and not a right. I hate this sense of entitlement people have nowadays.