It's Very Simple...Deuce
 

We have played the same game since Chicago last year. Payton's pride is hurting us. We beat Philly by running Deuce. We lost to Chicago because we didn't run Deuce. We lost to the Colts because we didn't run Deuce. We lost to Tampa because we didn't run Deuce.

We're probably going to get spanked bad by the Titans because they actually run the football. We have one of the greatest backs in the game and since our coach is a "passing" coach his pride is making him force passing when all we need to do is run Deuce...not Reggie. running is a simpel way to build momentum. O lines can run block easier than pass block. We have Karney. There's no mystery to be solved.

It's not complicated. We don't suck. If we run Deuce a lot we will win a lot. If we don't we will relive the Chicago game all season and amount to nothing.

Why do we do everything except run Deuce up the gut?

Re: It's Very Simple...Deuce
 

I couldn't agree more. It's also nice to read a message which states fact and not someone who is doing nothing more than throwing their hands up ready to give up.

While the first two games have ended in frustration, if you're a fan then you're a fan!!!!

Re: It's Very Simple...Deuce
 

Peyton seems to have a one track mind it's on the wrong track. In 4 of the 6 losses last year, Brees threw for +-400 yards and we still lost. Where Duece gets 100 we win. Why can't they see that? I know that their statistician has those details. Duece and Karney are both at 4-5 yards per carry. Stop the dinkiin-dunkin and dancin and let's start busting some people in the mouth.

Re: It's Very Simple...Deuce
 

Kenny Chesney likes passes.

Re: It's Very Simple...Deuce
 

Papa, Deuce got 10 carries in the first half. The Saints didn't score and Tampa went up 21.

You could make the Deuce argument last game, but not in this game.

Re: It's Very Simple...Deuce
 

Agreed WhoDat... we gave our backs plenty of chances in the first half. The game just got out of reach.

Re: It's Very Simple...Deuce
 

So much for that theory

Re: It's Very Simple...Deuce
 

Give the ball to to DUCE, just plain and simple. play Reggie as a decoy

Re: It's Very Simple...Deuce
 

The decoy bit does not this year. no one is scared of him like last year. He gets shadowed like any other player but he is not freezing the defenses any more

Re: It's Very Simple...Deuce
 

Deuce got plenty of touches - that wasn't the problem. IMHO, We (ie. Payton and Brees) are focusing too much on outlet routes and the short passing game. Look at the stats. 16 pass attempts by Garcia for 243 yards versus 44 pass attempts by Brees for 266 yards.

We are not sending enough receivers down the field - Colston and Eric Johnson keep running 4 yard curl routes. Reggie keeps running that outlet valve route to the outside. This plays right into the hands of the cover 2 D. We need some seam routes and deep post and slant routes, and obviously, more go routes.

At the current rate, I'd get rid of a lot of these short patterns. Trust Drew to make the 10+ yard throws and get rid of the ball if the pass is not there to avoid the sack. Leave Karney or an extra TE in to block if necessary. Drew is a good decision maker and we need to play to his strengths. But we need more than 3 yard completions to show for it.

If we want to get cute w/ short passes, don't do it when there is 60-80+ yards of field in front of us. Make the defense honor the deep ball until the field is shortened. Stretch the D w/ the pass, then let Reggie and Deuce do their thing.

Re: It's Very Simple...Deuce
 

To paraphrase Yoda: 3.0 YPC does not a decoy make.

Re: It's Very Simple...Deuce
 

The thing we are forgetting is the poor overall play of the OFFENSIVE line. Drew has been pressured into dumping instead of stepping into his passes. He has lost confindence in his deep threat (DH), and now his horses are dropping the ball during running plays. I do think more Deuce will help keep pressure off of him (if the score isn't 21-0) by that time.

Re: It's Very Simple...Deuce
 

Thank You WhoDat. I'm tired of all these Katz thinking that the only answer is..."RUN DEUCE". Deuce ran pretty good early, and his fumble started the momentum for Tampa. We do need to run, but more importantly we need better and smarter play from (like HAGAN has been saying) the OL and DL. And we need Sean Payton to call ONE GOOD GAME!

I still think we're fine. One game down in the division aint bad. Not Superbowl contenders yet, because The Might Pats look Awesome...But we can get there...

Re: It's Very Simple...Deuce
 

Throw in the fact, no pun intended, that Brees is off in his throwing and decision making and it's all the more reason to load up with the run.

Re: It's Very Simple...Deuce
 

That's exactly my point. Deuce is a hammer back. He is supposed to pound opposing defenses and set up play action. With a pounding RB the D gets worn down and huge offensive plays open up from the running game. Running is also easier than throwing and can help a struggling team get in rthythm.

Being down by 3 TDs is not a reason to abandon the run in the second half. You come out pounding and get some points and momentum. Then work from there. It also keeps opposing defenses off the field, even when you are down so they can't score as often. If they can score 3 TDs in the first half and there is the same amount of time in the second half as the first, then we can score three without having to get desparate and pass happy.

We need to run Deuce...the whole game...a lot. Our game plan for Chicago was pathetic and we've been stuck on the same thing ever since.

At the beginning of last year we ran Deuce in our first two games more than 10 times, even when Karney went out and we won. It's not a mystery.

Re: It's Very Simple...Deuce
 

While I agree that we got away from Deuce running the ball early. The Saints didn't protect the ball(3 fumbles in the 1st 3 series) 2 recovered by the Saints and one by the Bucs. The one thing that stood out was how hard the hits by the Bucs were and and how they attacked the ball.

Re: It's Very Simple...Deuce
 

We also need a new kicker. We hated him in Miami....of all the moves we made this off-season.....this was the one that REALLY made me KRINGE!!!

Re: It's Very Simple...Deuce
 

First off, the Saints had 1 drive in the 3rd before it was 28-0, and they looked like they might actually move the ball, personal foul penalty, interception, ball game.

Second - and I may not have seen this correctly - Deuce was sidelined with the eye thing in the second half.

Re: It's Very Simple...Deuce
 

Actually, Deuce only ran the ball 10 times (again) and his average yards per run was 4.9 yards. So in theory, give it to him on 1st and 2nd down and you'll have less than a yard to go on 3rd down. This is, by the way, an example not a game plan.

Re: It's Very Simple...Deuce
 

More factors to our losses than simply a lack of running behind the plow horse. We have coughed up huge turnovers for points, been burned at will with big plays in the passing game, cannot seem to generate a decent pass rush, cannot pass block effectively, receivers are not getting seperation on mid to deep routes, etc. It's an overall lack of execution on the players part that is throwing a wrench in the initial game plan.

Only one person has impressed me in these 2 games and unfortunately it's the punter Weatherford. He's been sharp.

Re: It's Very Simple...Deuce
 

You've got it backwards neugey - Our run will set up the pass! Make defenses have to load the box to stop the 4-5 yard pops, then everything works. The pass rush has to pause on the play action...they are on their heals anyway if we are running effectively...Brees can plant his feet and throw...wide outs will get more man coverage. With Duece and Karney the blocks don't even have to be good blocks - just stand the defender up - arm tackles won't work. Cadillac had 24 carries for 61 yards yesterday. If Duece got 24 carries he would have had 117(4.9 per). I will keep saying/writing it until Sean proves to me that it won't work. The NUMBERS have shown ....................and will show.............that it works!

Re: It's Very Simple...Deuce
 

This is so true, but until Peyton and Co realize Bush is not the featured back than this will NOT happen

Re: It's Very Simple...Deuce
 

Doesn't matter if we score 40 points a game... if our opponets are allowed to score 41... we lose. Its basic math. Our D can't stop my grandmother. That puts to much pressure on our O and we can't do the things we need to do on O if our D is so horrific.

Re: It's Very Simple...Deuce
 

I laugh when I see the stats that say when so-and-so gets over 100 yards/30 carries, Team X wins every time. Anyone stop to think the team was running to protect a lead? Running doesn't cause winning, winning causes running. Sure it's great if you can come out and pound the ball on the ground, but in the NFL that's pretty hard to do. Sometimes you have to pass to set up the run. That's why coaches have game plans instead of just saying, "today we will run the ball and stop the run."

Re: It's Very Simple...Deuce
 

yeah stopping the run and running the ball do seem like good places to start. that is how most teams win. kinda like indy in the playoffs last year. maybe i am wrong. no no that is a good place to start for any team. those two things seem to be gained by your offensive and defensive lines dominating the game. yes that is where games are won and loss, the trenches.

our problems seem to be poor o-line play, rec. not open or not catching the ball, fumbles, oh and that thing- the long ball which we can not stop. right now we stink. i for one am upset at this team. i am so tired of them saying we will get this fixed. well then get it fixed already cause watching you is making me frikan sick

they are laying down out there and it is drivign me crazy. if your goign to lose play hard please. i can except that. come out like this each week makes me sick

Re: It's Very Simple...Deuce
 

Dude I think you are the smartest man to be on this forum today aside from myself of course. I have been preaching forever now... you can't run the ball if you are getting your butt handed to you.

Re: It's Very Simple...Deuce
 

Like I said yesterday......you pass to get the lead, you run to keep it.

This works if you have a defense.

Re: It's Very Simple...Deuce
 

You Pass to Score...You run to Win ;)

Re: It's Very Simple...Deuce
 

if they would run deuce more than they run reggie than we would win more..... because reggie almost as many yards,as he gains and he has a big problem holdin on to the ball......... and duece never fumbles....... but everyone including the coaches are stuck so far up reggies but thats all they want is reggie........ but if you really look at it in the games were duece get a fair share of touches thats the games that the saints when...... because the d-fence can stop reggie and cover wide outs...... but if you give them a steady dose of #26 then thorw it to the wide outs or to reggie.... then you will get some where..... the saint have got to pound it and pound then to do the big plays.......

Re: It's Very Simple...Deuce
 

I guess only a few of us understand the fact that if your defense CAN NOT STOP THE OTHER TEAM FROM SCORING...........running the ball does not help you win. It runs time off the clock.

Re: It's Very Simple...Deuce
 

Some of us understand that if your defense stinks you run the ball so they are on the field less as well as the opposing team's offense. That allows for a close game decided at the end of the 4th quarter.

Re: It's Very Simple...Deuce
 

WHAT?????

And what do you think we will win with in this magical "4th quarter Close game"? Mare? Come on Voodoo, you know better than that. You can't really believe what you are typing.

I think we started running Deuce and he fumbled. That equaled a TB TD. Next poss was a punt for us, running both he and Reggie.

Right now the whole system is broke.

Re: It's Very Simple...Deuce
 

Yes, Payton did try running Deuce and he fumbled. The Reggie runs need to go to Deuce, most of them anyway. If the O is playing bad, throwing the ball isn't going to work. There's enough time to score 3 TDs in the second half by running Deuce. I would rather us be close in the 4th and have to rely on passing with a minute to go or Mare than have a 72 to 24 point diffrential in 2games. We were down 21-0 at the half and we still had time to pound Deuce in spite of his fumble(s) and get a TD and momentum. The offense needs that really bad.

Reggie needs to run sparingly and Deuce needs to run a lot...not the other way around. Reggie is a lot better catching the ball. And with his pitter-patter dancing right now he doesn't deserve the ball at all.

Deuce needs at least 20 carries a game. Henderson needs to be the 3rd or 4th WR. Patten should be at the #2 WR spot. Lance Moore should be our main #3 with Copper and Henderson rotating in. Reggie needs to cut and go..even if it's for 2 yards.

On D we need KK in for Bullocks because he's at least visible and can pick the ball. Bellamy needs to be in on short yardage plays with Harper. Usama needs to start with MM. And Simmons needs to start at MLB, not play ST's. Put Simoneau in on ST's.

Our receivers are not lined up on the depth chart right and we're not putting our hammers (Bellamy and Simmons) in on running plays.

At least the losses would make everyone less frustrated if we made good coaching moves with teh personnel.

Re: It's Very Simple...Deuce
 

I gottcha brother, I'm with ya. However, I still don't trust Mare on a 10 yard game winner. Hope he proves me wrong in the long run.

Re: It's Very Simple...Deuce
 

right you can not run the ball when your down by 21. so true. so lets stop the non-sense

btw if you can run the ball you are controlling the line of scrimmage. it makes everything else easier.

Re: It's Very Simple...Deuce
 

We rode Duece all the way to the NFC Championship game last year...then jumped on the Drew train and the load was too heavy. The stats for the first two losses of this year mimic the stats for the NFC Champ loss to Chicago. The very next game (the SuperBowl) the Colts...the COLTS ... RAN ... for nearly 200 yards against the Bears. We have been stuck in a funk since a decision was made to try to run off of the pass - rather than passing off of the run. We can't exclusively pass or run the ball...there has to be an EFFECTIVE mix to make it all jel. Until now, there has been a heavy tilt to the passing side. When the Saints find a better balance of run and pass, with the bulk of the run load on Duece/Karney our troubles will continue.

Re: It's Very Simple...Deuce
 

good point but you can't pass the ball unless you suck the defensive backs in with the run so in reality you have to have a balance of both

personally I say even if you have to punt you stick with the run game over and over until you see the D backs start to play up then you start to establish the pass simply because once you show them that you are not going to abandon the run game then they have to commit to stopping it

that's one of the things the colts did to us
play after play they ran Joseph Addai and then when we started to play up it was Marvin Harrison going deep

Re: It's Very Simple...Deuce
 

..::after giving this a 2nd thought I take that back because we can't establish the run unless we play better on the front line so at this point I'm really not sure what they are going to do::..

Re: It's Very Simple...Deuce
 

dar and deadman good points. absolutely you have to have a balance. no doubt. also deadman agree with you on sucking people in which is why i said the ability to run the ball makes everything else easier. if you are able to run the ball effectively you are controlling the line of scrimmage.

Re: It's Very Simple...Deuce
 

I think you're right, we should run Deuce more. But, I don't completely agree with you saying not running Reggie, we got him 1st round, 2nd pick..now were not going to even use him? We still need to run Reggie...