Happier, but still not happy

xan · 11-05-2007, 10:35 AM

While I'm encouraged by this team's performance against a clearly powerful Jax team, there are some caveats to be taken from this game:

1) Another win against a team that is injured and confused. Without their starting QB, without their starting RT, without their big middle DT, their best starting CB injured and the distraction of two members arrested and suspended for the game, the Jags were not the same team as even last week, much less the 1st half the season.

2) Yet another no name desperation fill-in QB has a career day against the secondary, including 13 passes over 10 yards and 5 passes over 20 yards, including 80 and 56 yarders. He made a few rookie mistakes and a few bad luck plays (McKenzie's INT), but he played remarkably well.

3) Special teams has lots of problems. Missed FGs, poor KO coverage, lower than average returns of punts and KO's.

4) Poor play mix. 49 pass, 25 run is historically a poor mix and is not a long term successful strategy. The run is used simply to give the O-line's shin muscles a break from running backwards into pass protection.

5) There is no reliable running game and no real running attack inside the tackles. Jax did not pressure Brees like the Colts, Tenn, TB or Carolina, forcing some runs. Unable to compete on the edges and without the ability to open holes, a quality coaching staff with reasonably healthy players has exposed this persistant weakness.

6) The Rams are the only mortal lock left on the schedule, if there was one this season, but given this teams epic struggle against teams who are the most dismal in NFL history, next week is not a trivial enterprise.

7) Each team left on the schedule has a lot of pride and all but one are still in the playoff hunt. Three consecutive divisional games, 2 on the road, are still the pivotal points in the season, and there's only two weeks to come up with working solutions before these teams, who've seen us already, hit us with their version of why we're not as good as we'd like to be.

8) If we don't win the division, we won't be playing in January. GB and Detroit have cake schedules and probably won't finish less than 11-5. Dallas and NY are in stride and also are likely to finish 11-5. We're already at 4 losses, so one more and we're done for a wild card.

I'm not negative, just realistic.

andersen · 11-05-2007, 10:39 AM

All true....but we do have the swagger back !

Tobias-Reiper · 11-05-2007, 12:54 PM

How I wish all of you who want to rain on other people's parade would at least have the decency to

a.- get their facts straight
b.- keep the adjectives to a minimum

1.- The Jaguars are NOT a "confused" team. They are a hardnosed, well coached team. You have to be a well coached team to be 5-2 in the AFC.
And who is this "big middle DT" that did not play? Stroud? Henderson? THEY BOTH PLAYED!
And what team is not injured at this point in the season? How about the Saints playing without their starting center, or without Deuce, or a hobbled Charles Grant, or without their SP star (Gleason)? What, those don't count?

2.- So a QB whose name is not on ESPN 24x7 threw for 340-some yards. Ok.
I don't know, maybe is me, or maybe it is that the defensive game plan was to commit to stop the Jags' bread and butter, the run, with those 2 no-names, who are they? ah, Fred Taylor and Maurice Jones-Drew, who combined for 84 yards rushing.
The McKenzie INT wasn't a "rookie mistake" or "bad luck"; it came about because of the pressure the d-line was putting on the QB when he threw the ball.

3.- Sure Mare stinks at FGs. And the Saints are missing Gleason in coverage. And you forgot to add jason David here...

4.- Here you contradict yourself. In point 1, you said the Jaguars were missing their starting CB. Wouldn't it follow that a good coach would try to exploit that? i.e., throw the ball? And since when any mix of plays is 'historically good" or "historically bad"? You probably should tell that to the Patriots. Maybe Bellichick will see the error in his ways and start running the ball more. I tell you what's historically bad: trying to stick with a game plan no matter what and not taking what the defense gives you. Also historically bad, not scoring more points than the other team.
Not to mention that many of these passes as swing/screen passes to Reggie, which takes me to...

5.- Reggie ran 17 times for 72 yards. For those who like stats, thats 4.2 a carry. He also caught 7 balls for 43 yards. How many of those balls were caught pass the LOS? 1? 2? And of those balls that he caught past the LOS, how far? 1 yard past the LOS? 2? 5? Most of the "passes" that go to Reggie are behind the LOS, and account to no more than a long hand off.

6.- There are no mortal locks in the NFL.

7,- What's this? It's the NFL. Anyone can beat anyone any given Sunday.

8 .- Not necessarily true. Just as the Giants have won 6 straight, they can lose 6 straight (did it last year). You may think that the Lions are going 14-2, the Packers 15-1, etc... but there's plenty of season still. Let's just see how it goes.

You are not negative, you just like to poop the party and are misinformed.

JOESAM2002 · 11-05-2007, 01:01 PM

Xan, I see where you're coming from but, this team has come a long way in the last few weeks.They're at least playing with heart now. We, as fans, owe them at the very least that recognition. Maybe they're not the Super Bowl Champions just yet, but at least they have the look of a team that COULD be. Let's give this bunch credit where credit is due. Hell,i'm proud of the way they've played the last few weeks. When was the last time you can rememebr watching the Saints and not really worry about the other team coming back and beating them on stupid plays?

Anyway, realistic is good, I just hope you don't turn into another Euph!

WhoDat205 · 11-05-2007, 01:20 PM

I think Xan makes one very valid point. The team is improving, but still has a long way to go.

JOESAM2002 · 11-05-2007, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by WhoDat205

I think Xan makes one very valid point. The team is improving, but still has a long way to go.

That's true. He's right,we do have a way to go but at least they're on the way up instead of down.

Budsdrinker · 11-05-2007, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper

How I wish all of you who want to rain on other people's parade would at least have the decency to

a.- get their facts straight
b.- keep the adjectives to a minimum

1.- The Jaguars are NOT a "confused" team. They are a hardnosed, well coached team. You have to be a well coached team to be 5-2 in the AFC.
And who is this "big middle DT" that did not play? Stroud? Henderson? THEY BOTH PLAYED!
And what team is not injured at this point in the season? How about the Saints playing without their starting center, or without Deuce, or a hobbled Charles Grant, or without their SP star (Gleason)? What, those don't count?

2.- So a QB whose name is not on ESPN 24x7 threw for 340-some yards. Ok.
I don't know, maybe is me, or maybe it is that the defensive game plan was to commit to stop the Jags' bread and butter, the run, with those 2 no-names, who are they? ah, Fred Taylor and Maurice Jones-Drew, who combined for 84 yards rushing.
The McKenzie INT wasn't a "rookie mistake" or "bad luck"; it came about because of the pressure the d-line was putting on the QB when he threw the ball.

3.- Sure Mare stinks at FGs. And the Saints are missing Gleason in coverage. And you forgot to add jason David here...

4.- Here you contradict yourself. In point 1, you said the Jaguars were missing their starting CB. Wouldn't it follow that a good coach would try to exploit that? i.e., throw the ball? And since when any mix of plays is 'historically good" or "historically bad"? You probably should tell that to the Patriots. Maybe Bellichick will see the error in his ways and start running the ball more. I tell you what's historically bad: trying to stick with a game plan no matter what and not taking what the defense gives you. Also historically bad, not scoring more points than the other team.
Not to mention that many of these passes as swing/screen passes to Reggie, which takes me to...

5.- Reggie ran 17 times for 72 yards. For those who like stats, thats 4.2 a carry. He also caught 7 balls for 43 yards. How many of those balls were caught pass the LOS? 1? 2? And of those balls that he caught past the LOS, how far? 1 yard past the LOS? 2? 5? Most of the "passes" that go to Reggie are behind the LOS, and account to no more than a long hand off.

6.- There are no mortal locks in the NFL.

7,- What's this? It's the NFL. Anyone can beat anyone any given Sunday.

8 .- Not necessarily true. Just as the Giants have won 6 straight, they can lose 6 straight (did it last year). You may think that the Lions are going 14-2, the Packers 15-1, etc... but there's plenty of season still. Let's just see how it goes.

You are not negative, you just like to poop the party and are misinformed.

Very well said!!!!!!!!!!

Saintsfan4ever · 11-05-2007, 01:53 PM

yeah yeah all that adversity other teams are having that we've exploited .... hold on while I get a tissue ... sniff sniff , ok better.

Meanwhile,we lost Deuce and our power running game... but have adapted and won 4 in a row.... oh but wait I forgot, we won those because the other team got confused.

frankeefrank · 11-05-2007, 05:26 PM

Last time I checked... The other guys get paid too...
They are NFL teams. So, a win is a win.

But, the pass defense "scheme" worries me some...

papz · 11-05-2007, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by Saintsfan4ever

yeah yeah all that adversity other teams are having that we've exploited .... hold on while I get a tissue ... sniff sniff , ok better.

Meanwhile,we lost Deuce and our power running game... but have adapted and won 4 in a row.... oh but wait I forgot, we won those because the other team got confused.

Originally Posted by frankeefrank

Last time I checked... The other guys get paid too...
They are NFL teams. So, a win is a win.

But, the pass defense "scheme" worries me some...

Thank you. We win and still get discredited. Geezums.

11-05-2007, 10:35 AM	#1
xan Professor Crab and Site Donor 2014 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Princeton Posts: 3,371 Blog Entries: 34	Happier, but still not happy While I'm encouraged by this team's performance against a clearly powerful Jax team, there are some caveats to be taken from this game: 1) Another win against a team that is injured and confused. Without their starting QB, without their starting RT, without their big middle DT, their best starting CB injured and the distraction of two members arrested and suspended for the game, the Jags were not the same team as even last week, much less the 1st half the season. 2) Yet another no name desperation fill-in QB has a career day against the secondary, including 13 passes over 10 yards and 5 passes over 20 yards, including 80 and 56 yarders. He made a few rookie mistakes and a few bad luck plays (McKenzie's INT), but he played remarkably well. 3) Special teams has lots of problems. Missed FGs, poor KO coverage, lower than average returns of punts and KO's. 4) Poor play mix. 49 pass, 25 run is historically a poor mix and is not a long term successful strategy. The run is used simply to give the O-line's shin muscles a break from running backwards into pass protection. 5) There is no reliable running game and no real running attack inside the tackles. Jax did not pressure Brees like the Colts, Tenn, TB or Carolina, forcing some runs. Unable to compete on the edges and without the ability to open holes, a quality coaching staff with reasonably healthy players has exposed this persistant weakness. 6) The Rams are the only mortal lock left on the schedule, if there was one this season, but given this teams epic struggle against teams who are the most dismal in NFL history, next week is not a trivial enterprise. 7) Each team left on the schedule has a lot of pride and all but one are still in the playoff hunt. Three consecutive divisional games, 2 on the road, are still the pivotal points in the season, and there's only two weeks to come up with working solutions before these teams, who've seen us already, hit us with their version of why we're not as good as we'd like to be. 8) If we don't win the division, we won't be playing in January. GB and Detroit have cake schedules and probably won't finish less than 11-5. Dallas and NY are in stride and also are likely to finish 11-5. We're already at 4 losses, so one more and we're done for a wild card. I'm not negative, just realistic.
	Calvin: "I wish I was a Tiger." Hobbes: "Common lament."

11-05-2007, 10:39 AM	#2
andersen With an "E" Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Madisonville, LA Posts: 429	Re: Happier, but still not happy All true....but we do have the swagger back !

11-05-2007, 12:54 PM	#3
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Re: Happier, but still not happy How I wish all of you who want to rain on other people's parade would at least have the decency to a.- get their facts straight b.- keep the adjectives to a minimum 1.- The Jaguars are NOT a "confused" team. They are a hardnosed, well coached team. You have to be a well coached team to be 5-2 in the AFC. And who is this "big middle DT" that did not play? Stroud? Henderson? THEY BOTH PLAYED! And what team is not injured at this point in the season? How about the Saints playing without their starting center, or without Deuce, or a hobbled Charles Grant, or without their SP star (Gleason)? What, those don't count? 2.- So a QB whose name is not on ESPN 24x7 threw for 340-some yards. Ok. I don't know, maybe is me, or maybe it is that the defensive game plan was to commit to stop the Jags' bread and butter, the run, with those 2 no-names, who are they? ah, Fred Taylor and Maurice Jones-Drew, who combined for 84 yards rushing. The McKenzie INT wasn't a "rookie mistake" or "bad luck"; it came about because of the pressure the d-line was putting on the QB when he threw the ball. 3.- Sure Mare stinks at FGs. And the Saints are missing Gleason in coverage. And you forgot to add jason David here... 4.- Here you contradict yourself. In point 1, you said the Jaguars were missing their starting CB. Wouldn't it follow that a good coach would try to exploit that? i.e., throw the ball? And since when any mix of plays is 'historically good" or "historically bad"? You probably should tell that to the Patriots. Maybe Bellichick will see the error in his ways and start running the ball more. I tell you what's historically bad: trying to stick with a game plan no matter what and not taking what the defense gives you. Also historically bad, not scoring more points than the other team. Not to mention that many of these passes as swing/screen passes to Reggie, which takes me to... 5.- Reggie ran 17 times for 72 yards. For those who like stats, thats 4.2 a carry. He also caught 7 balls for 43 yards. How many of those balls were caught pass the LOS? 1? 2? And of those balls that he caught past the LOS, how far? 1 yard past the LOS? 2? 5? Most of the "passes" that go to Reggie are behind the LOS, and account to no more than a long hand off. 6.- There are no mortal locks in the NFL. 7,- What's this? It's the NFL. Anyone can beat anyone any given Sunday. 8 .- Not necessarily true. Just as the Giants have won 6 straight, they can lose 6 straight (did it last year). You may think that the Lions are going 14-2, the Packers 15-1, etc... but there's plenty of season still. Let's just see how it goes. You are not negative, you just like to poop the party and are misinformed.
	'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill

11-05-2007, 01:01 PM	#4
JOESAM2002 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CRYSTAL BEACH TEXAS Posts: 4,100	Re: Happier, but still not happy Xan, I see where you're coming from but, this team has come a long way in the last few weeks.They're at least playing with heart now. We, as fans, owe them at the very least that recognition. Maybe they're not the Super Bowl Champions just yet, but at least they have the look of a team that COULD be. Let's give this bunch credit where credit is due. Hell,i'm proud of the way they've played the last few weeks. When was the last time you can rememebr watching the Saints and not really worry about the other team coming back and beating them on stupid plays? Anyway, realistic is good, I just hope you don't turn into another Euph!
	Sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought an idiot, than to open it and remove all doubt!!!!! "Every time you think, you weaken the nation!" Moe Howard...The Three Stooges.

11-05-2007, 01:20 PM	#5
WhoDat205 Prediction Pain Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 1,082 Blog Entries: 2	Re: Happier, but still not happy I think Xan makes one very valid point. The team is improving, but still has a long way to go.

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11-05-2007, 01:21 PM	#6
JOESAM2002 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CRYSTAL BEACH TEXAS Posts: 4,100	Re: Happier, but still not happy Originally Posted by WhoDat205 I think Xan makes one very valid point. The team is improving, but still has a long way to go. That's true. He's right,we do have a way to go but at least they're on the way up instead of down.

11-05-2007, 01:44 PM	#7
Budsdrinker A Cajun Transforming TX Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Woodlands, Texas Posts: 2,787	Re: Happier, but still not happy Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper How I wish all of you who want to rain on other people's parade would at least have the decency to a.- get their facts straight b.- keep the adjectives to a minimum 1.- The Jaguars are NOT a "confused" team. They are a hardnosed, well coached team. You have to be a well coached team to be 5-2 in the AFC. And who is this "big middle DT" that did not play? Stroud? Henderson? THEY BOTH PLAYED! And what team is not injured at this point in the season? How about the Saints playing without their starting center, or without Deuce, or a hobbled Charles Grant, or without their SP star (Gleason)? What, those don't count? 2.- So a QB whose name is not on ESPN 24x7 threw for 340-some yards. Ok. I don't know, maybe is me, or maybe it is that the defensive game plan was to commit to stop the Jags' bread and butter, the run, with those 2 no-names, who are they? ah, Fred Taylor and Maurice Jones-Drew, who combined for 84 yards rushing. The McKenzie INT wasn't a "rookie mistake" or "bad luck"; it came about because of the pressure the d-line was putting on the QB when he threw the ball. 3.- Sure Mare stinks at FGs. And the Saints are missing Gleason in coverage. And you forgot to add jason David here... 4.- Here you contradict yourself. In point 1, you said the Jaguars were missing their starting CB. Wouldn't it follow that a good coach would try to exploit that? i.e., throw the ball? And since when any mix of plays is 'historically good" or "historically bad"? You probably should tell that to the Patriots. Maybe Bellichick will see the error in his ways and start running the ball more. I tell you what's historically bad: trying to stick with a game plan no matter what and not taking what the defense gives you. Also historically bad, not scoring more points than the other team. Not to mention that many of these passes as swing/screen passes to Reggie, which takes me to... 5.- Reggie ran 17 times for 72 yards. For those who like stats, thats 4.2 a carry. He also caught 7 balls for 43 yards. How many of those balls were caught pass the LOS? 1? 2? And of those balls that he caught past the LOS, how far? 1 yard past the LOS? 2? 5? Most of the "passes" that go to Reggie are behind the LOS, and account to no more than a long hand off. 6.- There are no mortal locks in the NFL. 7,- What's this? It's the NFL. Anyone can beat anyone any given Sunday. 8 .- Not necessarily true. Just as the Giants have won 6 straight, they can lose 6 straight (did it last year). You may think that the Lions are going 14-2, the Packers 15-1, etc... but there's plenty of season still. Let's just see how it goes. You are not negative, you just like to poop the party and are misinformed. Very well said!!!!!!!!!!

11-05-2007, 01:53 PM	#8
Saintsfan4ever 500th Post Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Moss Point, MS Posts: 612 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Happier, but still not happy yeah yeah all that adversity other teams are having that we've exploited .... hold on while I get a tissue ... sniff sniff , ok better. Meanwhile,we lost Deuce and our power running game... but have adapted and won 4 in a row.... oh but wait I forgot, we won those because the other team got confused.

11-05-2007, 05:26 PM	#9
frankeefrank 500th Post Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 775	Re: Happier, but still not happy Last time I checked... The other guys get paid too... They are NFL teams. So, a win is a win. But, the pass defense "scheme" worries me some...
frankeefrank 500th Post Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 775

11-05-2007, 05:43 PM	#10
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,754	Re: Happier, but still not happy Originally Posted by Saintsfan4ever yeah yeah all that adversity other teams are having that we've exploited .... hold on while I get a tissue ... sniff sniff , ok better. Meanwhile,we lost Deuce and our power running game... but have adapted and won 4 in a row.... oh but wait I forgot, we won those because the other team got confused. Originally Posted by frankeefrank Last time I checked... The other guys get paid too... They are NFL teams. So, a win is a win. But, the pass defense "scheme" worries me some... Thank you. We win and still get discredited. Geezums.