i just don't think payton is the answer....

WhoDatQB · 12-24-2007, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by Cassady37

Ok, I don't know how to quite take this year but I do know this. All we needed was 2 things to make the play-offs and if we would've done them a while back we would not be having this conversation. 1, quit making Reggie the focus of our offensive play-calling, put him in space, create match-ups, use deception but pound the runs with someone a little more suited to the running game in the NFL. (This was Payton's choice.) And 2. if we replaced Jason David and left someone else in there for the remainder of the season we would've not given up quite so many easy pass-plays for scores. (This was Gibb's choice.) Given the change to both of these situations and we would be in the play-offs right now with no need to worry or argue. So who does the overall blame rest with for not making the calls on either one of these? And why do the majority of people watching the Saints games see this and the coaching staff can't? People from analysts, former players,former coaches, announcers and the everyday fan???

===========

Our offensive line cannot run block, in general. Not singling anyone one particular player out, however without a BIG, MEAN, DEUCE on the field we just have not been able to move anyone off the ball. With Deuce in the lineup this was less of a problem because he was/is? such a good running back.

Without some roadgraders at one Center position and another at guard it just isn't going to happen for our running game without a healthy Deuce, or Deuce like player. Brown needs to be a RT, there he can be one of if not the best in the league. Let some of our backups try for LT and if nothing then we need a new player there.

We have a lot more holes on offense to fill than folks see sometimes, if Deuce is out we need at least two new offensive players, maybe three. Let's not even talk about our defensive needs.

I am sorry maybe I am in the minority, but for the most part Payton is doing a good job considering all the issues. Not great but good. I mean any idiot could see Simmons and KK should be on the field over Simmoneau and Bullocks. Bullocks should beef up and move to Shanle's place and then I think we have most of the LB problem solved and just need to draft/FA a couple of corners and some D line help.

With a more complete team I think Payton can do wonders, his talent eval is sometimes questionable, of course it may be that Payton lets Gibbs handle all of that so that Oayton will have a scapegoat to fire at the end of this season.

Halo · 12-24-2007, 09:22 PM

I do think this coach is learning. I hate the excuse that the Saints were good last year because of the "Katrina Excitement" factor. Coach Peyton is young... very young. He motivated a defense that was sub par last year.

I also think for the great off season moves before 2006, we made some real crappy moves before 2007. I mean we have players we drafted that are not contributing and may never contribute.

I don't believe in the first year jinx. Next year will be pivotal for this team and coach. What happens this offseason will tell everyone what to expect this year. If we draft another WR in the first round you can forget about it. We have some major problems on defense and should concentrate our offseason on trading/drafting at least 1 major corner, some LB's that can cover the pass, and strengthening the d-line and o-line. If we draft skills positions like WR or another RB, everyone has a right to gripe.

BoudinSandwich · 12-24-2007, 09:34 PM

1-10: Empty Backfield, 4-Wide... Incomplete
2-10: 3-Bunch Right w/ 1-Back... 2yrd Gain
3-8: Empty Backfield, 4-Wide... Incomplete
Punt

1-10: 3-Bunch Left w/ 1-Back... 13yrd Gain
1-10: 3WR w/1-Back... 6yrd Run
2-4: 3-Bunch left w/ 1-back... Pass for -1yrd Loss
3-5: Empty Backfield, 4-Wide... Incomplete
Punt

1-10: 3WR w/1-Back... PLAYACTION... 15yrd Gain
1-10: Full Backfield... 4yrd Run
2-6: Empty Backfield, 4-Wide... 3yrd Gain
3-3: 3WR-Bunch Left w/ 1-Back... Pass for -1yrd Loss
Punt

Any of this sound familiar?

I see this every single Sunday. I think SP has 7 plays in his playbook - max.

Plenty of good points have been made. My faith is still with SP... though, I'd take Marty right about now. We just need a new playbook.

BoudinSandwich · 12-24-2007, 09:37 PM

1 more thing... the reason for the PLAYACTION part of that post:

Anyone else find it bizarre that we run play action passes even though we didn't have 1-single running play in the previous two drives?

Euphoria · 12-24-2007, 10:52 PM

I don't know if he is learning or not yet. I am giving him a pass this year. I think whats going to make or break him is this offseason.

NEXTPROBOWLER · 12-24-2007, 10:53 PM

We couldn't get their offense off the field," said Payton, a lament the 2006 Coach of the Year has used, accurately, many times in 2007.

As the Eagles were running out the clock Sunday, a small portion of what was left of a crowd of 70,011, started to yell: "Defense, defense, defense."

It sounded like a message to Payton about 2008's No. 1 priority.

from nola.com

MatthewT · 12-24-2007, 11:10 PM

Sounds like Sean loves the run and shoot. Maybe the Saints should hire Warren Moon as a consultant. Hell, I love the run and shoot too, but unless Sean has figured out a formula that no one else has, it simply doesn't work anymore.

Euphoria · 12-24-2007, 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by MatthewT

Sounds like Sean loves the run and shoot. Maybe the Saints should hire Warren Moon as a consultant. Hell, I love the run and shoot too, but unless Sean has figured out a formula that no one else has, it simply doesn't work anymore.

There is more wrong with the Defense than there is with the offense. The offense isn't losing them games it the defense can't stop anyone when they need to.

dasaints26 · 12-25-2007, 12:35 AM

I like Payton I think he will make a good head coach, but I think he made 3 terrible decisions this year that will make this team end at 8-8.
1)Knowing your kicker has a pulled groin and not getting a replacement or at least not counting on him for any production. I think that cost us that Carolina game.
2)Tampa Bay game trying to hold onto the lead by doing a double reverse flee flicker statue of liberty whatever it was. Even if it worked I think it would still go down as an unnecessary risk. I think that cost us the Bucs game.
3)Why challenge that pass to Patten on the 1 ft line? I think in a situation like that I would want my team to go no huddle run up to the line try a qb sneek or hand off to whoever is in the backfield. I think you give an advantage to the defense by giving them a rest and they can bring in the goal line defense with 6 dlinemen. Dont know how that series or the game would have ended up but if the defense wants to substitute goal line personnel I would make them call a TO and not just give them a chance to do it on a questionable challenge.

BoudinSandwich · 12-25-2007, 08:51 AM

I like the 3rd point in the above post. That challenge was ridiculous. We killed all of the momentum we had. We had the defense on the ropes and then we let them recover.

At first, I thought Sean Payton had an aweful lot of confidence in this football team. Throwing it 80% of the time, going for it on 4th down with the ball on our own 30-yard line, etc. Now, I'm starting to think the opposite.

Maybe he has no confidence in his team. Maybe that's why he thinks he has to run trick plays and try to fool teams every game. Maybe he doesn't think this team can just line up and perform.

And, yes, I also agree that the defense is the biggest concern. It should be the main concentration in the off season. That said, we still need another playbook - or atleast add twice as many plays as we have now.

12-24-2007, 09:19 PM	#21
WhoDatQB Boondock Saint Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: F***ing Atlanta Posts: 322	Re: i just don't think payton is the answer.... Originally Posted by Cassady37 Ok, I don't know how to quite take this year but I do know this. All we needed was 2 things to make the play-offs and if we would've done them a while back we would not be having this conversation. 1, quit making Reggie the focus of our offensive play-calling, put him in space, create match-ups, use deception but pound the runs with someone a little more suited to the running game in the NFL. (This was Payton's choice.) And 2. if we replaced Jason David and left someone else in there for the remainder of the season we would've not given up quite so many easy pass-plays for scores. (This was Gibb's choice.) Given the change to both of these situations and we would be in the play-offs right now with no need to worry or argue. So who does the overall blame rest with for not making the calls on either one of these? And why do the majority of people watching the Saints games see this and the coaching staff can't? People from analysts, former players,former coaches, announcers and the everyday fan??? =========== Our offensive line cannot run block, in general. Not singling anyone one particular player out, however without a BIG, MEAN, DEUCE on the field we just have not been able to move anyone off the ball. With Deuce in the lineup this was less of a problem because he was/is? such a good running back. Without some roadgraders at one Center position and another at guard it just isn't going to happen for our running game without a healthy Deuce, or Deuce like player. Brown needs to be a RT, there he can be one of if not the best in the league. Let some of our backups try for LT and if nothing then we need a new player there. We have a lot more holes on offense to fill than folks see sometimes, if Deuce is out we need at least two new offensive players, maybe three. Let's not even talk about our defensive needs. I am sorry maybe I am in the minority, but for the most part Payton is doing a good job considering all the issues. Not great but good. I mean any idiot could see Simmons and KK should be on the field over Simmoneau and Bullocks. Bullocks should beef up and move to Shanle's place and then I think we have most of the LB problem solved and just need to draft/FA a couple of corners and some D line help. With a more complete team I think Payton can do wonders, his talent eval is sometimes questionable, of course it may be that Payton lets Gibbs handle all of that so that Oayton will have a scapegoat to fire at the end of this season.

12-24-2007, 09:22 PM	#22
Halo Site Donor MONTHLY Join Date: May 2002 Location: New Orleans, LA Posts: 20,605 Blog Entries: 45	Re: i just don't think payton is the answer.... I do think this coach is learning. I hate the excuse that the Saints were good last year because of the "Katrina Excitement" factor. Coach Peyton is young... very young. He motivated a defense that was sub par last year. I also think for the great off season moves before 2006, we made some real crappy moves before 2007. I mean we have players we drafted that are not contributing and may never contribute. I don't believe in the first year jinx. Next year will be pivotal for this team and coach. What happens this offseason will tell everyone what to expect this year. If we draft another WR in the first round you can forget about it. We have some major problems on defense and should concentrate our offseason on trading/drafting at least 1 major corner, some LB's that can cover the pass, and strengthening the d-line and o-line. If we draft skills positions like WR or another RB, everyone has a right to gripe.
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12-24-2007, 09:34 PM	#23
BoudinSandwich OldiesDJ Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Scott, LA Posts: 951 Blog Entries: 12	Re: i just don't think payton is the answer.... 1-10: Empty Backfield, 4-Wide... Incomplete 2-10: 3-Bunch Right w/ 1-Back... 2yrd Gain 3-8: Empty Backfield, 4-Wide... Incomplete Punt 1-10: 3-Bunch Left w/ 1-Back... 13yrd Gain 1-10: 3WR w/1-Back... 6yrd Run 2-4: 3-Bunch left w/ 1-back... Pass for -1yrd Loss 3-5: Empty Backfield, 4-Wide... Incomplete Punt 1-10: 3WR w/1-Back... PLAYACTION... 15yrd Gain 1-10: Full Backfield... 4yrd Run 2-6: Empty Backfield, 4-Wide... 3yrd Gain 3-3: 3WR-Bunch Left w/ 1-Back... Pass for -1yrd Loss Punt Any of this sound familiar? I see this every single Sunday. I think SP has 7 plays in his playbook - max. Plenty of good points have been made. My faith is still with SP... though, I'd take Marty right about now. We just need a new playbook.
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12-24-2007, 09:37 PM	#24
BoudinSandwich OldiesDJ Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Scott, LA Posts: 951 Blog Entries: 12	Re: i just don't think payton is the answer.... 1 more thing... the reason for the PLAYACTION part of that post: Anyone else find it bizarre that we run play action passes even though we didn't have 1-single running play in the previous two drives?

12-24-2007, 10:52 PM	#25
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: i just don't think payton is the answer.... I don't know if he is learning or not yet. I am giving him a pass this year. I think whats going to make or break him is this offseason.

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12-24-2007, 10:53 PM	#26
NEXTPROBOWLER 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 269	Re: i just don't think payton is the answer.... We couldn't get their offense off the field," said Payton, a lament the 2006 Coach of the Year has used, accurately, many times in 2007. As the Eagles were running out the clock Sunday, a small portion of what was left of a crowd of 70,011, started to yell: "Defense, defense, defense." It sounded like a message to Payton about 2008's No. 1 priority. from nola.com

12-24-2007, 11:10 PM	#27
MatthewT 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,729	Re: i just don't think payton is the answer.... Sounds like Sean loves the run and shoot. Maybe the Saints should hire Warren Moon as a consultant. Hell, I love the run and shoot too, but unless Sean has figured out a formula that no one else has, it simply doesn't work anymore.

12-24-2007, 11:40 PM	#28
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: i just don't think payton is the answer.... Originally Posted by MatthewT Sounds like Sean loves the run and shoot. Maybe the Saints should hire Warren Moon as a consultant. Hell, I love the run and shoot too, but unless Sean has figured out a formula that no one else has, it simply doesn't work anymore. There is more wrong with the Defense than there is with the offense. The offense isn't losing them games it the defense can't stop anyone when they need to.

12-25-2007, 12:35 AM	#29
dasaints26 100th Post Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 167	Re: i just don't think payton is the answer.... I like Payton I think he will make a good head coach, but I think he made 3 terrible decisions this year that will make this team end at 8-8. 1)Knowing your kicker has a pulled groin and not getting a replacement or at least not counting on him for any production. I think that cost us that Carolina game. 2)Tampa Bay game trying to hold onto the lead by doing a double reverse flee flicker statue of liberty whatever it was. Even if it worked I think it would still go down as an unnecessary risk. I think that cost us the Bucs game. 3)Why challenge that pass to Patten on the 1 ft line? I think in a situation like that I would want my team to go no huddle run up to the line try a qb sneek or hand off to whoever is in the backfield. I think you give an advantage to the defense by giving them a rest and they can bring in the goal line defense with 6 dlinemen. Dont know how that series or the game would have ended up but if the defense wants to substitute goal line personnel I would make them call a TO and not just give them a chance to do it on a questionable challenge.
dasaints26 100th Post Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 167

12-25-2007, 08:51 AM	#30
BoudinSandwich OldiesDJ Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Scott, LA Posts: 951 Blog Entries: 12	Re: i just don't think payton is the answer.... I like the 3rd point in the above post. That challenge was ridiculous. We killed all of the momentum we had. We had the defense on the ropes and then we let them recover. At first, I thought Sean Payton had an aweful lot of confidence in this football team. Throwing it 80% of the time, going for it on 4th down with the ball on our own 30-yard line, etc. Now, I'm starting to think the opposite. Maybe he has no confidence in his team. Maybe that's why he thinks he has to run trick plays and try to fool teams every game. Maybe he doesn't think this team can just line up and perform. And, yes, I also agree that the defense is the biggest concern. It should be the main concentration in the off season. That said, we still need another playbook - or atleast add twice as many plays as we have now.
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