FrenzyFan

I held off posting for a day to try to give yesterday's game time to fade from my memory, but I have to agree with this post 100%. Payton does so many things wrong, I think our players are winning games in spite of him, rather than with his assistance.

When his game plan works for a particular week, everything's OK. When his game plan isn't working, he rides that failed effort all day long - never adjusts. Our entire offense seems to be misdirection and trick plays. That helps other teams predict the potential for trick plays. No one is fooled any more. Do you notice how opposing defenses always seem to be in position to blow up our plays?

He gambles too much. I'm not saying that gambling is bad, when its used in moderation. It's like he can't turn it off. He challenges meaningless plays, seemingly without any of "our" booth review - thus wasting time outs. He tries to force plays when its obvious to everyone (including my football-clueless wife) that we need to try something different. His gambling cost us two wins this year.

He's not much good at talent evaluation. I know everyone just screamed "Colston" at the monitor, but if he thought Colston was any good - he wouldn't have waited until the seventh to pick him up. The rest of his draft (in both years) is spotty at best - Reggie not withstanding (I think he'll be a fine RB shortly). Additionally, he values work-ethic more than talent and skill on the field. He likes guys who bring their lunch pail to work and will keep them on the field seemingly just because they try hard. It doesn't matter that they're getting beat all over the place - the guy tries hard so he's a "Payton Guy" and play in spite of the fact that we can all see his backup outplaying him when they're on the field. That's very heartwarming but not much good to the team, the owners or the fans. It seems to be the same with coaches - with inferior guys running the show (though I'm not sure how much influence Payton has over the coaching staff - so I give him a pass on that one).

The players are losing (if they haven't already lost) faith in him. How many of you noticed the way the players are reacting to him now? I can't hear what they're saying to each other, but their body language is telling. It resembles how people behave when they are around that one guy at work that everyone finds annoying and "full of it", but for the sake of politeness they endure his presence. I even saw Charles Grant reach out a hand as if to say "Get away from me" when Payton was walking alongside him trying to talk to him.

Those are the things I see when I evaluate my beloved Saints. It's just my opinion, but I think it's accurate. Payton is not a good coach. Good coaches I see around the league seemingly struggle for several years while they build a good team. The teach fundamentals while they build the talent they need. The teams they are building seem to play hard, but still lose more than they win for a while - but they play solid fundamental football. Then when the talent joins the team, they start to win and compete consistently and win lots of football games. We were all drinking the kool-aid from last year's magical fluke - but that's not how a good coach works. Our fundamentals are awful on both sides of the ball and our players do not play with discipline.

Everyone in the league was shocked by Payton's new style of "gamble-ball" and it worked for a year while people figured it out. Now we're seeing what kind of coach he really is, when his one surprise trick has been taken away. Weekly we get to watch as our team is over-matched, out-coached, and humbled (lots of times even when the scoreboards shows that we won).

CheramieIII

I will support Payton until about 5 or 6 games into next season. If we are anything below 500 I will be calling for the boy genusis head and we better have a brand new defense and defensive coach this stuff has got to end and end now.

cadilacin

Must of yall make good points....but...for me this Thread is right on the money. When I went back to watch the nfc championship game I thought his playcallin was horrible and cost us the game.

This season he hasn't gotten any better. We need a defensive minded coaching staff.

If Payton does stay....he does need to hire a new D-Cord and a new Defensive Staff.

I know we've had alot of injuries, but the most disappointing constant this year has been Sean Payton's playcalling.

Tobias-Reiper

.. you mean defensive minded like Haslett or Marvin Lewis?
Hell no!!!


The most dissapointing constant of this year has been the defense not being able to stop anyone.
We have 3rd Down giving away 3rd and longs like they're going out of style, a MLB who constantly runs into the back of whichever DT is in front of him, 2 DEs who are so foreign to the opposing team's backfield they need to present passports to rush the QB, and a FS who avoids open gaps like Herpes.
Among the starters, only Fujita and McKenzie are worth their pay.

We don't need a "defensive minded" coach. We just need Payton to mind the defense, and realize that he needs to be the head coach, not just the OC, and that he needs to make personnel calls on defense as well, and that includes the coaching staff as well as the players.

'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill

hagan714

I know Duce, you were not going down that path.
I have been waiting for this. As soon as we loose it starts. We win and it is quite. LOL
There is no way the saints can focus as much on offense as they have in the past 2 years. They are simply running out of rooster spots. Thats all. I need to know if the OL drafted in the past 2 drafts are going to be ready to step in. Is Duce going to really come back and be productive? What else is left. Colston will get a big pay raise. Mechem is getting big money already. As are Bush and Drew. So the OL and Duce are the big question marks. The OL is so close to being done it is sicking. I still want Brown moved back to RT. To do it we might have to draft a LT to start if the bench can not do it. If Duce does not come back we can go FA or draft. But PT and Stecker might do well with bush in the same backfield.

Whats left? DEFENSE

Year two of the rebuild gang. RELAX. I like the depth we have shown on this team. Alot of players stepped up and played well with all the injuries we have had in this season. I am amazed that we are looking at 500 with Duce out and all the injuries. 2 years ago we would have been in the running for the #1 pick of the draft.

"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins

bobcat4u2

i saw 4 games that the coaching was a good part of the loss.talent covers some,teaching of position covers some,health covers a lot.hopefully,he will improve his grades next year as well as the players learning.that leaves talent improvement and team health to deal with.
what " GENIUS COACH " is available that we could get to do better?

Kittykat

I don't think Payton is the whole, entire problem.

Last year he could do no wrong and he and the entire Saints roster were the league's Golden Boys. An NFC South Championship during your first year as head coach of what is thought to be a dismal team is surely going to give you a boost in your confidence.

Then think about post-season when everyone was touting that this might be the year that the Saints can take it all the way to the Superbowl AND win. Ah, yes, let's boost that confidence (and ego) a little bit more.

I think Payton suffers from a bit of the big head with a large dose of knucklehead thrown in for good measure. I think he calls these boneheaded plays (swing pass on 3rd and short? wtf?!) because he thinks he's a bit of a miracle worker.

Maybe this is the kind of year the team (or more specifically, Payton) needed. A reality check of sorts. Don't be cute, don't be stupid and don't be a knucklehead.

I don't even think you can count last year as experience for Payton. Too many emotions tied to it for it to be a true, down in the dirt, first year as head coach coaching experience. I like to think of this year as his real first year out of the gate...and I think he did all right.

Now, if he comes out with the same kind of BS next year I might be singing a totally different tune. Until then, I'm with him.

http://www.gulftel.com/exploregear/k...odbadugly1.jpg

Cassady37

Ok, I don't know how to quite take this year but I do know this. All we needed was 2 things to make the play-offs and if we would've done them a while back we would not be having this conversation. 1, quit making Reggie the focus of our offensive play-calling, put him in space, create match-ups, use deception but pound the runs with someone a little more suited to the running game in the NFL. (This was Payton's choice.) And 2. if we replaced Jason David and left someone else in there for the remainder of the season we would've not given up quite so many easy pass-plays for scores. (This was Gibb's choice.) Given the change to both of these situations and we would be in the play-offs right now with no need to worry or argue. So who does the overall blame rest with for not making the calls on either one of these? And why do the majority of people watching the Saints games see this and the coaching staff can't? People from analysts, former players,former coaches, announcers and the everyday fan???

WhoDatQB

===========

Our offensive line cannot run block, in general. Not singling anyone one particular player out, however without a BIG, MEAN, DEUCE on the field we just have not been able to move anyone off the ball. With Deuce in the lineup this was less of a problem because he was/is? such a good running back.

Without some roadgraders at one Center position and another at guard it just isn't going to happen for our running game without a healthy Deuce, or Deuce like player. Brown needs to be a RT, there he can be one of if not the best in the league. Let some of our backups try for LT and if nothing then we need a new player there.

We have a lot more holes on offense to fill than folks see sometimes, if Deuce is out we need at least two new offensive players, maybe three. Let's not even talk about our defensive needs.


I am sorry maybe I am in the minority, but for the most part Payton is doing a good job considering all the issues. Not great but good. I mean any idiot could see Simmons and KK should be on the field over Simmoneau and Bullocks. Bullocks should beef up and move to Shanle's place and then I think we have most of the LB problem solved and just need to draft/FA a couple of corners and some D line help.

With a more complete team I think Payton can do wonders, his talent eval is sometimes questionable, of course it may be that Payton lets Gibbs handle all of that so that Oayton will have a scapegoat to fire at the end of this season.

BoudinSandwich

1-10: Empty Backfield, 4-Wide... Incomplete
2-10: 3-Bunch Right w/ 1-Back... 2yrd Gain
3-8: Empty Backfield, 4-Wide... Incomplete
Punt

1-10: 3-Bunch Left w/ 1-Back... 13yrd Gain
1-10: 3WR w/1-Back... 6yrd Run
2-4: 3-Bunch left w/ 1-back... Pass for -1yrd Loss
3-5: Empty Backfield, 4-Wide... Incomplete
Punt

1-10: 3WR w/1-Back... PLAYACTION... 15yrd Gain
1-10: Full Backfield... 4yrd Run
2-6: Empty Backfield, 4-Wide... 3yrd Gain
3-3: 3WR-Bunch Left w/ 1-Back... Pass for -1yrd Loss
Punt



Any of this sound familiar?



I see this every single Sunday. I think SP has 7 plays in his playbook - max.


Plenty of good points have been made. My faith is still with SP... though, I'd take Marty right about now. We just need a new playbook.

Season Ticket Holder Since 2005