Exhibit A: Meachem; Exhibit B:David

hagan714 · 12-29-2007, 06:37 AM

he following selections were made with drafts from 1985 through 2003. Information provided includes the school they attended, the team that selected them and in what draft they were taken. The players draft position overall can be seen in parenthesis.

First Team

QB Ryan Leaf (2) Washington State-San Diego Chargers-1998
RB Blair Thomas (2) Penn State-New York Jets-1990
WR Desmond Howard(4) Michigan-Washington Redskins-1992
TE Ricky Dudley(9) Ohio State-Houston Oilers-1996
OT Tony Mandarich(2) Michigan State-Green Bay Packers-1989
OG Eugene Chung(13) Virginia Tech-New England Patriots-1992
DE Aundray Bruce(1) Auburn-Atlanta Falcons-1988
DT Steve Emtman(1) Washington-Indianapolis Colts-1992
LB Brian Bosworth(2) Oklahoma-Seattle Seahawks-1987
CB Bruce Pickens(3) Nebraska-Atlanta Falcons-1991
S Patrick Bates (12) Texas A&M-Los Angeles Raiders-1993

Second Team

QB Heath Schuler (3) Tennessee-Washington Redskins-1994
RB Lawrence Philips (6) Nebraska-St. Louis Rams-1995
WR Michael Westbrook (4) Colorado-Washington Redskins-1995
TE David LaFluer(22) LSU-Dallas Cowboys-1997
OT Antoine Davis(8) Tennessee-Philadelphia Eagles-1991
OG Brian Jozwiak(7) West Virginia-Kansas City Chiefs-1986
DE Andre Wadsworth(3) Florida State-Arizona Cardinals-1998
DT Dimitrius Underwood(29) Michigan State-MinnesotaVikings-1999
LB Percy Snow(13) Michigan State-Kansas City Chiefs-1990
CB Michael Booker(11) Nebraska-Atlanta Flacons-1997
S Shaun Williams(24) UCLA-New York Giants-1998

Not a saint in the group

saintsfan1976 · 12-29-2007, 08:39 AM

Originally Posted by hagan714

I will not argue the point that the saints have in the past two years been building the offense. first you sign Drew to a mega contract coming off a shoulder injury. You better have the line. Then Bush falls into your lap. You really have you hand forced now. So in two years we have turned over the starting and have one remaining player and the depth to lead the NFL in the fewest sacks allowed in both years. Now that coaching and FO work at its finest. But at what cost?
The defense has not really been addressed. The team knows it. It is us the fans that that need a little insight. Thats why so many defensive players have been signed to one year deals over the past two years. They are stop gap measures, thats all. A temp fix till we get started on that side of the ball. Why sign players that you know do not fit your long term plans to long contracts? It just makes the rebuilding process that much longer. This is why I give Gibbs a pass. He is dealing with a situation he has really no control over. He knows the plans and is trying to the best he can with the players he has got. Many are nothing more than top notch backups around the NFL patched together as a starting unit. Now when we start getting those real starter types on the team you all will love the depth the coaches have added for now. I am telling you if you look at this from that angle we have all the bench players we need. One heck of an excellent group of second stringers. Depth will not be an issue. So forget about the second half of that building part. That part has been done. Heck they even got a couple of starters along the way.
But do we now go all out and not finish the job on the offensive side of the ball? We are so close. One to 3 pieces are needed. Thats it. I say finish the job you have started. Will the draft be so one sided? No way. we are almost done.

Agreed all the way around. That's why I hope to see a solid Defensive draft pick in addition to a key defensive FA (LB CB)

dasaints26 · 12-29-2007, 11:46 AM

What about Oaklands #1 selection this year DaMarcus Russell. After a long hold out this offseason he was all but useless to them this year. Do you label him a bust? Do you give him time to learn the position and the speed of the NFL? What were his numbers last week 3 out of 10 and a couple picks? That seems like a bust I would cut him. I'm going to hold any judgement on Meachem TILL HE ACTUALLY PLAYS.
As for B the prosecutor drops the case. He sucks he cant understand the man he lines up across from is his responsibility. It is his job to cover the wr and either he cant do or he cant resist the temptation to peek in the backfield. Whatever the problem I dont think it is fixable. This was a match fit for this team and/or scheme. Please suit up Fred Thomas.

Haps Biggest Fan · 12-29-2007, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by dasaints26

What about Oaklands #1 selection this year DaMarcus Russell. After a long hold out this offseason he was all but useless to them this year. Do you label him a bust? Do you give him time to learn the position and the speed of the NFL? What were his numbers last week 3 out of 10 and a couple picks? That seems like a bust I would cut him. I'm going to hold any judgement on Meachem TILL HE ACTUALLY PLAYS.
As for B the prosecutor drops the case. He sucks he cant understand the man he lines up across from is his responsibility. It is his job to cover the wr and either he cant do or he cant resist the temptation to peek in the backfield. Whatever the problem I dont think it is fixable. This was a match fit for this team and/or scheme. Please suit up Fred Thomas.

I'm not judging Meachem at all. I am indeed passing judgment on a FO that uses its first pick to take a WR that doesn't play a down all year.

If you think that comparing Meachem, a WR, to a rookie QB, Russel, is a good comparison, and excuses the Saints FO, then, I have no further comments for you. Everybody knows that many rookie QBs take a year to learn . . . but a WR?? Not so often . . .

Haps Biggest Fan · 12-29-2007, 05:25 PM

My main point is that we, as Saints fans, should try to let the FO know that we are watching their moves, and, we expect them to do a GREAT job, not just an average job.

hagan714 · 12-29-2007, 07:19 PM

No I am not excusing the FO. I am always on Mickey "the Mouse" Loomis's case. But I will admit when they have done something right. The OL is built for the west coast. Complete turn over and they did a great job so far. So Hooah to them.
On the defensive side they have been patching a unit together. A ton of one and two year contracts. A bunch of top flight backups and thats it. They have found a couple of starters on the way.
Now if they duplicate the effort when we make the defensive push it will be amazing. They have not really applied the push yet. Next year I expect to see more than a few new faces on that side of the ball. I give them 2 more years to get a unit together and finish of the offense side. Then I will judge.

Haps Biggest Fan · 12-29-2007, 08:16 PM

Originally Posted by hagan714

No I am not excusing the FO. I am always on Mickey "the Mouse" Loomis's case. But I will admit when they have done something right. The OL is built for the west coast. Complete turn over and they did a great job so far. So Hooah to them.
On the defensive side they have been patching a unit together. A ton of one and two year contracts. A bunch of top flight backups and thats it. They have found a couple of starters on the way.
Now if they duplicate the effort when we make the defensive push it will be amazing. They have not really applied the push yet. Next year I expect to see more than a few new faces on that side of the ball. I give them 2 more years to get a unit together and finish of the offense side. Then I will judge.

Two more years of cushion for this FO seems very generous. Are you sure that it's warranted?

LordOfEntropy · 12-29-2007, 09:26 PM

Warranted? Yes, I think it is. Haz was given more time than that. Four years to rebuild a team is reasonable - very reasonable.

If Hagan is right, then we're in for a real treat in two years time. But we must also remember that the clock is ticking. Brees won't be in his prime forever. And since Brees is our best shot for a Superbowl win (IMO), we must move quickly to get a supporting cast around him. Quickly. It must start happening - NOW.

hagan714 · 12-29-2007, 11:15 PM

If we get so luck as in 2006 to rebuild the defense we will be there a year early. But that does not happen often. The saints D did much better against the run and the secondary will get a couple of new faces. At least 4 IMO. 2 CB and a S. The 4th will be a hybrid. Then some youth at LB and the line. Lets see in may.
Remember Haz went backward and so far we are going forward. I am looking for a team that wins more than one super bowl ring

andersen · 12-29-2007, 11:25 PM

shoot, I'll take the one ring.

12-29-2007, 06:37 AM	#21
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Exhibit A: Meachem; Exhibit B:David he following selections were made with drafts from 1985 through 2003. Information provided includes the school they attended, the team that selected them and in what draft they were taken. The players draft position overall can be seen in parenthesis. First Team QB Ryan Leaf (2) Washington State-San Diego Chargers-1998 RB Blair Thomas (2) Penn State-New York Jets-1990 WR Desmond Howard(4) Michigan-Washington Redskins-1992 TE Ricky Dudley(9) Ohio State-Houston Oilers-1996 OT Tony Mandarich(2) Michigan State-Green Bay Packers-1989 OG Eugene Chung(13) Virginia Tech-New England Patriots-1992 DE Aundray Bruce(1) Auburn-Atlanta Falcons-1988 DT Steve Emtman(1) Washington-Indianapolis Colts-1992 LB Brian Bosworth(2) Oklahoma-Seattle Seahawks-1987 CB Bruce Pickens(3) Nebraska-Atlanta Falcons-1991 S Patrick Bates (12) Texas A&M-Los Angeles Raiders-1993 Second Team QB Heath Schuler (3) Tennessee-Washington Redskins-1994 RB Lawrence Philips (6) Nebraska-St. Louis Rams-1995 WR Michael Westbrook (4) Colorado-Washington Redskins-1995 TE David LaFluer(22) LSU-Dallas Cowboys-1997 OT Antoine Davis(8) Tennessee-Philadelphia Eagles-1991 OG Brian Jozwiak(7) West Virginia-Kansas City Chiefs-1986 DE Andre Wadsworth(3) Florida State-Arizona Cardinals-1998 DT Dimitrius Underwood(29) Michigan State-MinnesotaVikings-1999 LB Percy Snow(13) Michigan State-Kansas City Chiefs-1990 CB Michael Booker(11) Nebraska-Atlanta Flacons-1997 S Shaun Williams(24) UCLA-New York Giants-1998 Not a saint in the group
	"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins

12-29-2007, 08:39 AM	#22
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 11,103 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Exhibit A: Meachem; Exhibit B:David Originally Posted by hagan714 I will not argue the point that the saints have in the past two years been building the offense. first you sign Drew to a mega contract coming off a shoulder injury. You better have the line. Then Bush falls into your lap. You really have you hand forced now. So in two years we have turned over the starting and have one remaining player and the depth to lead the NFL in the fewest sacks allowed in both years. Now that coaching and FO work at its finest. But at what cost? The defense has not really been addressed. The team knows it. It is us the fans that that need a little insight. Thats why so many defensive players have been signed to one year deals over the past two years. They are stop gap measures, thats all. A temp fix till we get started on that side of the ball. Why sign players that you know do not fit your long term plans to long contracts? It just makes the rebuilding process that much longer. This is why I give Gibbs a pass. He is dealing with a situation he has really no control over. He knows the plans and is trying to the best he can with the players he has got. Many are nothing more than top notch backups around the NFL patched together as a starting unit. Now when we start getting those real starter types on the team you all will love the depth the coaches have added for now. I am telling you if you look at this from that angle we have all the bench players we need. One heck of an excellent group of second stringers. Depth will not be an issue. So forget about the second half of that building part. That part has been done. Heck they even got a couple of starters along the way. But do we now go all out and not finish the job on the offensive side of the ball? We are so close. One to 3 pieces are needed. Thats it. I say finish the job you have started. Will the draft be so one sided? No way. we are almost done. Agreed all the way around. That's why I hope to see a solid Defensive draft pick in addition to a key defensive FA (LB CB)

12-29-2007, 11:46 AM	#23
dasaints26 100th Post Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 167	Re: Exhibit A: Meachem; Exhibit B:David What about Oaklands #1 selection this year DaMarcus Russell. After a long hold out this offseason he was all but useless to them this year. Do you label him a bust? Do you give him time to learn the position and the speed of the NFL? What were his numbers last week 3 out of 10 and a couple picks? That seems like a bust I would cut him. I'm going to hold any judgement on Meachem TILL HE ACTUALLY PLAYS. As for B the prosecutor drops the case. He sucks he cant understand the man he lines up across from is his responsibility. It is his job to cover the wr and either he cant do or he cant resist the temptation to peek in the backfield. Whatever the problem I dont think it is fixable. This was a match fit for this team and/or scheme. Please suit up Fred Thomas.
dasaints26 100th Post Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 167

12-29-2007, 05:16 PM	#24
Haps Biggest Fan Fan Since 1967 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Louisiana Posts: 148	Re: Exhibit A: Meachem; Exhibit B:David Originally Posted by dasaints26 What about Oaklands #1 selection this year DaMarcus Russell. After a long hold out this offseason he was all but useless to them this year. Do you label him a bust? Do you give him time to learn the position and the speed of the NFL? What were his numbers last week 3 out of 10 and a couple picks? That seems like a bust I would cut him. I'm going to hold any judgement on Meachem TILL HE ACTUALLY PLAYS. As for B the prosecutor drops the case. He sucks he cant understand the man he lines up across from is his responsibility. It is his job to cover the wr and either he cant do or he cant resist the temptation to peek in the backfield. Whatever the problem I dont think it is fixable. This was a match fit for this team and/or scheme. Please suit up Fred Thomas. I'm not judging Meachem at all. I am indeed passing judgment on a FO that uses its first pick to take a WR that doesn't play a down all year. If you think that comparing Meachem, a WR, to a rookie QB, Russel, is a good comparison, and excuses the Saints FO, then, I have no further comments for you. Everybody knows that many rookie QBs take a year to learn . . . but a WR?? Not so often . . .

12-29-2007, 05:25 PM	#25
Haps Biggest Fan Fan Since 1967 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Louisiana Posts: 148	Re: Exhibit A: Meachem; Exhibit B:David My main point is that we, as Saints fans, should try to let the FO know that we are watching their moves, and, we expect them to do a GREAT job, not just an average job.

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12-29-2007, 07:19 PM	#26
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Exhibit A: Meachem; Exhibit B:David No I am not excusing the FO. I am always on Mickey "the Mouse" Loomis's case. But I will admit when they have done something right. The OL is built for the west coast. Complete turn over and they did a great job so far. So Hooah to them. On the defensive side they have been patching a unit together. A ton of one and two year contracts. A bunch of top flight backups and thats it. They have found a couple of starters on the way. Now if they duplicate the effort when we make the defensive push it will be amazing. They have not really applied the push yet. Next year I expect to see more than a few new faces on that side of the ball. I give them 2 more years to get a unit together and finish of the offense side. Then I will judge.
	"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins

12-29-2007, 08:16 PM	#27
Haps Biggest Fan Fan Since 1967 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Louisiana Posts: 148	Re: Exhibit A: Meachem; Exhibit B:David Originally Posted by hagan714 No I am not excusing the FO. I am always on Mickey "the Mouse" Loomis's case. But I will admit when they have done something right. The OL is built for the west coast. Complete turn over and they did a great job so far. So Hooah to them. On the defensive side they have been patching a unit together. A ton of one and two year contracts. A bunch of top flight backups and thats it. They have found a couple of starters on the way. Now if they duplicate the effort when we make the defensive push it will be amazing. They have not really applied the push yet. Next year I expect to see more than a few new faces on that side of the ball. I give them 2 more years to get a unit together and finish of the offense side. Then I will judge. Two more years of cushion for this FO seems very generous. Are you sure that it's warranted?

12-29-2007, 09:26 PM	#28
LordOfEntropy 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 1,838	Re: Exhibit A: Meachem; Exhibit B:David Warranted? Yes, I think it is. Haz was given more time than that. Four years to rebuild a team is reasonable - very reasonable. If Hagan is right, then we're in for a real treat in two years time. But we must also remember that the clock is ticking. Brees won't be in his prime forever. And since Brees is our best shot for a Superbowl win (IMO), we must move quickly to get a supporting cast around him. Quickly. It must start happening - NOW.

12-29-2007, 11:15 PM	#29
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Exhibit A: Meachem; Exhibit B:David If we get so luck as in 2006 to rebuild the defense we will be there a year early. But that does not happen often. The saints D did much better against the run and the secondary will get a couple of new faces. At least 4 IMO. 2 CB and a S. The 4th will be a hybrid. Then some youth at LB and the line. Lets see in may. Remember Haz went backward and so far we are going forward. I am looking for a team that wins more than one super bowl ring
	Last edited by hagan714; 12-29-2007 at 11:17 PM..

12-29-2007, 11:25 PM	#30
andersen With an "E" Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Madisonville, LA Posts: 429	Re: Exhibit A: Meachem; Exhibit B:David shoot, I'll take the one ring.