Saints' defense stunk

QBREES9 · 01-01-2008, 08:12 PM

No question about it: Saints' defense stunk- NOLA.com

We need to improve our defense," Payton said flatly.

Start at the top, with coordinator Gary Gibbs. And either replace him, or give him a chance to change the players he's asking to perform, or the philosophy that's keeping the players he has from performing.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 01-02-2008, 02:24 AM

DeShazier speaks the truth. The question is whether or not Payton and Loomis have the guts to detonate the current defense and start over.

SFIAH

hagan714 · 01-02-2008, 04:16 AM

They do not need to start over. The need key upgrades. We have a great collection of backups that fit the teams style. The problem is they are starting. But it is hard to say thats a problem. When you do upgrade the unit you have a solid rotation with plenty of playing time. Thats a good thing. except the secondary. Some simply must go

SaintFanInATLHELL · 01-02-2008, 06:28 AM

Originally Posted by hagan714

They do not need to start over. The need key upgrades.

That's what they supposedly did last offseason. It didn't work very well.
You do know what they call trying the same thing over again but expecting a different result?

We have a great collection of backups that fit the teams style. The problem is they are starting. But it is hard to say thats a problem. When you do upgrade the unit you have a solid rotation with plenty of playing time. Thats a good thing. except the secondary. Some simply must go

Putting new starters out on the field is detonating the defense. Most likely the Saints need 7 new starting defensive players: DT, MLB, WLB, both corners, and both safeties. It may even be possible that we currently have those players on staff. But IMO B. Young, Simineaux, Shanlee, David, Bullocks, and probably Harper all need to be riding pine, or in the case of UFA playing somewhere else, in September 2008. Also MacKenzie isn't going to be ready until midseason, so we need someone in his spot.

As for Gibbs, he needs to be let go because of his inability to adjust. When you don't have the personnel to run the defense you want to run, you adjust your defense to the personnel that you have. Also it seems obvious to many of us that many starters out there are worse than the backups. So why are they playing. When scheme and talent evaluation is that bad, then a change needs to be made.

This defense cannot be tweaked. Fundamental changes in scheme, personnel, philosophy, and coaching need to be make.

I see no reason to sugar coat the truth. Change it and change it now before it gets worse.

SFIAH

hagan714 · 01-02-2008, 07:09 AM

I look at the unit and I agree we have few true starters but we do have more than some players that are good back ups, for now. Concentrate on starters more than back ups in FA is my only point. We got plenty of them. Stick with the one and two year contracts we have been doing, so you have an out as replacements are found. Thats all. Just do not go cut crazy. Just not yet. Spread it out over two or three years. Now the CB that a whole different story. As I look at it we have two keepers and one we are stuck with. So FA and the draft can upgrade it quickly.

Read an old blog I wrote earlier this year and I go into more details on the player we have on defense.

Rent A Defense - Black and Gold Forums

WillMacKenzie · 01-02-2008, 11:18 PM

I think Harper is good enough to play, keep in mind he's got virtually no one helping him and it was almost just like his rookie year this year. I say give him another opportunity - as for bullocks, BYE.

hagan714 · 01-03-2008, 04:30 AM

Harpers and bullocks have had one full year together. Thats it. Does the play need to improve? Yes. I say give Harper a break and if Bullocks can be resigned at a good price sign him. I would like to see the both of them play under some new coaching or at least tweak the system a bit. With age of the secondary I would hate to loss any youth at this time. At one time we all praised both players.

WhoDatQB · 01-03-2008, 07:46 AM

Originally Posted by hagan714

Harpers and bullocks have had one full year together. Thats it. Does the play need to improve? Yes. I say give Harper a break and if Bullocks can be resigned at a good price sign him. I would like to see the both of them play under some new coaching or at least tweak the system a bit. With age of the secondary I would hate to loss any youth at this time. At one time we all praised both players.

=-=====

I agree I think Harper will be a well above average safety given half the chance. However Bullocks is not good enough in coverage to be a safety. He is our Roy Williams. He needs to bulk up and play linebacker or ride the pine. Our corners are not good enough to have average or below average coverage safeties on the field.

McKenzie had an ACL tear, he will not play next year, a CB almost more than any other position is twisting and turning in every direction on every play, he has to not pnly get physically healthy in that knee, he needs to get mentally ready. Believe with an ACL tear myself the mental part is the hardest to overcome. It normally takes a player a year to get back to where they were physically before the injury.

Budsdrinker · 01-03-2008, 09:58 AM

I think Harper can turn into A Bob Sanders type player. He is not as talented as Sanders but I think he makes some pretty good hits at times. He did look bad a couple of times but for the most part he makes some good tackles. We also have to remember he was coming off of a knee injury in 06 so he should be back to 100% for 2008.

andersen · 01-03-2008, 10:42 AM

Harper gets a pass, a few good plays and he is in position most of the time. Bullocks has to go (back-up role). I would rather have old Sammy Knight back

01-01-2008, 08:12 PM	#1
QBREES9 Moderator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: New Haven Ct Posts: 23,985	Saints' defense stunk No question about it: Saints' defense stunk- NOLA.com We need to improve our defense," Payton said flatly. Start at the top, with coordinator Gary Gibbs. And either replace him, or give him a chance to change the players he's asking to perform, or the philosophy that's keeping the players he has from performing.

01-02-2008, 02:24 AM	#2
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,773	Re: Saints' defense stunk DeShazier speaks the truth. The question is whether or not Payton and Loomis have the guts to detonate the current defense and start over. SFIAH

01-02-2008, 04:16 AM	#3
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Saints' defense stunk They do not need to start over. The need key upgrades. We have a great collection of backups that fit the teams style. The problem is they are starting. But it is hard to say thats a problem. When you do upgrade the unit you have a solid rotation with plenty of playing time. Thats a good thing. except the secondary. Some simply must go
	Last edited by hagan714; 01-02-2008 at 04:18 AM..

01-02-2008, 06:28 AM	#4
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,773	Re: Saints' defense stunk Originally Posted by hagan714 They do not need to start over. The need key upgrades. That's what they supposedly did last offseason. It didn't work very well. You do know what they call trying the same thing over again but expecting a different result? We have a great collection of backups that fit the teams style. The problem is they are starting. But it is hard to say thats a problem. When you do upgrade the unit you have a solid rotation with plenty of playing time. Thats a good thing. except the secondary. Some simply must go Putting new starters out on the field is detonating the defense. Most likely the Saints need 7 new starting defensive players: DT, MLB, WLB, both corners, and both safeties. It may even be possible that we currently have those players on staff. But IMO B. Young, Simineaux, Shanlee, David, Bullocks, and probably Harper all need to be riding pine, or in the case of UFA playing somewhere else, in September 2008. Also MacKenzie isn't going to be ready until midseason, so we need someone in his spot. As for Gibbs, he needs to be let go because of his inability to adjust. When you don't have the personnel to run the defense you want to run, you adjust your defense to the personnel that you have. Also it seems obvious to many of us that many starters out there are worse than the backups. So why are they playing. When scheme and talent evaluation is that bad, then a change needs to be made. This defense cannot be tweaked. Fundamental changes in scheme, personnel, philosophy, and coaching need to be make. I see no reason to sugar coat the truth. Change it and change it now before it gets worse. SFIAH
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

01-02-2008, 07:09 AM	#5
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Saints' defense stunk I look at the unit and I agree we have few true starters but we do have more than some players that are good back ups, for now. Concentrate on starters more than back ups in FA is my only point. We got plenty of them. Stick with the one and two year contracts we have been doing, so you have an out as replacements are found. Thats all. Just do not go cut crazy. Just not yet. Spread it out over two or three years. Now the CB that a whole different story. As I look at it we have two keepers and one we are stuck with. So FA and the draft can upgrade it quickly. Read an old blog I wrote earlier this year and I go into more details on the player we have on defense. Rent A Defense - Black and Gold Forums
	"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins Last edited by hagan714; 01-02-2008 at 07:12 AM..

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01-02-2008, 11:18 PM	#6
WillMacKenzie 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,627	Re: Saints' defense stunk I think Harper is good enough to play, keep in mind he's got virtually no one helping him and it was almost just like his rookie year this year. I say give him another opportunity - as for bullocks, BYE.

01-03-2008, 04:30 AM	#7
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Saints' defense stunk Harpers and bullocks have had one full year together. Thats it. Does the play need to improve? Yes. I say give Harper a break and if Bullocks can be resigned at a good price sign him. I would like to see the both of them play under some new coaching or at least tweak the system a bit. With age of the secondary I would hate to loss any youth at this time. At one time we all praised both players.

01-03-2008, 07:46 AM	#8
WhoDatQB Boondock Saint Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: F***ing Atlanta Posts: 322	Re: Saints' defense stunk Originally Posted by hagan714 Harpers and bullocks have had one full year together. Thats it. Does the play need to improve? Yes. I say give Harper a break and if Bullocks can be resigned at a good price sign him. I would like to see the both of them play under some new coaching or at least tweak the system a bit. With age of the secondary I would hate to loss any youth at this time. At one time we all praised both players. =-===== I agree I think Harper will be a well above average safety given half the chance. However Bullocks is not good enough in coverage to be a safety. He is our Roy Williams. He needs to bulk up and play linebacker or ride the pine. Our corners are not good enough to have average or below average coverage safeties on the field. McKenzie had an ACL tear, he will not play next year, a CB almost more than any other position is twisting and turning in every direction on every play, he has to not pnly get physically healthy in that knee, he needs to get mentally ready. Believe with an ACL tear myself the mental part is the hardest to overcome. It normally takes a player a year to get back to where they were physically before the injury.

01-03-2008, 09:58 AM	#9
Budsdrinker A Cajun Transforming TX Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Woodlands, Texas Posts: 2,787	Re: Saints' defense stunk I think Harper can turn into A Bob Sanders type player. He is not as talented as Sanders but I think he makes some pretty good hits at times. He did look bad a couple of times but for the most part he makes some good tackles. We also have to remember he was coming off of a knee injury in 06 so he should be back to 100% for 2008.

01-03-2008, 10:42 AM	#10
andersen With an "E" Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Madisonville, LA Posts: 429	Re: Saints' defense stunk Harper gets a pass, a few good plays and he is in position most of the time. Bullocks has to go (back-up role). I would rather have old Sammy Knight back