Be honest with yourself.

BrooksMustGo · 02-24-2008, 11:52 AM

I think Briggs is achievable. With Briggs we would have a player who:
1. Could start immediately
2. Could produce immediately
3. Could call defensive plays
4. Would only cost us money, ie we wouldn't have to trade for him.
5. We have the cap room.
6. Briggs can shed blocks and our DT play is pretty weak.

The problems I have with Vilma are
1. He couldn't shed blocks before the injury. He won't be able to shed blocks here.
2. He's injured and he has a chronic condition. Vilma was diagnosed with osteochondritis dissecans (OCD) in high school, a bone defect that can cause instability and loose particles in the joint, and this is a possible cause behind his season-ending 2007 injury.

Jonathan Vilma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jonathan Vilma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

3. He would cost us a trade.
4. He will be looking for a big money, long term deal too.

I agree with Detillier, we need a new starter at DT, ILB and CB. I also agree with Detillier that we try to address as much as we can in free agency. Briggs makes sense. He could come in and be the face of our defense, just like Drew Brees. I'd rather totally overlook the LB position in free agency if the option is to trade for Vilma.

FireVenturi · 02-24-2008, 11:57 AM

i didnt watch many Jets games, but wasn't he the DROY? I dont know his stats that year, but I imagine to win that award he had to make a few tackles.

TheDeuce · 02-24-2008, 12:00 PM

We won't sign Briggs, because we don't make those kinds of offseason acquisitions. Like somebody said, Brees was a huge risk, which is why we were willing to go after him. That's why I think we would have a better shot at Vilma. This is not the type of player that the Saints go after in FA. I would be very surprised if we were even involved with him.

Cancer Beater · 02-24-2008, 12:50 PM

I really wish that I could talk off the record with Loomis.
I need to understand his philosophy on NEVER signing playmakers.

rjakapeanut · 02-24-2008, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by Cancer Beater

True, we did talk to Thomas and afford him a deal.
Brees signed with us only after Miami decided not to.

it's not like Brees' first choice was Miami. he went to Miami first, then was going to come to New Orleans regardless of how good it went in Miami.

not likes it relevant. what matters is that we've gone out and got impact free agents two years in a row, and now three years in a row.

Cancer Beater · 02-24-2008, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by rjakapeanut

what matters is that we've gone out and got impact free agents two years in a row, and now three years in a row.

Your right. Jaosn David was an impact player signing.
His impact was so strong on our team that it allowed us to be at home watching the playoffs.

rjakapeanut · 02-24-2008, 03:18 PM

at the time? yeah, we thought he was an impact player.

the point is that we needed a cornerback and we went out and got one. this year, we need defensive players, and guess what, we're shopping. I have 100% trust in this front office and sean payton.

Bobaganoosh · 02-24-2008, 03:38 PM

Lets not forget that Jason David was not the first choice for the Saints. They didnt start the offseason targeting Jason David. They offered 3 differenct CB's fair deals and all 3 chose to sign elsewhere. Jason David was option number 4 and it didnt work out. The Saints arent going ignore any problems and they arent going to try to skim by, but they are going to do what they think is in the best interest for the team long term.

If the Saints really believe that Samuel is a 100% shut down corner, they will offer him a dumptruck full of money...but if they think he is more of a product of their system, then they wont.

I am pretty sure that the saints feel like Briggs is going to take a step back in production with whatever team he plays with next.

iceshack149 · 02-24-2008, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by BrooksMustGo

I think Briggs is achievable. With Briggs we would have a player who:
1. Could start immediately
2. Could produce immediately
3. Could call defensive plays
4. Would only cost us money, ie we wouldn't have to trade for him.
5. We have the cap room.
6. Briggs can shed blocks and our DT play is pretty weak.

The problems I have with Vilma are
1. He couldn't shed blocks before the injury. He won't be able to shed blocks here.
2. He's injured and he has a chronic condition. Vilma was diagnosed with osteochondritis dissecans (OCD) in high school, a bone defect that can cause instability and loose particles in the joint, and this is a possible cause behind his season-ending 2007 injury. Jonathan Vilma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
3. He would cost us a trade.
4. He will be looking for a big money, long term deal too.

I agree with Detillier, we need a new starter at DT, ILB and CB. I also agree with Detillier that we try to address as much as we can in free agency. Briggs makes sense. He could come in and be the face of our defense, just like Drew Brees. I'd rather totally overlook the LB position in free agency if the option is to trade for Vilma.

Good argument, BMG. Welcome back.
Briggs is a proven talent so there is no guess work as to what kind of player he is. He would most assuredly improve this sad defense.

I'm also in agreement with peanut and Bobaganoosh. Enough already with the "Saints never try to pick up anybody good" junk. The team has proven to make efforts for quality players over the years and who of us knows what efforts they make unbeknownst to the public?

rjakapeanut · 02-24-2008, 05:22 PM

I mean seriously, I feel like writing a book on this becuase I can't emphasize it enough: this is a new regime. If you look at the FACTS, every year that Payton and his guys have been in charge here in New Orleans they've looked at the weak areas and addressed them.

02-24-2008, 11:57 AM	#12
FireVenturi Cold as Ice! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Da Big Easy Posts: 2,978	Re: Be honest with yourself. i didnt watch many Jets games, but wasn't he the DROY? I dont know his stats that year, but I imagine to win that award he had to make a few tackles.

02-24-2008, 12:00 PM	#13
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928	Re: Be honest with yourself. We won't sign Briggs, because we don't make those kinds of offseason acquisitions. Like somebody said, Brees was a huge risk, which is why we were willing to go after him. That's why I think we would have a better shot at Vilma. This is not the type of player that the Saints go after in FA. I would be very surprised if we were even involved with him.
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928

02-24-2008, 12:50 PM	#14
Cancer Beater 100th Post Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 154	Re: Be honest with yourself. I really wish that I could talk off the record with Loomis. I need to understand his philosophy on NEVER signing playmakers.
Cancer Beater 100th Post Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 154	Last edited by Cancer Beater; 02-24-2008 at 12:53 PM..

02-24-2008, 02:47 PM	#15
rjakapeanut 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 204	Re: Be honest with yourself. Originally Posted by Cancer Beater True, we did talk to Thomas and afford him a deal. Brees signed with us only after Miami decided not to. it's not like Brees' first choice was Miami. he went to Miami first, then was going to come to New Orleans regardless of how good it went in Miami. not likes it relevant. what matters is that we've gone out and got impact free agents two years in a row, and now three years in a row.
rjakapeanut 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 204

02-24-2008, 03:15 PM	#16
Cancer Beater 100th Post Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 154	Re: Be honest with yourself. Originally Posted by rjakapeanut what matters is that we've gone out and got impact free agents two years in a row, and now three years in a row. Your right. Jaosn David was an impact player signing. His impact was so strong on our team that it allowed us to be at home watching the playoffs.
Cancer Beater 100th Post Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 154

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02-24-2008, 03:18 PM	#17
rjakapeanut 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 204	Re: Be honest with yourself. at the time? yeah, we thought he was an impact player. the point is that we needed a cornerback and we went out and got one. this year, we need defensive players, and guess what, we're shopping. I have 100% trust in this front office and sean payton.
rjakapeanut 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 204

02-24-2008, 03:38 PM	#18
Bobaganoosh PorkchopExpress Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 608 Blog Entries: 2	Re: Be honest with yourself. Lets not forget that Jason David was not the first choice for the Saints. They didnt start the offseason targeting Jason David. They offered 3 differenct CB's fair deals and all 3 chose to sign elsewhere. Jason David was option number 4 and it didnt work out. The Saints arent going ignore any problems and they arent going to try to skim by, but they are going to do what they think is in the best interest for the team long term. If the Saints really believe that Samuel is a 100% shut down corner, they will offer him a dumptruck full of money...but if they think he is more of a product of their system, then they wont. I am pretty sure that the saints feel like Briggs is going to take a step back in production with whatever team he plays with next.
	It's all in the reflexes.

02-24-2008, 05:15 PM	#19
iceshack149 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fairbanks, AK Posts: 4,258 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Be honest with yourself. Originally Posted by BrooksMustGo I think Briggs is achievable. With Briggs we would have a player who: 1. Could start immediately 2. Could produce immediately 3. Could call defensive plays 4. Would only cost us money, ie we wouldn't have to trade for him. 5. We have the cap room. 6. Briggs can shed blocks and our DT play is pretty weak. The problems I have with Vilma are 1. He couldn't shed blocks before the injury. He won't be able to shed blocks here. 2. He's injured and he has a chronic condition. Vilma was diagnosed with osteochondritis dissecans (OCD) in high school, a bone defect that can cause instability and loose particles in the joint, and this is a possible cause behind his season-ending 2007 injury. Jonathan Vilma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 3. He would cost us a trade. 4. He will be looking for a big money, long term deal too. I agree with Detillier, we need a new starter at DT, ILB and CB. I also agree with Detillier that we try to address as much as we can in free agency. Briggs makes sense. He could come in and be the face of our defense, just like Drew Brees. I'd rather totally overlook the LB position in free agency if the option is to trade for Vilma. Good argument, BMG. Welcome back. Briggs is a proven talent so there is no guess work as to what kind of player he is. He would most assuredly improve this sad defense. I'm also in agreement with peanut and Bobaganoosh. Enough already with the "Saints never try to pick up anybody good" junk. The team has proven to make efforts for quality players over the years and who of us knows what efforts they make unbeknownst to the public?
	Last edited by iceshack149; 02-24-2008 at 05:19 PM..

02-24-2008, 05:22 PM	#20
rjakapeanut 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 204	Re: Be honest with yourself. I mean seriously, I feel like writing a book on this becuase I can't emphasize it enough: this is a new regime. If you look at the FACTS, every year that Payton and his guys have been in charge here in New Orleans they've looked at the weak areas and addressed them.
rjakapeanut 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 204