The Truth About Reggie
 

Since I've been coming to this site I've learned one thing about you guys, you know you're stuff. Most of the people around here are the typical football fans who make bold statements with no info to back it up. So I come here to read intelligent posts and to have intelligent debates on everything Saints. I'm in north LA and alot of people up this way say that Reggie is a bum and we should've drafted Vince Young. I know how stupid that sounds but that's the kind of thing I hear all the time. I find myself defending Reggie alot and sometimes I wonder if I'm the one who is wrong about him. Maybe he never will be a great player or even a feature back.

So my question to you all is what do really think about Reggie Bush? Will he ever be a great player? Will he ever learn how to hit the hole without dancing behind the line? Can a RB mature and break years of bad running habits? With most backs you can tell if they are a stud or not after their first year. It's obvious if a guy can run because it comes so natural to the good ones. Reggie has the skill set to be great but it seems like something is missing. So tell me the truth about Reggie. And I'm sure you guys have talked about this alot before I arrived but one more time wouldn't hurt.

Re: The Truth About Reggie
 

the only reason we debate this so much is because we used a #2 overall pick to draft him. if he was a 3rd round draft pick we'd be optimistic, but since we spent the 2nd overall on him we expect results instantly. he isn't an Adrian Peterson type back. hes a Brian Westbrook type back, and that type of back typically requires a couple season before he gets a firm grasp on things. look at Westbrook and Tiki Barber.

yeah, I think he'll be a great RB. this season or next. thats about the learning curve, lol.

Re: The Truth About Reggie
 

The truth about Reggie is that he can be a great player if used properly. I dont think he can be a great RB, but he can still be a great player. If you look at most of his big plays its when we give him the ball in space where he has enough time to use his vision and agility. I dont think Reggie will be a great between the tackles kind of guy. But im sure he can be a great player, but we need to establish a run game (that isnt Reggie) for him to be effective. Losing Deuce in the offense last year, was a big part of Reggies down year IMO

Re: The Truth About Reggie
 

I agree with peanut's comparison of wesbrook and barber. I also think he should be spread out as a receiver and on ST more.

Re: The Truth About Reggie
 

Well put. I think Reggie needs to be lined up as a WR more often to not allow the defense to key on him(and occupy one of the CB's). The bottom line, make the "D" find him and adjust every play while Duece or Colston tear up the field.

Re: The Truth About Reggie
 

Here is what I think... This theory "if he is used properly is crap". Whats great about this excuse is that people can use this excuse from now until eternity. When you are drafted that high you need to be a football player period.

With that said he is exactly what we drafted. A PR/KR who subs at RB/slot WR. If you expect great things from him, he may give you that from time to time but he isn't the guy to carry a team on his back and NEVER will. He is a roll-player.

Oh yeah and the other thing he was drafted for was to put butts in seats and sale jerseys. I'd say we got what we drafted.

Re: The Truth About Reggie
 

Euph that was pretty harsh. But I have to disagree. He isnt used properly. Payton really isnt using Reggie Bush like Westbrook or Faulk. I think he can carry a team on his back. He had 581 rushing yds in the 07 -08 season which I know isnt alot of yards but I believe if he wasnt injured his yards total would have been higher. Besides when Reggie was playing Payton called more passing plays than running plays.

Re: The Truth About Reggie
 

I think the opposite is true. He has the talent but lacks the proper skills. Great speed an agility are god given talents, knowing when slow up and allow a play to develope or when to put your head down and take 3 or 4 yards instead of losing 1st down yardage because you tried to break the long one are learned skills. If Reggie can learn the skills he'll be a great one. Otherwise he'll just be another coulda, woulda, shoulda.

Re: The Truth About Reggie
 

No way did I ever want Vince Young.. we signed Brees. that would of been awful..

Bush had a stellar first year.. and last season the entire team sucked in general.. Look for the best year for Reggie's pro life in 08'. I am predicting Pro Bowl season for Bush.

Re: The Truth About Reggie
 

It isn't harsh at all, nor am I bashing the guy. Its honest and factual. USC Reggie had some great plays but he wasn't the guy to carry the team on his back, that would have been white or a QB by the name of Leinhart. And if memory serves me correctly Vince Young was the guy who one a bowl game by taking the game into his own hands. Now before anyone says anything I am not for Vince Young being drafted either.

We got exactly what we drafted. So no problems but what becomes the problem is that people make excuses for why he is the way he is or people who call him a bust. He isn't either of those... he is exactly what he ever was, no more no less. So everyone so expect that.

Re: The Truth About Reggie
 

PRO BOWL!?!?
Based on what? As a WR? KR? RB (of which he'll split carries with because he isn't good enough to do it all by himself)?

Re: The Truth About Reggie
 

RB. compared to other players like him, the 3rd season is the charm :D. pro bowl RB Reggie Bush.

Re: The Truth About Reggie
 

A red flag with Reggie in '07 wasn't the totals, so much as it was the 3.7 ypc. That is really not good ( at all ), and showed that, right now, he's not a guy that can run effectively between the tackles as a feature back.

Reggie Bush seems to be the prototypical guy that needs to get the ball in open space to make the home run plays that he was famous for in college. Pitches, screens, etc. are the key to this kid. Once he learns a bit more, maybe he can play a more featured role, but right now I wouldn't be confident in him without a "thunder" back to his "lightning".

Re: The Truth About Reggie
 

Agreed.

I have no problems at all with Reggie except for his salary. No way we should be paying that much for a utility back. No other team ever has. In fact, utility backs are usually pretty low on the pay scale. We can still get some good seasons out of Reggie, but I doubt we will ever get our money's worth out of him.

Re: The Truth About Reggie
 

all very intelligent points.

Re: The Truth About Reggie
 

If Warrick Dunn could make a career in the NFL, I KNOW Reggie can. Dunn is 5"9, 187. Reggie is 5"11, 203. Reggie is listed at 6"0 but everyone who's seen him says he's a tad shy of 6 feet. So he's taller AND weighs more than someone who has rushed for over 10,000 yards and averages 4.1/carry over a 10 year career. He's also faster than Dunn, and a lot more shifty.

So what's the difference? Well.. Bush doesn't follow blockers as well. Those are things that can be corrected. Granted, it's taken way too long to get them corrected up until this point. Eventually, he'll get it though. Trial and error is underrated as a means of teaching people things.

If a kid touches a hot stove, he probably won't touch it again. The NFL learning curve is a little bit more complex than that - however, he has wayyyyy too much physical talent, good coaching, and determination to not "eventually" get it corrected.

I would give him another full year, maybe two as the starting RB. If he's not producing 1,200 yard + seasons by the end of 09, then you can officially call him a bust - but not yet.

Re: The Truth About Reggie
 

I have always felt that Reggie does a pretty good job when running between the tackles. It has always irked me when I see so many people say that he CANT do it. It seemed to me that every game Reggie would bust a few runs up the middle and get pretty good yardage. So I went to Yahoo's page that has situational stats on all players, and what do you know Reggie's YPC average for 2007 was 4.4 when running up the middle. I also noticed that this was up from 2006 where is YPC up the middle was at 2.6. I think for 2006 it was an actual fact that he was not effective when running between the tackles, but he actually improved in that aspect for 2007.

Link to Yahoo Situational Stats

Reggie Bush - New Orleans Saints - Situational Statistics - NFL - Yahoo! Sports

Re: The Truth About Reggie
 

...and no other team was willing to trade up to our #2 to get him because of that very reason.

Now the flip side of the coin is that we do have one of the most "gifted" and "talented" RB/WR... slot/scat..utility... "whatever he's been asked to do" players that's out there. His value is still yet to be determined and we're only going into his third year.

Re: The Truth About Reggie
 

I always read about how Reggie is incapable of running between the tackles and it irks me because it seems to me that every game Reggie hits a few runs up between the tackles and gets good yardage. It seems to me that Reggie gets in trouble when trying to bounce it out and outrun the defense. So I went to yahoo sports and checked out Reggies situational states and what do you know Reggie's highest YPC is when he runs between the tackles, up the middle in particular with a 4.4 YPC average. Between the tackles he is right at 4 YPC or 3.966666666666 YPC. As I stated above he gets in trouble when trying to go Wide Left or Wide Right where he is at 3.4 and 3.0 YPC respectively. Believe it or not Reggie has improved running between the tackles because in 2006 he only averaged 2.6 YPC when rushing up the Middle and a total YPC between the tackles of 2.966666 YPC. I linked to the situational stats below for you guys to see.

Reggie Bush - New Orleans Saints - Situational Statistics - NFL - Yahoo! Sports


Sorry this seems like a duplicate of the one below but the same message, my computer was acting up.

Re: The Truth About Reggie
 

Well I will disagree that his "value" has yet to be determine. His value is exactaly what he gets paid. He brings a lot of fan base and attention to a team that needed it at the time. His Dollar vaule is also based on seats and jerseys - not for what he does on the field only, obviously off the field as well.

Again we get exactly what we drafted and paid for.

What is funny to me is that all the expectaions people have are FALSE! He is going to be the player he was in college. All of a sudden you are going to turn him into a RB or a WR??? come one... he's exactly the same Reggie. USC - NFL, he crossed over to the same player he was and will always be, a roll player and nothing more.

Re: The Truth About Reggie
 

Role player or not at USC he was VERY productive and that is what people were looking at when he was coming out. I agree that he created excitement and is putting money in the team's pockets and I am sure that played alot into the decision to draft him along with his productivity. I really think it is too early to tell but he has not lived up to the hype but he hasn't been totally unproductive either.

Re: The Truth About Reggie
 

The Saints are still in New Orleans and I dont hear much talk of us leaving these days, hes a big reason why. If the Saints dont leave the city Id say we got our moneys worth.

Re: The Truth About Reggie
 

Why don't we start him at WR (slot)? Run him some too, but make him a receiver. Makes sense to me since he's better catching than running. Let Pierre, Stecker, and Deuce run the rock with a splash of Karney.

Re: The Truth About Reggie
 

Thats exactly what they do and when they do that people say, well they aren't using him properly.

Re: The Truth About Reggie
 

A role player is exactly what he was drafted to be. Payton saw him fitting in at multiple positions to give the defense headaches. The problem is that Reggie's been asked to fill too many roles. PR KR WR RB. And he should NEVER have been meant to be a feature back, but thanks to Deuce's injury that's where he landed.

We can all debate about whether or not he's worth the $$$ but the bottom line is that he's done everything that's been asked of him. He's played everything but defense. That's where the "value" comes from in my book.

It's true that Reggie Bush has brought more to the team and the city off the field than he has on the field. But when he's on the field he's dangerous. Plain and simple. This is the year for him.

Re: The Truth About Reggie
 

Al Bundy with the post of the day!!!

Bush will can gain 1800 all purpose yards in a season and he will still be considered a bust by the media.

Imagine that.

Re: The Truth About Reggie
 

I tend to think we agree on this topic however you contridicted yourself by agreeing he is a role player but then stated he is being asked to do to much... he is asked to play those roles... as a role player. That is what a role player does. "Play this role and make something happen"!

I do agree being the feature back was NEVER the intention nor should anyone thing that... yet they do.

Re: The Truth About Reggie
 

According to that Yahoo thing Reggies value was gaining 998 yds in 12 games. Not the focal point of an offense but good enough for 80 yds a game some of which he might have been hurt. With Reggies 73 catches and his 5.7 YPC he was not utilized correctly. Alot of those catches were thrown to him at the line of scrimage as a dump-off for Brees. I'm sure those LBs were happy to see Bush standing at the line waiting for that pass instead of running past them getting into open space.
Just like many teams in the NFL our offense is not just a one-man show. We have alot of weapons and alot of ways to spread the field and Bush greatly helps with that. If we ever get to see that play action fake to Deuce with Reggie being covered by a LB with the pass being thrown to Reggie while he is on the move it will be worth the price of admission.
I think about that pass against the Bears in the NFC championship game and they should try a play like that every game. I dont know the numbers but he has caught alot of passes in his 2 years and that has to be included like Westbrook when you look at his value. Reggie you can run him and call any pass route then have him do it that is his value.

Re: The Truth About Reggie
 

He will develop. The thing that I have not seen mentioned about Reggie is that defenses must devise schemes to limit him even last year when he had a sub par season. I think this is a big contribution to what makes our passing game even better. You must account for Bush whenever he is on the field or risk a home run play. You must commit defenders to him and in addition, defenders tend to gravitate to Reggie. This opens up room for Colston to bully around CBs and for Patten to get open. It gives Brees more time and limits the blitz schemes you can play against us. You can not afford to blitz too often and leave Reggie open in the flat. We all know he has the talent and I think he has the heart. He is still a kid and needs to learn to deal with the pressure and criticism put upon him. And most importantly, he needs to learn that he does not need to win the game by himself. He does not need to look for the big play each and every touch he has. Patience is a virtue that Reggie needs to and will learn.

Re: The Truth About Reggie
 

Why this statement is so wrong.
Reggie is so much more than a 3rd down utility back. That's insane to even say such a thing. He has proven he can be an 1500-1800 all purpose yard guy. He can get 600 running, 800 receiving and more returning kicks. Reggie problem is hype. He not the second coming... yet.

From the Saints Site.
Bush lived up to his draft billing with a memorable rookie season that was nothing short of sensational. The multitalented running back earned All-Rookie accolades after posting 1,523 total yards – 729 receiving, 565 rushing and 216 in punt returns – and scoring nine touchdowns.

Are we asking Reggie to do too much?
He's been asked to play RB, WR, HB, PR, KR and waterboy. He has a lot of hype to live up to. He was pressing too hard and trying to carry the whole team on his shoulders. He tried to take his game to the NFL instead of letting the NFL come to Reggie Bush.

Don't underestimating his value to the team.
Just by being on the field, he creates problems for the defense by exposing zones and forcing coverages, keeping defenses honest and as GREAT safety valve for Brees. Reggie Bush is maturing. The kid has amazing talent and it's just a matter of time before he hits his stride. Last year was the typical 2nd year blues. Most players take 3 years. He has just scratched the surface of his amazing talent. If you can't see that, you are not looking or blind. Besides, his true value cannot be measured in yards per game, but what he brings to the entire offense and game plan.

While he hasn't lived up to his superstar status, he has played at a very high level and you can't challenge his heart.

Were you expecting the next coming of JC?
What a difference a year makes. I learned to walk and talk in just one year.

Re: The Truth About Reggie
 

reggies going to blow up this year and when it happens, all the critics better stay off the bandwagon!

Re: The Truth About Reggie
 

Payton also mentioned that in discussions with RB Reggie Bush, he expects Bush to be a regular in this year’s program. Last season Bush split time between his West Coast home and New Orleans. News that evidently pleased Payton, “He (Reggie) is planning on being involved in all of our off-season, which is good and encouraging. I think it’s important for him and for all running backs, with the pounding they take, to be real diligent in the weight room.”

Re: The Truth About Reggie
 

Thumbs Up Reggie....

http://www.ifbb.com/contestresults/0...men/photo1.jpg

Re: The Truth About Reggie
 

http://blackandgold.com/forums/new-o...ut-2-vids.html

Check out the second vid and tell me if you think reggie was a good idea. Hell yea he was, hes not just a back or reciever or a decoy. Hes everything, all the above. Just an all around offensive weapon!!!

:crowd:

Re: The Truth About Reggie
 

i feel we do not have the power blocking off.line to properly use bush.
with true power blockers,it would be much easier for him to get loose.
the line blocking had a lot to do with marshall faulk's sucess with st. louis.
we have good pass blockers but not much in run blocking

Re: The Truth About Reggie
 

You are totally on to something here. The O-line I feel is very suspect. If it wasn't for Brees, quick release and smarts I think that O-line would be horrible.

Faine missed to many damn blocks on running plays causing Reggie to get blown up. But Faine is gone... YEAH!

Re: The Truth About Reggie
 

Okay Euph - I'm with you on all points. Let me be more clear in that I feel Reggie was thrown into a situation he wasn't ready/meant for:FEATURE BACK.

Re: The Truth About Reggie
 

If it was just that, I would be very optimistic about Reggie. Reggie is also missing something that most RB's have, and that's a little 6th sense that tells him when to duck. When Dunn was about to go down, he would duck and squirt forward and maximize his run without heavy contact. Reggie does that at times, but far too many times his run ends by a direct hit that puts him on his back. Size doesn't matter when you get hit squarely. Whether you weigh 180 or 280, it will end your career sooner rather than later. Reggie needs to learn to finish his runs before he gets killed.

Re: The Truth About Reggie
 

You guys have brought up some great points. I'm glad to see that most of you are with me and haven't given up on Reggie yet. Thanks for the feedback, now I'll use some of the points ya'll brought up and use them as my own to crush local Reggie haters.

Re: The Truth About Reggie
 

I agree with you as well "MENT". He never was a feature back and why should anyone just assume he will be. We got what we drafted a role player who can go in the game and try and make a difference at a particular position at a given time thats it.

I also thing he will bet better with a dominant line.