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thesaintsfan 03-20-2008 04:59 PM
Switching to 3-4?
 
Who would be in favor of us switching to a 3-4? If you look at our projected front seven it could work. C. Grant would be a great end in a 3-4 scheme and W. Smith would be solid. Smith could also be used as a stand up pass rusher. H. Thomas could play nose. B. Young could play DE. Fujita is versatile enough to play OLB in a 3-4. Vilma and Morgan would be the MLBs although Vilma had some problems with the Jets' 3-4 defense. Then all we would have to do is trade up and draft V. Gholston to play the other OLB and we would be set. I know it's a major stretch, but hey, it could work. Maybe if we ran a 3-4 we could get more pressure on the QB and protect our horror show of a secondary. I would love to see a LB corp of Fujita, Vilma, Morgan, and Gholston. That would be scary, while they were healthy.

rjakapeanut 03-20-2008 05:10 PM
Re: Switching to 3-4?
 
yeah no. Vilma loves the 4-3, so we keep the 4-3.

Euphoria 03-20-2008 05:32 PM
Re: Switching to 3-4?
 
As long as we have the D coordinator here we are going to be in a 4-3. I think the 3-4 will help hide our blitz packages a lot and create a lot of pressue if we had an innovative Pro D Coach. Instead he have a high school D coach stick to the basics. "Bend don't Break".

thesaintsfan 03-20-2008 05:56 PM
Re: Switching to 3-4?
 
Good point Euphoria. Our defense has to be the most basic, vanilla system in the league. When you watch our games it seems like the defense doesn't do anything. They just sit back and let the other team's offense dictate. And why do we run so much man coverage? Usually the teams that run alot of man do so because they have good corners and a good pass rush. They can afford to have CBs on an island because the opposing QB isn't going to have time to pick them apart. We aren't the Eagles or the Ravens, we don't have good corners and we don't put a ton of pressure on QBs. So why do they put the CBs in a no win situation? I think a real D coordinator would do alot more with the talent we do have on defense by devising a scheme that plays to our strengths, not our weaknesses.

WVSaint 03-20-2008 06:30 PM
Re: Switching to 3-4?
 
switching to a 3-4 would make the vilma acquisition completely pointless

thesaintsfan 03-20-2008 07:36 PM
Re: Switching to 3-4?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WVSaint (Post 158805)
switching to a 3-4 would make the vilma acquisition completely pointless
Just because Vilma wasn't the greatest fit for the 3-4 in N.Y. doesn't mean that he just can't play in that defense. I think a truly great LB can play in any scheme. It's like people think the guy was just awful in the 3-4 and he wasn't. He had played in a 4-3 his whole career so it was taking him some time to adjust. Also he wasn't at 100% last season. I think he would've been just fine had he stayed in N.Y. If he was so terrible in the 3-4 then why are Jets fans mad as hell that he was traded? Another thing to think about is the fact that N.Y. didn't have a true nose tackle in front of him.

rjakapeanut 03-20-2008 07:40 PM
Re: Switching to 3-4?
 
same reason we'd be mad if Deuce was traded/cut. Deuce isn't a very good RB. sorry to say. he's past his prime and has had a ton of injuries. he can put together a couple solid seasons but he's not going to any pro bowls.

its not just about how good of a player that player is, if hes a fan favorite he's a fan favorite lol. the jets fans being mad that Vilma was traded has nothign to do with how good or bad he was in a 3-4 defense.

3-4 would be bad because we have undersized LBs, period.

saints1234 03-20-2008 07:48 PM
Re: Switching to 3-4?
 
thats the dumbest thing i have ever heard of since they said that jason david was going to start.

hagan714 03-20-2008 07:49 PM
Re: Switching to 3-4?
 
NT is the first thing that comes to mind.
The fact that Gibbs and most of his staff have plenty of experience at the 34 is not enough. Right now we do not have the personnel to do the switch.

lynwood 03-20-2008 08:26 PM
Re: Switching to 3-4?
 
If we truly had the talent I'd say play a game in the 3-4 and play another in the 4-3. Depending on the other teams offense.

MatthewT 03-20-2008 09:54 PM
Re: Switching to 3-4?
 
I wouldn't mind seeing the Saints try some 3-4 formations as a change of pace, but I do not think the roster is built for it as a base formation. I just hope with the additions brought in, the Saints can hopefully implement better game plans that actually attack opposing offenses instead of just trying to hold them back a couple times here and there. Imagine the difference it could make if the Saints could employ more aggressiveness and create more turnovers. The additions made on defense can actually start to get them thinking that way for a change. Lets hope the draft brings us some more nice additions!!!

thesaintsfan 03-20-2008 09:59 PM
Re: Switching to 3-4?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hagan714 (Post 158815)
NT is the first thing that comes to mind.
The fact that Gibbs and most of his staff have plenty of experience at the 34 is not enough. Right now we do not have the personnel to do the switch.
I realize that we don't have the perfect personnel for a 3-4 but we have some of the pieces in place. If a team has been running a 4-3 well then of course they will have to add some players to make the transistion work. Call me stupid or crazy but I think it would work. Teams in the NFC don't see very many 3-4 looks so maybe the confusion would give us an edge to offset our lack of talent in the secondary. I just want to see our D do more to confuse teams. Maybe we could throw a 3-4 front out a few times a game.

RockyMountainSaint 03-20-2008 10:00 PM
Re: Switching to 3-4?
 
What is the point of this thread?

If folks really believe we can effectively run a 3-4 with our current personnel they are nuts. The 3-4 in today's NFL environment is the most difficult to establish and then maintain of all defensive schemes.
Do you really want us to sacrifice 2-4 yrs to hatch this (insane) idea?
Or are you really so deluded (or bored with the offseason) as to suggest that we have the ideal 3-4 personnel in house as we speak?
'08 Saints= Dome Patrol?
Please see your therapist.

LordOfEntropy 03-20-2008 11:15 PM
Re: Switching to 3-4?
 
I don't think a 3-4 would work. We need more, and better, LB's to take that one on. We don't have Sam Mills around here anymore. Nor do I think Grant would do well in that scenario.

HUSKER 03-20-2008 11:36 PM
Re: Switching to 3-4?
 
Maybe we can stop talking about changing from a 4-3 to a 3-4 which is stupid since we just got Vilma who hates it and a bunch of so-so lbs and just try to blitz more than a couple times a game.

RockyMountainSaint 03-20-2008 11:47 PM
Re: Switching to 3-4?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HUSKER (Post 158850)
Maybe we can stop talking about changing from a 4-3 to a 3-4 which is stupid since we just got Vilma who hates it and a bunch of so-so lbs and just try to blitz more than a couple times a game.
See?
I was trying to be diplomatic about this thread.
All it took was for Husker to distill all of the P-C posts to this.
Thank You Husker.

RMS

WhoDat205 03-21-2008 08:13 AM
Re: Switching to 3-4?
 
Pre-Vilma it could have happened with a few moves. That would have been the right time for that as well. We had holes all over the D, so that would have been the time for a personell shift.

Vilma wanted to get away from the 3-4. He says that in every interview you see. Plus they signed McCray, who more of a 4-3 style DE. He's a little too big to be a 3-4 OLB and a little small for the DE.

lsutigerfan 03-21-2008 08:29 AM
Re: Switching to 3-4?
 
This is the reason Vilma wanted out of New York if we did that he would be asking out of New Orleans at the end of the season.

WhoDat205 03-21-2008 09:06 AM
Re: Switching to 3-4?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by saintsmissile (Post 158869)
You know, as much as I want defense, the only player on offense I would even consider taking with the 10th pick would be a rb. If McFadden would drop I don't see how you can't pick him. This kid is a home run hitter. Putting him together with a rb rotation of Reggie and Pierre Thomas you'd have one hell of a trio.
I would consider an OT (Long, Clady), too. But otherwise I agree.

papz 03-21-2008 10:25 AM
Re: Switching to 3-4?
 
For such a weak offensive lineman class, there's 4 offensive tackles graded out to be first rounders. Jake Long, Jeff Otah, Chris Williams, and Ryan Clady. Branden Albert and Chilo Rachal also have late first to mid second round grades. Yes... that's very weak.

It also shows how much you know about Boise State if you consider them a one dimensional pass happy offense.

Ryan Clady - Boise State

At least try to know what you're talking about.

Euphoria 03-21-2008 10:27 AM
Re: Switching to 3-4?
 
OT or WR

Tobias-Reiper 03-21-2008 10:42 AM
Re: Switching to 3-4?
 
.. re: switching to the 3-4 I would ask:
1.- Why?
2.- How does a 3-4 makes these Saints better than a 4-3?

... guess right now everyone is enamoured with the 3-4 because of the Giants.. just like every year, everyone falls in love with the SB winner's scheme.

pakowitz 03-21-2008 11:21 AM
Re: Switching to 3-4?
 
LoL.. u amaze me at how u try to spin things... all ur stats show is that boise st was pretty good at running and passing the ball...

184.92 ypg rushing to 282.46 ypg passing... those are both pretty good numbers for any college...

heres what else u left off... the opposition saw him produce 122 knockdowns, 21 touchdown-resulting blocks and eight blocks downfield to finish with an 85.77% grade for blocking consistency…Graded at least 90% in five contests. Named second-team All-America by SI.com…Named first-team All-WAC…Started all 13 games at left tackle in '06. Named first-team Freshman All-America by ESPN.com, second-team Freshman All-America by Rivals.com and CollegeFootballNews.com and third-team Freshman All-America by The Sporting News

papz 03-21-2008 11:26 AM
Re: Switching to 3-4?
 
Addressed via pm.
Quote:
ESPN Insider
Updated: February 14, 2008
Comment

Draft prospects like OT Jake Long make scouting look easy. Long was the top offensive lineman on our initial top 32 list back in August, is the top offensive lineman on our board today and will be the top offensive lineman selected in April's draft. Thankfully for my job security, very few college players are as consistently dominant.


Long is not as athletic as last year's top tackle prospect, Joe Thomas, who excelled at left tackle for the Cleveland Browns as a rookie in 2007. However, Long has more than enough range to play left tackle in the NFL, and he is bigger, stronger and more physical than Thomas was coming out of Wisconsin. Long grades out slightly lower than Thomas, who went at No. 3 overall last year, but Long could come off the board earlier in what projects to be a weaker overall class.

Ryan Clady is the only other lineman that projects as a top-15 pick. An early entry, Clady displays tremendous feet for his massive frame. As it stands right now, Chris Williams, Jeff Otah, Gosder Cherilus and Sam Baker are the four other tackles jockeying for consideration in the bottom half of the first round. Baker began the season not too far behind Long, but an injury-riddled senior campaign and a lackluster showing at the Senior Bowl have considerably damaged his stock.

The annual draft trend is for one guard to sneak into the first round. Logan Mankins (Patriots, 2005), Davin Joseph (Buccaneers, 2006) and Ben Grubbs (Ravens, 2007) were the past three guards to hear their names called in the opening round, and Branden Albert is the top candidate in the 2008 class. Albert and Chilo Rachal are the lone underclass additions at guard. It's no coincidence Albert and Rachal are expected to be the first two guards selected in the upcoming draft.

Of the 48 offensive linemen invited to this year's combine, 34 spent the majority of their collegiate careers at the tackle position. While that percentage seems unusually large, I project at least 11 of those college tackles will move inside to guard in the NFL. That group includes Heath Benedict, Mike McGlynn, Eric Young and Drew Radovich, who started on the same line as Rachal at USC last season.

Benedict, who starred at offensive tackle for the Newberry Indians, is one of the top small-school prospects in the 2008 draft class. The Division II product should come off the board early on Day 2 but likely will make the move inside to guard, where he can be better protected in the NFL. Other small-school prospects to look out for in the later rounds include OG Chad Rinehart (Northern Iowa), OT Demetrius Bell (Northwestern State), OG Kerry Brown (Appalachian State), OT David Hale (Weber State) and OG Mackenzy Bernadeau (Bentley).

Finally, Mike Pollak, Steven Justice and John Sullivan are the best available players in a relatively weak class of centers. Pollak and Justice are best suited to play in zone-blocking schemes in which they can use outstanding mobility and technique to overcome subpar size and strength. On the flipside, Sullivan is battle-tested with enough size, initial quickness and power to emerge as a starter at the next level. However, he lacks ideal athleticism for the center position, which is why the Notre Dame standout likely will slip to the middle rounds.
20 something in passing and 30 something in rushing... if that doesn't screamed balanced offense then I'm crazy.

papz 03-21-2008 11:37 AM
Re: Switching to 3-4?
 
Quote:
Ask yourself this, knowing this is not a very top heavy draft for Offensive lineman, would Clady be in even the first round if it not for such a weak O lineman group?
False statement.

Quote:
It is my assumption that Clady will be nothing more than a second teamer in the pros due to his inability to drive block in the run game.
So I'm guessing our ProBowl left tackle is a second teamer also... if that makes sense.

thesaintsfan 03-21-2008 03:52 PM
Re: Switching to 3-4?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockyMountainSaint (Post 158832)
What is the point of this thread?

If folks really believe we can effectively run a 3-4 with our current personnel they are nuts. The 3-4 in today's NFL environment is the most difficult to establish and then maintain of all defensive schemes.
Do you really want us to sacrifice 2-4 yrs to hatch this (insane) idea?
Or are you really so deluded (or bored with the offseason) as to suggest that we have the ideal 3-4 personnel in house as we speak?
'08 Saints= Dome Patrol?
Please see your therapist.
I'll see my therapist if you get a life. Tone it down a little guy, it's just a message board. Message boards are for talking about crazy ideas.

triman 03-21-2008 04:10 PM
Re: Switching to 3-4?
 
You can draw up all the Xs and Os Change schemes ETC.... It comes down to having the horses to fit the scheme . We need more talent on defense

WillMacKenzie 03-21-2008 09:08 PM
Re: Switching to 3-4?
 
i'm thinking no 3-4

stay with the 4-3.

Giants beat up the Patriots didn't they?

Euphoria 03-21-2008 10:07 PM
Re: Switching to 3-4?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by triman (Post 158910)
You can draw up all the Xs and Os Change schemes ETC.... It comes down to having the horses to fit the scheme . We need more talent on defense
Sometimes good coaches get the most out of their players... so its a mute point. You can have all the talent in the world but if you D coach doesn't know what to do with it... it really doesn't matter.

pakowitz 03-22-2008 12:26 AM
Re: Switching to 3-4?
 
Enough Of The Attacks You Two....

thesaintsfan 03-22-2008 01:47 AM
Re: Switching to 3-4?
 
It looks like most of ya'll are against any change in our defensive scheme. But I ask you this, could a change in our scheme make our defense any worse? It's not like this is a if it ain't broke don't fix it situation. Many of you have stated that we don't have the proper personel, of course we don't because we've been running a 4-3. But neither did the Pats, Cowboys, Chargers, etc. They had to add the pieces just like we would have to. You have to start somewhere. I admit that it wouldn't be wise to have a base 3-4 this year given our current roster but we could gradually incorparate it in to our packages while adding the players to make the switch. Why is it so crazy to want our team to have a more complex, attacking defense? I watch the Chargers, Cowboys, Chargers, and the other teams who have complex defenses and ask myself why can't we be like them? If they can do it why can't we?

RockyMountainSaint 03-22-2008 02:37 AM
Re: Switching to 3-4?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper (Post 158894)
.. re: switching to the 3-4 I would ask:
1.- Why?
2.- How does a 3-4 makes these Saints better than a 4-3?

... guess right now everyone is enamoured with the 3-4 because of the Giants.. just like every year, everyone falls in love with the SB winner's scheme.
T-R,
I have long respected your posts.

Another Bullseye.

RMS

HUSKER 03-22-2008 02:44 AM
Re: Switching to 3-4?
 
I have to say it hasn't helped the Chargers or the Cowboys in the play-offs.

RockyMountainSaint 03-22-2008 02:50 AM
Re: Switching to 3-4?
 
I'm out Pak.
This thread is all about (me included) frustration with the unknown.
Also. Frustration with the decisions made at this time of year.

Faith!

RockyMountainSaint 03-22-2008 02:54 AM
Re: Switching to 3-4?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HUSKER (Post 158950)
I have to say it hasn't helped the Chargers or the Cowboys in the play-offs.
The truth is written above.

RMS

HUSKER 03-22-2008 02:57 AM
Re: Switching to 3-4?
 
I have total respect for you rocky mountain saint and your beliefs on 3-4 compared to 4-3.


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