Saints Offer J. Brown for #2 update on pg 19!!!

BRSaintsFan · 04-22-2008, 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

What 18 guys would you consider quality starters?!? I see maybe half that number...

The argument is still made that their is significant talent in all rounds and it's putting together a total draft not just R1 picks that make a championship TEAM...

Pats, Giants, Colts, look at their drafts and it's not just R1 picks that made their teams...

And suppose, given his injury history, Dorsey goes down, who do you have to step up or pick up their game from their position?!?

(Added)

And in '03, didn't we move up to get "Can't Miss" Johnathan Sullivan when we could have had Troy Polamalu, Calvin Pace, Dallas Clark, Nnamdi Asomugha with later R1 picks?!?

Again, too many people want to put Dorsey in a Wedding Dress (Rickey Williams Syndrome)

If Dorsey goes down, you have the same DTs from last season. If you wait and draft a DT in the 2nd round and they go down, you have the same DTs from last season. Your point??

And who ever labeled Jonathan Sullivan as a cant miss prospect. Few people even had him ranked in the top 5 DTs coming out that year (Robertson, Jimmy Kennedy, William Joseph, Kevin Williams, Ty Warren)

And what sort of football sense are you using to equate Dorsey to Sullivan?

Dorsey - Strong, powerful, plays with good leverage
Sullivan - Despite his size, plays too high and without proper leverage

Dorsey - Hard worker, extremely active, non stop motor
Sullivan - History of being labeled as lazy and takes plays off

Dorsey - Agile and changes direction quickly
Sullivan - HAHAHAHAHA

Dorsey - Very experienced, 4 years as a regular sub or starter
Sullivan - 1 year wonder

jeanpierre · 04-23-2008, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by BRSaintsFan

If Dorsey goes down, you have the same DTs from last season. If you wait and draft a DT in the 2nd round and they go down, you have the same DTs from last season. Your point??

And who ever labeled Jonathan Sullivan as a cant miss prospect. Few people even had him ranked in the top 5 DTs coming out that year (Robertson, Jimmy Kennedy, William Joseph, Kevin Williams, Ty Warren)

And what sort of football sense are you using to equate Dorsey to Sullivan?

Dorsey - Strong, powerful, plays with good leverage
Sullivan - Despite his size, plays too high and without proper leverage

Dorsey - Hard worker, extremely active, non stop motor
Sullivan - History of being labeled as lazy and takes plays off

Dorsey - Agile and changes direction quickly
Sullivan - HAHAHAHAHA

Dorsey - Very experienced, 4 years as a regular sub or starter
Sullivan - 1 year wonder

The logic is this: Dorsey has a significant, documented injury history with multiple problems; while most any player can be injured at any given time, Dorsey's injury history should give pause for concern.

Consider, you would be giving multiple picks up for a guy that has already missed playing time at the collegiate level.

While I appreciate Dorsey's Man-Up Effort to play hurt (probably why he was my favorite LSU player this past season), the fact is...

Once the Big Mo gets in the picture and the "man has made it", most pro players tend to go 'Roger Dorn'...

Money is spent, Picks are Gone, and you have a guy with a lot of potential eating at the buffet bar instead of terrorizing the opposition...

To respond to another inquiry...their is significant value this year in several rounds for DT...

The Saints can draft more than one DT which would give depth at a position that requires heavy rotation for the heavy guys...

The Packers employed this philosophy with great success this past season and it took them to the NFC title game...

I like Dorsey and I hope he has a great NFL career, but giving up picks for one player is a huge risk; as one blogger posted, to paraphrase, if the Saints are truly on the cusp and need depth to spell starters and get through a long season, you need younger players to energize the veteran's play and leadership...

BRSaintsFan · 04-23-2008, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

The logic is this: Dorsey has a significant, documented injury history with multiple problems; while most any player can be injured at any given time, Dorsey's injury history should give pause for concern.

Consider, you would be giving multiple picks up for a guy that has already missed playing time at the collegiate level.

While I appreciate Dorsey's Man-Up Effort to play hurt (probably why he was my favorite LSU player this past season), the fact is...

Once the Big Mo gets in the picture and the "man has made it", most pro players tend to go 'Roger Dorn'...

Money is spent, Picks are Gone, and you have a guy with a lot of potential eating at the buffet bar instead of terrorizing the opposition...

To respond to another inquiry...their is significant value this year in several rounds for DT...

The Saints can draft more than one DT which would give depth at a position that requires heavy rotation for the heavy guys...

The Packers employed this philosophy with great success this past season and it took them to the NFC title game...

I like Dorsey and I hope he has a great NFL career, but giving up picks for one player is a huge risk; as one blogger posted, to paraphrase, if the Saints are truly on the cusp and need depth to spell starters and get through a long season, you need younger players to energize the veteran's play and leadership...

Dorsey's injury history is poppycock. The injury history is inflated because the media must find a flaw in every prospect. The media is concerned about Dorsey's injury history, but all teams that interviewed Dorsey have checked out his health much more thoroughly than the media or you and I and have deemed him healthly without any concern. Otherwise, if his injury risk is as prominent as you seem to think, there would not be a need to trade up to 2 and get him as he would be tumbling down teams' draft boards and would fall in your lap at 10.

As for money getting to a DT and him letting go of his weight, someone like Jonathan Sullivan who was NEVER considered to have a great passion for the game, a high motor, and took plays off would be easily affected by a fat check. But if Dorsey is in that same character, then why in hell would he play hurt through the pain last season and risk further injury when he could very simply take the rest of the season off and still get paid. Because he has a high motor, great character, great leadership, and a love of the game.

The depth at DT after Ellis and Dorsey is questionable at best. In another draft, these two IMO would still be ahead of the rest, but guys like Balmer and Laws wouldnt even sniff the first day.

I will agree with you that Saints are on the cusp but more than just depth and a young influx of players is need to take them to that point. They need an impact player on the interior of the line - an IMPACT player, not someone who can spell Hollis Thomas from time to time. And by adding Dorsey, you do get a favorable rotation on the line (Dorsey, Thomas, Young, McCray, Grant, and Smith) that can be used in different situations.

pakowitz · 04-23-2008, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

The logic is this: Dorsey has a significant, documented injury history with multiple problems; while most any player can be injured at any given time, Dorsey's injury history should give pause for concern.

Consider, you would be giving multiple picks up for a guy that has already missed playing time at the collegiate level.

While I appreciate Dorsey's Man-Up Effort to play hurt (probably why he was my favorite LSU player this past season), the fact is...

Once the Big Mo gets in the picture and the "man has made it", most pro players tend to go 'Roger Dorn'...

Money is spent, Picks are Gone, and you have a guy with a lot of potential eating at the buffet bar instead of terrorizing the opposition...

To respond to another inquiry...their is significant value this year in several rounds for DT...

The Saints can draft more than one DT which would give depth at a position that requires heavy rotation for the heavy guys...

The Packers employed this philosophy with great success this past season and it took them to the NFC title game...

I like Dorsey and I hope he has a great NFL career, but giving up picks for one player is a huge risk; as one blogger posted, to paraphrase, if the Saints are truly on the cusp and need depth to spell starters and get through a long season, you need younger players to energize the veteran's play and leadership...

1. Dorsey has NEVER missed a game in college due to injury...

2. If you think that Dorsey is going to go "Roger Dorn" then you dont know Glenn Dorsey..

3. The potential between Dorsey, Ellis, and the rest is huge.. there is no way you could make a case as to any of the other DTs..

4. Dorsey wouldnt be there to spell the starters.. he would be there to START.. bryan young would be the backup DT and thats where he should be... he doesnt have the ability to be a fulltime starter and its one of the reasons we are lacking in the middle...

04-22-2008, 10:50 PM	#1
BRSaintsFan 100th Post Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 449	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2 or #3!!! update on p Originally Posted by jeanpierre What 18 guys would you consider quality starters?!? I see maybe half that number... The argument is still made that their is significant talent in all rounds and it's putting together a total draft not just R1 picks that make a championship TEAM... Pats, Giants, Colts, look at their drafts and it's not just R1 picks that made their teams... And suppose, given his injury history, Dorsey goes down, who do you have to step up or pick up their game from their position?!? (Added) And in '03, didn't we move up to get "Can't Miss" Johnathan Sullivan when we could have had Troy Polamalu, Calvin Pace, Dallas Clark, Nnamdi Asomugha with later R1 picks?!? Again, too many people want to put Dorsey in a Wedding Dress (Rickey Williams Syndrome) If Dorsey goes down, you have the same DTs from last season. If you wait and draft a DT in the 2nd round and they go down, you have the same DTs from last season. Your point?? And who ever labeled Jonathan Sullivan as a cant miss prospect. Few people even had him ranked in the top 5 DTs coming out that year (Robertson, Jimmy Kennedy, William Joseph, Kevin Williams, Ty Warren) And what sort of football sense are you using to equate Dorsey to Sullivan? Dorsey - Strong, powerful, plays with good leverage Sullivan - Despite his size, plays too high and without proper leverage Dorsey - Hard worker, extremely active, non stop motor Sullivan - History of being labeled as lazy and takes plays off Dorsey - Agile and changes direction quickly Sullivan - HAHAHAHAHA Dorsey - Very experienced, 4 years as a regular sub or starter Sullivan - 1 year wonder

04-23-2008, 08:18 AM	#2
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2 or #3!!! update on p Originally Posted by BRSaintsFan If Dorsey goes down, you have the same DTs from last season. If you wait and draft a DT in the 2nd round and they go down, you have the same DTs from last season. Your point?? And who ever labeled Jonathan Sullivan as a cant miss prospect. Few people even had him ranked in the top 5 DTs coming out that year (Robertson, Jimmy Kennedy, William Joseph, Kevin Williams, Ty Warren) And what sort of football sense are you using to equate Dorsey to Sullivan? Dorsey - Strong, powerful, plays with good leverage Sullivan - Despite his size, plays too high and without proper leverage Dorsey - Hard worker, extremely active, non stop motor Sullivan - History of being labeled as lazy and takes plays off Dorsey - Agile and changes direction quickly Sullivan - HAHAHAHAHA Dorsey - Very experienced, 4 years as a regular sub or starter Sullivan - 1 year wonder The logic is this: Dorsey has a significant, documented injury history with multiple problems; while most any player can be injured at any given time, Dorsey's injury history should give pause for concern. Consider, you would be giving multiple picks up for a guy that has already missed playing time at the collegiate level. While I appreciate Dorsey's Man-Up Effort to play hurt (probably why he was my favorite LSU player this past season), the fact is... Once the Big Mo gets in the picture and the "man has made it", most pro players tend to go 'Roger Dorn'... Money is spent, Picks are Gone, and you have a guy with a lot of potential eating at the buffet bar instead of terrorizing the opposition... To respond to another inquiry...their is significant value this year in several rounds for DT... The Saints can draft more than one DT which would give depth at a position that requires heavy rotation for the heavy guys... The Packers employed this philosophy with great success this past season and it took them to the NFC title game... I like Dorsey and I hope he has a great NFL career, but giving up picks for one player is a huge risk; as one blogger posted, to paraphrase, if the Saints are truly on the cusp and need depth to spell starters and get through a long season, you need younger players to energize the veteran's play and leadership...
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

04-23-2008, 09:17 AM	#3
BRSaintsFan 100th Post Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 449	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2 or #3!!! update on p Originally Posted by jeanpierre The logic is this: Dorsey has a significant, documented injury history with multiple problems; while most any player can be injured at any given time, Dorsey's injury history should give pause for concern. Consider, you would be giving multiple picks up for a guy that has already missed playing time at the collegiate level. While I appreciate Dorsey's Man-Up Effort to play hurt (probably why he was my favorite LSU player this past season), the fact is... Once the Big Mo gets in the picture and the "man has made it", most pro players tend to go 'Roger Dorn'... Money is spent, Picks are Gone, and you have a guy with a lot of potential eating at the buffet bar instead of terrorizing the opposition... To respond to another inquiry...their is significant value this year in several rounds for DT... The Saints can draft more than one DT which would give depth at a position that requires heavy rotation for the heavy guys... The Packers employed this philosophy with great success this past season and it took them to the NFC title game... I like Dorsey and I hope he has a great NFL career, but giving up picks for one player is a huge risk; as one blogger posted, to paraphrase, if the Saints are truly on the cusp and need depth to spell starters and get through a long season, you need younger players to energize the veteran's play and leadership... Dorsey's injury history is poppycock. The injury history is inflated because the media must find a flaw in every prospect. The media is concerned about Dorsey's injury history, but all teams that interviewed Dorsey have checked out his health much more thoroughly than the media or you and I and have deemed him healthly without any concern. Otherwise, if his injury risk is as prominent as you seem to think, there would not be a need to trade up to 2 and get him as he would be tumbling down teams' draft boards and would fall in your lap at 10. As for money getting to a DT and him letting go of his weight, someone like Jonathan Sullivan who was NEVER considered to have a great passion for the game, a high motor, and took plays off would be easily affected by a fat check. But if Dorsey is in that same character, then why in hell would he play hurt through the pain last season and risk further injury when he could very simply take the rest of the season off and still get paid. Because he has a high motor, great character, great leadership, and a love of the game. The depth at DT after Ellis and Dorsey is questionable at best. In another draft, these two IMO would still be ahead of the rest, but guys like Balmer and Laws wouldnt even sniff the first day. I will agree with you that Saints are on the cusp but more than just depth and a young influx of players is need to take them to that point. They need an impact player on the interior of the line - an IMPACT player, not someone who can spell Hollis Thomas from time to time. And by adding Dorsey, you do get a favorable rotation on the line (Dorsey, Thomas, Young, McCray, Grant, and Smith) that can be used in different situations.

04-23-2008, 02:56 PM	#4
pakowitz The Dark Overlord Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,450	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2 or #3!!! update on p Originally Posted by jeanpierre The logic is this: Dorsey has a significant, documented injury history with multiple problems; while most any player can be injured at any given time, Dorsey's injury history should give pause for concern. Consider, you would be giving multiple picks up for a guy that has already missed playing time at the collegiate level. While I appreciate Dorsey's Man-Up Effort to play hurt (probably why he was my favorite LSU player this past season), the fact is... Once the Big Mo gets in the picture and the "man has made it", most pro players tend to go 'Roger Dorn'... Money is spent, Picks are Gone, and you have a guy with a lot of potential eating at the buffet bar instead of terrorizing the opposition... To respond to another inquiry...their is significant value this year in several rounds for DT... The Saints can draft more than one DT which would give depth at a position that requires heavy rotation for the heavy guys... The Packers employed this philosophy with great success this past season and it took them to the NFC title game... I like Dorsey and I hope he has a great NFL career, but giving up picks for one player is a huge risk; as one blogger posted, to paraphrase, if the Saints are truly on the cusp and need depth to spell starters and get through a long season, you need younger players to energize the veteran's play and leadership... 1. Dorsey has NEVER missed a game in college due to injury... 2. If you think that Dorsey is going to go "Roger Dorn" then you dont know Glenn Dorsey.. 3. The potential between Dorsey, Ellis, and the rest is huge.. there is no way you could make a case as to any of the other DTs.. 4. Dorsey wouldnt be there to spell the starters.. he would be there to START.. bryan young would be the backup DT and thats where he should be... he doesnt have the ability to be a fulltime starter and its one of the reasons we are lacking in the middle...
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