Has disappointment set in?

WVSaint · 04-26-2008, 08:35 PM

no one is coming at you canton. ive been posting on this board for a long time and reading it for even longer. it looks like youre new to the board and thats cool, but no one is coming at you. you asked our opinion and w're giving it, most just happen to disagree with you. we are all passionate and opinionated about the saints. so dont take any of it personally.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 04-26-2008, 09:13 PM

Originally Posted by CantonLegend

its easy to say im wrong but its based on facts....the fact is...there are no colstons in this draft....the fact is....porter is speedy but will not play on D....the fact is ellis is great yes....but the fact is....we sacrificed our secondary yet again....our secondary has improved this offseason no doubt....but thats like being the tallest midget....its not going to secure ne thing for us....sure nobody will run against us...but guess what...they didnt have to last year cuz we were getting beat over our heads....its not going to change

I know I'm late to this party.

Marcellus Wiley, former pro bowl defensive end and current ESPN analyst made this observation this week:

It's hard for a QB to complete a pass from his back.

That's what Ellis is going to do for us next season. An athletic DT is going to push the pocket and create opportunities for the ends to get to the QB. Hurries and sacks will make opposing QBs rush passes. There will be less balls going over the secondary's head.

Sacks will be up. Opposing teams YPC and completion percentage will be down, and yes the run game will be better too.

I see a defense jumping from 26th into the low teens, maybe even into the top 10.

It will be a sight to behold.

If you want to see what I'm talking about go and take a peek at the pass defense for Denver and San Francisco last year. Each spent a ton of money on top flight secondaries.

Today's draft was wonderful.

SFIAH

winmill1 · 04-26-2008, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

I know I'm late to this party.

Marcellus Wiley, former pro bowl defensive end and current ESPN analyst made this observation this week:

That's what Ellis is going to do for us next season. An athletic DT is going to push the pocket and create opportunities for the ends to get to the QB. Hurries and sacks will make opposing QBs rush passes. There will be less balls going over the secondary's head.

Sacks will be up. Opposing teams YPC and completion percentage will be down, and yes the run game will be better too.

I see a defense jumping from 26th into the low teens, maybe even into the top 10.

It will be a sight to behold.

If you want to see what I'm talking about go and take a peek at the pass defense for Denver and San Francisco last year. Each spent a ton of money on top flight secondaries.

Today's draft was wonderful.

SFIAH

yep. look at the giant's secondary-very vanila and average, but their defensive line-fast and strong=average secondary is made above average by good d line.

lsutigerfan · 04-26-2008, 08:13 PM

Just Ellis alone is going to make our CB situation much better this kid can cover so he's not a very good tackeler nor was Deon Sanders and if he was a better tackeler he's probably a first rounder.

winmill1 · 04-26-2008, 08:14 PM

while i think that ellis was a great pickup for only a 3rd rounder and our 1st rounder....i hate that the saints did not trade up to get brandon flowers who i really think would compliment our defensive backs a lot better....i think that we were holding on to the shockey trade for too long....i thought for a second we might miss our pick...i think it got down to 24 seconds or so....i think they wanted shockey....and after a week of the hype...i kinda wanted us to get him too....i like our 2nd pick but i think that had we known shockey wouldnt be traded to us we might have tried to move up and get brandon flowers

canton i copied this from another thread that you posted-on this post you say you like our 2nd round pick, so let me ask you what changed so drastically in 10 minutes.

CantonLegend · 04-26-2008, 08:17 PM

while i like his ability....i've thought about our secondary....he doesnt help us at all...i've asked this a lot so far and nobody has answered me.....who is he going to start over?....we could've had flowers who would start for us on nickel downs....but now we have a CB who very possibly may not see a down this year

Bobaganoosh · 04-26-2008, 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by CantonLegend

while i like his ability....i've thought about our secondary....he doesnt help us at all...i've asked this a lot so far and nobody has answered me.....who is he going to start over?....we could've had flowers who would start for us on nickel downs....but now we have a CB who very possibly may not see a down this year

I completely disagree. There was no chance Flowers would have come in and been our nickle CB. McKenzie, Young, David, and Gay are going to be our top 4 and that wouldnt change regardless of who we drafted. Porter will be on the field this year, he will return some kicks, and he can run with anyone in the league. He is similar to Young in ability, but he is further along in development and he is a bit faster. he can run with Galloway and Smith and he will help out here and there this year, but you have to think long term when it comes to draft picks man. That is what you are missing. Its not always about what the give you on day 1, but what they give you by midseason, or when someone goes down, or by year 2...and that fact is especially true when it comes to Cb's.

You wanted to trade up for Flowers...ok, by giving up what? We dont have anything to give...no 3rd, no 4th...you want to come away from this draft with only 2 players?

D_it_up · 04-26-2008, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by CantonLegend

i've asked this a lot so far and nobody has answered me.....who is he going to start over?....we could've had flowers who would start for us on nickel downs....but now we have a CB who very possibly may not see a down this year

Who could this guy NOT start over this season? McKenzie is coming off of knee surgery, the smoke still hasn't settled off of David from all the times he was burned, Young obviously hasn't shown enough to warrant much PT. Gay could end up being a good pick-up, or he could be another David-type pick-up. Craft? Thomas? I don't even have to bother with those two, because they are too easy. I'm not saying that he is going to be a starter, but he has just as much chance as anyone right now.

winmill1 · 04-26-2008, 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by CantonLegend

while i like his ability....i've thought about our secondary....he doesnt help us at all...i've asked this a lot so far and nobody has answered me.....who is he going to start over?....we could've had flowers who would start for us on nickel downs....but now we have a CB who very possibly may not see a down this year

If he doesn't see a down all year then that would mean that we had one hell of a year and Sedrick Ellis will hands down win Rookie of the year, because if Ellis's impact is so meaningful that Porter is strictly returning punts(he also doubles as pr/kr), and we are winning with MM, Young, David, and Gay then Ellis will have made the difference.

But anyway, How can you say he doesn't fit in to our secondary. He is not as physical-we don't need him to be. He specializes in man coverage where he blankets recievers making it hard for them to catch passes. We don't need him for run support. He is a speed demon that specializes in man coverage-he is exactly what we need.

The other thing you mentioned was that the reason we didn't pickup Flowers was because we were waiting for the giants to respond to the Shockey trade. The Saints new that The Shockey Trade wasn't gonna happen before the draft. The Giants wanted a first round pick. So we knew what was going on. Porter wasn't a pick we just through out at the last second. Or you so set on Shockey that you would give up Ellis-that's what the Giants wanted a number 1.

spkb25 · 04-26-2008, 08:18 PM

bobaganoosh excellent post.

04-26-2008, 08:35 PM	#1
WVSaint 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: West Virginia Posts: 807	Re: Has disappointment set in? no one is coming at you canton. ive been posting on this board for a long time and reading it for even longer. it looks like youre new to the board and thats cool, but no one is coming at you. you asked our opinion and w're giving it, most just happen to disagree with you. we are all passionate and opinionated about the saints. so dont take any of it personally.

04-26-2008, 09:13 PM	#2
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,781	Re: Has disappointment set in? Originally Posted by CantonLegend its easy to say im wrong but its based on facts....the fact is...there are no colstons in this draft....the fact is....porter is speedy but will not play on D....the fact is ellis is great yes....but the fact is....we sacrificed our secondary yet again....our secondary has improved this offseason no doubt....but thats like being the tallest midget....its not going to secure ne thing for us....sure nobody will run against us...but guess what...they didnt have to last year cuz we were getting beat over our heads....its not going to change I know I'm late to this party. Marcellus Wiley, former pro bowl defensive end and current ESPN analyst made this observation this week: It's hard for a QB to complete a pass from his back. That's what Ellis is going to do for us next season. An athletic DT is going to push the pocket and create opportunities for the ends to get to the QB. Hurries and sacks will make opposing QBs rush passes. There will be less balls going over the secondary's head. Sacks will be up. Opposing teams YPC and completion percentage will be down, and yes the run game will be better too. I see a defense jumping from 26th into the low teens, maybe even into the top 10. It will be a sight to behold. If you want to see what I'm talking about go and take a peek at the pass defense for Denver and San Francisco last year. Each spent a ton of money on top flight secondaries. Today's draft was wonderful. SFIAH
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good. Last edited by SaintFanInATLHELL; 04-26-2008 at 09:16 PM..

04-26-2008, 09:19 PM	#3
winmill1 100th Post Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 426	Re: Has disappointment set in? Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL I know I'm late to this party. Marcellus Wiley, former pro bowl defensive end and current ESPN analyst made this observation this week: That's what Ellis is going to do for us next season. An athletic DT is going to push the pocket and create opportunities for the ends to get to the QB. Hurries and sacks will make opposing QBs rush passes. There will be less balls going over the secondary's head. Sacks will be up. Opposing teams YPC and completion percentage will be down, and yes the run game will be better too. I see a defense jumping from 26th into the low teens, maybe even into the top 10. It will be a sight to behold. If you want to see what I'm talking about go and take a peek at the pass defense for Denver and San Francisco last year. Each spent a ton of money on top flight secondaries. Today's draft was wonderful. SFIAH yep. look at the giant's secondary-very vanila and average, but their defensive line-fast and strong=average secondary is made above average by good d line.
winmill1 100th Post Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 426

04-26-2008, 08:13 PM	#4
lsutigerfan 500th Post Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: born And raised in NOLA, now live in Los Angeles Posts: 811	Re: Has disappointment set in? Just Ellis alone is going to make our CB situation much better this kid can cover so he's not a very good tackeler nor was Deon Sanders and if he was a better tackeler he's probably a first rounder.

04-26-2008, 08:14 PM	#5
winmill1 100th Post Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 426	Re: Has disappointment set in? while i think that ellis was a great pickup for only a 3rd rounder and our 1st rounder....i hate that the saints did not trade up to get brandon flowers who i really think would compliment our defensive backs a lot better....i think that we were holding on to the shockey trade for too long....i thought for a second we might miss our pick...i think it got down to 24 seconds or so....i think they wanted shockey....and after a week of the hype...i kinda wanted us to get him too....i like our 2nd pick but i think that had we known shockey wouldnt be traded to us we might have tried to move up and get brandon flowers canton i copied this from another thread that you posted-on this post you say you like our 2nd round pick, so let me ask you what changed so drastically in 10 minutes.
winmill1 100th Post Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 426

04-26-2008, 08:17 PM	#6
CantonLegend 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 2,685 Blog Entries: 2	Re: Has disappointment set in? while i like his ability....i've thought about our secondary....he doesnt help us at all...i've asked this a lot so far and nobody has answered me.....who is he going to start over?....we could've had flowers who would start for us on nickel downs....but now we have a CB who very possibly may not see a down this year

04-26-2008, 08:24 PM	#7
Bobaganoosh PorkchopExpress Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 608 Blog Entries: 2	Re: Has disappointment set in? Originally Posted by CantonLegend while i like his ability....i've thought about our secondary....he doesnt help us at all...i've asked this a lot so far and nobody has answered me.....who is he going to start over?....we could've had flowers who would start for us on nickel downs....but now we have a CB who very possibly may not see a down this year I completely disagree. There was no chance Flowers would have come in and been our nickle CB. McKenzie, Young, David, and Gay are going to be our top 4 and that wouldnt change regardless of who we drafted. Porter will be on the field this year, he will return some kicks, and he can run with anyone in the league. He is similar to Young in ability, but he is further along in development and he is a bit faster. he can run with Galloway and Smith and he will help out here and there this year, but you have to think long term when it comes to draft picks man. That is what you are missing. Its not always about what the give you on day 1, but what they give you by midseason, or when someone goes down, or by year 2...and that fact is especially true when it comes to Cb's. You wanted to trade up for Flowers...ok, by giving up what? We dont have anything to give...no 3rd, no 4th...you want to come away from this draft with only 2 players?
	It's all in the reflexes.

04-26-2008, 08:27 PM	#8
D_it_up Faqda Falcons Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ruston, Louisiana Posts: 3,465 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Has disappointment set in? Originally Posted by CantonLegend i've asked this a lot so far and nobody has answered me.....who is he going to start over?....we could've had flowers who would start for us on nickel downs....but now we have a CB who very possibly may not see a down this year Who could this guy NOT start over this season? McKenzie is coming off of knee surgery, the smoke still hasn't settled off of David from all the times he was burned, Young obviously hasn't shown enough to warrant much PT. Gay could end up being a good pick-up, or he could be another David-type pick-up. Craft? Thomas? I don't even have to bother with those two, because they are too easy. I'm not saying that he is going to be a starter, but he has just as much chance as anyone right now.
	People shouldn't be afraid of their government. Governments should be afraid of their people.

04-26-2008, 08:40 PM	#9
winmill1 100th Post Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 426	Re: Has disappointment set in? Originally Posted by CantonLegend while i like his ability....i've thought about our secondary....he doesnt help us at all...i've asked this a lot so far and nobody has answered me.....who is he going to start over?....we could've had flowers who would start for us on nickel downs....but now we have a CB who very possibly may not see a down this year If he doesn't see a down all year then that would mean that we had one hell of a year and Sedrick Ellis will hands down win Rookie of the year, because if Ellis's impact is so meaningful that Porter is strictly returning punts(he also doubles as pr/kr), and we are winning with MM, Young, David, and Gay then Ellis will have made the difference. But anyway, How can you say he doesn't fit in to our secondary. He is not as physical-we don't need him to be. He specializes in man coverage where he blankets recievers making it hard for them to catch passes. We don't need him for run support. He is a speed demon that specializes in man coverage-he is exactly what we need. The other thing you mentioned was that the reason we didn't pickup Flowers was because we were waiting for the giants to respond to the Shockey trade. The Saints new that The Shockey Trade wasn't gonna happen before the draft. The Giants wanted a first round pick. So we knew what was going on. Porter wasn't a pick we just through out at the last second. Or you so set on Shockey that you would give up Ellis-that's what the Giants wanted a number 1.
winmill1 100th Post Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 426

04-26-2008, 08:18 PM	#10
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,115	Re: Has disappointment set in? bobaganoosh excellent post.

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