Has disappointment set in?

D_it_up · 04-26-2008, 09:19 PM

They were beating us over our heads, because THERE WAS NO FREAKIN' PASS RUSH! Ellis is going to draw double-teams. With him and (insert other DT here) providing a bull-rush up the middle, the pocket will collapse quickly allowing Grant, McCray, or Smith to provide the necessary pressure on the QB so he doesn't have seven or eight seconds to complete a pass. This will allow our secondary to stay tighter with the receivers and cut down all the big plays teams had against them last year. Our linebackers should should also be much improved in pass coverage which will take even more pressure off the secondary. Even though we don't have a top-flight corner, we shouldn't need one as long as the QB is watching the game from his back.

JKool · 04-26-2008, 09:23 PM

CBs tend to have a longer learning curve in the transition to the NFL, like WRs. This means that it is rare to find a CB who is not slotted for the Nickle or Dime slot in his first year or two. It is very rare that a new CB comes in and is what you are asking for - a serious improvement to a seasoned secondary.

No one has said that Porter is a bad tackler (in anything I've read about him), what they said is that he is a bit small and lacks aggressiveness. However, in agreement with Boba above, 80+ tackles doesn't sound like a slouch to me.

I think the Shockey trade would have helped us more right now, but in the long run, Porter is as good as any we could have got at #40. I say nice pick.

I also think that an improved (and healthy D-line) that can slow the run (limiting play action and the need for the CBs to play down) and create some pass rush will improve our secondary immeasurably.

I'm not disappointed at all with our first two picks.

Bobaganoosh · 04-26-2008, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by CantonLegend

while i like his ability....i've thought about our secondary....he doesnt help us at all...i've asked this a lot so far and nobody has answered me.....who is he going to start over?....we could've had flowers who would start for us on nickel downs....but now we have a CB who very possibly may not see a down this year

I completely disagree. There was no chance Flowers would have come in and been our nickle CB. McKenzie, Young, David, and Gay are going to be our top 4 and that wouldnt change regardless of who we drafted. Porter will be on the field this year, he will return some kicks, and he can run with anyone in the league. He is similar to Young in ability, but he is further along in development and he is a bit faster. he can run with Galloway and Smith and he will help out here and there this year, but you have to think long term when it comes to draft picks man. That is what you are missing. Its not always about what the give you on day 1, but what they give you by midseason, or when someone goes down, or by year 2...and that fact is especially true when it comes to Cb's.

You wanted to trade up for Flowers...ok, by giving up what? We dont have anything to give...no 3rd, no 4th...you want to come away from this draft with only 2 players?

TheDeuce · 04-26-2008, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by D_it_up2

I think that you and only one or two others are totally disappointed with Porter. I'm all for the pick and becoming more so the more I read and see on this kid.

I completely agree with you D_it_up2, the more I read on the kid, the more I like it. He excels in man-to-man schemes because he has great speed and instincts. I wouldn't worry about the "bulk" issue that they claim he lacks, he'll add the weight. I think this was the best CB pick available at the time.

gandhi1007 · 04-26-2008, 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by WVSaint

i disagree with just about everything you said canton. as far as the colston comment, that was a needle in a haystack, if youre looking to find a colston in every draft youre gonna be seriously disappointed. porter will have every opportunity to improve, the reason you say we need a CB is due to our secondary not being very good, why wouldnt he have a shot to start if they are as bad as you think. getting ellis, helps our secondary, putting pressure on a QB, will always be a good thing for secondaries. our offseason moves have positioned us to have smith, grant, ellis, and mccray, rushing the QBs in passing situations. im not saying, were suddenly a top 5 D, but we are improved. we had so many problems with our D last year, its crazy to think we can fix everything in one offseason.

There is still a "Colston" in this draft. His name is Marcus Monk.

beauchristopher · 04-26-2008, 09:26 PM

i prefer him over flowers for our system. flowers is physical but could cost us the deep ball because he tends to stare down the backfield(another JD).. and he is not as consistent. He's very aggressive and can beaten by double-moves. (Jason David 101)

Porter has 1 inch on flowers in height. Has much better speed. Is much more of a playmaker on the ball with larger hands.. He possesses elite change of direction which is perfect for what we need. His main knock is bulk/strength.. mainly against the run but we have a great run D.. especially with all the linebackers we added.

Porter= "One of the nation's top playmaking defensive backs, Tracy Porter became the first player in school history to return a punt, interception and fumble for touchdowns in his career."

WVSaint · 04-26-2008, 09:26 PM

also with TB drafting dexter jackson, getting a guy like porter looks even better.

gandhi1007 · 04-26-2008, 09:27 PM

I like the Porter pick. I personally wanted Fred Davis when the Shockey deal fell through, but Porter is still a good pick.

D_it_up · 04-26-2008, 09:27 PM

Originally Posted by CantonLegend

i've asked this a lot so far and nobody has answered me.....who is he going to start over?....we could've had flowers who would start for us on nickel downs....but now we have a CB who very possibly may not see a down this year

Who could this guy NOT start over this season? McKenzie is coming off of knee surgery, the smoke still hasn't settled off of David from all the times he was burned, Young obviously hasn't shown enough to warrant much PT. Gay could end up being a good pick-up, or he could be another David-type pick-up. Craft? Thomas? I don't even have to bother with those two, because they are too easy. I'm not saying that he is going to be a starter, but he has just as much chance as anyone right now.

spkb25 · 04-26-2008, 09:29 PM

Dit up and Jkool I am right with you. No one, no matter their corners, were going to be able to cover the new england wideouts last year. Way to much speed an skill. How do you neutralize that, you put pressure on the qb and make him rush his throws. You will not always get there but you hope you can be disruptive enough. I think will smith has his best year this year. it all, every bit of it, starts at the line of scrimmage.

04-26-2008, 09:19 PM	#21
D_it_up Faqda Falcons Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ruston, Louisiana Posts: 3,465 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Has disappointment set in? They were beating us over our heads, because THERE WAS NO FREAKIN' PASS RUSH! Ellis is going to draw double-teams. With him and (insert other DT here) providing a bull-rush up the middle, the pocket will collapse quickly allowing Grant, McCray, or Smith to provide the necessary pressure on the QB so he doesn't have seven or eight seconds to complete a pass. This will allow our secondary to stay tighter with the receivers and cut down all the big plays teams had against them last year. Our linebackers should should also be much improved in pass coverage which will take even more pressure off the secondary. Even though we don't have a top-flight corner, we shouldn't need one as long as the QB is watching the game from his back.
	People shouldn't be afraid of their government. Governments should be afraid of their people.

04-26-2008, 09:23 PM	#22
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Re: Has disappointment set in? CBs tend to have a longer learning curve in the transition to the NFL, like WRs. This means that it is rare to find a CB who is not slotted for the Nickle or Dime slot in his first year or two. It is very rare that a new CB comes in and is what you are asking for - a serious improvement to a seasoned secondary. No one has said that Porter is a bad tackler (in anything I've read about him), what they said is that he is a bit small and lacks aggressiveness. However, in agreement with Boba above, 80+ tackles doesn't sound like a slouch to me. I think the Shockey trade would have helped us more right now, but in the long run, Porter is as good as any we could have got at #40. I say nice pick. I also think that an improved (and healthy D-line) that can slow the run (limiting play action and the need for the CBs to play down) and create some pass rush will improve our secondary immeasurably. I'm not disappointed at all with our first two picks.
	"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

04-26-2008, 09:24 PM	#23
Bobaganoosh PorkchopExpress Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 608 Blog Entries: 2	Re: Has disappointment set in? Originally Posted by CantonLegend while i like his ability....i've thought about our secondary....he doesnt help us at all...i've asked this a lot so far and nobody has answered me.....who is he going to start over?....we could've had flowers who would start for us on nickel downs....but now we have a CB who very possibly may not see a down this year I completely disagree. There was no chance Flowers would have come in and been our nickle CB. McKenzie, Young, David, and Gay are going to be our top 4 and that wouldnt change regardless of who we drafted. Porter will be on the field this year, he will return some kicks, and he can run with anyone in the league. He is similar to Young in ability, but he is further along in development and he is a bit faster. he can run with Galloway and Smith and he will help out here and there this year, but you have to think long term when it comes to draft picks man. That is what you are missing. Its not always about what the give you on day 1, but what they give you by midseason, or when someone goes down, or by year 2...and that fact is especially true when it comes to Cb's. You wanted to trade up for Flowers...ok, by giving up what? We dont have anything to give...no 3rd, no 4th...you want to come away from this draft with only 2 players?
	It's all in the reflexes.

04-26-2008, 09:24 PM	#24
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928	Re: Has disappointment set in? Originally Posted by D_it_up2 I think that you and only one or two others are totally disappointed with Porter. I'm all for the pick and becoming more so the more I read and see on this kid. I completely agree with you D_it_up2, the more I read on the kid, the more I like it. He excels in man-to-man schemes because he has great speed and instincts. I wouldn't worry about the "bulk" issue that they claim he lacks, he'll add the weight. I think this was the best CB pick available at the time.
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928

04-26-2008, 09:26 PM	#25
gandhi1007 Part Time Pimp Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,967	Re: Has disappointment set in? Originally Posted by WVSaint i disagree with just about everything you said canton. as far as the colston comment, that was a needle in a haystack, if youre looking to find a colston in every draft youre gonna be seriously disappointed. porter will have every opportunity to improve, the reason you say we need a CB is due to our secondary not being very good, why wouldnt he have a shot to start if they are as bad as you think. getting ellis, helps our secondary, putting pressure on a QB, will always be a good thing for secondaries. our offseason moves have positioned us to have smith, grant, ellis, and mccray, rushing the QBs in passing situations. im not saying, were suddenly a top 5 D, but we are improved. we had so many problems with our D last year, its crazy to think we can fix everything in one offseason. There is still a "Colston" in this draft. His name is Marcus Monk.

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04-26-2008, 09:26 PM	#26
beauchristopher 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 227	Re: Has disappointment set in? i prefer him over flowers for our system. flowers is physical but could cost us the deep ball because he tends to stare down the backfield(another JD).. and he is not as consistent. He's very aggressive and can beaten by double-moves. (Jason David 101) Porter has 1 inch on flowers in height. Has much better speed. Is much more of a playmaker on the ball with larger hands.. He possesses elite change of direction which is perfect for what we need. His main knock is bulk/strength.. mainly against the run but we have a great run D.. especially with all the linebackers we added. Porter= "One of the nation's top playmaking defensive backs, Tracy Porter became the first player in school history to return a punt, interception and fumble for touchdowns in his career."

04-26-2008, 09:26 PM	#27
WVSaint 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: West Virginia Posts: 807	Re: Has disappointment set in? also with TB drafting dexter jackson, getting a guy like porter looks even better.

04-26-2008, 09:27 PM	#28
gandhi1007 Part Time Pimp Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,967	Re: Has disappointment set in? I like the Porter pick. I personally wanted Fred Davis when the Shockey deal fell through, but Porter is still a good pick.

04-26-2008, 09:29 PM	#30
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,097	Re: Has disappointment set in? Dit up and Jkool I am right with you. No one, no matter their corners, were going to be able to cover the new england wideouts last year. Way to much speed an skill. How do you neutralize that, you put pressure on the qb and make him rush his throws. You will not always get there but you hope you can be disruptive enough. I think will smith has his best year this year. it all, every bit of it, starts at the line of scrimmage.