Re: Pat Kirwan believes that the..
 

Our TE position is far from solid, I think they would've drafted a TE if they felt that there was no way this trade could still happen. We will see.

Re: Pat Kirwan believes that the..
 

I love the strategy Payton is using to get Shockey...

And whoever thinks we don't need a Probowl TE on our roster is crazy. Shockey is no alter boy, but he's one hell of a fine football player.

Re: Pat Kirwan believes that the..
 

Whoa, Eric Johnson stat wise was 11th vs all NFL TE's last year. Considering he was hurt part of the year that is not to bad for a TE that is not "solid". Shockey was 8th and he played in more games then Johnson. On paper anyway the gap is not as large as you might think. The knock on Shockey is that he's not a great run/blocker which you might apply to our current stable of TE. So how does adding Shockey help us in that aspect? I think this is a player that Payton thinks can help open up the Passing game which I don't think is where the O needs help. Maybe Payton thinks Shockey can help open the middle if he has the SS/LB in coverage which equates into helping the run? I think my point is why give up high picks for Shockey when he's not the game changer that say a Moss is.

NFL Stats: by Player Position

Re: Pat Kirwan believes that the..
 

Let's talk about speed. Shockey has all of our TE's beat there... He's a guy that draws a lot of attention off the line. How much better would he make all of our other O weapons when they're defended one-on-one?

Re: Pat Kirwan believes that the..
 

Good point .....Eric Johnson is plenty serviceable and good enough ...... when he is healthy ..... has he been healthy an entire season yet? Giants found Boss in the seventh round ... we can do the same and not trade the farm!


:handguns:

Re: Pat Kirwan believes that the..
 

I agree with Kirwan.
The Saints FO is actually going about it the right way here. It is not about the compensation, but how comfortable Eli is with Shockey in the lineup. If the Giants front office and coaches believe that Sockey is a detriment to Eli's leadership and development, they will deal Shockey, and the closer it gets to the season without a trade, the price will go lower and lower.

Re: Pat Kirwan believes that the..
 

I think Aaron Brooks got a F- on his Wonderlick score.

Re: Pat Kirwan believes that the..
 

Ok Guys and Gals,

Lets break this down. Johnson and Miller both are classified as balanced/hands TE's not blocking TE's. Miller has better hands and speed where Johnson is a bigger target and runs better routes. While Johnson is better at pass/run blocking than Miller...neither are consistent enough to get the job done in that area. We are not even going to discuss Campbell...moot point. Even though these TE's are considered to be better receivers than blockers they can still be covered by most if not all LB's in the business. This leaves Safeties free to roam to head hunt our receivers.
Shockey on the other hand is a more balanced TE that has decent route running skill, great hands and can block on a more consistent basis than all three of our current TE's. Shockey will draw constant attention up the middle from either strong or free safety and will open up the corner and fade routes down the sidelines. Why do you think Plaxico had some many long TD's this season down the sidelines.
I will concur that Johnson was ranked 11th and Shockey only 8th but you have to look at the whole picture. With our receivers double covered the majority of time leaving LB's to cover Johnson/Miller it is a no brainer for Brees to throw the TE route when he is in man-on-man with a LB. The only problem is is that those passes were being dropped too often or being batted by the LB. Throw Shockey in the mix and that pulls safety help in the middle leaving one-on-one coverage on one of the receivers. Another thing this could force is more defense's to play us in Zone coverage instead of Man-to-Man and this meens less blitzes and softer coverage. We all know what Brees will do with that combination.
I do not believe that the FO would have drafted a TE even if the Shockey trade was completely dead due to the fact that no TE on the board at the round 2 spot would have given them a definite upgrade over Johnson or Miller. You don't draft for position unless it is a need or you can guarantee an upgrade over current players.
This being said I think Shockey would be a good addition but not necessary unless the price is right. You have to remember that he will require a large contract to keep him and there is this little thing called a salary cap that the FO has to deal with also. Will Smith is wanting a contract negotiation and given the choice over paying Shockey or Smith...I'll take Smith any day. Best Offense is a good Defense. Our offense is strong if they can get on the field. The defense could not get off the field last year due to a poor secondary. Fix this hole first...then tweak the rest.

Re: Pat Kirwan believes that the..
 

Hilarious!

I'm not sure what I think about our current TEs. Shockey would be an upgrade though; I think it would be difficult to deny this.

I suppose, the question might be this - what is this upgrade worth?

Our offense is arguably quite good, even with the bunch of TEs we have. So long as Colston is healthy, it isn't like we need a possession receiver. What critical role does the TE play then? Blocker? Interior threat?

Don't get me wrong, I still think that Shockey is an upgrade and will make us better. The question is this: how much better do we need to be on Offense to win the big game? If the answer is "not very much" then I don't see a critical need to upgrade at TE. If the answer is "a lot", then an upgrade at TE might be something very important.

Again, I'd be pretty pleased to see Shockey on this squad, especially if the price is a 3rd rounder or less.

Re: Pat Kirwan believes that the..
 

Nice post, jewagr. That is a good analysis.