Pat Kirwan believes that the..

QBREES9 · 04-30-2008, 08:29 PM

Pat Kirwan believes that the.. I now this might sound crazy

Jeremy Shockey trade could still go down. I know Jimmy Smith mentioned this in his chat and now Kirwan is also mentioning it. Where there is smoke...anyway, Kirwan offers the following:

With 2009 draft picks as chips, trades are still possible -- and in some cases probable, because of the flexibility of the trade language that could be used. Now a team can trade with conditions. For example, Jeremy Shockey could be traded for a third-round choice that becomes a second if he catches 60 passes -- or even a first if he makes the Pro Bowl.

Jeremy Shockey, TE, Giants. The Saints used their third-round pick to advance in the first round for Sed Ellis and probably didn't want to surrender their second-round pick and be out of the draft until pick No. 144. The Saints did not draft a tight end and could have in the second round, with Fred Davis and Martellus Bennett still on the board. I think the Saints are capable of doubling back to the Giants this spring to still get Shockey.

NFL News

thesaintsfan · 04-30-2008, 09:26 PM

I think this Shockey thing isn't going to die until the guy retires.

pakowitz · 04-30-2008, 09:29 PM

i think he might be right though.. the saints proved that they will not overpay for shockey and you know he is going to make waves after not being traded during the draft..

FireVenturi · 04-30-2008, 10:15 PM

What pick could we use next year? Dont we have to give the Jets anywhere from a 2nd to a 4th in 09(Vilma trade)?

pakowitz · 04-30-2008, 10:18 PM

well i dont know if they can do it like this but i would offer a 3rd and in the event that our 3rd is gone to the jets then the giants would get our 2nd..

MatthewT · 04-30-2008, 10:40 PM

I don't think this trade will ever go down. If it does, I would figure it would be a player for player trade. The Saints don't really need Shockey, the TE position is pretty solid as is.

pakowitz · 04-30-2008, 10:59 PM

Originally Posted by MatthewT

I don't think this trade will ever go down. If it does, I would figure it would be a player for player trade. The Saints don't really need Shockey, the TE position is pretty solid as is.

i dont know if the trade will happen but i disagree that the TE position is solid.. we have a lack of playmaking ability at the TE position.. johnson has potential but he is often injured for multiple games and he had some costly drops last year... billy miller got some good PT in but he definetly isnt the long term answer at TE.. best suited as a backup

MatthewT · 04-30-2008, 11:32 PM

True, the Saints don't have real play maker's at TE. I still believe the Saints have solid TEs. I guarantee you that most teams would love to have Johnson, Campbell, and Miller on their roster collectively. Yeah, none of these guys are projected to come anywhere close to earning a pro-bowl appearance, but they are a solid group. With the overall talent the Saints have on offense a great TE is not needed. I know a lot was said in the past about Brees wanting a dominating TE like he had in San Diego with Gates. To me that theory is way overblown. The main reason he and Gates worked out well was the Chargers at the time lacked good WRs. Anyway, if the Saints want to make a big improvement at TE, get one who can block the daylights out of a LB or blitzing safety.

thesaintsfan · 04-30-2008, 11:35 PM

Here we go again. How can you look at our TEs and think that they are even close to solid? Two of them are broke down and the other one (Miller) is a C grade player at best. I guess the term solid means something different to me. If I were to grade our TEs with the classic A-F format it would look like this: Johnson C, Miller C-, and Campbell F-. I know there's no such thing as a F- but I just made it up. A great unit would be like an A+ and two Cs. A solid unit would have a B, a C, and whatever.

Wow, that even confused me. My point is that our TEs suck, period. We can't continue to try to sugar coat it by calling them solid. We need a playmaker there to open things up more. It's simple Xs and Os.

jeanpierre · 05-01-2008, 01:15 AM

Draft Picks for Shockey is not the way to go; it would have to be players for player; barring injuries or slow injury recovery, we will have a slight excess in DB's and WR's and possibly at LB, all needs of the Giants...

A player and a fifth, progressive to a fourth if a draft pick were necessary...

And don't discount the Chad Johnson Situation, who's represented by Pit Viper aka Drew Rosenhaus.

Giants would like to avoid that distraction in NY Media by Shockey also represented by DR...

After winning Superbowl, Reese can avoid to give a discount...

04-30-2008, 08:29 PM	#1
QBREES9 Moderator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: New Haven Ct Posts: 23,985	Pat Kirwan believes that the.. Pat Kirwan believes that the.. I now this might sound crazy Jeremy Shockey trade could still go down. I know Jimmy Smith mentioned this in his chat and now Kirwan is also mentioning it. Where there is smoke...anyway, Kirwan offers the following: With 2009 draft picks as chips, trades are still possible -- and in some cases probable, because of the flexibility of the trade language that could be used. Now a team can trade with conditions. For example, Jeremy Shockey could be traded for a third-round choice that becomes a second if he catches 60 passes -- or even a first if he makes the Pro Bowl. Jeremy Shockey, TE, Giants. The Saints used their third-round pick to advance in the first round for Sed Ellis and probably didn't want to surrender their second-round pick and be out of the draft until pick No. 144. The Saints did not draft a tight end and could have in the second round, with Fred Davis and Martellus Bennett still on the board. I think the Saints are capable of doubling back to the Giants this spring to still get Shockey. NFL News
	www.sportsshooter.com/johnjcoleman " Anyone can take a picture Only a Photographer can take a photograph "

04-30-2008, 09:26 PM	#2
thesaintsfan The Real Deal Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 174	Re: Pat Kirwan believes that the.. I think this Shockey thing isn't going to die until the guy retires.

04-30-2008, 09:29 PM	#3
pakowitz The Dark Overlord Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,450	Re: Pat Kirwan believes that the.. i think he might be right though.. the saints proved that they will not overpay for shockey and you know he is going to make waves after not being traded during the draft..

04-30-2008, 10:15 PM	#4
FireVenturi Cold as Ice! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Da Big Easy Posts: 2,978	Re: Pat Kirwan believes that the.. What pick could we use next year? Dont we have to give the Jets anywhere from a 2nd to a 4th in 09(Vilma trade)?

04-30-2008, 10:18 PM	#5
pakowitz The Dark Overlord Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,450	Re: Pat Kirwan believes that the.. well i dont know if they can do it like this but i would offer a 3rd and in the event that our 3rd is gone to the jets then the giants would get our 2nd..

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04-30-2008, 10:40 PM	#6
MatthewT 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,729	Re: Pat Kirwan believes that the.. I don't think this trade will ever go down. If it does, I would figure it would be a player for player trade. The Saints don't really need Shockey, the TE position is pretty solid as is.

04-30-2008, 10:59 PM	#7
pakowitz The Dark Overlord Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,450	Re: Pat Kirwan believes that the.. Originally Posted by MatthewT I don't think this trade will ever go down. If it does, I would figure it would be a player for player trade. The Saints don't really need Shockey, the TE position is pretty solid as is. i dont know if the trade will happen but i disagree that the TE position is solid.. we have a lack of playmaking ability at the TE position.. johnson has potential but he is often injured for multiple games and he had some costly drops last year... billy miller got some good PT in but he definetly isnt the long term answer at TE.. best suited as a backup

04-30-2008, 11:32 PM	#8
MatthewT 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,729	Re: Pat Kirwan believes that the.. True, the Saints don't have real play maker's at TE. I still believe the Saints have solid TEs. I guarantee you that most teams would love to have Johnson, Campbell, and Miller on their roster collectively. Yeah, none of these guys are projected to come anywhere close to earning a pro-bowl appearance, but they are a solid group. With the overall talent the Saints have on offense a great TE is not needed. I know a lot was said in the past about Brees wanting a dominating TE like he had in San Diego with Gates. To me that theory is way overblown. The main reason he and Gates worked out well was the Chargers at the time lacked good WRs. Anyway, if the Saints want to make a big improvement at TE, get one who can block the daylights out of a LB or blitzing safety.

04-30-2008, 11:35 PM	#9
thesaintsfan The Real Deal Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 174	Re: Pat Kirwan believes that the.. Here we go again. How can you look at our TEs and think that they are even close to solid? Two of them are broke down and the other one (Miller) is a C grade player at best. I guess the term solid means something different to me. If I were to grade our TEs with the classic A-F format it would look like this: Johnson C, Miller C-, and Campbell F-. I know there's no such thing as a F- but I just made it up. A great unit would be like an A+ and two Cs. A solid unit would have a B, a C, and whatever. Wow, that even confused me. My point is that our TEs suck, period. We can't continue to try to sugar coat it by calling them solid. We need a playmaker there to open things up more. It's simple Xs and Os.
	We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams.

05-01-2008, 01:15 AM	#10
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Pat Kirwan believes that the.. Draft Picks for Shockey is not the way to go; it would have to be players for player; barring injuries or slow injury recovery, we will have a slight excess in DB's and WR's and possibly at LB, all needs of the Giants... A player and a fifth, progressive to a fourth if a draft pick were necessary... And don't discount the Chad Johnson Situation, who's represented by Pit Viper aka Drew Rosenhaus. Giants would like to avoid that distraction in NY Media by Shockey also represented by DR... After winning Superbowl, Reese can avoid to give a discount...
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way... Last edited by jeanpierre; 05-01-2008 at 01:19 AM..