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rome was not built in a day.......

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Tuesday, May 13, 2008 Rome Was Not Built in a Day There are two ways NFL head coaches and general managers build professional football franchises capable of winning Super Bowls, and patience seems to be the only variable between them. ...

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Old 05-17-2008, 06:17 AM   #1
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rome was not built in a day.......

Tuesday, May 13, 2008
Rome Was Not Built in a Day


There are two ways NFL head coaches and general managers build professional football franchises capable of winning Super Bowls, and patience seems to be the only variable between them. Teams can build for the future to win consistently or mortgage the future to win now. Some teams, such as the Indianapolis Colts and New England Patriots refuse to make large sweeping personnel moves; rather they continuously find value in each free agent signing and draft pick. The Colts or Patriots will never package a heap of draft picks to move up in round one to get that "need to have player" necessary to win a Super Bowl.

On the other hand, some teams cling to hopes of winning a Super Bowl this year and choose to mortgage their future to achieve that end. For example, the Jaguars traded away their first round pick, two thirds, and a fourth-round draft pick to acquire Florida's Derrick Harvey. And, a year after trading their 2008 first-round pick for Brady Quinn, the Browns traded their second and third round picks for Corey Williams and Shaun Rogers, rendering them “pick-less” until round four. Very rarely, if ever, does the decision to mortgage the future not come at too steep a price. Luckily, for Saints fans, the Saints appear to have their future in mind with every move they make. They are building a team in hopes of winning not one Lombardi Trophy, but several.

Although the Giants are the reigning Super Bowl champs, they are not a franchise built for the future. They will not be a dynasty. Teams that are consistently successful (as measured by their ability to compete for Super Bowls) always have two things in common: an elite QB and a consistent top 5 ranking on offense or defense. The two dominant professional football franchises of the new millennium have been the Indianapolis Colts and New England Patriots. The Colts have an elite quarterback in Peyton Manning and have been consistently ranked in the top 5 in total offense for the past several years. The Patriots also have a superstar quarterback in Tom Brady, and last year (in their bid for perfection) were ranked tops in the league in total offense – prior to that, for the past several years, it was their defense that was ranked among the best in the NFL. The dynasties of the 1990’s, the Denver Broncos and Dallas Cowboys, boasted the same. Denver had their elite quarterback in Elway and a top 5 offense (and in 1997, a top 5 defense, too). Dallas had Aikman and a top 5 offense throughout their reign. San Francisco was perhaps the greatest of them all. The '49ers won the Lombardi Trophy five times in the 80's and 90's behind the superior quarterback play of Joe Montana and Steve Young and consistently had offenses or defenses (and sometimes both) ranked in the top 5 of the league.

So if the formula for consistent success is a team with an elite quarterback and a top five ranking on one side of the ball, where do the Saints stack up right now? While Drew Brees may not be in the same category as Tom Brady and Peyton Manning, few would argue that he has not been an elite NFL quarterback the past two seasons. Last year he finished behind only Brett Favre and Tom Brady (but ahead of Peyton Manning) in passing yards; and in 2006, he led the entire league. While the Saints no longer boast the Dome Patrol defense, the team has had no issues finding offensive success over the past two seasons. They finished first in the league in total offense in 2006 and fifth in 2005. In common with past NFL dynasties, the Saints have an elite QB and a consistent top-five offense. With Sean Payton calling the plays for a team whose offensive starters average 27 years of age (25 for their three big playmakers, Brees, Colston, and Bush), it's safe to assume that there will be little if any drop-off in total offense over the next several years. The Saints window of opportunity is just beginning to open.

So far, however, even with those pieces, the Saints have failed to make it to the big game, which is less than every one of our division rivals can say. Carolina and Atlanta made the big game in 2004 and 1999 respectively, and Tampa Bay won it in 2003. Unfortunately for those teams it is 2008, and last I checked, Jake Delhomme and Tampa's five QB's (even if you combined their skill-sets) are not elite; and Atlanta will be hard-pressed to finish the season in the top twenty in offense or defense, much less the top five. Also, the once-vaunted defenses of the Panthers and Buccaneers are no longer as dominant. It's not that they are bad; quite frankly they're much better than what the Saints strutted out the past two seasons – but we're looking for top 5, remember. Sure, teams can win a Super Bowl without having an elite QB and top 5 offense or defense – the Giants proved that last year and, as mentioned above, Tampa proved it in '03 -- but they won't do it consistently. Teams need both. If the Baltimore Ravens would have had an elite quarterback to complement one of the best defenses in NFL history we may be talking about them as the great dynasty of the early 2000’s. Too bad Trent Dilfer, Elvis Grbac, Kyle Boller, or Steve McNair didn’t fit the bill as “elite.”

Teams that have the necessary ingredients do not have to make rash personnel decisions in order to remain competitive. They can be more patient. Recently, in negotiating with the New York Giants for tight-end Jeremy Shockey, the Saints proved they are not willing to mortgage their future; rather they exhibited the patience necessary to build a dynasty. The team made a fair offer for the tight end during the draft, but was rebuked. New York, reasonably so, demanded higher compensation than a 2nd and 5th round pick, but the Saints chose not to sweeten their offer. Since then, I have heard such things as "we should trade next year's first round pick for Shockey because we can win with him now, and there is no telling what next years' pick will produce." As for me, I was happy when Loomis didn't allow the Giants to force his hand in overpaying for Shockey, and believe we should not even consider giving up our 2009 first-round pick for him. I was happy when we didn't throw millions at Asante Samuel to lure him to New Orleans (much like the Buccaneers did when they made Jeff Faine the highest paid center in the league). I was happy when we refused to mortgage the farm for Glenn Dorsey (much like the Panthers did when they gave the Eagles a second and fourth-round pick in last month's draft and their first-round pick next year for a player who, by most accounts, was just the fourth or fifth best-rated lineman available – sorry Coach Fox, but Jeff Otah is not going to win Carolina the Lombardi Trophy either).

In the last two cases, teams have made personnel decisions that will put them behind the eight ball for the future all in hopes of competing for the playoffs this season. Why? Carolina and Tampa are not winning the Super Bowl this year. The Saints may not either, but at least we are not paying players and making draft moves that will short-change us for next year… or the year after. While Jacksonville was giving up the farm (four picks) for Derrick Harvey, the Saints gave up one third-rounder for Sedrick Ellis. When Carolina was sending 3 picks to Philly for Jeff Otah, the Saints were sending the Jets a mere fourth-rounder for Jonathan Vilma. While other teams in the NFC South tried desperately to answer all their personnel questions in one off-season, the Saints understood that it is not always prudent or possible to do so. They were content to leave a few needs unanswered when they refused to overpay for a tight-end or a corner back (remind anyone of Belichik?).

I understand that many Saints fans would rather just make the big game like Carolina did in 2004, or Atlanta did in 1999 (or preferably win it like Tampa did in 2003), and could care less about "building a dynasty." But why think small? Please don't buy in to that stupid cliché that states "the future is now!" People who think that way have little foresight. Teams that mortgage their future to win now have an itch and they scratch it. They truly believe that they are only one player away from winning the Super Bowl. But they will wake up to the reality that all they did was cripple their franchise.

As the 2008 season approaches, Saints fans should know that they cheer for a team that is very close to exploding through the weak NFC ranks. They follow an organization that is finally doing it the right way. The men running the show (Loomis and Payton) are building this team for the long haul, not the short. The Saints have their elite quarterback, Drew Brees, and one of the NFL’s top five offenses – and neither appears to be going away any time soon. Those are the two things dynasties are built upon. Rather than selling out for now, our front office is putting in for later. Fans should enjoy the ride – the next five years will be the best Saints history may have to offer.
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Old 05-17-2008, 11:12 AM   #2
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Re: rome was not built in a day.......

Amen! PREACH!

Best article I've read before a season started.

Great find Smitty!
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Old 05-17-2008, 11:23 AM   #3
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Re: rome was not built in a day.......

Lets see how this year plays out. I am really looking forward it. I think we are in for more than one surprise this year as to who can become a starter in 2009. This should make the saints draft next year very interesting. What players stay and who gets traded or just cut out right. Then you got FA too. Boy am I excited. The future will be revealed this year.
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Old 05-17-2008, 11:56 AM   #4
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Re: rome was not built in a day.......

Yeah I like our 40 year plus plan at building a Super Bowl team.
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Old 05-17-2008, 01:16 PM   #5
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Re: rome was not built in a day.......

i think this is a great article also....i like the idea of building a team to win for years rather than now....but i want both....can i have that one?...i wanna win this year and next year and the year after that
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Old 05-17-2008, 03:14 PM   #6
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Re: rome was not built in a day.......

Originally Posted by Euphoria View Post
Yeah I like our 40 year plus plan at building a Super Bowl team.
hahaha, amen... 40+ years and counting

This must be one hell of a dynasty we're working on.
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Old 05-17-2008, 07:48 PM   #7
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Re: rome was not built in a day.......

Originally Posted by Euphoria View Post
Yeah I like our 40 year plus plan at building a Super Bowl team.
i posted this just for you eup, i knew you'd understand..............
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Old 05-18-2008, 03:02 AM   #8
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Re: rome was not built in a day.......

The Saints did NOT give their 3rd round selection to New England for moving up 3 slots. They traded their 3rd rounder for NE's 5th rounder. That's not a picky correction. If Carl Nicks makes the team, it will be BIG.







Originally Posted by ssmitty View Post
Tuesday, May 13, 2008
Rome Was Not Built in a Day


There are two ways NFL head coaches and general managers build professional football franchises capable of winning Super Bowls, and patience seems to be the only variable between them. Teams can build for the future to win consistently or mortgage the future to win now. Some teams, such as the Indianapolis Colts and New England Patriots refuse to make large sweeping personnel moves; rather they continuously find value in each free agent signing and draft pick. The Colts or Patriots will never package a heap of draft picks to move up in round one to get that "need to have player" necessary to win a Super Bowl.

On the other hand, some teams cling to hopes of winning a Super Bowl this year and choose to mortgage their future to achieve that end. For example, the Jaguars traded away their first round pick, two thirds, and a fourth-round draft pick to acquire Florida's Derrick Harvey. And, a year after trading their 2008 first-round pick for Brady Quinn, the Browns traded their second and third round picks for Corey Williams and Shaun Rogers, rendering them “pick-less” until round four. Very rarely, if ever, does the decision to mortgage the future not come at too steep a price. Luckily, for Saints fans, the Saints appear to have their future in mind with every move they make. They are building a team in hopes of winning not one Lombardi Trophy, but several.

Although the Giants are the reigning Super Bowl champs, they are not a franchise built for the future. They will not be a dynasty. Teams that are consistently successful (as measured by their ability to compete for Super Bowls) always have two things in common: an elite QB and a consistent top 5 ranking on offense or defense. The two dominant professional football franchises of the new millennium have been the Indianapolis Colts and New England Patriots. The Colts have an elite quarterback in Peyton Manning and have been consistently ranked in the top 5 in total offense for the past several years. The Patriots also have a superstar quarterback in Tom Brady, and last year (in their bid for perfection) were ranked tops in the league in total offense – prior to that, for the past several years, it was their defense that was ranked among the best in the NFL. The dynasties of the 1990’s, the Denver Broncos and Dallas Cowboys, boasted the same. Denver had their elite quarterback in Elway and a top 5 offense (and in 1997, a top 5 defense, too). Dallas had Aikman and a top 5 offense throughout their reign. San Francisco was perhaps the greatest of them all. The '49ers won the Lombardi Trophy five times in the 80's and 90's behind the superior quarterback play of Joe Montana and Steve Young and consistently had offenses or defenses (and sometimes both) ranked in the top 5 of the league.

So if the formula for consistent success is a team with an elite quarterback and a top five ranking on one side of the ball, where do the Saints stack up right now? While Drew Brees may not be in the same category as Tom Brady and Peyton Manning, few would argue that he has not been an elite NFL quarterback the past two seasons. Last year he finished behind only Brett Favre and Tom Brady (but ahead of Peyton Manning) in passing yards; and in 2006, he led the entire league. While the Saints no longer boast the Dome Patrol defense, the team has had no issues finding offensive success over the past two seasons. They finished first in the league in total offense in 2006 and fifth in 2005. In common with past NFL dynasties, the Saints have an elite QB and a consistent top-five offense. With Sean Payton calling the plays for a team whose offensive starters average 27 years of age (25 for their three big playmakers, Brees, Colston, and Bush), it's safe to assume that there will be little if any drop-off in total offense over the next several years. The Saints window of opportunity is just beginning to open.

So far, however, even with those pieces, the Saints have failed to make it to the big game, which is less than every one of our division rivals can say. Carolina and Atlanta made the big game in 2004 and 1999 respectively, and Tampa Bay won it in 2003. Unfortunately for those teams it is 2008, and last I checked, Jake Delhomme and Tampa's five QB's (even if you combined their skill-sets) are not elite; and Atlanta will be hard-pressed to finish the season in the top twenty in offense or defense, much less the top five. Also, the once-vaunted defenses of the Panthers and Buccaneers are no longer as dominant. It's not that they are bad; quite frankly they're much better than what the Saints strutted out the past two seasons – but we're looking for top 5, remember. Sure, teams can win a Super Bowl without having an elite QB and top 5 offense or defense – the Giants proved that last year and, as mentioned above, Tampa proved it in '03 -- but they won't do it consistently. Teams need both. If the Baltimore Ravens would have had an elite quarterback to complement one of the best defenses in NFL history we may be talking about them as the great dynasty of the early 2000’s. Too bad Trent Dilfer, Elvis Grbac, Kyle Boller, or Steve McNair didn’t fit the bill as “elite.”

Teams that have the necessary ingredients do not have to make rash personnel decisions in order to remain competitive. They can be more patient. Recently, in negotiating with the New York Giants for tight-end Jeremy Shockey, the Saints proved they are not willing to mortgage their future; rather they exhibited the patience necessary to build a dynasty. The team made a fair offer for the tight end during the draft, but was rebuked. New York, reasonably so, demanded higher compensation than a 2nd and 5th round pick, but the Saints chose not to sweeten their offer. Since then, I have heard such things as "we should trade next year's first round pick for Shockey because we can win with him now, and there is no telling what next years' pick will produce." As for me, I was happy when Loomis didn't allow the Giants to force his hand in overpaying for Shockey, and believe we should not even consider giving up our 2009 first-round pick for him. I was happy when we didn't throw millions at Asante Samuel to lure him to New Orleans (much like the Buccaneers did when they made Jeff Faine the highest paid center in the league). I was happy when we refused to mortgage the farm for Glenn Dorsey (much like the Panthers did when they gave the Eagles a second and fourth-round pick in last month's draft and their first-round pick next year for a player who, by most accounts, was just the fourth or fifth best-rated lineman available – sorry Coach Fox, but Jeff Otah is not going to win Carolina the Lombardi Trophy either).

In the last two cases, teams have made personnel decisions that will put them behind the eight ball for the future all in hopes of competing for the playoffs this season. Why? Carolina and Tampa are not winning the Super Bowl this year. The Saints may not either, but at least we are not paying players and making draft moves that will short-change us for next year… or the year after. While Jacksonville was giving up the farm (four picks) for Derrick Harvey, the Saints gave up one third-rounder for Sedrick Ellis. When Carolina was sending 3 picks to Philly for Jeff Otah, the Saints were sending the Jets a mere fourth-rounder for Jonathan Vilma. While other teams in the NFC South tried desperately to answer all their personnel questions in one off-season, the Saints understood that it is not always prudent or possible to do so. They were content to leave a few needs unanswered when they refused to overpay for a tight-end or a corner back (remind anyone of Belichik?).

I understand that many Saints fans would rather just make the big game like Carolina did in 2004, or Atlanta did in 1999 (or preferably win it like Tampa did in 2003), and could care less about "building a dynasty." But why think small? Please don't buy in to that stupid cliché that states "the future is now!" People who think that way have little foresight. Teams that mortgage their future to win now have an itch and they scratch it. They truly believe that they are only one player away from winning the Super Bowl. But they will wake up to the reality that all they did was cripple their franchise.

As the 2008 season approaches, Saints fans should know that they cheer for a team that is very close to exploding through the weak NFC ranks. They follow an organization that is finally doing it the right way. The men running the show (Loomis and Payton) are building this team for the long haul, not the short. The Saints have their elite quarterback, Drew Brees, and one of the NFL’s top five offenses – and neither appears to be going away any time soon. Those are the two things dynasties are built upon. Rather than selling out for now, our front office is putting in for later. Fans should enjoy the ride – the next five years will be the best Saints history may have to offer.
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Old 05-18-2008, 09:26 AM   #9
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Re: rome was not built in a day.......

Originally Posted by Euphoria View Post
Yeah I like our 40 year plus plan at building a Super Bowl team.
You have been wwaaayyyy too positive lately Euph. I was starting to worry something may be wrong. Glad to see all is okay.
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Old 05-18-2008, 10:40 AM   #10
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Re: rome was not built in a day.......

LOL all it took was Faine to go and Eupha is a happy camper.
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