TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints
 

While the Bears took Tulane RB Matt Forte and TE Kellen Davis and Chiefs took TE Brad Cottam, the Saints opted for CB Tracy Porter in the 2nd round.

In time, I am optimistic that Porter will develop into a good NFL corner.

Meanwhile the Saints have three BIG problems RIGHT NOW:

No starting-caliber RB behind Deuce (2ACL's and a Microfracture surgery)
No starting-caliber TE period.
A lot of 'junk' at CB and S ( Aged and injured vets, unproven rookies, and safeties who get lost )

Anyone else think these are urgent problems to address?

Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints
 

i think that all of those positions arent necessarily need positions to fill ne more....just luxury to help them out...i think next year we will have to address them but nothing urgent....no last minute trades or ne thing....i think that we spent a lot of money on our CBs this offseason and they are hoping we are set for years to come now....i hope so too but i dont see it....i think its still our biggest weakness....TE could've been addressed easily by drafting one but we picked a CB mostly because we still needed one....i think eric johnson can hold it down for this year..thats if he gets better....as far as running back goes...im not gonna try it cuz ne time nebody says something about PT u get bombed with his supporters....i think next year we need to think about it..but not a need..Yet

Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints
 

Well I think Reggie will have a breakout year if he doesnt PT may be capable of carrying the load. As for the TE position Billy Miller to me is better than E.Johnson. As for Porter I cant judge him yet because preseason hasnt started yet. I could probably see Young getting better this year. As fot the other free agent Cb we picked up I dont know much about them we will just have to wait till the preseason starts. Im still a little iffy with some of the safties IMO.

Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints
 

'Just a luxury'??? You must be joking!

We don't have McKenzie ( Maybe by mid-season )
Deuce is not ready ( He should recuperate for a year )
Eric Johnson just had a knee scoped.
Miller can't block
Porter is a rookie
Glenn is ancient
Usama needs veteran coaching ( gets lost out on the field )
Jason David was a very big mistake ( Cover 2 corner with safety support )
Bullocks and Harper need better coaching ( they tend to be out of position )

I do like PT ( he is our Westbrook ) But even Westbrook is not a bruiser.
So we have 2 Westbrook's, Reggie and PT.
We need a beast who can stay on the field to run out the clock once we get a lead in the 4th quarter. ( See Eagles/Saints 06 )
We need a bruiser on 1st and goal to punch it in ( See Eagles/Saints 07 )

A beast can't be a beast on 2 bad knees just a couple of months after major surgery. This micro-fracture procedure requires substantial time to heal. One or two years to heal completely.

Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints
 

mike will not be ready but i have faith in randal gay and jason david stepping up...i think gay will start at least at #2 if not #1....i think david will start at #1 and be a lot better this year knowing now what he is expected to do..and with fear of losing his starting job

duece will be ready to start according to the FO and from his own mouth....he may not be the guy we've had for the past few seasons but our depth at RB allows him to run up the gut and then take him out....he can be our pounder when we need it....otherwise our playcalling allows for trickery and we dont necessarily hafta run up the middle to score on the goalline


Eric johnson had a setback in his knee recovery but our tight ends havent really been a problem the past few seasons....its obvious they could be upgraded but they havent been a big issue....miller doesnt need to block because most of our blocking schemes dont require the tight end to do too much....we pull a guard or the FB to help out the tight end....they can both catch pretty well and with a healthy johnson i think we could have a solid enough TE tandum....dont get me started on the shockey thing

i dont like the porter pick and ive been vocal about it but everybody including the saints FO and coaching staff loves him....he will fit our system in the future but for this year i think he will play mostly dime and ST....maybe gunner or PR....this kids a stud....i hope he pans out....Glenn will get little playing time i think but he will help out when/if jason david fails us again....usama was a rookie last year....of course hes goin to blow some coverages...i look for a big season in nickel or dime from him this year...he could be a surprise this year


Harper and Bullocks are both young....however...Payton is in love with them...idk y...i think we could replace bullocks....if our head coach has that much faith in them then i gotta give him props for seeing something in them that we dont....with an upgraded secondary i think they will get a lot better this year....especially with the veterans at CB coming in....maybe Glenn will move back to safety....maybe KK will play...who knows...we have a lot of depth in the secondary now


i dont think either one of them are a westbrook....he is more compact and still has the same speed to burn the defense....reggie doesnt have the build that westbrook does and PT is more of a younger stecker....he doesnt do ne one thing great....he can do ne thing ok....he is a jack of all traits....but he doesnt have that one ability that jumps out to u.....i think with duece back in the lineup we will be allowed to rotate in our RBs at will....we'll do what we do best....pass and have a solid run game compliment it....im looking for a big season this year

Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints
 

Yes, but a good defense can make those fears go away.

Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints
 

Almost every NFL team has upgraded their rosters in 08. Saints will have to be better than they were in 07 to compete.

To be effective you must have:

Starting-caliber, healthy players, who have been in the scheme and playbook throughout training camp. And have depth at key positions to overcome injuries.

Or you risk a bad start to the season ( See Saints 07, 0-4 )

I am concerned that the 08 Saints are not going to be able to compete at the highest level from Game 1, with the current roster and with current key injuries.

Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints
 

with an upgraded defense this year i think we will be back to our '06 form....i think our defense is even better than it was in '06.....i was kinda hoping we would get sammy knight back since he was available this offseason....i have more than a man-crush on him lol....he could've helped our safeties....as far as injuries go...i think we have enough starters on our team to make up for the ppl who are injured....Gay started on the pats behind asante samuel and hes a beast....easily the best DB in the league now...without samuel, gay would've started...now hes on our team and he will do what he does best.....david can move into nickel if need be....and our LBs are really the only health concern for defense....we still have our starters from last year so we have that to fall back on....we can only get better when vilma and morgan step on the field....our TEs have always been hurt and weve done fine with them.....no big deal yet...YET.......duece is the only big concern for the team...without him i have no doubt we will address the RB position...if he is healthy tho....we can pull off a great season

Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints
 

dont get me wrong tho....i think ne of these positions could be upgraded....i just dont see a fleeting need for it asap....we can have a great season without addressing those positions specifically

Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints
 

I completely agree with you on Sammy Knight. He is still a stud ( Lucky NYG )

I too was hoping he could come back to help Harper and Bullocks progress.

Draft Daddy shows S Mike Doss and CB Ty Law, still available. I believe that our secondary problems are more to do with poor coaching as well as no effective veteran mentoring or guidance.

We need a couple of talented vets to help compensate for the crappy Saints secondary coaching staff, since that position likely will not be upgraded.

Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints
 

Would either one of them really help us? i mean ty law is old and isnt much of an upgrade assuming he would be one at all. and mike doss is a bust. he was supposed to be a stud coming out of OSU but he ended up not helping ne body do nething. he might be an upgrade but he isnt going to put us over the hump. i dont know if coaching is as big a problem as the players in the positions but i agree. without a true defensive coach(jim haslett) we wont be able to help out the players too much.

Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints
 

By the way...welcome to B&G.

Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints
 

Here is my original post:

Saints 08 are going to have a tough time competing at a high level, given our current roster and current injury status and lack of quality depth at key positions.

Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints
 

I am a big Deuce fan. However, I am also, realistic. To get the best from Deuce, he must be given enough time to heal from the Microfracture surgery. Usually about one or two years.

Opponents already know about his knees and they will be a target. Putting him in now will just re-injure the knee. This will just add more rehab time and mentally, another setback may prove too much for him to bear.

If you look at moves by Bears, Panthers, Falcons, to name a few, they have drafted quality RB's to add depth behind their already potent starting RB's.

TE and DB are also significant weak spots.

Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints
 

what key position do we not have depth at?....we have depth at RB and CB if thats ur argument...the skill set might not be grade A but its good enough to get us by....im beginning to believe that with an improved pass rush we will be a lot better off in the secondary...ellis can take on 2 blockers every play..that leaves the gaps open for blitzing LBs or crossing DEs....again....our injuries are only a concern if the depth proves unworthy....the only injuries we have to worry about are our (new) LBs and duece....MM will be healthy by mid season and gay can step up to fill his position until then neway....Duece will be healthy to start the season and he will be used when we need him....we competed at a high level last year after the first 4 games...the only problem we will have is if we get off to a slow start....but then again...look at our schedule lol...i think the child saying: easy squeezy lemon peezy applies to our shedule

Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints
 

i agree that the pass rush will help our corners. even with jason david being slow as dirt it still takes a lot of time to get beat deep. our newly acquired defensive players wont allow that much time for a QB. we will get to the QB before jason david gets beat. that means a better season for all of our corners.

Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints
 

Your cup is more than 'half full'. Your cup 'runneth over'!!

Think back to the 07 Saints 0-4 start to the season. Why did we lose the first four games?

Terrible secondary performance and ineffective running game.

Payton was on NFL Network recently talking about the 0 and 4 start in 07.

What specifically have the FO done to address these weaknesses ??

Why were the 06 Saints successful? Effective running game keeps the opponent, not to mention mediocre Saints D off the field, and works the clock.

Porter is a rookie, Glenn is way past his prime and McKenzie is out. Usama and our safeties are lost on the field.

If Eric Johnson is our only hope at TE, as an outlet for Brees, he just had his knee scoped.

We have multiple weaknesses and our opponents know this and will be game planning accordingly.

Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints
 

Watch PT in the 07 Bears game to see what I am talking about. Elusive, shifty, hard to bring down and catches well out of the backfield. He started that game and broke Saints records for rushing and receiving in the same game.

These are the traits of Brian Westbrook. PT is a fine talent, but not a bruiser.

As I have already stated, I am a big Deuce fan, but playing him up the middle before his injuries have healed may end his career. None of us want that.

Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints
 

Miller can't block??????????
Miller was not brought in here for his receiving skills. Johnson is the one who was never known for his blocking. Miller is just a solid all around TE. Period. He does not excel at either but neither are a weakness. I would love to have another Miller on this team.

Johnson had a knee scoped, no biggie. So they will take it easy on him in camp but he be ok for the opener.

Most of the rest will work itself out on the field the more they play together. The saints are just starting to rebuild the defense this year. Give it time. Sure there will be up and downs but they WILL be greatly improved by the end of the season.

RB? do not know PT earned more playing time for now. It is his to loose. i would welcome a veteran presence but not a panic pricing.

Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints
 

Miller is a converted wide receiver and is not prototypical TE size.

His size is a disadvantage as a blocker, especially on goal line situations.

He has heart and deserves to be on the team, but I would like the Saints to get a couple of 'Beast' sized TE's for overall upgrade at the TE position

Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints
 

I don't feel your sense of urgency in your remarks. There is a window of opportunity for teams and I don't want it to close before Brees is past his prime.

The time is now and we are nowhere near ready to take on the elite teams, given injuries, lack of depth and mediocre players at key positions.

Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints
 

Saints had one of the best D's in the league in the 80's, but it wasn't enough.
The Ravens have one of the best D's, but they have not returned to the SB.

Good D is not enough. Teams that consistently get to the playoffs and SB, have excellent running games, as well as good D.

To help your running game, you must have a passing threat, et cetera.

To have a perimeter running game but no bruiser up the middle, lets your opponent, focus on stopping screens and slants.

With no TE threat, DB's can smother the WR's, and so on.

The elite teams get this and configure their teams to be effective at all of the above.

Perimeter runners, between the tackles runners, receiving tight ends, blocking tight ends, all help to keep the opponents D honest.

I don't feel like we have all these bases covered at the moment.

Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints
 

no team has everything covered.. all teams have weaknesses..
the best way to combat this is to find ways to mask your weaknesses and play to your strengths

that being said...


if you want to talk about a lack of depth.. the only place you really need to look at is the QB position... if brees goes down.. our whole season goes with him..

our only other real weakness right now is the lack of a bruising running back incase deuce goes down.. that doesnt mean that we dont have good depth at the position..

we have several descent TEs and while i would like to have the position upgraded with a better receiving TE.. its still on par with much of the leagues depth at TE and even without that huge threat at TE, defenses still had trouble stopping our offense

another thing i think could use some more help is the secondary.. we have alot of really young players and alot of really old players.. i would have felt better about the position if they would have brought in another young vet corner around the same age as Gay to compete but that didnt happen.. that being said.. i dont think it will be as big of a factor as it was last year based solely on the presence of Ellis and and improved pass rush, which should help mask alot of the problems in our secondary...
its not going to be as bad as everyone thinks it will be...

Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints
 

Yeah....what pak said

Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints
 

The 06 Saints and the 07 Saints were very similar personnel-wise. However, the 06 Saints had a much better season.

The difference was the running game. Our O stayed on the field with good third down stats and kept our D and opponent's O on the sideline.

I don't see any 08 solutions to the 07 problems.

RB / TE / DB

Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints
 

If you have a defense that can shut down opponents, then that strategy is fine. While our defense will be improved, its success will hinge as much on the offense's ability to put up points in a hurry and make the opponent 1 dimensional. I agree that we could use some "meat" in the backfield, but both Stecker and PT are capable of taking carries between the tackles and I think you will see a more patient Reggie this year. Keep in mind that you do not have to be 230-240 lbs to effectively run the ball between the tackles. I think we have the things that you are looking for. Periement runners (Reggie), B/t the tackles (Deuce, PT, Stecker), Recieving TEs (Johnson, Miller), Blocking tight ends (Miller, Campbell). I hear you on the injury concerns but keep in mind that the ball will be spread around for the RBs as will the snaps for the TEs. We arent asking Deuce to pound the ball 25-30 times a game. We arent asking Johnson hold his blocking point of attack on a trick knee for 40 snaps a game. Our offense finished 4th in the league last season. We add some experience to PT and Reggie. We get a even somewhat healthy Deuce back. We get Meachem playing time. If we finished 4th last season, the pieces are in place for us to finish in the Top 5 again this year as we have all what we had last year plus more.

Also, our bad start last year was a result of more than an ineffective, between the tackle run game. Drew was not playing as well. Our defense forced our offense to play from behind, thus limiting our run game. And our schedule was not a cake walk by any means in the first 3 games.

Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints
 

really.. are u serious?

in 06, we had deuce who came off of surgery just like this year and had one of the better years in his career, reggie.. who was a rookie in 06 and is now poised for a breakout year.. and stecker, who was a descent back up then and still is... and now we also have a good young player in PT..

i think you are undervaluing the presence of reggie.. he takes alot of heat off of the other guys just b/c of the gameplans that defenses put up just to stop him.. and if you think that they arent.. then you are sorely mistaken...


TE, which hasnt been a threat in N.O. for years wasnt really a factor in 06.. we still had the #1 offense in the league.. and in 07, we had the #5 offense.. even with an upgraded TE position from 06...

DB has been improved.. 06 we had fred thomas who was horrible and jay bellamy who was also horrible.... last year we had JD who was also horrible but had been playing in a zone heavy defense for the previous 4 years... i look JD to have a much better year, Harper has taken over for bellamy and has improved the play at the SS position...the addition of Gay will improve the depth at CB and McKenzie is coming off his best year as a DB and should be back to full form by the start of the season.. T. Porter an U. Young should both improve this year and will be fighting for a starting job either next year of the year after...


in addition to that... i think you are lookin at the wrong area of problems.. id say our biggest problem areas in 07 were DT, LB and CB and Oline.. we have improved the oline.. gotten a probowl MLB.. drafted a runstuffing penetrating DT who will take pressure off of w. smith and c. grant.. signed depth at LB and DE which will help our guys from getting worn out... we have signed several CBs which give us depth at the position...

id say our biggest problem in 08, is adding a better backup qb and finding another reciever to compliment colston...

Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints
 

The 08 schedule is tougher than 07 !

The opponents have upgraded. What have we done.

07 TE's Sucked
07 RB's Sucked ( Not PT )
07 DB's Sucked

08 TE Same
08 RB Same
08 DB Same ( Plus more rookies / old vets )

The only bona fide upgrade has been Ellis and McCray. This will help somewhat. But against elite teams ??

We have to do more. RB / TE / DB still a weakness that teams will exploit.

Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints
 

I would like a good CB, maybe another good safty... possibly a DT & Shockey would have been niiice...

;)

Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints
 

You are overrating the TE position so much.

We have had top 5 offenses with out a TE.. TE is definitely not a need. It would be nice, but not a need.

Not to mention we had the 5th overall offense with out a consistent rushing game.. Deuce will be back, and that will help Reggie out as well. Look at 2006 for some examples ;)

DB is also still an issue... but with our newly acquired pass rushing players, it should help out the DB's. they won't be one-on-one with the WR for a day and a half now..

Look at the big picture..

Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints
 

lol all i can do is laugh at this...



Vilma... does that ring a bell?



we have solid depth at RB, i dont know why ur still harping on this...

TEs are servicable... with all the other talent on offense, this is really a position of luxury.. not a need...

we have good depth at CB and with an improved pass rush, this area should be much improved...




im really not understanding the point ur trying to make... we have solid depth at every position ur are talking about... im not saying they are all superstars but your ARENT going to have that at every position...

we have upgraded every major need this past offseason and the saints should be one of the dominant teams in the NFC for quite awhile

Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints
 

Brunell is a serviceable backup to Brees. However, there may still be better out there. Tim Rattay, or maybe Gradkowski from Tampa or Redman from ATL.

With all these O Linemen on the roster, they ought to be able to protect Brees.
On that note, protecting Brees, as well as, helping the running game is why we need to upgrade the TE position significantly. Maybe Kyle Brady or similar.
I had my eye on Brad Cottam / Kellen Davis / Martellus Bennet in the Draft.

I'm pissed that we didn't get Matt Forte. That would have probably shut me up for a while. LOL

Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints
 

brunell is good enough to get some wins but we will only go as far as brees can take us...



which they did... only giving up 18 sacks last year.. which i believe was best in the league...


huh? how will getting any of those pass catching TEs upgrade the running game?


why would we need another backup to reggie bush...? he isnt a bruiser like deuce either... ill agree that we could use another big back, but we do not need another slashing back.. we have 3 of those already...

Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints
 

Let's talk about him when he actually takes the field and not before.


Losing Deuce in 07 severely hampered our O. We don't have him back yet and probably won't for 08. Can you say 'microfracture surgery'?

Serviceable skill position players make it tough to get a team to the SB. TE's are key positions for Colts, Chargers, Steelers, Broncos. All of those teams have been to the SB

More rookies and old veteran players do not equal better on the field production.

Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints
 

No, I meant real TE's, that can block in the running game as well as catch in the passing game.


Deuce 6'1" / 230lbs.

Matt Forte 6'2" / 232lbs, over 2300 yards rushing in one season. 4 back to back games with over 1000 yards rushing.

I don't have Matt Forte listed as a Scat Back.

why not? he is arguably the best LB the saints have had in over 5 or 6 years... just b/c he hasnt suited up for the saints yet doesnt mean a thing...



yes i can.. but obviously you dont keep up with recent news... since he is already running and will be ready for training camp...:rolleyes:


chargers havent been to the SB in 10 or 15 years.. the colts also have payton manning, marvin harrison, reggie wayne, an awesome Oline, and a very fast and punishing defense... the steelers made it to the SB with a good defense and a great running game.. the broncos had john elway and terrell davis.. as well as a beast of an Oline..


what about the patriots, or eagles? or seahawks? or bears? none of those teams had really great TEs, yet still made the superbowl...

my point is we dont need an awesome TE to make the SB, it is a luxury, not a need... i would love to have gotten shockey, i think he would have made our offense even more unstoppable.. but it wasnt a need..


no but experience and learning the system does...

besides Eric Johnson, the TEs we have are better blockers then pass catchers...





Matt Forte
Height: 6-1
Weight: 224 lbs.

and he isnt the bruiser that his height an weight suggest.. he is more of a finesse back then pounder


against Memphis, Army, UAB, and Southern Methodist

thats almost impressive... he had 73 yards against a real defense when they played LSU... 43 when they played Miss St...

Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints
 

I will comment on Vilma and his repaired knee after training camp


I confess that I am not a doctor, but after reading articles online about other players who have had this procedure done, it seems to be common for the recovery to take from one to two years.



Did you watch the Saints play the Colts and Bears in 06 and 07? Dallas Clark and Ben Utecht for the Colts and Desmond Clark and Greg Olsen for the Bears.
They killed the Saints!!

Gonzalez/Chiefs, Gates/Chargers, Daniels/Texans, Scheffler/Broncos, Witten/Cowboys, Ben Watson and Kyle Brady/Pats, JerramyStevens/Seahawks, LJ Smith(Franchise Tag)/Eagles, Kevin Boss and Jeremy Shockey/NYG, et cetera, et cetera.

Don't you want the Saints to win ???


The Eagles get it, the Raiders get it, the Cowboys get it. CB talent is rare and when you have an opportunity to get it - you get it !!!

Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints
 

He is listed now at 6'2" 232lbs. Which listing is more accurate?




If you downgrade the defenses he played, then you should also factor in the talent of his own team-mates at Tulane. I don't think his O-Line was invited to the Senior Bowl.
But he was invited to the Senior Bowl and was named Offensive MVP.

Apparently, the Bears thought more highly of his abilities than you do.

Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints
 

The Saints were 30th in the league in pass defense last year.

The Saints gave up 32 TDs in the air last year.

The Saints gave up 54 pass completions of 20 yards or more last year.

The Saints gave up 15 pass completions of 40 yards or more last year (tied for the league high).

On the other hand the offense finished 4th in yards and 12th in scoring last year.

I think taking a cornerback was a prudent move.

If his job is "Dude, cover that receiver and don't let him catch the ball." I think that Porter may actually turn out to be a good NFL corner this year.

I'll take that as a IYHO.

Hmmm. Let's examine that.

PT23 started against the Bears. He only rushed for a buck and caught a buck in passes in that start.

Reggie started against the Seahawks. Rushed for 97 with a 5.1 YPC average in that game.

Aaron Stecker started against Atlanta. Rushed for 100 yards on 20 carries.

Now while I will admit that for each this was their best performances last year, it shows that they have the capability to start for this team.

Payton doesn't run the ball with any consistency no matter who is back there. In 2006 Deuce only got 1057 yards on 243 carries. That's only 15 carries per game.

We have backs that will do the job the offense needs done.

Again please justify. The Saints two top TE caught 74 passes for 709 yards and 4 TD last year. Each of those stats were better than the coveted Jeremy Shockey. It's only one less catch than Gates (though admittedly his yards and TDs were much better)

And how exactly were they supposed to address that issue? There was only one premier CB in free agency. I understand the Saints made a play. He chose to go somewhere else.

The Saints signed 2 free agents and drafted a CB in the 2nd round. They also drafted a CB in the 3rd round last year. They signed a smart ballhawking safety in KK last year.

What exactly do you want them to do at the position?

I'm sure many will. I don't.

At RB we're running 4 deep. The problem seems significant last year because the top 3 backs all got injured. PT23 showed his heart in that Chicago game, and now Coach Payton will trust the guy enough to give him some playing time. He'll spell Deuce, which will make him available deeper into the season.

Could we benefit from having an All Pro TE? Pf course. But the guys we have have certainly proved serviceable, especially Billy Miller. I'm going to trust the staff on this one, because both Johnson and Miller were free agents, and the Saints resigned both guys. If they didn't fit into the scheme, they could have simply walked away from both of them.

The secondary problems have a primary cause from the front 7. Safeties needing to be up for run support coupled with a lack of pass rush left them exposed. When you make an insurance salesman (Redmond) and two rookies (Gray and Mohr) look like Pro Bowl QBs then you have a problem up front in addition to the secondary. With a significant upgrade both at DT and MLB, the pressure will shift from our secondary to the opposing QB. The Saints secondary is going to look at lot better in 2008.

The only urgency at this point is health. Guys like McKenzie, Deuce, Grant, Vilma, and Morgan have to be healthy and ready to contribute.

In closing I can see talking about the secondary. Their performance last year was flat awful. But I really don't understand the continual pounding on the offense. This offense runs off Drew Brees. As long as dude is upright, then everything else falls into place. Last year there were changes in receivers, backs, TE, and O-line positions. Still finished 4th in yards and 12th in points. Consider the constant in all of that.

SFIAH

Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints
 

My analysis is that you have to have both good O and good D in order to go deep into the playoffs.
I think effective running games is more like it. Think of the 49ers in the 80s. Roger Craig didn't rack up huge rushing numbers. But when he ran it was effective.

PT23 has shown the ability to run the ball inside.

Also while Deuce is certainly not going to be 100%, he will be available enough to do the job. Say he rushes 8-10 times a game and PT23/Bush/Stecker gets the other carries. That'll be enough to counterbalance the passing game.

If Sean Payton has shown nothing else in the last two years, it's that the Saints offense is a passing offense. The running game needs to be effective, even if it's only going to be 20-25 carries.

How is 74 catches last year not a threat? Teams that were stupid enough to ignore Miller and Johnson got burned by Brees over and over again.

Why are you even bothering to talk about the offense anyway? It bears repeating that they were 4th in yards and 12th in scoring in the league. You're coming into this discussion as if they were totally ineffectual last year.

While I'm the first to admit that this offense does have issues when it comes up against a top flight defense (Indy, Tennesee , Tampa last year for example), there are certainly enough weapons to counter the issues they present.

The Saints have all of these elements, and use all of these elements. I swear you're talking about the Ravens or Tennesee with an ineffectual offense.

Noted. However, at the end of the day the new player selection season is pretty much over. So what exactly are you proposing to do?

SFIAH