Brooks"I owned them pretty much the whole night with my eyes

WhoDat · 09-11-2003, 04:45 PM

OK Saintfan - I hear where you\'re coming from, I just think it\'s wrong. It\'s got nothing to do with my take on Brooks.

You and Billy seem to want to credit BROOKS for scoring 30+ points a game last season when in fact it was the SAINTS who scored all those points. I will agree that Brooks probably had more direct control over that than say Bentley or Turley, but I don\'t know if you can say he had a greater affect on it than th WRs, Deuce, or McCarthy. I mean, are we to credit Trent Green with scoring all those points for KC, or is Priest Holmes more responsible? Fiedler in Miami, or Ricky? Johnson in Tampa, or was it Gruden\'s system that really began to kick in in the playoffs?

Crediting Brooks for that is like saying, \"David Sloan is a great tightend. Why? B/c the Saints scored 30+ points a game last season.\" No, you evaluate Sloan based on HIS performance compared to other players at the SAME position - not based on how the TEAM played. It works both ways too. I used PLummer as an example in my last post to show how a team can hurt a player\'s stats. Archie is another good example.

The point is, in order to evaluate a plaer you compare him to his counterparts. That\'s what every NFL scout, coach, GM, etc. does. I\'m not comparing Brooks to past QBs, or comparing one year to another. I can\'t think of anything more fair than comparing him in 2002 (his best year so far mind you) to the other top 30 QBs in the league during the same season. (by the way - if teams statistics is all that matter he can\'t be higher than 12th, b/c we didn\'t make the playoffs).

I\'m not saying Brooks is a BAD qb. I think he\'s average - physically gifted, but a poor manager of the game. My beef is still what I perceive to be a mismatch of styles. He is not fitted for our offense. Just look at the other QBs like him. They are the only, or one of two, weapons on their team.

McNabb - He\'s it in Philly unless you want to count Duce.
Vick - He was it until Price came along
Culpepper - He and Moss are it
Carter - He got the job b/c the offense in Dallas is without play-makers
Blake - Unless Boldin keeps playing like he did last week, Blake is it in Zona.
Stewart - If you want to call Booker a weapon then he has Booker.

Now, consider the type of quarterback that the teams like ours have - teams with lots of weapons or a similar system - they\'re drop-back, efficient, physically unspectacular, game managers.

Oakland - Gannon
St. Louis - Warner/Bulger
Pittsburgh - Maddox
Buffalo - Bledsoe
Jets - Pennington
New England - Brady
Seattle - Hassleback
Indianapolis - Manning

Now c\'mon. Are you going to tell me that Brooks belongs on the guys at the bottom more than the guys at the top? We are forcing him to be something he isn\'t to fit our system. Everyone on the board is complaing about him not running anymore. It\'s not a matter of whether Brooks is good or not - look at some of the best QBs in the league right now and you\'ll see that they didn\'t get that way until they found the right system.

I\'m not in favor of benching him now, no, but I do thin kthat the Saints need to pursue other options at quarterback. I don\'t know how you don\'t see this. Is it just me guys? Am I missing something? Am I nuts? B/c this seems blatantly obvious to me. The meaningful stats that are used to compare quarterbacks put him average at best, he\'s the only QB in the league of his type playing in a system like ours, and you two can\'t see what\'s wrong?

Try this. Put Mario Bates in the backfield, Lorenzo Hill, Floyd Turner, and Eric Martin at WR, and make Sloan the TE and Carl Smith the coordinator - then Brooks is perfect for this team, but until that, they need to explore other options. And Billy, Saintfan... if Brooks really is a top 5 QB, why do you oppose giving someone else a shot? If he\'s that good we\'ll all see it right away huh? I know we didn\'t see much of Delhomme in a Saints uniform, but it didn\'t seem to me that he played noticably worse than Brooks.

Help guys - am I nuts or is this a no-brainer?

09-11-2003, 04:45 PM	#11
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Brooks"I owned them pretty much the whole night with my eyes OK Saintfan - I hear where you\'re coming from, I just think it\'s wrong. It\'s got nothing to do with my take on Brooks. You and Billy seem to want to credit BROOKS for scoring 30+ points a game last season when in fact it was the SAINTS who scored all those points. I will agree that Brooks probably had more direct control over that than say Bentley or Turley, but I don\'t know if you can say he had a greater affect on it than th WRs, Deuce, or McCarthy. I mean, are we to credit Trent Green with scoring all those points for KC, or is Priest Holmes more responsible? Fiedler in Miami, or Ricky? Johnson in Tampa, or was it Gruden\'s system that really began to kick in in the playoffs? Crediting Brooks for that is like saying, \"David Sloan is a great tightend. Why? B/c the Saints scored 30+ points a game last season.\" No, you evaluate Sloan based on HIS performance compared to other players at the SAME position - not based on how the TEAM played. It works both ways too. I used PLummer as an example in my last post to show how a team can hurt a player\'s stats. Archie is another good example. The point is, in order to evaluate a plaer you compare him to his counterparts. That\'s what every NFL scout, coach, GM, etc. does. I\'m not comparing Brooks to past QBs, or comparing one year to another. I can\'t think of anything more fair than comparing him in 2002 (his best year so far mind you) to the other top 30 QBs in the league during the same season. (by the way - if teams statistics is all that matter he can\'t be higher than 12th, b/c we didn\'t make the playoffs). I\'m not saying Brooks is a BAD qb. I think he\'s average - physically gifted, but a poor manager of the game. My beef is still what I perceive to be a mismatch of styles. He is not fitted for our offense. Just look at the other QBs like him. They are the only, or one of two, weapons on their team. McNabb - He\'s it in Philly unless you want to count Duce. Vick - He was it until Price came along Culpepper - He and Moss are it Carter - He got the job b/c the offense in Dallas is without play-makers Blake - Unless Boldin keeps playing like he did last week, Blake is it in Zona. Stewart - If you want to call Booker a weapon then he has Booker. Now, consider the type of quarterback that the teams like ours have - teams with lots of weapons or a similar system - they\'re drop-back, efficient, physically unspectacular, game managers. Oakland - Gannon St. Louis - Warner/Bulger Pittsburgh - Maddox Buffalo - Bledsoe Jets - Pennington New England - Brady Seattle - Hassleback Indianapolis - Manning Now c\'mon. Are you going to tell me that Brooks belongs on the guys at the bottom more than the guys at the top? We are forcing him to be something he isn\'t to fit our system. Everyone on the board is complaing about him not running anymore. It\'s not a matter of whether Brooks is good or not - look at some of the best QBs in the league right now and you\'ll see that they didn\'t get that way until they found the right system. I\'m not in favor of benching him now, no, but I do thin kthat the Saints need to pursue other options at quarterback. I don\'t know how you don\'t see this. Is it just me guys? Am I missing something? Am I nuts? B/c this seems blatantly obvious to me. The meaningful stats that are used to compare quarterbacks put him average at best, he\'s the only QB in the league of his type playing in a system like ours, and you two can\'t see what\'s wrong? Try this. Put Mario Bates in the backfield, Lorenzo Hill, Floyd Turner, and Eric Martin at WR, and make Sloan the TE and Carl Smith the coordinator - then Brooks is perfect for this team, but until that, they need to explore other options. And Billy, Saintfan... if Brooks really is a top 5 QB, why do you oppose giving someone else a shot? If he\'s that good we\'ll all see it right away huh? I know we didn\'t see much of Delhomme in a Saints uniform, but it didn\'t seem to me that he played noticably worse than Brooks. Help guys - am I nuts or is this a no-brainer?
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"