Brooks"I owned them pretty much the whole night with my eyes

WhoDat · 09-12-2003, 04:35 PM

That\'s interesting Billy - why is it more fair?

I\'ve said the exact same thing about Brooks in the past, and continue to.

1) he has poor mechanics
2) he makes bad decisions
3) he is not a Team Leader

Poor mechanics and bad decisions translates into low efficiency anyway. The only thing I add is that he is wrong for our system. Apparently that last point makes me COMPLETELY wrong and translates into me having a vendetta against Brooks, whereas Gator is just being fair. Why is it that you two disagree with what I say on principle? Is it b/c I argue my points as fervently as you two argue yours?

Can either of you, Saintfan or Billy, show me when you have ever admitted Brookshas any flaws? B/c I can show you PLENTY of times when I gave him credit.

BillyCarpenter1 · 09-12-2003, 04:39 PM

Aaron makes mistakes all the time. But as I\'ve said many times -- Every NFL QB makes mistakes in their first few years. You like stats so much, go back and look at 99% of QB\'s in their first few years. Be fair for god\'s sake.

BillyCarpenter1 · 09-12-2003, 04:57 PM

John Elway -- First 3 years

Passing Statistics

Year Team Comp Att Comp% Yds Yd/Att TD INT Sacked-Yds Rating
1983 Den 123 259 47.5 1663 6.4 7 14 28- 218 54.9
1984 Den 214 380 56.3 2598 6.8 18 15 24- 158 76.8
1985 Den 327 605 54.0 3891 6.4 22 23 38- 307 70.2

Drew Bledsoe -- First 3 years

1993 New England Patriots 13 12 429 214 49.9 2494 5.81 54 15 15 65.0
1994 New England Patriots 16 16 691 400 57.9 4555 6.59 62 25 27 73.6
1995 New England Patriots 15 15 636 323 50.8 3507 5.51 47 13 16 63.7

Troy Aikman -- First 3 years

1989 Dallas Cowboys 11 11 293 155 52.9 1749 6.0 75t 9 18 55.7
1990 Dallas Cowboys 15 15 399 226 56.6 2579 6.5 61t 11 18 66.6
1991 Dallas Cowboys 12 12 363 237 65.3 2754 7.6 61 11 10 86.7

Aaron Brooks -- First 3 years

2000 New Orleans Saints 8 5 194 113 58.2 1514 7.80 53 9 6 85.7
2001 New Orleans Saints 16 16 558 312 55.9 3832 6.87 63 26 22 76.4
2002 New Orleans Saints 16 16 528 283 53.6 3572 6.77 64 27 15 80.1

BillyCarpenter1 · 09-13-2003, 01:13 PM

believe THE REAL ISSUE here is:

DO YOU BELIEVE BROOKS WLL BECOME A BETTER QB IN THE NFL, SPECIFICALLY WITH THE SAINTS?

The issue of what he has done in the past shouldn\'t be the basis of what he will do because we just don\'t know.

Even if you compare him to other NFL QBs you still using such a Subjective standard that leaves Whodat with great amo for rebuttal.

I believe what I said in the previous Post. AB hasn\'t proved he\'s as good as he can be. However, he has played extremely well at times. That was then and this is now. So in conclusion stick to the main ISSUE here b/c it s a FACT AB has played well, but not well enough for himself, our coaches, or this team.

Gator -- Everyone is entitled to their opinion of Brooks. You say the REAL issue is if Brooks will get better and that\'s a true statement, however I believe that the REAL question is, does he deserve the opportunity to prove he will be better. Many folks believe he will and many believe he will not. But the real truth is we will never know unless he is given the chance.

Can you imagine the great QB\'s that would have never developed if coaches would have given up on them like some fans (you know who yor are) wanted them to do? If we used the same standards that memebers on here are using to bench or cut Brooks and apply them to other QB\'s that stuggled early in their carreers, you would have never seen a Drew Bledsoe, Troy Aikman, or John Elway get to the superbowl because you would have cut him.

Many memebers here keep screaming that Brooks makes poor decisions and can\'t read defenses and talk as if Brooks hasn\'t accomplished anything in the NFL. Well, let me tell you -- You don\'t throw for all the TD\'s and yardage that Brooks has done in his short carreer and not be able to read defeneses. To listen to some memeber you would think that a monkey was back there just throwing the ball up in the air and the great receives we have are responsible for the passing yardage and TD receptions.

WhoDat keeps asking the question, how long do you give Brooks to develop into a top 5 QB. Well let\'s look at that arguement:

Top 5 QB\'s 1999
1 Kurt Warner
2 Steve Beuerlein
3 Peyton Manning
4 Rich Gannon
5 Brad Johnson

Top 5 QB\'s 2000
1. Kurt Warner
2. Jeff Garcia
3. Brett Favre
4. Rich Gannon
5. Tom Brady

Top 5 QB\'s 2001
1. Chad Pennington
2. Rich Gannon
3. Trent Green
4. Brad Johnson
5. Peyton Manning

Looks to me like there are a bunch of QB\'s that have been in the league a lot longer than Aaron Brooks that are recieving top 5 money, that haven\'t made it on that list. WhoDat, do we cut all of those guys??? How much longer do we give those guys? That arguement doesn\'t hold water in my book.

Brooks has done just fine and isn\'t an elite QB just yet, but he had a fine year last year and let\'s see how he does this year.

BillyCarpenter1 · 09-13-2003, 08:00 PM

Gator -

That couldn\'t have been said any more brilliant if Jesus Christ had come down and explianed it himself.

09-12-2003, 04:35 PM	#81
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Brooks"I owned them pretty much the whole night with my eyes That\'s interesting Billy - why is it more fair? I\'ve said the exact same thing about Brooks in the past, and continue to. 1) he has poor mechanics 2) he makes bad decisions 3) he is not a Team Leader Poor mechanics and bad decisions translates into low efficiency anyway. The only thing I add is that he is wrong for our system. Apparently that last point makes me COMPLETELY wrong and translates into me having a vendetta against Brooks, whereas Gator is just being fair. Why is it that you two disagree with what I say on principle? Is it b/c I argue my points as fervently as you two argue yours? Can either of you, Saintfan or Billy, show me when you have ever admitted Brookshas any flaws? B/c I can show you PLENTY of times when I gave him credit.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

09-12-2003, 04:39 PM	#82
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Brooks"I owned them pretty much the whole night with my eyes Aaron makes mistakes all the time. But as I\'ve said many times -- Every NFL QB makes mistakes in their first few years. You like stats so much, go back and look at 99% of QB\'s in their first few years. Be fair for god\'s sake.
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

09-12-2003, 04:57 PM	#83
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Brooks"I owned them pretty much the whole night with my eyes John Elway -- First 3 years Passing Statistics Year Team Comp Att Comp% Yds Yd/Att TD INT Sacked-Yds Rating 1983 Den 123 259 47.5 1663 6.4 7 14 28- 218 54.9 1984 Den 214 380 56.3 2598 6.8 18 15 24- 158 76.8 1985 Den 327 605 54.0 3891 6.4 22 23 38- 307 70.2 Drew Bledsoe -- First 3 years 1993 New England Patriots 13 12 429 214 49.9 2494 5.81 54 15 15 65.0 1994 New England Patriots 16 16 691 400 57.9 4555 6.59 62 25 27 73.6 1995 New England Patriots 15 15 636 323 50.8 3507 5.51 47 13 16 63.7 Troy Aikman -- First 3 years 1989 Dallas Cowboys 11 11 293 155 52.9 1749 6.0 75t 9 18 55.7 1990 Dallas Cowboys 15 15 399 226 56.6 2579 6.5 61t 11 18 66.6 1991 Dallas Cowboys 12 12 363 237 65.3 2754 7.6 61 11 10 86.7 Aaron Brooks -- First 3 years 2000 New Orleans Saints 8 5 194 113 58.2 1514 7.80 53 9 6 85.7 2001 New Orleans Saints 16 16 558 312 55.9 3832 6.87 63 26 22 76.4 2002 New Orleans Saints 16 16 528 283 53.6 3572 6.77 64 27 15 80.1
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

09-13-2003, 01:13 PM	#84
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Brooks"I owned them pretty much the whole night with my eyes believe THE REAL ISSUE here is: DO YOU BELIEVE BROOKS WLL BECOME A BETTER QB IN THE NFL, SPECIFICALLY WITH THE SAINTS? The issue of what he has done in the past shouldn\'t be the basis of what he will do because we just don\'t know. Even if you compare him to other NFL QBs you still using such a Subjective standard that leaves Whodat with great amo for rebuttal. I believe what I said in the previous Post. AB hasn\'t proved he\'s as good as he can be. However, he has played extremely well at times. That was then and this is now. So in conclusion stick to the main ISSUE here b/c it s a FACT AB has played well, but not well enough for himself, our coaches, or this team. Gator -- Everyone is entitled to their opinion of Brooks. You say the REAL issue is if Brooks will get better and that\'s a true statement, however I believe that the REAL question is, does he deserve the opportunity to prove he will be better. Many folks believe he will and many believe he will not. But the real truth is we will never know unless he is given the chance. Can you imagine the great QB\'s that would have never developed if coaches would have given up on them like some fans (you know who yor are) wanted them to do? If we used the same standards that memebers on here are using to bench or cut Brooks and apply them to other QB\'s that stuggled early in their carreers, you would have never seen a Drew Bledsoe, Troy Aikman, or John Elway get to the superbowl because you would have cut him. Many memebers here keep screaming that Brooks makes poor decisions and can\'t read defenses and talk as if Brooks hasn\'t accomplished anything in the NFL. Well, let me tell you -- You don\'t throw for all the TD\'s and yardage that Brooks has done in his short carreer and not be able to read defeneses. To listen to some memeber you would think that a monkey was back there just throwing the ball up in the air and the great receives we have are responsible for the passing yardage and TD receptions. WhoDat keeps asking the question, how long do you give Brooks to develop into a top 5 QB. Well let\'s look at that arguement: Top 5 QB\'s 1999 1 Kurt Warner 2 Steve Beuerlein 3 Peyton Manning 4 Rich Gannon 5 Brad Johnson Top 5 QB\'s 2000 1. Kurt Warner 2. Jeff Garcia 3. Brett Favre 4. Rich Gannon 5. Tom Brady Top 5 QB\'s 2001 1. Chad Pennington 2. Rich Gannon 3. Trent Green 4. Brad Johnson 5. Peyton Manning Looks to me like there are a bunch of QB\'s that have been in the league a lot longer than Aaron Brooks that are recieving top 5 money, that haven\'t made it on that list. WhoDat, do we cut all of those guys??? How much longer do we give those guys? That arguement doesn\'t hold water in my book. Brooks has done just fine and isn\'t an elite QB just yet, but he had a fine year last year and let\'s see how he does this year.
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

09-13-2003, 08:00 PM	#85
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Brooks"I owned them pretty much the whole night with my eyes Gator - That couldn\'t have been said any more brilliant if Jesus Christ had come down and explianed it himself.
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

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