GATOR BITES (Titans Game Analysis)

WhoDat · 09-21-2003, 04:33 PM

Honestly, I\'m sick. We got owned. Completely.

The offense looked flat bad. The play calling made me sick. Here\'s an idea McCarthy - use the pass to set up the run. Spread the field and whip it around on the first couple of series - THEN go to Deuce to keep the D off balance.

A lot of questions about our D were answered for me today. The two real teams we played owned us. Seattle did what they wanted against us. So did the Titans. Granted, Seattle could be the best team in the NFC right now and the Titans are the winningest team in football over the last four seasons, but still. Quality opponents will have their way with us.

Here\'s an idea on special teams. Run the wedge to the MIDDLE of the f-cking field!!!!! We run the wedge AT the sideline. Lewis gets through the wedge on every damn return but can\'t go anywhere b/c all the D has to do is push him to the sideline. Give him a F-cking chance and let him cut to EITHER side of the field. He is dangerous in space, not tip-toing along the sideline!

I think McCarthy could over achieve while Zook was around, b/c I\'m guessing that Zook, who is a very good coach all around - not just defensively - helped a lot. Since then, McCarthy is over his head. So far, every week the game plan we\'ve come out with is the opposite of what we need to be doing. He\'s not nearly as good of a coach as I thought he was. Venturi puts his D in position to get abused.

I am completely disappointed in this tam all around. In fact, the guy I think who has been playing best for this team week in and week out (other than Grant and Whitehead, who have been very good) is Aaron Brooks. Yeah, I said it. Brooks has been playing very well for us. But it\'s not enough.

I think we lose to Indy next week and climbing out of a 1-3 hole in our division is going to be next to impossible. @ the Panthers could be another loss too. We might not get back on track until we play the Bears. 3-5 after 8 is looking optimistic to me right now.

BillyCarpenter1 · 09-21-2003, 04:36 PM

Thank you WhoDat. I completely agree with eveything you just said. There isn\'t one thing you just said that I disagree with.

blake6900 · 09-21-2003, 05:09 PM

Gatorman, your \"bottom line\" sounds a lot like last year. The defense sucks. Tebucky Jones was brought in to have a speedy, hard hitter at the safety position and now the Saints have a really fast guy who overruns plays and can\'t tackle. I don\'t think he even had one tackle in today\'s game. They brought in Orlando Ruff to be the middle linebacker and he couldn\'t unseat Darrin Smith. They brought in Johnathan Sullivan to be an anchor on the defensive line and he\'s been just that...an anchor who finally got his first sack last week against a second year expansion team with no offensive line and then he hurt his knee on the same play. They brought back Ashley Ambrose who not only has lost a step but now he\'s saying it\'s no big deal giving up a 24 yard reception...(hey Ashley, it was third and 15!). I could do this forever but you get the point.
But it wasn\'t just the defensive players\' fault. The coaches should have some idea who can and can\'t tackle before they sign them to a contract. It seems nobody who knew about Tebucky Jones was near as high on him as the Saints were. I\'ve already ranted about Rick Venturi...the sooner he goes the sooner the defense can get started on the road to recovery. Until then, that unit will continue to stink up the joint. Before last year he said the defensive scheme was too complicated so they were gonna simplify it. He said the same thing before this year. Well, it\'s pretty simple now...why bother trying to stop anybody. When your strong safety gets juked by a quarterback with all the moves of a potted plant, like David Carr, something\'s wrong.
Unfortunately the offense is pathetic as well. Brooks appears to have stopped making stupid mistakes so the receivers have decided to pick up his slack. If Haslett is such a \"taskmaster\" perhaps he should start fining players for dropped passes because if this keeps up he can kiss his job goodbye.
The bottom line is Haslett took the Saints to the playoffs for the first time in their history...with Mike Ditka\'s team. Haslett is responsible for this bunch and everything that happens to it and he better wake up and smell the coffee. He was supposed to be a very good defensive coordinator himself at Pittsburgh (that\'s why he got this job). So how come the Saints defensive squad has consistently gotten worse under his command? Rick Venturi, that\'s why...and if Haslett can\'t figure that out he probably needs to go as well. There\'s a fine line between sticking by your beliefs and convictions and being just plain stubborn. Keeping Venturi around is stubborn and it just might cost Haslett his job. It will surely cost Tom Benson ticket sales...

nocloning · 09-21-2003, 05:43 PM

Let\'s run Venturi out of town - sure.
However it\'s debatable who is responsible for personnel changes. I put less blame on Venturi and more blame on Haslett. With the 11 starters he had today, there was little Venturi could have done better. They were just dominated and every time they put themselves in a position to stop a drive individual mistakes kept it alive. Plus 39 minutes possession ... fat chance they\'ll stop the Titans.
This team can\'t possibly be as bad as it looked today. But I can\'t see how they will manage to beat a quality team like the Colts. We\'ll see.

lsusurfer · 09-21-2003, 05:51 PM

Nick Saban for coach 2004! I had to listen to the game on the radio, what happened to Duece, less than 10 yards rushing is bad, I don\'t care what kind of coaching there was he should of had more than that.

blake6900 · 09-21-2003, 05:53 PM

Gatorman, I agree with pretty much everything you\'ve said. I would only add this: Not only does the coaching staff need to understand what this team needs to become a winner, it needs to be more capable of judging talent in order to reach those needs. And frankly, I don\'t think they\'re able to judge talent that well. Haslett cans anyone he has a personal problem with, takes little if any responsibility himself and continually harps on the mental errors his team makes.

Well, Jim...you picked \'em to be on this team. It\'s a poor general that blames his troops especially after four years of being in charge.

BrooksMustGo · 09-21-2003, 06:00 PM

I\'m bitter.

When the team hired Hank Stram, I thought, \"Ok, growing pains behind us, we\'re going to make some progress.\"

When the team hired Jim Finks, I thought, \"Allright, the past failure is over, we have a guy who knows how to build a winner.\"

When Finks hired Mora, I thought, \"Ex-marine, we\'ll learn some discipline and we may not be pretty, but we\'ll win more than we lose.\" I still kind of like Mora, but then I don\'t (Mora was up and down with me--a lot of good teams, but never any GREAT teams)

When the team hired Ditka, I thought, \"Iron Mike did it before, maybe he can do it here. Maybe NOW we can go to the next level.\"

When Tom Benson said, \"I will take whatever steps necessary at the end of the regular season to make the New Orleans Saints a winning franchise.\" I believed him.

Then there was the 2000 season and I believed all over again. I thought, \"Now we are at the top of our game, a whole new world is open to us. We won\'t be a joke anymore, we\'ll be contenders. We can be competitive with anybody.\"

Now here we are, same old Saints. And honestly the fault today wasn\'t on Brooks. He\'s not the guy to carry a team on his back, but he didn\'t lose today\'s game either. I never was one of those guys who wore the bag on my head, but I really understand them now. What makes it so bad, is that for years there were teams like Tampa that were even worse than we were. To see them win the big game and for us to look like superstars one week and Stevie Wonder playing ping pong the next just eats me up.

I remember talking to a guy at the warehouse when they hired Ditka and I was really upbeat but George told me, \"They ain\'t never gonna be anything. They\'s always been losers and they\'ll always be losers. Nobody can fix what\'s wrong with them, the more excited you get about them, the more they kick you in the crotch.\"

Another guy I used to work with would say every Sunday night, \"They ain\'t worth a $#*!, but I\'m with \'em.\" So I guess that\'s where I am this afternoon. I\'m with \'em, I don\'t want to sell \'em to LA, but I\'m starting to think that George had a point. The team really punishes you for being a fan.

8 yards rushing... :casstet:

I\'m bitter.

WhoDat · 09-21-2003, 06:22 PM

Like I said a couple of months ago - the two biggest losses we\'ve had in the last two years are Zook and Meuller. Look at what happened to our ability to scout after Meuller left, and look at the defense after Zook left.

Signings and draft picks that were made under Meuller (and yes, last year\'s class counts b/c Meuller had already made most of the decisions on the draft BEFORE he got fired).

Under Meuller:
Horn, Brooks, McAllister, Howard, Grant, Bentley, Stallwortth, Bellamy, Carter, Pathon, Lewis, McAfee, Fred Thomas... That\'s our starting QB, all 4 wideouts, RB, the \"cornerstones\" of our D - howard and grant - young stars in Bentley, and Stallworth, and two special team Pro Bowlers. Other than Gandy and Fontenot, the rest of our O line as well... oh, and Grady Jackson too I think.

Now, let\'s look at Loomis:
T Jones, Orlando Ruff, Ambrose, Rodgers, Conwell, Sullivan. Of these guys, Conwell is the only one who looks like he\'ll pay off big to me. And Loomis had MORE cap room and MORE (or as many) picks than Meuller ever did.

Now, consider the defense. Under Zook - 2000: led the league in sacks and the D was at least top 12 or 13, though maybe not statistically. 2001: had more sacks then the year before, and was still at least top 15.

After he left, Venturi\'s D was 27th and got abused. So far, looks like more of the same. If this keeps up, I\'m ready for a change. Give me a new GM, coach, and coordinators. Saban is a nice thought. You guys think D Green still has it in him? Monty Kiffin would be fabulous, though he just signed a new contract and will probably never leave TB. Hell, Zook could get the boot in FLA - give him a chance to run the show. Coughlin? I dunno about him. Norv Turner\'s a coordinator isn\'t he? Could we lure him away? What about Al Saunders - KC\'s O-coordinator? Gil Haskell - Seattle\'s O-Coord? Thoughts?

WhoDat · 09-21-2003, 06:28 PM

Nope - now I\'ve got it. Lovie Smith. D get\'s better and maybe he learns enough from Martz to get this O wide open and slinging it around. Yep, that\'s my vote from here out. Lovie! Lovie! Lovie!

BrooksMustGo · 09-21-2003, 07:25 PM

Ted Cottrell would be an attractive choice too or Ty Willingham, but I can figure on him ever wanting to leave Notre Dame.

09-21-2003, 04:33 PM	#1
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	GATOR BITES (Titans Game Analysis) Honestly, I\'m sick. We got owned. Completely. The offense looked flat bad. The play calling made me sick. Here\'s an idea McCarthy - use the pass to set up the run. Spread the field and whip it around on the first couple of series - THEN go to Deuce to keep the D off balance. A lot of questions about our D were answered for me today. The two real teams we played owned us. Seattle did what they wanted against us. So did the Titans. Granted, Seattle could be the best team in the NFC right now and the Titans are the winningest team in football over the last four seasons, but still. Quality opponents will have their way with us. Here\'s an idea on special teams. Run the wedge to the MIDDLE of the f-cking field!!!!! We run the wedge AT the sideline. Lewis gets through the wedge on every damn return but can\'t go anywhere b/c all the D has to do is push him to the sideline. Give him a F-cking chance and let him cut to EITHER side of the field. He is dangerous in space, not tip-toing along the sideline! I think McCarthy could over achieve while Zook was around, b/c I\'m guessing that Zook, who is a very good coach all around - not just defensively - helped a lot. Since then, McCarthy is over his head. So far, every week the game plan we\'ve come out with is the opposite of what we need to be doing. He\'s not nearly as good of a coach as I thought he was. Venturi puts his D in position to get abused. I am completely disappointed in this tam all around. In fact, the guy I think who has been playing best for this team week in and week out (other than Grant and Whitehead, who have been very good) is Aaron Brooks. Yeah, I said it. Brooks has been playing very well for us. But it\'s not enough. I think we lose to Indy next week and climbing out of a 1-3 hole in our division is going to be next to impossible. @ the Panthers could be another loss too. We might not get back on track until we play the Bears. 3-5 after 8 is looking optimistic to me right now.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

09-21-2003, 04:36 PM	#2
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	GATOR BITES (Titans Game Analysis) Thank you WhoDat. I completely agree with eveything you just said. There isn\'t one thing you just said that I disagree with.
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

09-21-2003, 05:09 PM	#3
blake6900 100th Post Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 182	GATOR BITES (Titans Game Analysis) Gatorman, your \"bottom line\" sounds a lot like last year. The defense sucks. Tebucky Jones was brought in to have a speedy, hard hitter at the safety position and now the Saints have a really fast guy who overruns plays and can\'t tackle. I don\'t think he even had one tackle in today\'s game. They brought in Orlando Ruff to be the middle linebacker and he couldn\'t unseat Darrin Smith. They brought in Johnathan Sullivan to be an anchor on the defensive line and he\'s been just that...an anchor who finally got his first sack last week against a second year expansion team with no offensive line and then he hurt his knee on the same play. They brought back Ashley Ambrose who not only has lost a step but now he\'s saying it\'s no big deal giving up a 24 yard reception...(hey Ashley, it was third and 15!). I could do this forever but you get the point. But it wasn\'t just the defensive players\' fault. The coaches should have some idea who can and can\'t tackle before they sign them to a contract. It seems nobody who knew about Tebucky Jones was near as high on him as the Saints were. I\'ve already ranted about Rick Venturi...the sooner he goes the sooner the defense can get started on the road to recovery. Until then, that unit will continue to stink up the joint. Before last year he said the defensive scheme was too complicated so they were gonna simplify it. He said the same thing before this year. Well, it\'s pretty simple now...why bother trying to stop anybody. When your strong safety gets juked by a quarterback with all the moves of a potted plant, like David Carr, something\'s wrong. Unfortunately the offense is pathetic as well. Brooks appears to have stopped making stupid mistakes so the receivers have decided to pick up his slack. If Haslett is such a \"taskmaster\" perhaps he should start fining players for dropped passes because if this keeps up he can kiss his job goodbye. The bottom line is Haslett took the Saints to the playoffs for the first time in their history...with Mike Ditka\'s team. Haslett is responsible for this bunch and everything that happens to it and he better wake up and smell the coffee. He was supposed to be a very good defensive coordinator himself at Pittsburgh (that\'s why he got this job). So how come the Saints defensive squad has consistently gotten worse under his command? Rick Venturi, that\'s why...and if Haslett can\'t figure that out he probably needs to go as well. There\'s a fine line between sticking by your beliefs and convictions and being just plain stubborn. Keeping Venturi around is stubborn and it just might cost Haslett his job. It will surely cost Tom Benson ticket sales...
blake6900 100th Post Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 182

09-21-2003, 05:43 PM	#4
nocloning 100th Post Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 302	GATOR BITES (Titans Game Analysis) Let\'s run Venturi out of town - sure. However it\'s debatable who is responsible for personnel changes. I put less blame on Venturi and more blame on Haslett. With the 11 starters he had today, there was little Venturi could have done better. They were just dominated and every time they put themselves in a position to stop a drive individual mistakes kept it alive. Plus 39 minutes possession ... fat chance they\'ll stop the Titans. This team can\'t possibly be as bad as it looked today. But I can\'t see how they will manage to beat a quality team like the Colts. We\'ll see.
nocloning 100th Post Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 302	\"What is Wal-Mart? Is it like they sell wall stuff?\"

09-21-2003, 05:51 PM	#5
lsusurfer Registered Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 74	GATOR BITES (Titans Game Analysis) Nick Saban for coach 2004! I had to listen to the game on the radio, what happened to Duece, less than 10 yards rushing is bad, I don\'t care what kind of coaching there was he should of had more than that.
lsusurfer Registered Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 74

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09-21-2003, 05:53 PM	#6
blake6900 100th Post Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 182	GATOR BITES (Titans Game Analysis) Gatorman, I agree with pretty much everything you\'ve said. I would only add this: Not only does the coaching staff need to understand what this team needs to become a winner, it needs to be more capable of judging talent in order to reach those needs. And frankly, I don\'t think they\'re able to judge talent that well. Haslett cans anyone he has a personal problem with, takes little if any responsibility himself and continually harps on the mental errors his team makes. Well, Jim...you picked \'em to be on this team. It\'s a poor general that blames his troops especially after four years of being in charge.
blake6900 100th Post Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 182

09-21-2003, 06:00 PM	#7
BrooksMustGo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,762	GATOR BITES (Titans Game Analysis) I\'m bitter. When the team hired Hank Stram, I thought, \"Ok, growing pains behind us, we\'re going to make some progress.\" When the team hired Jim Finks, I thought, \"Allright, the past failure is over, we have a guy who knows how to build a winner.\" When Finks hired Mora, I thought, \"Ex-marine, we\'ll learn some discipline and we may not be pretty, but we\'ll win more than we lose.\" I still kind of like Mora, but then I don\'t (Mora was up and down with me--a lot of good teams, but never any GREAT teams) When the team hired Ditka, I thought, \"Iron Mike did it before, maybe he can do it here. Maybe NOW we can go to the next level.\" When Tom Benson said, \"I will take whatever steps necessary at the end of the regular season to make the New Orleans Saints a winning franchise.\" I believed him. Then there was the 2000 season and I believed all over again. I thought, \"Now we are at the top of our game, a whole new world is open to us. We won\'t be a joke anymore, we\'ll be contenders. We can be competitive with anybody.\" Now here we are, same old Saints. And honestly the fault today wasn\'t on Brooks. He\'s not the guy to carry a team on his back, but he didn\'t lose today\'s game either. I never was one of those guys who wore the bag on my head, but I really understand them now. What makes it so bad, is that for years there were teams like Tampa that were even worse than we were. To see them win the big game and for us to look like superstars one week and Stevie Wonder playing ping pong the next just eats me up. I remember talking to a guy at the warehouse when they hired Ditka and I was really upbeat but George told me, \"They ain\'t never gonna be anything. They\'s always been losers and they\'ll always be losers. Nobody can fix what\'s wrong with them, the more excited you get about them, the more they kick you in the crotch.\" Another guy I used to work with would say every Sunday night, \"They ain\'t worth a $#*!, but I\'m with \'em.\" So I guess that\'s where I am this afternoon. I\'m with \'em, I don\'t want to sell \'em to LA, but I\'m starting to think that George had a point. The team really punishes you for being a fan. 8 yards rushing... :casstet: I\'m bitter.
	http://www.blackandgold.net/site/signature/buddysig.jpg

09-21-2003, 06:22 PM	#8
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	GATOR BITES (Titans Game Analysis) Like I said a couple of months ago - the two biggest losses we\'ve had in the last two years are Zook and Meuller. Look at what happened to our ability to scout after Meuller left, and look at the defense after Zook left. Signings and draft picks that were made under Meuller (and yes, last year\'s class counts b/c Meuller had already made most of the decisions on the draft BEFORE he got fired). Under Meuller: Horn, Brooks, McAllister, Howard, Grant, Bentley, Stallwortth, Bellamy, Carter, Pathon, Lewis, McAfee, Fred Thomas... That\'s our starting QB, all 4 wideouts, RB, the \"cornerstones\" of our D - howard and grant - young stars in Bentley, and Stallworth, and two special team Pro Bowlers. Other than Gandy and Fontenot, the rest of our O line as well... oh, and Grady Jackson too I think. Now, let\'s look at Loomis: T Jones, Orlando Ruff, Ambrose, Rodgers, Conwell, Sullivan. Of these guys, Conwell is the only one who looks like he\'ll pay off big to me. And Loomis had MORE cap room and MORE (or as many) picks than Meuller ever did. Now, consider the defense. Under Zook - 2000: led the league in sacks and the D was at least top 12 or 13, though maybe not statistically. 2001: had more sacks then the year before, and was still at least top 15. After he left, Venturi\'s D was 27th and got abused. So far, looks like more of the same. If this keeps up, I\'m ready for a change. Give me a new GM, coach, and coordinators. Saban is a nice thought. You guys think D Green still has it in him? Monty Kiffin would be fabulous, though he just signed a new contract and will probably never leave TB. Hell, Zook could get the boot in FLA - give him a chance to run the show. Coughlin? I dunno about him. Norv Turner\'s a coordinator isn\'t he? Could we lure him away? What about Al Saunders - KC\'s O-coordinator? Gil Haskell - Seattle\'s O-Coord? Thoughts?
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

09-21-2003, 06:28 PM	#9
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	GATOR BITES (Titans Game Analysis) Nope - now I\'ve got it. Lovie Smith. D get\'s better and maybe he learns enough from Martz to get this O wide open and slinging it around. Yep, that\'s my vote from here out. Lovie! Lovie! Lovie!
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

09-21-2003, 07:25 PM	#10
BrooksMustGo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,762	GATOR BITES (Titans Game Analysis) Ted Cottrell would be an attractive choice too or Ty Willingham, but I can figure on him ever wanting to leave Notre Dame.