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NFL COMBINE: DT's and LB's work out today and tomorrow!!
I'll be updating this thread as I get news on how the players I think the Saints might have interest in perform over the next two days.
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Re: NFL COMBINE: DT's and LB's work out today and tomorrow!!
Sean Weahterspoon just ran a 4.57 unofficial on his first 40 yd dash attempt. He looks really solid at 6'0 3/4" and 243 lbs.
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Re: NFL COMBINE: DT's and LB's work out today and tomorrow!!
yer ive heard good things about weatherspoon, could really give us speed on the edge that we need!!
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Re: NFL COMBINE: DT's and LB's work out today and tomorrow!!
He just posted an unofficial 4.59 on his second attempt. Real solid build.
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Re: NFL COMBINE: DT's and LB's work out today and tomorrow!!
Weatherspoon also posted the second best number for LB's so far on the bench press at 34 reps at 225 lbs.
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Re: NFL COMBINE: DT's and LB's work out today and tomorrow!!
DT Brian Price - 34 reps on the bench
DE Everson Griffen 32 reps DE Brandon Graham - 31 reps |
Re: NFL COMBINE: DT's and LB's work out today and tomorrow!!
Name Time
Davis, Dexter 4.64 Griffen, Everson 4.66 Moats, Arthur 4.66 Hughes, Jerry 4.69 Sapp, Ricky 4.70 Dunlap, Carlos 4.71 Kindle, Sergio 4.71 Graham, Brandon 4.72 Worilds, Jason 4.72 Alem, Rahim 4.75 |
Re: NFL COMBINE: DT's and LB's work out today and tomorrow!!
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how often are they going to be sprinting for 40 yards down field?.....id rather see their verticals, broad jumps, and 3 cone drills |
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They haven't done any of those drills yet. I'm just reporting numbers as they do the drills. |
Re: NFL COMBINE: DT's and LB's work out today and tomorrow!!
Vertical Jump for LB's so far today:
Name Height Clayton, Keenan 41.5 Lawrence, Simoni 40.0 Watson, Dekoda 40.0 Weatherspoon, Sean 40.0 Beauchamp, Jason 39.5 |
Re: NFL COMBINE: DT's and LB's work out today and tomorrow!!
I'm starting to wonder if this is such a good draft for defensive linemen that we should draft Weatherspoon first and pick up a DT or DE in the second round.
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Re: NFL COMBINE: DT's and LB's work out today and tomorrow!!
From ESPN.com
"Massive Alabama DT Terrence Cody has shed some weight but still ran the slowest 40-yard dash time of his group at 5.68 seconds. In fairness, though, Cody's 40 time doesn't much matter because he will primarily be occupying blockers and eating up space in the middle of the 3-4 defense." What a burner! |
Re: NFL COMBINE: DT's and LB's work out today and tomorrow!!
The Saints run a 4-3 base package the last time I checked.
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Re: NFL COMBINE: DT's and LB's work out today and tomorrow!!
More from ESPN.com
South Florida's Jason Pierre-Paul and Georgia Tech's Derrick Morgan both project as 4-3 defensive ends, and nothing we saw Monday changed our minds about their high-first-round grades. Both did a good job of opening their hips, and they occasionally can drop into underneath coverage on zone blitzes. However, they had difficult times bending their knees while backpedaling and didn't appear as comfortable in space, so their contributions in that area could be limited. • Missouri OLB Sean Weatherspoon has been impressive thus far. After weighing in at 239 pounds and measuring 6-1⅜, he put up 34 reps on the 225-pound bench press, then posted an unofficial 40-yard dash time of 4.57 seconds. That comes as little surprise, though, given the above-average range we saw from him both on film and at the Senior Bowl. • Virginia Tech's Cody Grimm is an interesting prospect. Grimm appears instinctive and relentless on film, but he played outside linebacker in college and is just not big enough to line up there in the NFL. He measured just 5-10⅞ and 203 pounds and would be a better fit at safety, where he would have the potential to develop into an adequate reserve and special-teams contributor. Grimm's 4.54 time in the 40 is encouraging because the average time for safeties last year was 4.63 seconds and in 2008 was 4.55 seconds. |
Re: NFL COMBINE: DT's and LB's work out today and tomorrow!!
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Re: NFL COMBINE: DT's and LB's work out today and tomorrow!!
We aren't drafting Cody. It's a promise friend.
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cody is just as much an option as anybody i believe he is a high priority for this team and i wouldnt be surpised to see us take either him or another DT that is projected as solely a 3-4 NT |
Re: NFL COMBINE: DT's and LB's work out today and tomorrow!!
I still say they will draft the Best Player Available.
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Re: NFL COMBINE: DT's and LB's work out today and tomorrow!!
As long as its the BPA on defense, I don't have a problem with that logic.
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Re: NFL COMBINE: DT's and LB's work out today and tomorrow!!
Combine's stupid, IMO. What are they gonna find out there that they don't already know...whether he's healthy or not? Anything else should already be on paper and video. Who's to say he's not gonna get hurt between the combine and draft?
Oh yeah...NFLN probably sells commercials at a much higher premium during that time. |
Re: NFL COMBINE: DT's and LB's work out today and tomorrow!!
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And just so you know, we didn't run a 3-4 for a majority of the Superbowl. We ran a 3-3-5, with the knowlege that we were playing Peyton Manning. The only QB who gets rid of the football faster than Brees. We played back with an extra DB and blitzed Manning on 3 plays all game, waiting for him to make a mistake which he finally did to Porter. Just because we ran an exotic package for a good portion of one game against a superior QB doesn't mean dick when it comes to the Defense we ran for the majority of the season. We don't have the OLB to play 3-4 and rush the passer, and we don't have the ILB with bulk to play the 3-4. See how happy Will Smith is when you move him inside in a 3-4 and take away his opportunities to get sacks. Yeah, that would be a really smart move. The fact of the matter is that there are a ton of great DT, and DE in this draft that fit our scheme. Cody is not one of them, and as I said before, I will come back and apologize to you if we select him. I have doubts that he will even be on the board when we pick though. Too many teams are moving to a 3-4 and need a NT. |
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and heres another thing......cody's biggest strength is stopping the run.... a 4-3 is best designed to stop the run.....why wouldnt we draft a player who best fits a defense to stop the run? even when we played with 4 defensive linemen, other teams still ran all over us im not trying to be facetious.....and this argument has clearly been beaten to a pulp in only 2 short weeks......thats unfortunate |
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Re: NFL COMBINE: DT's and LB's work out today and tomorrow!!
Best of 3 Cone Drill Numbers DT & LB
DT: Name Time Gibson, Thaddeus 6.84 Te'o-Nesheim, Daniel 6.91 Worilds, Jason 6.95 Hughes, Jerry 6.99 Galette, Junior 7.04 Misi, Koa 7.07 Davis, Dexter 7.08 Tracy, Adrian 7.08 Morgan, Derrick 7.12 Alualu, Tyson 7.15 LB: Name Time Grimm, Cody 6.58 Bosworth, Kyle 6.67 McLaughlin, Mike 6.85 Hull, Josh 6.86 Chaney, Jamar 6.90 Bowman, Navorro 6.91 Goethel, Travis 6.93 Kristick, Keaton 6.96 Riley, Perry 6.97 Spikes, Brandon 6.97 |
Re: NFL COMBINE: DT's and LB's work out today and tomorrow!!
20 Yd Shuttle Best Numbers DT & LB's:
DT: Name Time Hughes, Jerry 4.15 Galette, Junior 4.16 Te'o-Nesheim, Daniel 4.18 McClellan, Albert 4.21 Gibson, Thaddeus 4.27 Misi, Koa 4.27 Worilds, Jason 4.29 Davis, Dexter 4.30 Tracy, Adrian 4.34 Moats, Arthur 4.37 LB: Name Time Hull, Josh 4.07 Bosworth, Kyle 4.11 McLaughlin, Mike 4.11 Watson, Dekoda 4.11 Kristick, Keaton 4.21 Norwood, Eric 4.23 Riley, Perry 4.25 Edds, A.J. 4.28 Angerer, Pat 4.29 Chaney, Jamar 4.29 |
Re: NFL COMBINE: DT's and LB's work out today and tomorrow!!
Best of 60 yd Shuttle
LB: Name Time Hull, Josh 11.31 Kristick, Keaton 11.33 Watson, Dekoda 11.35 Chaney, Jamar 11.46 Bowman, Navorro 11.52 Weatherspoon, Sean 11.59 Bosworth, Kyle 11.65 Coleman, Harry 11.67 |
Re: NFL COMBINE: DT's and LB's work out today and tomorrow!!
More Combine information from ESPN:
Monday's crop of defensive front-seven talent -- particularly the linemen -- was as strong as the NFL scouting combine has seen in years. From the conversion ends showcasing their speed to the battles waged between the top prospects at defensive end (South Florida's Jason Pierre-Paul versus Georgia Tech's Derrick Morgan) and defensive tackle (Nebraska's Ndamukong Suh versus Oklahoma's Gerald McCoy), there was no shortage of storylines to follow inside Lucas Oil Stadium. Unfortunately, Alabama ILB Rolando McClain's hamstring injury also was one of the featured stories. McClain did not run or participate in any drills because he apparently is continuing to rehab a previously unreported hamstring injury. Fair or not, there's a feeling among some scouts that McClain's decision not to run is driven at least in part by his anxiety over posting a subpar 40 time. However, the 6-foot-3, 254-pound inside linebacker reportedly plans to fully participate in Alabama's upcoming pro day March 10. Even with McClain's unexpected absence, the participation level was unusually strong, and it led to a highly skilled and highly competitive testing session. Here's our scouting breakdown of the day's events: Conversion ends [+] Enlarge AP Photo/Michael Conroy Jerry Hughes looked good in all facets of the combine workout.The demand for pass-rushers in the NFL is endless, and it appears the 2010 class has plenty to offer in the way of supply, particularly in the form of undersized college defensive ends who can or must become 3-4 outside linebackers. No player improved his stock more than TCU's Jerry Hughes. At 6-2 and 255 pounds, the undersized edge rusher put to rest any concerns regarding his top-end speed when he ran an official 40-yard dash time of 4.69 seconds, fourth-best among the defensive linemen. His fluidity in space was better than we thought it would be based on his film. Hughes stayed low and changed directions smoothly, which gives teams extra confidence in his potential to convert to outside linebacker in an odd-man front. Finally, Hughes exceeded expectations with 26 repetitions on the 225-pound bench press. This strong workout in addition to the explosive pass-rushing ability he displays on tape should land Hughes a spot in the second round of the upcoming draft. Sergio Kindle of Texas certainly looked the part at a chiseled 6-3 and 250 pounds. While there are concerns about his ability to hold up against the run, Kindle showed the explosion, loose hips and burst out of his breaks to drop into coverage at the next level. Kindle, who projects as a mid-first round pick, should have little trouble making the conversion. At 6-3 and 273 pounds, USC's Everson Griffen turned in the second-best 40 time among the defensive ends with an official 4.66, verifying his explosiveness and top-end speed, and his 32 repetitions on the 225-pound bench press confirmed the upper-body power we see from him on tape. We think Griffen is a better fit as a 4-3 end, but he is capable of holding up in space as well. Regardless, Griffen could prove to be a hot commodity for teams in search of an upgrade at defensive end in the bottom half of Round 1, such as the Eagles at pick No. 24. Ohio State's Thaddeus Gibson often dropped into coverage for the Buckeyes, so it comes as no surprise that he displayed good footwork through the bags and opened his hips smoothly throughout position-specific drills. Gibson is undersized at 6-2 and 243 pounds, but his upper-body power was on display when he hoisted 32 reps on the standard 225-pound bench press. Gibson is raw as a pass-rusher and open-field tackler, but few hybrid DE/OLB prospects in this class are blessed with as much natural ability, which is why he will be gone in the first two rounds. We also liked the athleticism, burst and explosiveness we saw from Virginia Tech's Jason Worilds. Measuring 6-1 and 255 pounds, Worilds looked smooth in space and showed quick feet during bag work. He also put up 24 reps on the bench. If Worilds falls out of the first two rounds, it will have everything to do with long-term durability concerns, specifically regarding his shoulders. Clemson's Ricky Sapp (6-3⅞, 252) posted a 4.70 in the 40 and will hold up in space, and Utah's Koa Misi (6-2⅝, 251) looked quick in change-of-direction drills as well. Finally, sleeper prospect Arthur Moats (6-2¼) lived up to the buzz he generated coming in with an official 4.66, and quickness and explosiveness in drills. Moats has 34.6-inch arms and put up 24 reps on the bench to open some eyes. On a side note, Michigan's Brandon Graham (6-1⅜, 268) had his day cut short after he tweaked his hamstring during the 40. Graham still posted a 4.72 (eighth-best among defensive linemen) on his first 40-yard dash attempt, and his 31 reps on the bench were in line with the strong punch we see on film. The minor injury will not hurt Graham, who is the top-rated OLB prospect on our board and should be selected in the top 20 picks overall. McCoy vs. Suh The top two defensive tackles -- and top two overall players -- on our board took the field Monday, and McCoy and Suh did nothing to hurt themselves in our eyes. Suh's overall day was a bit better. He checked in at 6-4 and 307 pounds, and his 40 time of 4.98 was more than adequate. Suh also put up 32 reps on the bench press, showcasing the upper-body power that allows him to lock onto and control blockers before discarding them. His strength also showed up when he was punching the bags during drills, impacts that echoed throughout the stadium. McCoy measured 6-4 but a little lighter at 295, and his 23 reps were a little disappointing. Still, he ran a 4.96 and was able to showcase his outstanding quickness (feet and hands) during position-specific drills. There has been a strong buzz in Indianapolis this week regarding the St. Louis Rams' interest in Oklahoma QB Sam Bradford with the top overall pick, but don't expect Suh or McCoy to fall far even if that scenario plays out. In fact, there's a high likelihood they'll be the next two players off the board to a pair of teams -- the Detroit Lions (No. 2) and Tampa Bay Buccaneers (No. 3) -- starving for difference-makers along the defensive front. Production vs. potential at DE [+] Enlarge AP Photo/Michael Conroy A well-rounded game could put Derrick Morgan atop the DE rankings.Our two top-rated defensive ends -- Pierre-Paul and Morgan -- delivered strong showings Monday as well. Pierre-Paul measured just shy of 6-5 and at 270 pounds was a little heavier than we expected. That's a good thing, though, because there are some concerns about his ability to hold up against the run. He also has the kind of length that makes scouts salivate with 34¾ arms and 10⅜ hands. What makes Pierre-Paul so special, though, is his best-in-class quickness. He ran a 4.67 and moved very well for his size, the kind of tools that give him the potential to be a dominant pass-rusher at the next level. His bench press was only 19 reps and he needs to develop his upper-body strength, but Pierre-Paul has a very high ceiling. Morgan also had an impressive showing, checking in at 6-3, 266, with 34.4 arms before posting a 4.72 in the 40. He was not as quick or explosive as Pierre-Paul but moved just as well in space, looking very smooth and fluid. Morgan knows how to get to the quarterback, too, and he shows much better ability to set the edge and hold his ground against the run. Overall, Morgan is the more polished and complete prospect. We consider him more NFL-ready than Pierre-Paul at this point, and for that reason, Morgan could move ahead of him to the top of the defensive end rankings. Defensive tackle report Tennessee's Dan Williams continues to separate himself from the rest of the two-gap defensive tackle prospects in the class. He measured 6-2 and 327, moving his feet well for his size and looking fluid during drills. Williams is not the most elite athlete, but his 5.17 time in the 40 shows he can get down the line and make plays in pursuit, and that is what separates him from his peers. Furthermore, his 27 reps on the bench and heavy, 10⅛-inch hands show that he has the strength to control offensive linemen in the phone both. Things did not go so well for North Carolina's Cam Thomas and Alabama's Terrence Cody, though. Cody shed a few pounds and is down to 6-3⅝, 354, but he looked sloppy and heavy footed during bag drills. His 5.68 in the 40 was the slowest among the defensive linemen, but his 10-yard split will be more important because he will spend his time in short areas occupying blocks and taking up space. He does those things well, and because of that, we expect him to come off the board before the second round is over. Thomas clocked an unofficial 5.28 at 6-4 and 330 pounds, and he struggled during bag drills. This is not an ideal venue for players with his skill set, though. Like Cody, his ability to eat up space is what matters, and we figure Thomas to be taken before the third round is complete. Linemen on the slide There is a lot to like about the size (6-5¾, 277) and athleticism (4.71 in the 40) we saw from Florida DE/DT Carlos Dunlap, but Dunlap looked a bit stiff and heavy footed when changing directions and was a little tight in the hips. That's not what killed him Monday, though. Scouts we talked to said the interview process did not go well for Dunlap, who came in facing questions about his work ethic, passion and motivation. One scout characterized him as "lazy" and "immature," something that is sure to add to concerns about a player who has first-round physical talent but could fall because of character issues. Georgia DT Jeff Owens also continues to slide. Owens checked in at 6-1 and 310, and while his 4.97 in the 40 was not bad for his size, Owens simply lacks athleticism. That was a concern coming out of Senior Bowl week, and he continues to look stiff and heavy footed, and his stock continues to slip. Linebackers rising AP Photo/Darron Cummings Sean Weatherspoon might have made himself some money at the combine.Missouri's Sean Weatherspoon (6-1¼, 239) was one of the biggest winners in the linebacker class, putting up a 4.68 in the 40 and ripping off 34 reps on the bench to continue the momentum he built up at the Senior Bowl. Weatherspoon also showed good lateral agility and explosiveness in bag drills, and his overall athleticism gives him the kind of range we like in late-first round prospects. Daryl Washington (6-1¾, 230) of TCU also had a good day. Washington is light on his feet and moves easily in space, and he showed good body control and caught the ball well in drills. He also has a strong upper body and good length with 34.4-inch arms. The third linebacker who helped himself was South Carolina's Eric Norwood (6-0½, 245). His 4.71 in the 40 was good, and he displayed the fluid hips and lateral movement to play in space. He also moved his feet well and was good changing directions, and that coupled with the pass-rush ability we see on film made it a good day for Norwood. Linebackers falling We were disappointed in what we saw from Penn State's Navorro Bowman (6-0½, 242.) He came in heavier than expected and didn't carry the extra weight well, and we figured he would be faster than 4.74 based on what we saw on film. Bowman looked sluggish in drills and was tight changing directions, even stumbling a couple of times, and he didn't show good balance. He also has some off-field questions to address during interviews, and if he does not impress teams there, Bowman's stock could fall. Florida's Brandon Spikes (6-2⅞, 242) did not run the 40 and looked stiff in drills. Spikes struggled to sink his hips and stay low when changing directions. That reinforced some of the concerns to come out of his film evaluation, and Spikes now must have a big pro day workout to gain some momentum heading into draft day. Finally, Kentucky's Micah Johnson (6-1½, 258) is as stiff as they come. Johnson lacks straight-line speed (4.99 in the 40) and struggled to drop his hips. He was off balance at times and had to reset his feet when changing directions. Johnson is basically a one-speed linebacker with limited suddenness in his game, and his stock has definitely taken a a hit. |
Re: NFL COMBINE: DT's and LB's work out today and tomorrow!!
I like the way Daryl Washington out of TCU looked all day. Might be an option if he is still around in round 2.
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Re: NFL COMBINE: DT's and LB's work out today and tomorrow!!
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i was cool with debating you but now that you've said that i have something to tell you do you know why the 3-4 was invented and why its becomin more prominant? obviously not.....the 3-4 is designed to stop the pass....thats why there are more LBs....more LBs equals more speed......its also great at pass rushing because of all the blitzes you can come up with because of the extra LB.....the 3-4 is a base defense so obviously it can guard against both the run and the pass but it is better designed to stop the pass because of the extra LB and less suited to stop the run because of the 1 less defensive lineman the 4-3 is better suited to stop the run because of the extra defensive lineman. they have less LBs so they are a bit more liable against the pass but because its a base defense it can usually guard against both well......the extra man on the front line is supposed to stuff the run and stop it at the line of scrimmage the 3-4 is a pass defense first and a run defense second a 4-3 is a run defense first and a pass defense second like i said.....both of them are base defenses so they can do both fine but 1 is better suited to stop the run and the other is better suited to stop the pass |
Re: NFL COMBINE: DT's and LB's work out today and tomorrow!!
Either way this draft pans out, there is a high possibility of snagging a couple of pretty good players in the first couple of rounds. There is a deep pool of talent that I haven't seen in quite a while. I'm ready for the draft NOW!
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Re: NFL COMBINE: DT's and LB's work out today and tomorrow!!
witherspoon dominated the senior bowl. i'll take live action over drills any day
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Re: NFL COMBINE: DT's and LB's work out today and tomorrow!!
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The ILB's in a 3-4 are supposed to be extremely stout and in essence bring the DLine up to 5 members from 4 on run downs. Think Vaugn Johnson and Sam Mills. The NT, think Vince Wilfork, occupies two blockers and allows the LB's to fill on the run. |
Re: NFL COMBINE: DT's and LB's work out today and tomorrow!!
It's also the reason we run a 4-3. Teams have to pass against us more frequently so we have LB's that are good in coverage, not thumpers against the run. Shanle, Vilma, Fujita are all very good coverage LB's against opposing TE's and RB's.
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Re: NFL COMBINE: DT's and LB's work out today and tomorrow!!
Just a little knowlege to help you bone up Canton.
Advantages of the 3-4 Defense The 3-4 Defense works best against a team that enjoys sweeping their running back to the outside or having their wide recievers run slant routes through the middle. It is easy to confuse the offense with the 3-4 defense by showing different blitz packages with the linebackers who may blitz or fall back into coverage. The linebacking positions are made up of two outside linebackers and two inside linebackers. With speedy outside linebacker and powerful inside linebackers the 3-4 Defense is the most advantageous. Outside linebackers can track down passes across the middle or running backs sweeping to the outside while the inside linebackers can stop the run up the middle (though running up the middle is the best way to take advantage of the 3-4 Defense). Disadvantages of the 3-4 Defense The disadvantages of the 3-4 Defense lie inside its advantages. With four linebackers stacked in the middle of the field the offense can opt to put more wide receivers on the line of scrimmage (i.e. in a spread offensive scheme) leaving one or both of the outside linebackers to cover a speedier wide receiver in the slot, an obvious mismatch for the defense. Does that sound like a Defense that is better against the pass to you in an NFL that is moving more and more towards multiple receiver sets? |
Re: NFL COMBINE: DT's and LB's work out today and tomorrow!!
By the way, out of the top 5 run stuffing defenses in the league last year, 4 of them played 3-4. Like I said, don't let my use of statistics scare you from your inane posts.
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Re: NFL COMBINE: DT's and LB's work out today and tomorrow!!
This has been the most informative disagreement that I have ever read. Both of ya'll make excellent points. This is the kind of stuff that an avid fan loves. I didn't play football(rugby is my game) so this kind of information is very valuable to someone with limited knowledge. Keep it coming.:duel:
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its easiest to run up the middle on a 3-4 defense because there is only 1 tackle in the middle as opposed to 2......the strength of the 3-4 is stopping the run on the outside because of the outside linebackers being split so far out the defensive linemen are bigger in a 3-4 because they have to be....but that doesnt mean they are better at stopping the run....3-4 defensive linemen cant move as well and are confined to their small spaces.....anybody that runs outside of their arms reach is going to gain yardage. also the 3-4 gets hurt on inside runs because chip blocks are much easier.....the defensive tackles line up head up on the linemen so anybody chipping them and moving up only has to get a hand on them the way to take advantage of any base defense is to spread them out and have the WRs mismatched on LBs.....you cant have LBs covering WRs in any defense because thats a mismatch but having 4 LBs does take away passes in the middle and in the flats because of the LBs......something that LBs in a 4-3 simply cannot do every play because there are LESS of them Quote:
and the best defenses in the league were 3-4 regardless of what they were trying to do but that is mostly because the league is a passing league so maybe.....we are doing it wrong by running a 4-3 anyway......maybe we should run more of the 3-4 if thats the defense that is the best and cody would fit that system best apparently either way you twist it, cody is a good fit......cody stops the run in a 3-4 or a 4-3.....cody pushes the pocket in either a 3-4 or a 4-3......the saints blitz in every formation and cody ties up blockers in every formation im not exactly sure where this argument went but im going to vote that we keep our arguments shortened from now on.....just give me this simple answer in a couple sentences why is the 3-4 a better run stopping defense and the 4-3 is a better pass stopping defense? also.....ru against drafting a DT all together or just terrence cody? |
Re: NFL COMBINE: DT's and LB's work out today and tomorrow!!
i'll start by presenting my point in as few sentences as possible and we can let the peanut gallery decide
the 3-4 is better at stopping the pass because of the extra LBs which gives the defense more speed.....the 4-3 is better at stopping the run because there are more down linemen at the line of scrimmage |
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