Step right up and place your bets!!!!

BillyCarpenter1 · 09-25-2003, 11:45 PM

Been around coaches , players and owners if you must know Billy . Can read defenses and have had limited coaching experience at a much lower level .

Old enough to have cheered at old tulane and the superdome ......

What defenses do you have the most experience with 08? Do you think you can read defenses as good as Brooks? Would you say you have more football knowledge than Brooks? What coaches do you have conversations with? What level did you coach on? Surely if you can critcise as much as you do, then you can stand a little yourself.

BrooksMustGo · 09-25-2003, 11:59 PM

Anyone who\'s cheered at Tulane knows heartache. I\'m not going to bust their balls for it.

Anyone who\'s cheered at Tulane has seen more \"quarterbacks of the future\" and heard more promises to build a winner to know that Brooks aint it and Haz-matic aint getting it done.

saintz08 · 09-26-2003, 01:03 AM

Well to really find out Billy I guess I would have to suit up and get in there with the guys now wouldn\'t I ......Of course if Brooks read coverages all that well I suppose a safety from the Browns would not have gone national with it and said that Brooks cannot ........

BillyCarpenter1 · 09-26-2003, 08:27 AM

08 -- One player said Brooks can\'t read defenses and we are suppose to take that as the gospel? What about the AFC scout who says Brooks has developed into a fine NFL QB that is one of the 10 best? Both of us can support our beliefs with articles. But, I bet you can\'t find any articles about Brooks not playing very well this year. The ONLY PEOPLE talking about Brooks playing poorly THIS YEAR are a few memebers on here. Looks like to me that you are seeing something this year from Aaron that all the experts don\'t see. Are you that brilliant 08, or are all the experts just that stupid?

You are so desperate to find fault in Brooks that you have resorted to critcising him for not being able to read defenses. Can a QB really not be able to read defenses and be ranked in the top 5 in passer rating in the ENITRE NFL? ANYONE with half a brain (this leaves you out) can see that Brooks is playing very well this year. Of course not everyone has hung out with NFL coaches and they don\'t have your experience at reading defenses. I bet you even have one of those telestrators and break down Arron\'s mechanics like Ron Jawsworski does on ESPN.

You are very hypocritical in you analysis of Brooks. So I don\'t use this word lightly when I say that 08 is a HYPOCRITE!!

FWtex · 09-26-2003, 09:29 AM

Billie quote:
\"FWtex- If we are going to change just for the sake of changing, why don\'t we substitute every player? Can you answer that question for me???\"

Are you really serious about this question or do you think you are making a point by asking it?

I\'ll play your silly game with a few sentences. It is known to any football fan that the QB is the player who puts an identity on an offense. There is not any other position that will have an effect on every other player on the field. In the first game of this season there was a team that changed QB\'s and the team played completely different. Case closed!!!

BillyCarpenter1 · 09-26-2003, 09:36 AM

FWtex--

So you would pull Brooks because another team pulled their QB and played better. You would just forget the fact that Brooks is playing better than any other player on the field? What kind of message would that send to the rest of the players? Would you want to play for a coach where you could lose your starting job because the coach just wanted to experiment with your position and not pay any attention to how you played on the field? Thank God you don\'t make these decisions!!

[Edited on 26/9/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

lumm0x · 09-26-2003, 11:10 AM

There have been a few games over the last couple of years where I would hazard to say that a decision by Brooks may have led to the loss. But with any young player, mistakes are part of the learning process and should be expected. Aaron Brooks is by no means a perfect QB, and he will likely never be a perfect QB, but he definitely is a QB of starting caliber and has more potential than 80% of current starters because of his athletic ability.

The point I was getting to is that this year, with all of the underachievement and controversy, Aaron Brooks does look like a different person. I would confidently say even in the three games we\'ve played as a team, he is one of the 5 most effective individuals in each game. Alot of members will question my reference to effectiveness since the stats won\'t clearly back that, but taking each snap of the ball and the circumstances we are in at the time the play begins, Brooks does well with each given situation.

If we were losing because he was forcing balls into coverage, ineptly disguising his fakes, holding the ball too long, or misreading coverages, I would be all over the \"same ole\' Brooks wagon. But truth be told, he\'s playing his part well. He has five guys standing in front of him that are consistently missing their assignments, that are forcing him to aid in the delay of the pass rush, forcing the running game to be highly ineffective and cause more reliance on the passing game. Our marquee WR is excelling at getting open, but like the bulk of our WR corp, has managed to drop the ball at only the most inopportune times. We have lost offensive momentum more often than I care to admit because of a dropped pass or offensive penalty. We live every possession in 3rd and long. Nearly every drive gets stopped because of a botched play by another offensive player. This is a team sport and needs all 11 individuals on the same page. This has finally and consistently been a series of games where Brooks is on a page by himself but it is now the right page. Most everyone else is reading a different book. Add to that the offense has to overcome the lack of imagination and stubborness of our game management, they are being expected to execute plays that clearly deny the weakness in the defense we face to simply stroke the ego of our OC in that he thinks he will force his will on the defense. Not working.

In my mind, some past performances were just cause to get on Aaaron\'s back, but so far this year has not been the same. Individually, he looks like the young guy we saw come in relief of Jeff Blake, playing out of fear and with something to prove. Time to lay off.

I don\'t hear anyone barking about McAllister\'s lack of production? Why is this Pro Bowl talent so ineffective? Because he\'s staring at a 9 man front, foaming at the mouth, daring us to be stupid enough to execute our play script, or force them away with the pass....and what do we do......here\'s the ball Deuce. The guys who are pointing the finger at McCarthy and Haslett right now are probably on the right witch hunt.

BillyCarpenter1 · 09-26-2003, 11:53 AM

That was very well said LummOx. The one thing that stood out to me was this statement:

taking each snap of the ball and the circumstances we are in at the time the play begins, Brooks does well with each given situation.

The QB gets too much credit when the team wins and too much blame when the teams loses, but you can\'t define an indivdual players effectiveness on wins and losses. This is a team sport. Every player has do do their part, and Brooks has been one of the few that has done his part. For someone to think that the QB can single handily will this offense to perform is showing their ignorance. Every QB that has ever played this game had help from their team mates. Mike Vick might be the exception to this rule but I\'m talking about passing the ball and not running with it.

Something needs to change on this offense, but I can assure you that it isn\'t the 63.3% completion rate, or Brooks ability to buy time in the pocket, to compensate for the terrible blocking of the offensive line. What needs to change is the playcalling and the mental mistakes made by the rest of the offense.

So, for those of you who want to change QB\'s in hopes of the offense performing better, that is possible, but another QB will only be more successful, IF the offensive line blocks better and the receivers quit dropping passes, and the mental mistakes stop by the rest of the offense. But, of course if that happens, then we shouldn\'t need another QB.

Of all the things that we should be talking about on here, Aaron Brooks\' play isn\'t one of them.

saintfan · 09-26-2003, 12:01 PM

Oh MY G-O-D!!! LummOx never has anyone been so right on target. There\'s one game in my memory that we lost and that I hold Brooks accountable for, and that\'s the Cleveland game last year. I\'m a little rough around the edges when it comes to defending Brooks in large part because I\'m fed up with comments like the ones our \"old\" and \"tired\" buddy \"08\" keeps posting. Rather than admit he has an agenda he tries to poke hols in Brooks\' performance all the while failing to acknowledge the REAL problems with this team that you so gracefully summed up in your last post.

JOESAM2002 · 09-26-2003, 01:13 PM

Good post Lumm. I agree with you. I just hate when everytime someone says anything about him having room for improvement we get slammed as not being good fans. If I\'m not mistaken, there has only been 1 perfect person. As I have said many times I like Aaron, I just think there are things he could do better.

As for not being a good fan, I just consider the source. Until perfection is achieved, there is always room for improvement.

09-25-2003, 11:45 PM	#21
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Step right up and place your bets!!!! Been around coaches , players and owners if you must know Billy . Can read defenses and have had limited coaching experience at a much lower level . Old enough to have cheered at old tulane and the superdome ...... What defenses do you have the most experience with 08? Do you think you can read defenses as good as Brooks? Would you say you have more football knowledge than Brooks? What coaches do you have conversations with? What level did you coach on? Surely if you can critcise as much as you do, then you can stand a little yourself.
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

09-25-2003, 11:59 PM	#22
BrooksMustGo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,762	Step right up and place your bets!!!! Anyone who\'s cheered at Tulane knows heartache. I\'m not going to bust their balls for it. Anyone who\'s cheered at Tulane has seen more \"quarterbacks of the future\" and heard more promises to build a winner to know that Brooks aint it and Haz-matic aint getting it done.

09-26-2003, 01:03 AM	#23
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	Step right up and place your bets!!!! Well to really find out Billy I guess I would have to suit up and get in there with the guys now wouldn\'t I ......Of course if Brooks read coverages all that well I suppose a safety from the Browns would not have gone national with it and said that Brooks cannot ........
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020

09-26-2003, 08:27 AM	#24
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Step right up and place your bets!!!! 08 -- One player said Brooks can\'t read defenses and we are suppose to take that as the gospel? What about the AFC scout who says Brooks has developed into a fine NFL QB that is one of the 10 best? Both of us can support our beliefs with articles. But, I bet you can\'t find any articles about Brooks not playing very well this year. The ONLY PEOPLE talking about Brooks playing poorly THIS YEAR are a few memebers on here. Looks like to me that you are seeing something this year from Aaron that all the experts don\'t see. Are you that brilliant 08, or are all the experts just that stupid? You are so desperate to find fault in Brooks that you have resorted to critcising him for not being able to read defenses. Can a QB really not be able to read defenses and be ranked in the top 5 in passer rating in the ENITRE NFL? ANYONE with half a brain (this leaves you out) can see that Brooks is playing very well this year. Of course not everyone has hung out with NFL coaches and they don\'t have your experience at reading defenses. I bet you even have one of those telestrators and break down Arron\'s mechanics like Ron Jawsworski does on ESPN. You are very hypocritical in you analysis of Brooks. So I don\'t use this word lightly when I say that 08 is a HYPOCRITE!!
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

09-26-2003, 09:29 AM	#25
FWtex 100th Post Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 370	Step right up and place your bets!!!! Billie quote: \"FWtex- If we are going to change just for the sake of changing, why don\'t we substitute every player? Can you answer that question for me???\" Are you really serious about this question or do you think you are making a point by asking it? I\'ll play your silly game with a few sentences. It is known to any football fan that the QB is the player who puts an identity on an offense. There is not any other position that will have an effect on every other player on the field. In the first game of this season there was a team that changed QB\'s and the team played completely different. Case closed!!!
FWtex 100th Post Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 370

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09-26-2003, 09:36 AM	#26
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Step right up and place your bets!!!! FWtex-- So you would pull Brooks because another team pulled their QB and played better. You would just forget the fact that Brooks is playing better than any other player on the field? What kind of message would that send to the rest of the players? Would you want to play for a coach where you could lose your starting job because the coach just wanted to experiment with your position and not pay any attention to how you played on the field? Thank God you don\'t make these decisions!! [Edited on 26/9/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

09-26-2003, 11:10 AM	#27
lumm0x Resident antediluvian Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,026	Step right up and place your bets!!!! There have been a few games over the last couple of years where I would hazard to say that a decision by Brooks may have led to the loss. But with any young player, mistakes are part of the learning process and should be expected. Aaron Brooks is by no means a perfect QB, and he will likely never be a perfect QB, but he definitely is a QB of starting caliber and has more potential than 80% of current starters because of his athletic ability. The point I was getting to is that this year, with all of the underachievement and controversy, Aaron Brooks does look like a different person. I would confidently say even in the three games we\'ve played as a team, he is one of the 5 most effective individuals in each game. Alot of members will question my reference to effectiveness since the stats won\'t clearly back that, but taking each snap of the ball and the circumstances we are in at the time the play begins, Brooks does well with each given situation. If we were losing because he was forcing balls into coverage, ineptly disguising his fakes, holding the ball too long, or misreading coverages, I would be all over the \"same ole\' Brooks wagon. But truth be told, he\'s playing his part well. He has five guys standing in front of him that are consistently missing their assignments, that are forcing him to aid in the delay of the pass rush, forcing the running game to be highly ineffective and cause more reliance on the passing game. Our marquee WR is excelling at getting open, but like the bulk of our WR corp, has managed to drop the ball at only the most inopportune times. We have lost offensive momentum more often than I care to admit because of a dropped pass or offensive penalty. We live every possession in 3rd and long. Nearly every drive gets stopped because of a botched play by another offensive player. This is a team sport and needs all 11 individuals on the same page. This has finally and consistently been a series of games where Brooks is on a page by himself but it is now the right page. Most everyone else is reading a different book. Add to that the offense has to overcome the lack of imagination and stubborness of our game management, they are being expected to execute plays that clearly deny the weakness in the defense we face to simply stroke the ego of our OC in that he thinks he will force his will on the defense. Not working. In my mind, some past performances were just cause to get on Aaaron\'s back, but so far this year has not been the same. Individually, he looks like the young guy we saw come in relief of Jeff Blake, playing out of fear and with something to prove. Time to lay off. I don\'t hear anyone barking about McAllister\'s lack of production? Why is this Pro Bowl talent so ineffective? Because he\'s staring at a 9 man front, foaming at the mouth, daring us to be stupid enough to execute our play script, or force them away with the pass....and what do we do......here\'s the ball Deuce. The guys who are pointing the finger at McCarthy and Haslett right now are probably on the right witch hunt.

09-26-2003, 11:53 AM	#28
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Step right up and place your bets!!!! That was very well said LummOx. The one thing that stood out to me was this statement: taking each snap of the ball and the circumstances we are in at the time the play begins, Brooks does well with each given situation. The QB gets too much credit when the team wins and too much blame when the teams loses, but you can\'t define an indivdual players effectiveness on wins and losses. This is a team sport. Every player has do do their part, and Brooks has been one of the few that has done his part. For someone to think that the QB can single handily will this offense to perform is showing their ignorance. Every QB that has ever played this game had help from their team mates. Mike Vick might be the exception to this rule but I\'m talking about passing the ball and not running with it. Something needs to change on this offense, but I can assure you that it isn\'t the 63.3% completion rate, or Brooks ability to buy time in the pocket, to compensate for the terrible blocking of the offensive line. What needs to change is the playcalling and the mental mistakes made by the rest of the offense. So, for those of you who want to change QB\'s in hopes of the offense performing better, that is possible, but another QB will only be more successful, IF the offensive line blocks better and the receivers quit dropping passes, and the mental mistakes stop by the rest of the offense. But, of course if that happens, then we shouldn\'t need another QB. Of all the things that we should be talking about on here, Aaron Brooks\' play isn\'t one of them.
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

09-26-2003, 12:01 PM	#29
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Step right up and place your bets!!!! Oh MY G-O-D!!! LummOx never has anyone been so right on target. There\'s one game in my memory that we lost and that I hold Brooks accountable for, and that\'s the Cleveland game last year. I\'m a little rough around the edges when it comes to defending Brooks in large part because I\'m fed up with comments like the ones our \"old\" and \"tired\" buddy \"08\" keeps posting. Rather than admit he has an agenda he tries to poke hols in Brooks\' performance all the while failing to acknowledge the REAL problems with this team that you so gracefully summed up in your last post.
	C'mon Man...

09-26-2003, 01:13 PM	#30
JOESAM2002 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CRYSTAL BEACH TEXAS Posts: 4,100	Step right up and place your bets!!!! Good post Lumm. I agree with you. I just hate when everytime someone says anything about him having room for improvement we get slammed as not being good fans. If I\'m not mistaken, there has only been 1 perfect person. As I have said many times I like Aaron, I just think there are things he could do better. As for not being a good fan, I just consider the source. Until perfection is achieved, there is always room for improvement.