25th ranked defense...So what!!!

CantonLegend · 05-19-2010, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by D_it_up

Those numbers are skewed due to the vast amount of injuries to starters throughout the year (Porter, Greer, Fujita, Ellis). I know it's a case of coulda-shoulda-woulda, but those numbers wouldn't have been near as high had they been in the line-up. Plus, most of the yards and points were given up when teams were playing from behind, especially early in the season. Kolb throwing for 400+ yards, for example. When the starters were in, the defense was not a bad one. Sure, there were holes that were apparent, but they were able to compensate by forcing turnovers. That 25th ranking doesn't bother me from last year. They made their run through the postseason and won the Super Bowl when they had all the starters in (except Grant which was probably a blessing more than a hindrance). If they can stay healthy, that ranking will be much higher than 25th.

injuries happen every year.....we have to expect that again this year considering most of our key players on defense have yet to play a full season with us

our defense definitly didnt get better this offseason.....so considering we have to take injuries into account as well as our offseason losses and lack of gains, can we really assume that our defense will be better?

D_it_up · 05-19-2010, 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by CantonLegend

injuries happen every year

Really? When did this start happening?

Seriously, though. You act like the defense was just pathetic. The only time they were really bad was when those players I stated were all out of the line-up, and they collectively missed quite a bit of time. The problem wasn't that defense wasn't good, it's that there wasn't much depth. You say that the defense didn't get better this offseason, but that is just as much speculation as someone that would say we have. What proof do you have that they haven't gotten better? Let me answer that for you. You don't. No one has seen what the new players will bring to the table until they touch the field. Come on, Canton. You should know that. You can't always go by what is on paper.

CantonLegend · 05-19-2010, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by D_it_up

Really? When did this start happening?

Seriously, though. You act like the defense was just pathetic. The only time they were really bad was when those players I stated were all out of the line-up, and they collectively missed quite a bit of time. The problem wasn't that defense wasn't good, it's that there wasn't much depth. You say that the defense didn't get better this offseason, but that is just as much speculation as someone that would say we have. What proof do you have that they haven't gotten better? Let me answer that for you. You don't. No one has seen what the new players will bring to the table until they touch the field. Come on, Canton. You should know that. You can't always go by what is on paper.

i am speculating as much as anybody because thats what we have to go on

however, ive lived a good nearly 30 years of life and noticed that by subtracting important pieces of anything, not just a football team, does not usually make something better

we lost key parts of our defense and even tho i know you werent a fan of grant, there was a reason he started for us even after the huge amounts of criticism he faced

not to mention fujita and clancy

like you mentioned.....our secondary was in shambles last season and that ranking is a bit skewed.....even our DTs went down for some time

but take into account that tracy porter, darren sharper, jabari greer, sedrick ellis, and any other DT we have will likely miss time just by looking at their past history

not to mention we lose will smith for the first 4 games most likely

we have a very talented defense....but we are still missing a cornerstone or 2 i believe

D_it_up · 05-19-2010, 11:20 PM

Originally Posted by CantonLegend

i am speculating as much as anybody because thats what we have to go on

however, ive lived a good nearly 30 years of life and noticed that by subtracting important pieces of anything, not just a football team, does not usually make something better

we lost key parts of our defense and even tho i know you werent a fan of grant, there was a reason he started for us even after the huge amounts of criticism he faced

not to mention fujita and clancy

like you mentioned.....our secondary was in shambles last season and that ranking is a bit skewed.....even our DTs went down for some time

but take into account that tracy porter, darren sharper, jabari greer, sedrick ellis, and any other DT we have will likely miss time just by looking at their past history

not to mention we lose will smith for the first 4 games most likely

we have a very talented defense....but we are still missing a cornerstone or 2 i believe

You're right on what I think about Grant. He was one of those who "cashed it in" after signing a big contract. He became expendable due to not living up to the money he was making. I liked Fujita alot, but he was definitely replaceable. As far as Clancy, I don't see that he would have been that much better of an option than what we had, and especially with him being 32 by the start of the season and coming off a season-ending injury, that makes him even less of an option. I think the additions they made this offseason (Brown, Wilkerson, Robinson, Woods) and Arnoux and Vaughn, provided they are healthy, will actually help the team. That is speculation on my part, as well. I just don't think the defense is as bad as you say it is. And if I remember correctly, you were singing the same tune I'm singing now about the injuries when fans of other teams were coming in here bashing our defense last year.

I agree that there is more that could be brought in to improve it, but the Saints had their hands tied as far as free agents were concerned due to that stupid Final 8 rule.

Pete · 05-19-2010, 09:53 PM

I believe we will be better while this gelling proccess is continuing to move foward. Gregg tutoring our defense is definately gonna pay off in this second year with our eager young players, gaining the tenacity gregg offers.DEFENSE

lynwood · 05-19-2010, 10:43 PM

Our Defense is still pretty young. Should be better this year with the added time playing together and the depth. Our Defense did it's Job and then some by putting points on the board and sealing a playoff win and a Superbowl win. They were #1 when it counted the most.

D_it_up · 05-19-2010, 11:20 PM

Originally Posted by lynwood

Our Defense did it's Job and then some by putting points on the board and sealing a playoff win and a Superbowl win. They were #1 when it counted the most.

Indeed. That's exactly the point I'm trying to make.

saintsfan1976 · 05-20-2010, 06:56 AM

Great points everyone.

Remember that statistics don't tell the whole story.

Was was obvious about our defense last year is that we had very little depth.

That takes years to develop and injuries make it even more apparent.

Pieces are being added, but I agree w Canton that we are still 1-2 cornerstone players away.

Rugby Saint II · 05-20-2010, 12:34 PM

We are about the same team as last year with a few exceptions. The advantage to that is that collectively they are even better prepared than last year. The disadvantage is that we are basically the same team as last year with a lot more film on us and our tendencies.
What I'm trying to say is that we haven't significantly upgraded our weaknesses. jmo Our defense was extremely aggressive and opportunistic which led to a lot of turnovers. We may not have the ball bounce our way this year like we did last year. But then again...... we might. I am a firm believer that you make your own luck. Fortune smiles on the well prepared.

strato · 05-20-2010, 02:42 PM

We score so many points our D just needs to be a little above average..and BAM....superbowl..i think thats what your all trying to say.

05-19-2010, 09:43 PM	#2
D_it_up Faqda Falcons Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ruston, Louisiana Posts: 3,465 Blog Entries: 3	Re: 25th ranked defense...So what!!! Originally Posted by CantonLegend injuries happen every year Really? When did this start happening? Seriously, though. You act like the defense was just pathetic. The only time they were really bad was when those players I stated were all out of the line-up, and they collectively missed quite a bit of time. The problem wasn't that defense wasn't good, it's that there wasn't much depth. You say that the defense didn't get better this offseason, but that is just as much speculation as someone that would say we have. What proof do you have that they haven't gotten better? Let me answer that for you. You don't. No one has seen what the new players will bring to the table until they touch the field. Come on, Canton. You should know that. You can't always go by what is on paper.

05-19-2010, 09:50 PM	#3
CantonLegend 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 2,685 Blog Entries: 2	Re: 25th ranked defense...So what!!! Originally Posted by D_it_up Really? When did this start happening? Seriously, though. You act like the defense was just pathetic. The only time they were really bad was when those players I stated were all out of the line-up, and they collectively missed quite a bit of time. The problem wasn't that defense wasn't good, it's that there wasn't much depth. You say that the defense didn't get better this offseason, but that is just as much speculation as someone that would say we have. What proof do you have that they haven't gotten better? Let me answer that for you. You don't. No one has seen what the new players will bring to the table until they touch the field. Come on, Canton. You should know that. You can't always go by what is on paper. i am speculating as much as anybody because thats what we have to go on however, ive lived a good nearly 30 years of life and noticed that by subtracting important pieces of anything, not just a football team, does not usually make something better we lost key parts of our defense and even tho i know you werent a fan of grant, there was a reason he started for us even after the huge amounts of criticism he faced not to mention fujita and clancy like you mentioned.....our secondary was in shambles last season and that ranking is a bit skewed.....even our DTs went down for some time but take into account that tracy porter, darren sharper, jabari greer, sedrick ellis, and any other DT we have will likely miss time just by looking at their past history not to mention we lose will smith for the first 4 games most likely we have a very talented defense....but we are still missing a cornerstone or 2 i believe
	"deal with it or you can go play the saints and get trounced by 30 and you won't have to worry about it."-colin cowherd

05-19-2010, 11:20 PM	#4
D_it_up Faqda Falcons Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ruston, Louisiana Posts: 3,465 Blog Entries: 3	Re: 25th ranked defense...So what!!! Originally Posted by CantonLegend i am speculating as much as anybody because thats what we have to go on however, ive lived a good nearly 30 years of life and noticed that by subtracting important pieces of anything, not just a football team, does not usually make something better we lost key parts of our defense and even tho i know you werent a fan of grant, there was a reason he started for us even after the huge amounts of criticism he faced not to mention fujita and clancy like you mentioned.....our secondary was in shambles last season and that ranking is a bit skewed.....even our DTs went down for some time but take into account that tracy porter, darren sharper, jabari greer, sedrick ellis, and any other DT we have will likely miss time just by looking at their past history not to mention we lose will smith for the first 4 games most likely we have a very talented defense....but we are still missing a cornerstone or 2 i believe You're right on what I think about Grant. He was one of those who "cashed it in" after signing a big contract. He became expendable due to not living up to the money he was making. I liked Fujita alot, but he was definitely replaceable. As far as Clancy, I don't see that he would have been that much better of an option than what we had, and especially with him being 32 by the start of the season and coming off a season-ending injury, that makes him even less of an option. I think the additions they made this offseason (Brown, Wilkerson, Robinson, Woods) and Arnoux and Vaughn, provided they are healthy, will actually help the team. That is speculation on my part, as well. I just don't think the defense is as bad as you say it is. And if I remember correctly, you were singing the same tune I'm singing now about the injuries when fans of other teams were coming in here bashing our defense last year. I agree that there is more that could be brought in to improve it, but the Saints had their hands tied as far as free agents were concerned due to that stupid Final 8 rule.

05-19-2010, 09:53 PM	#5
Pete • Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Patterson, LA Posts: 1,757	Re: 25th ranked defense...So what!!! I believe we will be better while this gelling proccess is continuing to move foward. Gregg tutoring our defense is definately gonna pay off in this second year with our eager young players, gaining the tenacity gregg offers.DEFENSE

05-19-2010, 10:43 PM	#6
lynwood 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Hockley, Tx Posts: 1,515	Re: 25th ranked defense...So what!!! Our Defense is still pretty young. Should be better this year with the added time playing together and the depth. Our Defense did it's Job and then some by putting points on the board and sealing a playoff win and a Superbowl win. They were #1 when it counted the most.

05-19-2010, 09:24 PM	#1
CantonLegend 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 2,685 Blog Entries: 2	Re: 25th ranked defense...So what!!! Originally Posted by D_it_up Those numbers are skewed due to the vast amount of injuries to starters throughout the year (Porter, Greer, Fujita, Ellis). I know it's a case of coulda-shoulda-woulda, but those numbers wouldn't have been near as high had they been in the line-up. Plus, most of the yards and points were given up when teams were playing from behind, especially early in the season. Kolb throwing for 400+ yards, for example. When the starters were in, the defense was not a bad one. Sure, there were holes that were apparent, but they were able to compensate by forcing turnovers. That 25th ranking doesn't bother me from last year. They made their run through the postseason and won the Super Bowl when they had all the starters in (except Grant which was probably a blessing more than a hindrance). If they can stay healthy, that ranking will be much higher than 25th. injuries happen every year.....we have to expect that again this year considering most of our key players on defense have yet to play a full season with us our defense definitly didnt get better this offseason.....so considering we have to take injuries into account as well as our offseason losses and lack of gains, can we really assume that our defense will be better?

05-20-2010, 06:56 AM	#8
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 11,036 Blog Entries: 3	Re: 25th ranked defense...So what!!! Great points everyone. Remember that statistics don't tell the whole story. Was was obvious about our defense last year is that we had very little depth. That takes years to develop and injuries make it even more apparent. Pieces are being added, but I agree w Canton that we are still 1-2 cornerstone players away.

05-20-2010, 12:34 PM	#9
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,166	Re: 25th ranked defense...So what!!! We are about the same team as last year with a few exceptions. The advantage to that is that collectively they are even better prepared than last year. The disadvantage is that we are basically the same team as last year with a lot more film on us and our tendencies. What I'm trying to say is that we haven't significantly upgraded our weaknesses. jmo Our defense was extremely aggressive and opportunistic which led to a lot of turnovers. We may not have the ball bounce our way this year like we did last year. But then again...... we might. I am a firm believer that you make your own luck. Fortune smiles on the well prepared.

05-20-2010, 02:42 PM	#10
strato Banned Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: "Little Ole Town in Tejas" Posts: 7,586	Re: 25th ranked defense...So what!!! We score so many points our D just needs to be a little above average..and BAM....superbowl..i think thats what your all trying to say.