25th ranked defense...So what!!!

Pete · 05-19-2010, 10:53 PM

I believe we will be better while this gelling proccess is continuing to move foward. Gregg tutoring our defense is definately gonna pay off in this second year with our eager young players, gaining the tenacity gregg offers.DEFENSE

lynwood · 05-19-2010, 11:43 PM

Our Defense is still pretty young. Should be better this year with the added time playing together and the depth. Our Defense did it's Job and then some by putting points on the board and sealing a playoff win and a Superbowl win. They were #1 when it counted the most.

D_it_up · 05-20-2010, 12:20 AM

Originally Posted by CantonLegend

i am speculating as much as anybody because thats what we have to go on

however, ive lived a good nearly 30 years of life and noticed that by subtracting important pieces of anything, not just a football team, does not usually make something better

we lost key parts of our defense and even tho i know you werent a fan of grant, there was a reason he started for us even after the huge amounts of criticism he faced

not to mention fujita and clancy

like you mentioned.....our secondary was in shambles last season and that ranking is a bit skewed.....even our DTs went down for some time

but take into account that tracy porter, darren sharper, jabari greer, sedrick ellis, and any other DT we have will likely miss time just by looking at their past history

not to mention we lose will smith for the first 4 games most likely

we have a very talented defense....but we are still missing a cornerstone or 2 i believe

You're right on what I think about Grant. He was one of those who "cashed it in" after signing a big contract. He became expendable due to not living up to the money he was making. I liked Fujita alot, but he was definitely replaceable. As far as Clancy, I don't see that he would have been that much better of an option than what we had, and especially with him being 32 by the start of the season and coming off a season-ending injury, that makes him even less of an option. I think the additions they made this offseason (Brown, Wilkerson, Robinson, Woods) and Arnoux and Vaughn, provided they are healthy, will actually help the team. That is speculation on my part, as well. I just don't think the defense is as bad as you say it is. And if I remember correctly, you were singing the same tune I'm singing now about the injuries when fans of other teams were coming in here bashing our defense last year.

I agree that there is more that could be brought in to improve it, but the Saints had their hands tied as far as free agents were concerned due to that stupid Final 8 rule.

D_it_up · 05-20-2010, 12:20 AM

Originally Posted by lynwood

Our Defense did it's Job and then some by putting points on the board and sealing a playoff win and a Superbowl win. They were #1 when it counted the most.

Indeed. That's exactly the point I'm trying to make.

papz · 05-20-2010, 07:14 AM

Originally Posted by CantonLegend

cots had the 21st ranked defense in yards allowed that year.....and the 10th ranked defense in points allowed

our defense was still worse

The point was not who had the worst defense between the two. The point was you don't need an great defense to make it to or win the Superbowl.

It's all about creating turnovers and making plays when it counts.

If you win the turnover battle, the chances of you winning the game increase to about 90% I believe.

and yes its nice to create turnovers, but a lot of that is luck and you cant rely on luck.....you need to rely on talent and ability and hope that a little luck happens

While luck plays a part in it, obviously that player's talent and ability to get into position to create these turnovers do too. So I don't see what you're trying to get at here. I didn't saying anything about relying on luck.

It's all about creating turnovers and making plays when it counts.

saintsfan1976 · 05-20-2010, 07:56 AM

Great points everyone.

Remember that statistics don't tell the whole story.

Was was obvious about our defense last year is that we had very little depth.

That takes years to develop and injuries make it even more apparent.

Pieces are being added, but I agree w Canton that we are still 1-2 cornerstone players away.

CantonLegend · 05-20-2010, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by papz

The point was not who had the worst defense between the two. The point was you don't need an great defense to make it to or win the Superbowl.

my point about that....and yes i agree to a point....is that just because we won it last year with a bad defense, doesnt mean we should try and get by with that again....we shouldve at least been trying to add to our holes this offseason....apparently they are trying but it doesnt seem like they are trying very hard

If you win the turnover battle, the chances of you winning the game increase to about 90% I believe.

idk about the percentage but of course......thats why we won so many games....because we took the ball from them and didnt give it up ourselves

While luck plays a part in it, obviously that player's talent and ability to get into position to create these turnovers do too. So I don't see what you're trying to get at here. I didn't saying anything about relying on luck.

turnovers have a lot to do with luck....thats where luck joined the conversation......you're right that talent and ability go hand in hand because the talent and preparation create a lot of luck

but like i was saying before.....turnovers are more luck than skill.....so its safe to say that our defense was very lucky IMO.....we really didnt stop anybody this year except the pats.....we just thrived off of turnovers

can we get by another year without stopping anyone? history(which really means nothing) has shown us that you really cant get by like that

Rugby Saint II · 05-20-2010, 01:34 PM

We are about the same team as last year with a few exceptions. The advantage to that is that collectively they are even better prepared than last year. The disadvantage is that we are basically the same team as last year with a lot more film on us and our tendencies.
What I'm trying to say is that we haven't significantly upgraded our weaknesses. jmo Our defense was extremely aggressive and opportunistic which led to a lot of turnovers. We may not have the ball bounce our way this year like we did last year. But then again...... we might. I am a firm believer that you make your own luck. Fortune smiles on the well prepared.

strato · 05-20-2010, 03:42 PM

We score so many points our D just needs to be a little above average..and BAM....superbowl..i think thats what your all trying to say.

papz · 05-20-2010, 05:46 PM

Canton - For me personally, I beg to differ on how our offseason has gone and how much we've actually accomplished. We shed a lot of money and deadweight by releasing Grant and made a solid signing in Alex Brown who should prove to be an upgrade. We re-signed one of our top free agents in Sharper and drafted some quality players on the defensive side of the ball. I really do believe we improved as opposed to some of the media and fans. As many pointed out, some of our injuries played a big part in our defensive statistics. I think it's overblown on how "average" or "bad" (some might say looking at numbers), our defense really was.

At our supposed holes on defense, DT and OLB I persume, we still managed to win a ton of games and ended up with a ring. So... is it really that significant of a hole as some are portraying? I'm really not concerned the least bit of the Fujita loss... those numbers are easily replaceable with what we already have on the roster. I was watching the news yesterday and Zurich (local sports guy) mentioned that we do play a lot of 4-2-5 leaving a linebacker out quite a bit... just saying that position isn't that big of a concern. Now while I am concerned at DT, any type of consistent production from anyone there will prove to be an immediate improvement. All in all, I do believe we got better on the defensive side of the ball... just my opinion.

05-19-2010, 10:53 PM	#11
Pete • Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Patterson, LA Posts: 1,753	Re: 25th ranked defense...So what!!! I believe we will be better while this gelling proccess is continuing to move foward. Gregg tutoring our defense is definately gonna pay off in this second year with our eager young players, gaining the tenacity gregg offers.DEFENSE

05-19-2010, 11:43 PM	#12
lynwood 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Hockley, Tx Posts: 1,515	Re: 25th ranked defense...So what!!! Our Defense is still pretty young. Should be better this year with the added time playing together and the depth. Our Defense did it's Job and then some by putting points on the board and sealing a playoff win and a Superbowl win. They were #1 when it counted the most.

05-20-2010, 12:20 AM	#13
D_it_up Faqda Falcons Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ruston, Louisiana Posts: 3,465 Blog Entries: 3	Re: 25th ranked defense...So what!!! Originally Posted by CantonLegend i am speculating as much as anybody because thats what we have to go on however, ive lived a good nearly 30 years of life and noticed that by subtracting important pieces of anything, not just a football team, does not usually make something better we lost key parts of our defense and even tho i know you werent a fan of grant, there was a reason he started for us even after the huge amounts of criticism he faced not to mention fujita and clancy like you mentioned.....our secondary was in shambles last season and that ranking is a bit skewed.....even our DTs went down for some time but take into account that tracy porter, darren sharper, jabari greer, sedrick ellis, and any other DT we have will likely miss time just by looking at their past history not to mention we lose will smith for the first 4 games most likely we have a very talented defense....but we are still missing a cornerstone or 2 i believe You're right on what I think about Grant. He was one of those who "cashed it in" after signing a big contract. He became expendable due to not living up to the money he was making. I liked Fujita alot, but he was definitely replaceable. As far as Clancy, I don't see that he would have been that much better of an option than what we had, and especially with him being 32 by the start of the season and coming off a season-ending injury, that makes him even less of an option. I think the additions they made this offseason (Brown, Wilkerson, Robinson, Woods) and Arnoux and Vaughn, provided they are healthy, will actually help the team. That is speculation on my part, as well. I just don't think the defense is as bad as you say it is. And if I remember correctly, you were singing the same tune I'm singing now about the injuries when fans of other teams were coming in here bashing our defense last year. I agree that there is more that could be brought in to improve it, but the Saints had their hands tied as far as free agents were concerned due to that stupid Final 8 rule.

05-20-2010, 12:20 AM	#14
D_it_up Faqda Falcons Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ruston, Louisiana Posts: 3,465 Blog Entries: 3	Re: 25th ranked defense...So what!!! Originally Posted by lynwood Our Defense did it's Job and then some by putting points on the board and sealing a playoff win and a Superbowl win. They were #1 when it counted the most. Indeed. That's exactly the point I'm trying to make.

05-20-2010, 07:14 AM	#15
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,744	Re: 25th ranked defense...So what!!! Originally Posted by CantonLegend cots had the 21st ranked defense in yards allowed that year.....and the 10th ranked defense in points allowed our defense was still worse The point was not who had the worst defense between the two. The point was you don't need an great defense to make it to or win the Superbowl. It's all about creating turnovers and making plays when it counts. If you win the turnover battle, the chances of you winning the game increase to about 90% I believe. and yes its nice to create turnovers, but a lot of that is luck and you cant rely on luck.....you need to rely on talent and ability and hope that a little luck happens While luck plays a part in it, obviously that player's talent and ability to get into position to create these turnovers do too. So I don't see what you're trying to get at here. I didn't saying anything about relying on luck. It's all about creating turnovers and making plays when it counts.

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05-20-2010, 07:56 AM	#16
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,832 Blog Entries: 3	Re: 25th ranked defense...So what!!! Great points everyone. Remember that statistics don't tell the whole story. Was was obvious about our defense last year is that we had very little depth. That takes years to develop and injuries make it even more apparent. Pieces are being added, but I agree w Canton that we are still 1-2 cornerstone players away.

05-20-2010, 09:41 AM	#17
CantonLegend 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 2,685 Blog Entries: 2	Re: 25th ranked defense...So what!!! Originally Posted by papz The point was not who had the worst defense between the two. The point was you don't need an great defense to make it to or win the Superbowl. my point about that....and yes i agree to a point....is that just because we won it last year with a bad defense, doesnt mean we should try and get by with that again....we shouldve at least been trying to add to our holes this offseason....apparently they are trying but it doesnt seem like they are trying very hard If you win the turnover battle, the chances of you winning the game increase to about 90% I believe. idk about the percentage but of course......thats why we won so many games....because we took the ball from them and didnt give it up ourselves While luck plays a part in it, obviously that player's talent and ability to get into position to create these turnovers do too. So I don't see what you're trying to get at here. I didn't saying anything about relying on luck. turnovers have a lot to do with luck....thats where luck joined the conversation......you're right that talent and ability go hand in hand because the talent and preparation create a lot of luck but like i was saying before.....turnovers are more luck than skill.....so its safe to say that our defense was very lucky IMO.....we really didnt stop anybody this year except the pats.....we just thrived off of turnovers can we get by another year without stopping anyone? history(which really means nothing) has shown us that you really cant get by like that
	"deal with it or you can go play the saints and get trounced by 30 and you won't have to worry about it."-colin cowherd

05-20-2010, 01:34 PM	#18
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,052	Re: 25th ranked defense...So what!!! We are about the same team as last year with a few exceptions. The advantage to that is that collectively they are even better prepared than last year. The disadvantage is that we are basically the same team as last year with a lot more film on us and our tendencies. What I'm trying to say is that we haven't significantly upgraded our weaknesses. jmo Our defense was extremely aggressive and opportunistic which led to a lot of turnovers. We may not have the ball bounce our way this year like we did last year. But then again...... we might. I am a firm believer that you make your own luck. Fortune smiles on the well prepared.

05-20-2010, 03:42 PM	#19
strato Banned Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: "Little Ole Town in Tejas" Posts: 7,586	Re: 25th ranked defense...So what!!! We score so many points our D just needs to be a little above average..and BAM....superbowl..i think thats what your all trying to say.

05-20-2010, 05:46 PM	#20
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,744	Re: 25th ranked defense...So what!!! Canton - For me personally, I beg to differ on how our offseason has gone and how much we've actually accomplished. We shed a lot of money and deadweight by releasing Grant and made a solid signing in Alex Brown who should prove to be an upgrade. We re-signed one of our top free agents in Sharper and drafted some quality players on the defensive side of the ball. I really do believe we improved as opposed to some of the media and fans. As many pointed out, some of our injuries played a big part in our defensive statistics. I think it's overblown on how "average" or "bad" (some might say looking at numbers), our defense really was. At our supposed holes on defense, DT and OLB I persume, we still managed to win a ton of games and ended up with a ring. So... is it really that significant of a hole as some are portraying? I'm really not concerned the least bit of the Fujita loss... those numbers are easily replaceable with what we already have on the roster. I was watching the news yesterday and Zurich (local sports guy) mentioned that we do play a lot of 4-2-5 leaving a linebacker out quite a bit... just saying that position isn't that big of a concern. Now while I am concerned at DT, any type of consistent production from anyone there will prove to be an immediate improvement. All in all, I do believe we got better on the defensive side of the ball... just my opinion.
	Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege. All little common sense goes a long way.