How would you do it different?

FWtex · 10-01-2003, 10:27 PM

This is strictly about contracts and how they are structured. Don't want to hear about how this player or this coach sucks.

Benson is in a bit of a dilema. this is due partly because he is not a football person and partly because he listened to the fans. He has Haslett on contract for 4 more years at least. At the time there was lots of pressure on Benson to get haslett on long term contract ... and he did it because if he had not, people would say he did not care about winning. I remember the talk very clearly so don't say you were against the contracts at the time.

Saints are now in deep sh_t over Haz contract. Benson is going to eat Hasletts contract, he ate Ditka, and I don't know if he ate much of Mora's even though Mora quit. Obviously this can't continue or coaches would be lining up on airline hwy for the next retirement account giveaway instead of wanting to win games.

How would you structure the contract to protect yourself from this exact situation the saints are in yet still be able to attract top level coaches who know how to win?

FWtex · 10-01-2003, 10:58 PM

My goal is to acquire a top level coach who is suppose to know how to win games yet not hold your franchise hostage when they are not as good as they said they were.

Short term (2yrs) contracts usually don\'t work because the coaches and the agents want long term deals and can usually get them. With short term deals you may have a great coach on your hands who will not re-sign because he can write his own contract after he proved he knows how to coach.

Long term deals get us where the saints are today ... screwed!

Here is my thought. Write a contract that is for 8 yrs. The contract escalates every two years but there is also a club option after every two yrs. In order to make this attractive for coaches to want to do this, yrs 5,6 would pay an average of the top 10 coaches in the league and yrs 7,8 would pay top 3 money.

To remove the ability of a team to opt out of the contract due to coaching success and reaching the pinnacle of the contract, any attempt to release the coach after yr 4 would go to arbitration.

Something like this would give the coach a new level to reach for every two yrs. I think if the coach knows what is sitting out there for him if he succeeds the coach would be more inclined to reach for those pay levels. At the same time the club is protected by never having to eat more than 1 or 2 yrs of a contract.

BillyCarpenter1 · 10-01-2003, 11:05 PM

This goes back to a time old horned tradition of \"What the market will bear\" In other words to attract \"top coaches\" you must be willing to meet or exceed the offers from other teams. You can get as \"creative\" as you want to, but if there are better offers on the table, then those are probably the one the coaches will choose!!

FWtex -- Basically it\'s a bidding war and the highest bidder usually wins. Sometimes there are certain things a coach might want, such as control over this or that, but there are no \"incentive clauses\" or \"voidable years\" that are going to fly, if there are better offers on the table.

FWtex · 10-01-2003, 11:09 PM

Wow that was creative thinking there Billy. Excuse me while I hitch up the horses and take the wagon to the store.

BillyCarpenter1 · 10-01-2003, 11:11 PM

Yeah, but it\'s the truth.

frankeefrank · 10-01-2003, 11:15 PM

If I were Benson I would sell the team...
He\'s the only aspect that hasn\'t changed in recent years.
Or he could hire football people like you suggest, and then fire them again and agian for doing their job.
See Meuller

BigB · 10-02-2003, 11:28 AM

I think that the Bucs proved what it means to a team to find the right coach. The Bucs were one puzzle piece away from the ring....a coach. Sure they traded first round picks for Gruden, but in the end wasn\'t it worth it? What more could a first round quarterback or running back have done for the team than what Gruden did? The right coach is just as important, if not more so, than the right quarterback or the right running back.

TheOriginalSwampdog · 10-02-2003, 12:13 PM

First of all, it\'s 3 years that he\'ll owe Haznot if he fires him at the end of this year. Consequently, Benson will have to pay Haz as long as he\'s not under contract to another team. Say, Ditka had signed to coach somewhere else, than Ditka\'s new deal would have let Benson out of paying him. Same with Haz, if Im not mistaken. Hopefully, after the Ditka debacle. Benson\'s lawyers put some kind of buyout deal due to extensive losses. Say something like this, \"If employee produces a 4 win season before the contract is fullfilled, ownership can terminate said contract and only has to pay 50% of the contract as stated\". I doubt Benson is smart enough to put a clause like this in there, but it sure would be nice if he did.

lumm0x · 10-02-2003, 12:22 PM

I don\'t know if this would apply, but could we give him a lateral transfer. In the business world, you can re-assign an individual to a role of lesser responsibility as long as there is no penalty to hours or pay. Have him shovel garbage for his money.

BillyCarpenter1 · 10-02-2003, 12:23 PM

Say something like this, \"If employee produces a 4 win season before the contract is fullfilled, ownership can terminate said contract and only has to pay 50% of the contract as stated\". I doubt Benson is smart enough to put a clause like this in there, but it sure would be nice if he did.

Yeah right !! Do you think you are going to attract the Bill Parcels of the world with a clause like that? I guess you think that there will be no competition out there??

10-01-2003, 10:27 PM	#1
FWtex 100th Post Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 370	How would you do it different? This is strictly about contracts and how they are structured. Don't want to hear about how this player or this coach sucks. Benson is in a bit of a dilema. this is due partly because he is not a football person and partly because he listened to the fans. He has Haslett on contract for 4 more years at least. At the time there was lots of pressure on Benson to get haslett on long term contract ... and he did it because if he had not, people would say he did not care about winning. I remember the talk very clearly so don't say you were against the contracts at the time. Saints are now in deep sh_t over Haz contract. Benson is going to eat Hasletts contract, he ate Ditka, and I don't know if he ate much of Mora's even though Mora quit. Obviously this can't continue or coaches would be lining up on airline hwy for the next retirement account giveaway instead of wanting to win games. How would you structure the contract to protect yourself from this exact situation the saints are in yet still be able to attract top level coaches who know how to win?
FWtex 100th Post Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 370

10-01-2003, 10:58 PM	#2
FWtex 100th Post Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 370	How would you do it different? My goal is to acquire a top level coach who is suppose to know how to win games yet not hold your franchise hostage when they are not as good as they said they were. Short term (2yrs) contracts usually don\'t work because the coaches and the agents want long term deals and can usually get them. With short term deals you may have a great coach on your hands who will not re-sign because he can write his own contract after he proved he knows how to coach. Long term deals get us where the saints are today ... screwed! Here is my thought. Write a contract that is for 8 yrs. The contract escalates every two years but there is also a club option after every two yrs. In order to make this attractive for coaches to want to do this, yrs 5,6 would pay an average of the top 10 coaches in the league and yrs 7,8 would pay top 3 money. To remove the ability of a team to opt out of the contract due to coaching success and reaching the pinnacle of the contract, any attempt to release the coach after yr 4 would go to arbitration. Something like this would give the coach a new level to reach for every two yrs. I think if the coach knows what is sitting out there for him if he succeeds the coach would be more inclined to reach for those pay levels. At the same time the club is protected by never having to eat more than 1 or 2 yrs of a contract.
FWtex 100th Post Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 370

10-01-2003, 11:05 PM	#3
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	How would you do it different? This goes back to a time old horned tradition of \"What the market will bear\" In other words to attract \"top coaches\" you must be willing to meet or exceed the offers from other teams. You can get as \"creative\" as you want to, but if there are better offers on the table, then those are probably the one the coaches will choose!! FWtex -- Basically it\'s a bidding war and the highest bidder usually wins. Sometimes there are certain things a coach might want, such as control over this or that, but there are no \"incentive clauses\" or \"voidable years\" that are going to fly, if there are better offers on the table.
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

10-01-2003, 11:09 PM	#4
FWtex 100th Post Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 370	How would you do it different? Wow that was creative thinking there Billy. Excuse me while I hitch up the horses and take the wagon to the store.
FWtex 100th Post Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 370

10-01-2003, 11:11 PM	#5
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	How would you do it different? Yeah, but it\'s the truth.
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

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10-01-2003, 11:15 PM	#6
frankeefrank 500th Post Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 775	How would you do it different? If I were Benson I would sell the team... He\'s the only aspect that hasn\'t changed in recent years. Or he could hire football people like you suggest, and then fire them again and agian for doing their job. See Meuller
frankeefrank 500th Post Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 775

10-02-2003, 11:28 AM	#7
BigB Rookie Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Lake Charles Posts: 16	How would you do it different? I think that the Bucs proved what it means to a team to find the right coach. The Bucs were one puzzle piece away from the ring....a coach. Sure they traded first round picks for Gruden, but in the end wasn\'t it worth it? What more could a first round quarterback or running back have done for the team than what Gruden did? The right coach is just as important, if not more so, than the right quarterback or the right running back.

10-02-2003, 12:13 PM	#8
TheOriginalSwampdog 100th Post Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 215	How would you do it different? First of all, it\'s 3 years that he\'ll owe Haznot if he fires him at the end of this year. Consequently, Benson will have to pay Haz as long as he\'s not under contract to another team. Say, Ditka had signed to coach somewhere else, than Ditka\'s new deal would have let Benson out of paying him. Same with Haz, if Im not mistaken. Hopefully, after the Ditka debacle. Benson\'s lawyers put some kind of buyout deal due to extensive losses. Say something like this, \"If employee produces a 4 win season before the contract is fullfilled, ownership can terminate said contract and only has to pay 50% of the contract as stated\". I doubt Benson is smart enough to put a clause like this in there, but it sure would be nice if he did.
	http://sportsmed.starwave.com/media/...manning_vi.jpg

10-02-2003, 12:22 PM	#9
lumm0x Resident antediluvian Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,026	How would you do it different? I don\'t know if this would apply, but could we give him a lateral transfer. In the business world, you can re-assign an individual to a role of lesser responsibility as long as there is no penalty to hours or pay. Have him shovel garbage for his money.

10-02-2003, 12:23 PM	#10
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	How would you do it different? Say something like this, \"If employee produces a 4 win season before the contract is fullfilled, ownership can terminate said contract and only has to pay 50% of the contract as stated\". I doubt Benson is smart enough to put a clause like this in there, but it sure would be nice if he did. Yeah right !! Do you think you are going to attract the Bill Parcels of the world with a clause like that? I guess you think that there will be no competition out there??
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209